#BlackinAmerica

[Jimmy Higgins]

Asking for directions?

That is rather odd. But maybe it’s a long, winding bus ride, or maybe he’s directionally challenged.

Nah. Kids these days...

{KIDS THESE DAYS FALLACY ERROR}
{RECOMPUTE}
{FAIL}
{END POST}

 

[bilby]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/starbucks-arrests-who-gets-to-decide-whether-youre-a-patron-or-a-trespasser/2018/04/17/f0aa99de-41ac-11e8-ad8f-27a8c409298b_story.html?utm_term=.629b73da1658

Nowhere else in Philadelphia are African Americans more disproportionately stopped by police than in the Center City neighborhood surrounding the Starbucks, two blocks from ritzy Rittenhouse Square, where rents in luxury apartments run as high as $10,000 a month.

While African Americans make up 3 percent of the area’s residents, they account for 67 percent of pedestrian police stops, according to a 2017 analysis by the American Civil Liberties Union, which has monitored racial disparity in Philadelphia policing for eight years. Most of those stopped were never charged.


Similar racial disparities in citations and arrests for commercial trespassing occur across the country, according to lawyers and civic leaders.

In Grand Rapids, Mich., African Americans make up 21 percent of the population but accounted for 59 percent of commercial trespassing arrests at businesses such as gas stations and bars, according to the ACLU, which filed a federal lawsuit against the city in 2013.

In Washington, businesses in Georgetown operated a private messaging app that allowed retailers to alert police officers about people they considered suspicious. The vast majority of suspicions in the wealthy, predominantly white community were about black people, some of whom were described in offensive language. The service was suspended in 2015 after concerns arose about racial profiling.

“It raises all kinds of questions. How long can you be on a property? Can you not browse at these stores now? Who gets to determine whether you’re acting as a patron or as a trespasser?” said Jason D. Williamson, senior staff attorney with the ACLU’s Criminal Law Reform Project, referring to the disproportionate targeting of African Americans. “It goes to the judgments that are made not only by the police but by store owners who ratchet up the level of suspicion depending on what you look like.”

I'm not sure if you will be able to read the entire Washington Post article if you're not a subscriber or have used up your free articles for the month.

Almost 50 years ago, I lived in Trenton, NJ, right across the state line from Philly. Philly has always been a city with a lot of hate, despite its nickname of "The City of Brotherly Love." When I lived near Philly, it was made up of mostly white descendants of European immigrants. I remember that the Italians hated the Irish, who hated the Germans, who hated the Polish etc. I guess some things never change and now it appears as if black folks in some parts of Philly are the ones being distrusted and hated. When I try to explain to my friends in the south that the north is every bit as racist, if not more so, the first place that usually comes t0 my mind in Philly.

It's not really a nickname, it's a translation. 'Philadelphia' is Greek for 'Love of one's brother'. Mind you, the cops ran most of the Greeks out of town a while back...

 

[repoman]

 

[Arctish]

View attachment 15439

Sounds like Alt Quite has never worked in the restaurant business, or retail, or anything to do with customer service.

 

[thebeave]

Looks like Starbucks is making amends by giving a free cup of coffee to all black people. Good on them!:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FvwMsb9CRg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Derec]

Looks like Starbucks is making amends by giving a free cup of coffee to all black people. Good on them!:

Giving free coffee based on race is prima facie racist behavior. Asking non-customer loiterers to leave a busy downtown location is not.

And people on here keep insisting there is no such thing as black privilege. I can't go into Starbucks and demand free product just because somebody white got themselves arrested at a Starbucks somewhere.

 

[Derec]

Chris Evans ������
‏
White people: watch the Starbucks arrest video. See the white folks arguing with the police and asking why two innocent black men were being arrested? THIS is how you use your privilege. Because if one of us had said something we’d get arrested too.

What "white privilege"? People of all races get arrested for refusing to leave retail establishments. But only black people can blow such arrest up into a national story, sue for millions and the rest of black people use the incident to get free stuff. That's black privilege.

 

[Emily Lake]

Seriously, I'm on the fence on this.

