Police Kill Man Attempting to "Open Carry" ..wait for it...

[laughing dog]

[

... then you should stop looking at people sideways. Stupid thug just had it coming.

He probably wasn't a thug. Just stupid.

I can believe you are an expert on stupid.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

... then you should stop looking at people sideways. Stupid thug just had it coming.

Dont edit my quote, thanks.

I'll do what I like. You're welcome.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Yes. The solution to all this racism is if black people just avoid doing dangerous, scary things. For instance: picking up an almost-gun at a location that sells guns.

The obvious intention, what with having guns on the shelves and all, is that people pick them up and walk around with them. But this idiot should have realized the intention is that white people do that. He should have realized that if a black man does it it's very threatening. If he'd just exercised a little common sense he'd still be alive.

The intent is that people pick them up and examine them, not walk around with them.

Is it too much to ask that I not be shot and killed by police officers on my way to the cash register?

 

[RavenSky]

~~ A Moderator Warning

 

[Unbeatable]

Hey, it occurs to me that now we have simultaneous discussions where people are talking about what women should do to avoid getting raped, and what black men should do to avoid getting shot by the police. Which leads me to wonder, if I'm walking down the street at night and a white woman is ahead of me, should she cross the street to avoid getting raped, or should I cross the street to avoid being perceived as a potential rapist? We can't both cross, or we'd just end up on the same side again.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Hey, it occurs to me that now we have simultaneous discussions where people are talking about what women should do to avoid getting raped, and what black men should do to avoid getting shot by the police. Which leads me to wonder, if I'm walking down the street at night and a white woman is ahead of me, should she cross the street to avoid getting raped, or should I cross the street to avoid being perceived as a potential rapist? We can't both cross, or we'd just end up on the same side again.

She should slow down a bit, letting you almost overtake her, and then spin around and open fire at point blank range, center of mass. Thus lending credibility to her claim that you were closing in on her with the intent to do bodily harm. For a little extra credibility she can claim that you were leering at her aggressively or that you had previously asked for her phone number or address.

You get a presumption of guilt for being black, she gets a presumption of innocence for being white, plus the gun lobby will fall all over itself to threaten and intimidate anyone who claims her use of a gun to murder you was anything other than the textbook application of the Second Amendment.

 

[Unbeatable]

Yet another case of stupid people doing stupid things...on both sides. If the feeling in the black community is; its open season on blacks, they why the hell do something this dangerous. If the though is I might get shot just for looking sideways, why brandish a weapon where one shouldnt be brandished.

Yes. The solution to all this racism is if black people just avoid doing dangerous, scary things. For instance: picking up an almost-gun at a location that sells guns.

On the other hand, if it doesn't solve all racism in one fell swoop, it's not worth doing at all. Lowering your personal risk of getting SWATted isn't good enough. Better to die if that's what it takes to expose the killers' racism.

The obvious intention, what with having guns on the shelves and all, is that people pick them up and walk around with them.

That's a good point, come to think of it. In some stores, there actually are products that aren't out on the shelves for customers to pick up. The products are kept in a locked cage by the customer service desk. On the shelf is a card with a barcode and a picture of the product, so you don't walk around the store with the product; you take the card up to the register and a cashier gets the product out of the cage. Of course, this is something they seem to do to keep people from stealing small, concealable, expensive electronics, but still, they could do that sort of thing with guns and almost-guns, if they didn't want people carrying them around.

But this idiot should have realized the intention is that white people do that. He should have realized that if a black man does it it's very threatening. If he'd just exercised a little common sense he'd still be alive.

I'd have pushed it around in a shopping cart, personally. Let's see a story where paranoid white people confuse that for "brandishing".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The intent is that people pick them up and examine them, not walk around with them.

If he had just exercised a little common sense and not gone pointing at people and then not dropping it when told to he would still be alive.

This has nothing to do with white vs black.

So do you think that the overwhelmingly white "right to carry" people should be shot dead when their carry their genuine rifles into big box stores, restaurants and airports? Shot down before they are even given a chance to comply with police orders - because that is exactly what it sounds like happened here, even by the description from scooter woman.

There's a big difference between carrying a rifle on one's back like the open-carry idiots sometimes do and going around pointing a gun at people. If the gun were real the latter would be brandishing a firearm--a crime that in California (simply the first state that came up) can bring a year in jail.

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I keep seeing these excuses for why crawford deserved to be shot and I keep wondering why this guy was not...

View attachment 840



Look how interesting he is, pointing his actual loaded gun AT FEDERAL AGENTS!

If he had been it would have been a justified shoot. No cop saw him, though.

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The intent is that people pick them up and examine them, not walk around with them.

If he had just exercised a little common sense and not gone pointing at people and then not dropping it when told to he would still be alive.

This has nothing to do with white vs black.

Oops, I guess he should have examined it, decided to make his purchase, then teleported it out of the store and to his home like you're supposed to do.

If he bought it it would have been in a box.

If you're carrying a weapon sans box the barrel should always be pointing up or down.

 

[OLDMAN]

Even though I am white, I really do my best to avoid cops. I know the personality types that want to be and are picked to be cops. They cannot always be reasoned with or presumed to be sensible. That being said, it is not sensible to carry around what looks like a dangerous firearm in a society where shooting events take place way to often.

 

[Arctish]

Even though I am white, I really do my best to avoid cops. I know the personality types that want to be and are picked to be cops. They cannot always be reasoned with or presumed to be sensible. That being said, it is not sensible to carry around what looks like a dangerous firearm in a society where shooting events take place way to often.

