What liberals (still) get wrong about Trump's support

[untermensche]

So we agree.

We both despise capitalism as it exists.

The difference between us is I despise dictatorship as a power structure in human affairs and you have no problem with it.

And when you allow dictatorships you end up with huge monstrosities we call corporations.

 

[Harry Bosch]

So we agree.

We both despise capitalism as it exists.

The difference between us is I despise dictatorship as a power structure in human affairs and you have no problem with it.

And when you allow dictatorships you end up with huge monstrosities we call corporations.

When you hire a handyman to do side work on your house: do you direct him on what you want done? Or do you allow him to do what he thinks is necessary? Second question: when you want to buy a TV. Do you buy what you want? Or do you allow the store to sell you the TV that they want to sell?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So we agree.

We agree that you fell into your own trap. You now are vulnerable to the phrase "communism as it exists" and "socialism as it exists".

The difference between us is I despise dictatorship as a power structure in human affairs and you have no problem with it.

Considering your desire to become a dictator, as revealed in several threads, you don't despise dictatorship. You despise when you see anyone other than yourself as dictator.

And when you allow dictatorships you end up with huge monstrosities we call corporations.

Or communist as it really exists Soviet Union, or socialist as it really exists Venezuela.

 

[untermensche]

So we agree.

We both despise capitalism as it exists.

The difference between us is I despise dictatorship as a power structure in human affairs and you have no problem with it.

And when you allow dictatorships you end up with huge monstrosities we call corporations.

When you hire a handyman to do side work on your house: do you direct him on what you want done? Or do you allow him to do what he thinks is necessary? Second question: when you want to buy a TV. Do you buy what you want? Or do you allow the store to sell you the TV that they want to sell?

The handyman only does what he wants to do. You can't order him to bring you coffee. He shows up when he wants to and stays as long as he wants to.

You are not his dictator.

In a company however the dictator says when people will come and go and what they will do.

In a dictatorship you can be told to come in Saturday or lose your job and there is nothing you can do.

As far as buying some item the price is not determined by the buyer.

 

[untermensche]

We agree that you fell into your own trap. You now are vulnerable to the phrase "communism as it exists" and "socialism as it exists".

So fucking what?

Considering your desire to become a dictator, as revealed in several threads, you don't despise dictatorship. You despise when you see anyone other than yourself as dictator.

Total bullshit. Which is why you have no example.

And when you allow dictatorships you end up with huge monstrosities we call corporations.

Or communist as it really exists Soviet Union, or socialist as it really exists Venezuela.

The Soviet Union was a dictatorship and Venezuela is capitalist.

You are lost.

 

[Harry Bosch]

So we agree.

We both despise capitalism as it exists.

The difference between us is I despise dictatorship as a power structure in human affairs and you have no problem with it.

And when you allow dictatorships you end up with huge monstrosities we call corporations.

When you hire a handyman to do side work on your house: do you direct him on what you want done? Or do you allow him to do what he thinks is necessary? Second question: when you want to buy a TV. Do you buy what you want? Or do you allow the store to sell you the TV that they want to sell?

The handyman only does what he wants to do. You can't order him to bring you coffee. He shows up when he wants to and stays as long as he wants to.

You are not his dictator.

In a company however the dictator says when people will come and go and what they will do.

In a dictatorship you can be told to come in Saturday or lose your job and there is nothing you can do.

As far as buying some item the price is not determined by the buyer.

I hired a handyman to fix our fence and our sprinkler system. He also wanted to re-pave our driveway. Was I a dictator to deny him this request?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The Soviet Union was a dictatorship and Venezuela is capitalist.

The dictatorship of the Soviet Union was communism as it exists. Venezuela wasn't capitalist, it's failure is socialism as it exists.

 

[untermensche]

The handyman only does what he wants to do. You can't order him to bring you coffee. He shows up when he wants to and stays as long as he wants to.

You are not his dictator.

In a company however the dictator says when people will come and go and what they will do.

In a dictatorship you can be told to come in Saturday or lose your job and there is nothing you can do.

As far as buying some item the price is not determined by the buyer.

I hired a handyman to fix our fence and our sprinkler system. He also wanted to re-pave our driveway. Was I a dictator to deny him this request?

The handyman has total control. He can say yes or no to any request.

You are not a dictator over him.

- - - Updated - - -

The Soviet Union was a dictatorship and Venezuela is capitalist.

The dictatorship of the Soviet Union was communism as it exists. Venezuela wasn't capitalist, it's failure is socialism as it exists.

The Soviet Union was dictatorship as it exists.

Venezuela is capitalism when you try to make it fair.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The handyman has total control. He can say yes or no to any request.

You are not a dictator over him.