Systemic and institutional racial bias is a serious problem, and I'm all for addressing it. I'm just not sold on this incidence being evidence of systemic bias on the part of Starbucks as a company. I could be wrong, but it seems more like a case of bias on the part of a handful of employees in one store... maybe a few stores. But it doesn't seem as if it's a behavior endemic to Starbucks as a whole. Which makes this whole 'all our stores close and get diversity training and all black people get a free cup of coffee' seem like a bit of an overreaction.

Am I missing more of the history here that would make Starbucks' response seem more appropriate?

 

[repoman]

It is sort of a Judo move making of lack of privilege become a privilege.

 

[Derec]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/starbucks-arrests-who-gets-to-decide-whether-youre-a-patron-or-a-trespasser/2018/04/17/f0aa99de-41ac-11e8-ad8f-27a8c409298b_story.html?utm_term=.629b73da1658

Nowhere else in Philadelphia are African Americans more disproportionately stopped by police than in the Center City neighborhood surrounding the Starbucks, two blocks from ritzy Rittenhouse Square, where rents in luxury apartments run as high as $10,000 a month.

While African Americans make up 3 percent of the area’s residents, they account for 67 percent of pedestrian police stops, according to a 2017 analysis by the American Civil Liberties Union, which has monitored racial disparity in Philadelphia policing for eight years. Most of those stopped were never charged.

Can you spot the fallacy? They are comparing pedestrian stops with residents, as if residents are the only ones walking around Rittenhouse Square. Instead, they should be comparing pedestrian stops with the set of all pedestrians at Rittenhouse Square.

 

[Emily Lake]

What "white privilege"?

Disclaimer - I really dislike the term privilege, it tends to instigate defensive reactions rather than foster discussion.

In this case, the bias at play is very likely based on race. Other loiterers had been at the same store for some time, without purchase, and without being asked to leave. The only people asked to leave were the black men who were reportedly well dressed professionals, and who reportedly told the staff that they intended to order as soon as the rest of their party arrived - so they weren't loitering, they weren't trespassing, and there isn't a good reason for them being asked to leave... let alone having called the cops on them prior to insisting that they depart.

If it had been standard behavior for that Starbucks location to ask people to purchase or leave, regardless of race or appearance, then it wouldn't be an issue. But by all reports from other patrons, that wasn't the case. This was a very disparate approach, and to all appearances seems based solely on the race of the people involved. Of course, there's the possibility that it is not racial bias... but based on the limited information available, I think that alternative explanations are considerably less plausible.

People of all races get arrested for refusing to leave retail establishments. But only black people can blow such arrest up into a national story, sue for millions and the rest of black people use the incident to get free stuff. That's black privilege.

It doesn't appear that "black people" have turned this into a national story - the media did that, with the assistance of other patrons at the establishment who found the situation to be unacceptable and irrational... as well as being (in their eyes) demonstrably biased against black people. Additionally, it doesn't appear that "black people" have sued; to my knowledge nobody has sued Starbucks over this incident. And the decision to provide free coffee to black people appears to be a decision made by Starbucks Corporate, without any coercion involved. It may be an overreaction, but it's most definitely not a case of black privilege.

 

[repoman]

 

[Derec]

In this case, the bias at play is very likely based on race.

I don't know if there was bias based on race or not. But this particular incident would certainly not get blown out of proportion if they were white.

Other loiterers had been at the same store for some time, without purchase, and without being asked to leave.

Maybe they were talking loudly and thus made management aware of themselves.

The only people asked to leave were the black men who were reportedly well dressed professionals,

Reported by whom?

They were wearing sweat pants. I know they were claiming to be meeting the other guy for some real estate deal, but real estate professional attire this is not.

and who reportedly told the staff that they intended to order as soon as the rest of their party arrived - so they weren't loitering, they weren't trespassing, and there isn't a good reason for them being asked to leave... let alone having called the cops on them prior to insisting that they depart.

I don't really know what transpired before the video started. All I know is that the "real estate deal" claim is sketch.
Of course, the manager could be racist and only asked them to leave because they were black.
Even if that were true, does that justify this overreaction? Closing all stores for a day? Likely large settlement with the two? Giving black people free coffee? All that turns this into another demonstration of black privilege.