Crawford was a WalMart customer carrying store merchandise from the Sporting Goods section. He was examining and testing it as he walked and talked on his cell phone. I realize those pellet guns are made to look a lot like actual firearms, but seriously, the guy wasn't doing anything remotely illegal no matter how scary he looked to the couple falking him. He didn't even look scary to the other customers walking by as he allegedly "brandished" the it.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I will ask again.

Where are the reports of the stampede? Surely if Crawford was wildly pointing this gun at passersby, the multitude of shoppers went running toward the exits.

 

[marc]

I wonder how he "brandished" the air gun. It is designed like a rifle, which is usually held with two hands, but he was also holding his cell phone.

Was he holding it by the grip at the trigger, which would usually result in the air gun pointing down, unless he was pointing at something with it?

Or was he holding it near the middle? That would have the item pointing at people more likely, but also with his hand not near the trigger so it should be less threatening.

Too bad we are unlikely to see any video of what actually happened.

 

[RavenSky]

So do you think that the overwhelmingly white "right to carry" people should be shot dead when their carry their genuine rifles into big box stores, restaurants and airports? Shot down before they are even given a chance to comply with police orders - because that is exactly what it sounds like happened here, even by the description from scooter woman.

There's a big difference between carrying a rifle on one's back like the open-carry idiots sometimes do and going around pointing a gun at people. If the gun were real the latter would be brandishing a firearm--a crime that in California (simply the first state that came up) can bring a year in jail.

you continue to claim he "pointed at" and was "brandishing" this non-gun. Where is your supporting evidence? Got video? Even scooter woman contradicts her husband on that point... The husband who also claimed Crawford was "loading the gun" which we know is a fabrication because this type of non-gun is not "loaded" the way an actual gun is.

 

[OLDMAN]

Even though I am white, I really do my best to avoid cops. I know the personality types that want to be and are picked to be cops. They cannot always be reasoned with or presumed to be sensible. That being said, it is not sensible to carry around what looks like a dangerous firearm in a society where shooting events take place way to often.

Crawford was a WalMart customer carrying store merchandise from the Sporting Goods section. He was examining and testing it as he walked and talked on his cell phone. I realize those pellet guns are made to look a lot like actual firearms, but seriously, the guy wasn't doing anything remotely illegal no matter how scary he looked to the couple falking him. He didn't even look scary to the other customers walking by as he allegedly "brandished" the it.

He was scary enough to get shot by the cops. Until we know more, I have to assume the call on the radio was not, "Attention all cars: Black man shopping at Walmart, all units respond".

 

[Toni]

There's a big difference between carrying a rifle on one's back like the open-carry idiots sometimes do and going around pointing a gun at people. If the gun were real the latter would be brandishing a firearm--a crime that in California (simply the first state that came up) can bring a year in jail.

you continue to claim he "pointed at" and was "brandishing" this non-gun. Where is your supporting evidence? Got video? Even scooter woman contradicts her husband on that point... The husband who also claimed Crawford was "loading the gun" which we know is a fabrication because this type of non-gun is not "loaded" the way an actual gun is.

Excellent point about two major issues with the witnesses in this case:

1. Eye witness testimony is often wildly inaccurate.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr06/eyewitness.aspx

Of course, in this case, the witnesses called as what they saw as a threatening scenario was taking place, although their statements to media do rely upon recollection.

Which brings me to:

2. Exactly what was so threatening about Crawford? Was he really behaving in such a threatening manner? Why were scooter woman and her husband the only ones who perceived a threat? Was it the fact that there was someone--anyone--with a bb gun/toy? Was it because it was a male? A young male? A black male?

Was their alarm at seeing a young black man with a bb gun in a store heightened by his color? Did their alarm fill in blanks where there was nothing to fill in?

 

[Toni]

Sagging kills. It also looks really retarded.

Guns kill. Especially in the hands of overzealous cowardly wannabes. I can see why you would identify, though.

Also, air soft toys ARE toys, considering the only place you usually play with them is outdoors in the woods, in wargames.

This was not an airsoft rifle.

It wasn't an assault rifle either. Nor was it useful for hunting small game, holding up liquor stores or anything else except perhaps target practice.

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... then you should stop looking at people sideways. Stupid thug just had it coming.

He probably wasn't a thug. Just stupid.

Well of course he was stupid. He was black. That's enough right there, isn't it Derec? Although I am shocked beyond belief that you agree he probably wasn't a thug. But you are right: how dare a black man pick up a bb gun in a store which sells them. In front of white people.

 

[Toni]

A 22 year old father died as a result. That's known as a real life consequence. 3 children will grow up without their father because of the conclusions of strangers.

Interesting fact that. He managed to knock up his baby mama three times by the age of 22 without figuring out that he needed to wrap it up next time. Not exactly genius material. So I find it less surprising that he likewise didn't figure out waving a realistic looking not-a-toy gun around would be threatening and that he probably should drop it when ordered to do so by the police.

What does that have to do with anything? What qualifies you to make decisions about Crawford's reproductive choices?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Derec, Loren, and all who sail in them

I will ask again.

Where are the reports of the stampede? Surely if Crawford was wildly pointing this gun at passersby, the multitude of shoppers went running toward the exits.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I don't really fault the people who called the police. If he had been in the store with a real gun I'd appreciate someone calling the police. I do fault the police officer for not being sure that it was a real gun before using lethal force. Unless it can be shown that he turned and pointed the BB gun directly at the police officer as if to fire upon him, due diligence in protecting the innocent was not taken in this case. All the other details are simply distractions.

 

[ZiprHead]

The point is the cop isn't going to immediately know it's not a real gun.

Doesn't matter if it was a real gun or not. Ohio is an open carry state. Crawford had the legal right to carry a long gun firearm. The cops should have investigated the situation before immediately using deadly force.