What liberals (still) get wrong about Trump's support

[EvoUK]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support

Liberals and progressives are forever predicting Donald Trump’s political demise. After each purported outrage – Charlottesville, separating children from their immigrant parents, now Helsinki – they confidently contend that this latest event will finally force Trump’s supporters to abandon him. Yet not only does this not happen, Trump’s support has actually risen by 6% since late 2017. How do they keep getting it so wrong?

...

Evangelicals are a case in point. My work on Republican factions, contained in the book I co-authored with Professor Dante Scala, , found that very conservative voters who highly value social issues comprise about 25% of the party. These voters today are very afraid that liberal and progressive judges will slowly circumscribe their ability to practice their religion in their daily lives. They tended not to support Trump during the primaries, instead backing the Texas senator Ted Cruz. Their support for Trump now is highly transactional: so long as he nominates the judges they think will protect their beliefs and way of life, they will overlook virtually anything else he says or does.

This pretty much sums up my experience of evangelical right wingers on forums I come across- so long as he provides the SCOTUS nominations and packs courts with ill-equiped right wing judges they can forgive him anything.

 

[scombrid]

Remember when Obama said to supporters at a fund raiser in San Francisco in spring 2008:

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Hillary jumped all over it, calling him elitist and out of touch. The Hannitized right rode that comment into the ground. You'd think it would have made Hillary careful to not make the "deplorable" comment that ended up getting top billing

But look at where we are today. It is like Trump and his strategists took that statement and made it into a checklist of targets. It really does not matter the substance of what he does as long as they believe that he is fighting for their identity.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Once again the evangelicals are fucking things up for all of us. They did it with the KKK in the past, and it continues today.

 

[untermensche]

I am not predicting Trump's demise.

The US has a very sick society. White nationalists and religious fundamentalists and gun nuts everywhere. Thoroughly corrupted by corporate power in the government.

He is a reflection of it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support

Liberals and progressives are forever predicting Donald Trump’s political demise. After each purported outrage – Charlottesville, separating children from their immigrant parents, now Helsinki – they confidently contend that this latest event will finally force Trump’s supporters to abandon him. Yet not only does this not happen, Trump’s support has actually risen by 6% since late 2017. How do they keep getting it so wrong?

...

Evangelicals are a case in point. My work on Republican factions, contained in the book I co-authored with Professor Dante Scala, , found that very conservative voters who highly value social issues comprise about 25% of the party. These voters today are very afraid that liberal and progressive judges will slowly circumscribe their ability to practice their religion in their daily lives. They tended not to support Trump during the primaries, instead backing the Texas senator Ted Cruz. Their support for Trump now is highly transactional: so long as he nominates the judges they think will protect their beliefs and way of life, they will overlook virtually anything else he says or does.

This pretty much sums up my experience of evangelical right wingers on forums I come across- so long as he provides the SCOTUS nominations and packs courts with ill-equiped right wing judges they can forgive him anything.

I think of the child seizure thing. That was looking terrible, awful optics. So bad, that Trump had to at least pretend to reverse course on it. I wouldn't call it a win for the Dems as they didn't do anything, but it was a loss for Trump and it was exposing their awful intentions.

So what happens, some Democrats start calling for the end of ICE.

SERIOUSLY?! Trump is on the ropes for like the first time in his ill tainted Presidency where nothing sticks to him... this is finally sticking and you start talking about ending ICE?!

So instead of the child separation policies exposing him being the news, we read about how the liberals are trying to abolish ICE and the Republicans voting in favor of ICE and protecting our borders. FUCK!

 

[bilby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support

Liberals and progressives are forever predicting Donald Trump’s political demise. After each purported outrage – Charlottesville, separating children from their immigrant parents, now Helsinki – they confidently contend that this latest event will finally force Trump’s supporters to abandon him. Yet not only does this not happen, Trump’s support has actually risen by 6% since late 2017. How do they keep getting it so wrong?

...

Evangelicals are a case in point. My work on Republican factions, contained in the book I co-authored with Professor Dante Scala, , found that very conservative voters who highly value social issues comprise about 25% of the party. These voters today are very afraid that liberal and progressive judges will slowly circumscribe their ability to practice their religion in their daily lives. They tended not to support Trump during the primaries, instead backing the Texas senator Ted Cruz. Their support for Trump now is highly transactional: so long as he nominates the judges they think will protect their beliefs and way of life, they will overlook virtually anything else he says or does.