Of course, there's the possibility that it is not racial bias... but based on the limited information available, I think that alternative explanations are considerably less plausible.

My point is that even if it was racial bias, this level of overreaction is not justified.

It doesn't appear that "black people" have turned this into a national story - the media did that, with the assistance of other patrons at the establishment who found the situation to be unacceptable and irrational... as well as being (in their eyes) demonstrably biased against black people.

But the media made this into a story because of black privilege. If somebody wearing sweatpants looking like George Costanza and pretending he was an architect real estate professional was asked to leave, and upon refusing was arrested this would not have been a local Phily story, much less a national one.

Additionally, it doesn't appear that "black people" have sued; to my knowledge nobody has sued Starbucks over this incident.

Not yet. But that often happens in these situations. Remember the two women who were loud during wine tasting or some such and were kicked out? Even though their actual damages were the cost of wine tasting tickets at most, they got millions in the end. Guess their race.
Also, remember that chick who pointed a gun at police while they were serving a warrant and when they shot her her family sued and got 37 million? Guess her race.

And the decision to provide free coffee to black people appears to be a decision made by Starbucks Corporate, without any coercion involved. It may be an overreaction, but it's most definitely not a case of black privilege.

It most certainly is black privilege. Black people get a benefit because of their race. I can't get free coffee, solely because of my skin color, and that's racial discrimination.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...7a8c409298b_story.html?utm_term=.629b73da1658

Nowhere else in Philadelphia are African Americans more disproportionately stopped by police than in the Center City neighborhood surrounding the Starbucks, two blocks from ritzy Rittenhouse Square, where rents in luxury apartments run as high as $10,000 a month.

While African Americans make up 3 percent of the area’s residents, they account for 67 percent of pedestrian police stops, according to a 2017 analysis by the American Civil Liberties Union, which has monitored racial disparity in Philadelphia policing for eight years. Most of those stopped were never charged.


Similar racial disparities in citations and arrests for commercial trespassing occur across the country, according to lawyers and civic leaders.

In Grand Rapids, Mich., African Americans make up 21 percent of the population but accounted for 59 percent of commercial trespassing arrests at businesses such as gas stations and bars, according to the ACLU, which filed a federal lawsuit against the city in 2013.

In Washington, businesses in Georgetown operated a private messaging app that allowed retailers to alert police officers about people they considered suspicious. The vast majority of suspicions in the wealthy, predominantly white community were about black people, some of whom were described in offensive language. The service was suspended in 2015 after concerns arose about racial profiling.

“It raises all kinds of questions. How long can you be on a property? Can you not browse at these stores now? Who gets to determine whether you’re acting as a patron or as a trespasser?” said Jason D. Williamson, senior staff attorney with the ACLU’s Criminal Law Reform Project, referring to the disproportionate targeting of African Americans. “It goes to the judgments that are made not only by the police but by store owners who ratchet up the level of suspicion depending on what you look like.”

I'm not sure if you will be able to read the entire Washington Post article if you're not a subscriber or have used up your free articles for the month.

Almost 50 years ago, I lived in Trenton, NJ, right across the state line from Philly. Philly has always been a city with a lot of hate, despite its nickname of "The City of Brotherly Love." When I lived near Philly, it was made up of mostly white descendants of European immigrants. I remember that the Italians hated the Irish, who hated the Germans, who hated the Polish etc. I guess some things never change and now it appears as if black folks in some parts of Philly are the ones being distrusted and hated. When I try to explain to my friends in the south that the north is every bit as racist, if not more so, the first place that usually comes t0 my mind in Philly.

It's not really a nickname, it's a translation. 'Philadelphia' is Greek for 'Love of one's brother'. Mind you, the cops ran most of the Greeks out of town a while back...

Well, there is also the Latin translation of "Shitty sports fans", so it goes both ways.

- - - Updated - - -

They called 911?!

- - - Updated - - -

People of all races get arrested for refusing to leave retail establishments. But only black people can blow such arrest up into a national story, sue for millions and the rest of black people use the incident to get free stuff. That's black privilege.