If I tell him what I want, and he refuses, I fire him and find another handyperson. If I have a worker who'd prefer to watch spongebob than work, I'll fire him also. Where's the difference?

 

[steve_bank]

Liberals always gained support by making offers of specific agendas to group, IOW panderings. Over hoe many campaigns have white candidates pandered to blacks praising them the sky. Blacks are now say ok, but where;s the beef?


Trump is open about it, publically pandering without shame.

 

[untermensche]

The handyman has total control. He can say yes or no to any request.

You are not a dictator over him.

If I tell him what I want, and he refuses, I fire him and find another handyperson. If I have a worker who'd prefer to watch spongebob than work, I'll fire him also. Where's the difference?

You don't tell him anything. You ask nicely.

And you can't fire somebody who doesn't work for you.

All you can do is decline or accept their offer.

And if you hire somebody and you don't like how they are doing things you can ask them to change but you can't order them to change.

And you are free to end their service by paying them for what they have done.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Or communist as it really exists Soviet Union, or socialist as it really exists Venezuela.

The Soviet Union was a dictatorship and Venezuela is capitalist.

You are lost.

The devastation to Venezuela's economy was from the nationalization--socialism.

 

[untermensche]

Or communist as it really exists Soviet Union, or socialist as it really exists Venezuela.

The Soviet Union was a dictatorship and Venezuela is capitalist.

You are lost.

The devastation to Venezuela's economy was from the nationalization--socialism.

The nationalization happened long before the collapse.

The collapse did not begin until after Chavez was dead.

His policies did not cause it.

 

[steve_bank]

The handyman has total control. He can say yes or no to any request.

You are not a dictator over him.

- - - Updated - - -

The Soviet Union was a dictatorship and Venezuela is capitalist.

The dictatorship of the Soviet Union was communism as it exists. Venezuela wasn't capitalist, it's failure is socialism as it exists.

The Soviet Union was dictatorship as it exists.

Venezuela is capitalism when you try to make it fair.

You have outdone yourself. Open mouth, insert foot.

 

[untermensche]

The handyman has total control. He can say yes or no to any request.

You are not a dictator over him.

- - - Updated - - -



The Soviet Union was dictatorship as it exists.

Venezuela is capitalism when you try to make it fair.

You have outdone yourself. Open mouth, insert foot.

That is only fantasies you believe.

If it were something true you could do more than say it.

 

[fromderinside]

Yeah. Its ridiculous to think you would open your mouth since it's always flapping out inanities via keyboard. Do you really want us to discuss the operations of your mouth re your foot?

Handyman has no control over whether a person who needs work will hire him. So he's at the tender mercies of emotion and economics in situation. No control seen there.

Fairness has little to do with capitalism. Its not barter and barter is only as good as the intel it has about what is equal and fair. Putting coin as a proxy does little to improve the process other than to remove the need for actual product at the transaction site.

 

[untermensche]

Yeah. Its ridiculous to think you would open your mouth since it's always flapping out inanities via keyboard. Do you really want us to discuss the operations of your mouth re your foot?

Handyman has no control over whether a person who needs work will hire him. So he's at the tender mercies of emotion and economics in situation. No control seen there.

Fairness has little to do with capitalism. Its not barter and barter is only as good as the intel it has about what is equal and fair. Putting coin as a proxy does little to improve the process other than to remove the need for actual product at the transaction site.

The person who needs the handyman is at the tender mercies of the handyman.

Or the person who needs their A/C fixed.

It is a reciprocal relationship.

No master no servant.

As opposed to being in a top down rigid hierarchy.

I was in one. It was called the Marine Corps. You took orders from above and passed them to below.

No different in structure than a corporation.

In a corporation you report to your direct supervisors, not to the dictators at the top. That is a main purpose of managers in a dictatorship, to maintain the integrity of the power structure. They are chosen for how well they lick backsides, not for how they lead. They do not lead anyone, they give orders passed from above and make sure those orders are carried out to the letter. You don't want to make the masters angry.

After a point of development the mentality that accepts dictatorship as a moral structure of power is not natural.

It has to be carefully placed there. And there has to be no real alternative for most so there is some learned helplessness as well.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The Soviet Union was dictatorship as it exists.

A communist dictatorship as it it exists, therefore communism as it exists.

Venezuela is capitalism when you try to make it fair.

Venezuela is such a catastrophic failure that even though it is thoroughly socialism as it exists people will still try to call it capitalism. Was the nationalization of all the major businesses an example of capitalism?

 

[untermensche]

Since I am neither an advocate of dictatorship or failed capitalism what do I care?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Since I am neither an advocate of dictatorship or failed capitalism what do I care?

Ironically, it takes a dictatorship to start either an anarchist or a socialist system because there will be people who no part of a forced system. These systems can't be created on their own with a leaderless mob.