This pretty much sums up my experience of evangelical right wingers on forums I come across- so long as he provides the SCOTUS nominations and packs courts with ill-equiped right wing judges they can forgive him anything.

I think of the child seizure thing. That was looking terrible, awful optics. So bad, that Trump had to at least pretend to reverse course on it. I wouldn't call it a win for the Dems as they didn't do anything, but it was a loss for Trump and it was exposing their awful intentions.

So what happens, some Democrats start calling for the end of ICE.

SERIOUSLY?! Trump is on the ropes for like the first time in his ill tainted Presidency where nothing sticks to him... this is finally sticking and you start talking about ending ICE?!

So instead of the child separation policies exposing him being the news, we read about how the liberals are trying to abolish ICE and the Republicans voting in favor of ICE and protecting our borders. FUCK!

What makes you think that these calls originated from 'some Democrats'? Their effect has not been to the benefit of Democrats.

Perhaps some Democrats are too stupid to grasp how harmful such calls might be; But those people are likely too stupid to come up with that slightly off-topic idea in the first place. They are not too stupid to spread it around once the seed has been planted, though.

The right wing authoritarian propaganda machine is highly adept at redirecting outrage in this way. It's easy to push people into making hyperbolic demands, thereby undermining their original and quite reasonable demands.

 

[Elixir]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support

Liberals and progressives are forever predicting Donald Trump’s political demise. After each purported outrage – Charlottesville, separating children from their immigrant parents, now Helsinki – they confidently contend that this latest event will finally force Trump’s supporters to abandon him. Yet not only does this not happen, Trump’s support has actually risen by 6% since late 2017. How do they keep getting it so wrong?

...

Evangelicals are a case in point. My work on Republican factions, contained in the book I co-authored with Professor Dante Scala, , found that very conservative voters who highly value social issues comprise about 25% of the party. These voters today are very afraid that liberal and progressive judges will slowly circumscribe their ability to practice their religion in their daily lives. They tended not to support Trump during the primaries, instead backing the Texas senator Ted Cruz. Their support for Trump now is highly transactional: so long as he nominates the judges they think will protect their beliefs and way of life, they will overlook virtually anything else he says or does.

This pretty much sums up my experience of evangelical right wingers on forums I come across- so long as he provides the SCOTUS nominations and packs courts with ill-equiped right wing judges they can forgive him anything.

I think of the child seizure thing. That was looking terrible, awful optics. So bad, that Trump had to at least pretend to reverse course on it. I wouldn't call it a win for the Dems as they didn't do anything, but it was a loss for Trump and it was exposing their awful intentions.

So what happens, some Democrats start calling for the end of ICE.

SERIOUSLY?! Trump is on the ropes for like the first time in his ill tainted Presidency where nothing sticks to him... this is finally sticking and you start talking about ending ICE?!

So instead of the child separation policies exposing him being the news, we read about how the liberals are trying to abolish ICE and the Republicans voting in favor of ICE and protecting our borders. FUCK!

It's pretty frustrating - you can hand the Dem establishment a victory on a silver platter, and they'll discard the victory and complain about the extravagance of using a silver platter...

 

[EvoUK]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support

Liberals and progressives are forever predicting Donald Trump’s political demise. After each purported outrage – Charlottesville, separating children from their immigrant parents, now Helsinki – they confidently contend that this latest event will finally force Trump’s supporters to abandon him. Yet not only does this not happen, Trump’s support has actually risen by 6% since late 2017. How do they keep getting it so wrong?

...

Evangelicals are a case in point. My work on Republican factions, contained in the book I co-authored with Professor Dante Scala, , found that very conservative voters who highly value social issues comprise about 25% of the party. These voters today are very afraid that liberal and progressive judges will slowly circumscribe their ability to practice their religion in their daily lives. They tended not to support Trump during the primaries, instead backing the Texas senator Ted Cruz. Their support for Trump now is highly transactional: so long as he nominates the judges they think will protect their beliefs and way of life, they will overlook virtually anything else he says or does.