It doesn't appear that "black people" have turned this into a national story - the media did that, with the assistance of other patrons at the establishment who found the situation to be unacceptable and irrational... as well as being (in their eyes) demonstrably biased against black people. Additionally, it doesn't appear that "black people" have sued; to my knowledge nobody has sued Starbucks over this incident. And the decision to provide free coffee to black people appears to be a decision made by Starbucks Corporate, without any coercion involved. It may be an overreaction, but it's most definitely not a case of black privilege.

A free cup of coffee, "black privilege". Poor Derec.

 

[Mumbles]

Looks like Starbucks is making amends by giving a free cup of coffee to all black people. Good on them!:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FvwMsb9CRg[/YOUTUBE]

Saw the channel name "Hotep Jesus" and moved on.

For those not in the know, "Hotep" was a form of greeting, but is at this point an insulting way to refer to overly-woke, anti-feminist black nationalists. They generally irritate just about everyone except, oddly, the white nationalists and nazi fetishists of the "Alt-Right", mostly because they largely agree with the whole "separation of the races" nonsense. Most likely the guy went from one Starbucks to the next until he found one where they'd give him a free coffee.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't know if there was bias based on race or not. But this particular incident would certainly not get blown out of proportion if they were white.

Is that your opinion or do you have evidence to support that claim?

It most certainly is black privilege. Black people get a benefit because of their race. I can't get free coffee, solely because of my skin color, and that's racial discrimination.

Starbucks is not giving free coffee to black people - that is an internet hoax (https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/trolls-spread-hateful-fake-starbucks-coupon-n867501). But even if that were true, that would not be an example of black privilege because it is not derived from culture or institutions but as a one-off act of voluntary atonement.

 

[laughing dog]

Looks like Starbucks is making amends by giving a free cup of coffee to all black people. Good on them!:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FvwMsb9CRg[/YOUTUBE]

Saw the channel name "Hotep Jesus" and moved on.

For those not in the know, "Hotep" was a form of greeting, but is at this point an insulting way to refer to overly-woke, anti-feminist black nationalists. They generally irritate just about everyone except, oddly, the white nationalists and nazi fetishists of the "Alt-Right", mostly because they largely agree with the whole "separation of the races" nonsense. Most likely the guy went from one Starbucks to the next until he found one where they'd give him a free coffee.

That is interesting because there was a small movie that was very good called  Bubba Hotep which had nothing to do with politics of any type.

 

[RavenSky]

Asking non-customer loiterers to leave a busy downtown location is not.

Shows that you are mouthing off with your race-based biased without knowing a damned thing about what actually happened

Two CUSTOMERS, professional men - not "loiterers" - were waiting for the third man to show up before ordering. There is absolutely nothing normal about having CUSTOMERS arrested because they were waiting for a friend to arrive.

 

[RavenSky]

Looks like Starbucks is making amends by giving a free cup of coffee to all black people. Good on them!:

Giving free coffee based on race is prima facie racist behavior... And people on here keep insisting there is no such thing as black privilege. I can't go into Starbucks and demand free product just because somebody white got themselves arrested at a Starbucks somewhere.

Too bad your racism sucked you into believing a #FakeNews story

http://www.cleveland19.com/story/37...r-people-of-african-american-heritage-is-fake

 

[Mumbles]

Looks like Starbucks is making amends by giving a free cup of coffee to all black people. Good on them!:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FvwMsb9CRg[/YOUTUBE]

Saw the channel name "Hotep Jesus" and moved on.

For those not in the know, "Hotep" was a form of greeting, but is at this point an insulting way to refer to overly-woke, anti-feminist black nationalists. They generally irritate just about everyone except, oddly, the white nationalists and nazi fetishists of the "Alt-Right", mostly because they largely agree with the whole "separation of the races" nonsense. Most likely the guy went from one Starbucks to the next until he found one where they'd give him a free coffee.

That is interesting because there was a small movie that was very good called  Bubba Hotep which had nothing to do with politics of any type.

I've seen it - an ex-coworker was a major fan of it, and I was...entertained by it. This was before the word became an insult, though. At this point, one may as well name themselves "White Power Buddha" or somesuch.

(And yes Arrested Development fans, I did consider "Bill", but I went with something that I thought fit better)