This pretty much sums up my experience of evangelical right wingers on forums I come across- so long as he provides the SCOTUS nominations and packs courts with ill-equiped right wing judges they can forgive him anything.

I think of the child seizure thing. That was looking terrible, awful optics. So bad, that Trump had to at least pretend to reverse course on it. I wouldn't call it a win for the Dems as they didn't do anything, but it was a loss for Trump and it was exposing their awful intentions.

So what happens, some Democrats start calling for the end of ICE.

SERIOUSLY?! Trump is on the ropes for like the first time in his ill tainted Presidency where nothing sticks to him... this is finally sticking and you start talking about ending ICE?!

So instead of the child separation policies exposing him being the news, we read about how the liberals are trying to abolish ICE and the Republicans voting in favor of ICE and protecting our borders. FUCK!

Yeah, my experience of that was 'yeah, it's not nice and I don't necessarily agree with it, but A) what sort of parent would take their kids across the desert in the first place b) they're illegal and splitting up families when a parent goes to prison happens all the time and c) ya but they're just going on a law put in place by Dems so why didn't you get upset when Obama did it you hypocrite (insert pic of kids allegedly in cages under Obama)'

Then the ICE thing happened and Dems are not only murdering babies but they also want to eliminate borders and let the world in in an unstoppable tide.

 

[Derec]

Then the ICE thing happened and Dems are not only murdering babies but they also want to eliminate borders and let the world in in an unstoppable tide.

This is how you lose 2018:

 

[RavenSky]

ICE didn't exist prior to 2003. There is no reason that it must exist now.

It can be easy to forget when you consider how much harm the agency has inflicted and how large it currently looms in the political landscape, but ICE is barely 15 years old.

It’s worth asking how we got here.

https://splinternews.com/a-short-brutal-history-of-ice-1822641556

What before had been Immigration and Naturalization Services, under the Justice Department, and the United States Customs Service, part of the Treasury Department, were folded into this new, national security-focused agency and divided into three components: Immigration and Customs Enforcement, United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, and United States Custom and Border Protection.

“At the time, those of us who study immigration pointed out how dramatic a change this was, to place immigration, which had been under the Department of Justice, into this new agency called Homeland Security,” says Erika Lee, a history professor at the University of Minnesota and director of the school’s Immigration History Research Centers. “It sends the message that immigration was a threat—that all immigration was a threat.”

 

[scombrid]

SERIOUSLY?! Trump is on the ropes for like the first time in his ill tainted Presidency where nothing sticks to him... this is finally sticking and you start talking about ending ICE?!

So instead of the child separation policies exposing him being the news, we read about how the liberals are trying to abolish ICE and the Republicans voting in favor of ICE and protecting our borders. FUCK!

I felt the same way.

But then there's this. Where did the "abolish ICE" position originate and is it even anywhere near a popular opinion among non-conservatives?
I bet an overwhelming majority of liberals think that abolishing ICE is a stupid idea. But it that the way the media play it? No, a handful of liberals can advocate an extreme position and suddenly that reflecst all liberals.

Why the hell can't we make that same standard stick for the right wing? Must be massive corporate funding behind the right wing propaganda machine.

 

[scombrid]

ICE didn't exist prior to 2003. There is no reason that it must exist now.

It can be easy to forget when you consider how much harm the agency has inflicted and how large it currently looms in the political landscape, but ICE is barely 15 years old.

It’s worth asking how we got here.

https://splinternews.com/a-short-brutal-history-of-ice-1822641556

What before had been Immigration and Naturalization Services, under the Justice Department, and the United States Customs Service, part of the Treasury Department, were folded into this new, national security-focused agency and divided into three components: Immigration and Customs Enforcement, United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, and United States Custom and Border Protection.

“At the time, those of us who study immigration pointed out how dramatic a change this was, to place immigration, which had been under the Department of Justice, into this new agency called Homeland Security,” says Erika Lee, a history professor at the University of Minnesota and director of the school’s Immigration History Research Centers. “It sends the message that immigration was a threat—that all immigration was a threat.”

This is interesting to point out that ICE is a Patriot Act creation. Just a couple of years ago the right wing propaganda machine was very anti-DHS. They spread conspiracy theories that DHS was stockpiling ammo to use against the civilian population. They used pre-orders for ammunition purchases with ICE being among the agencies that were buying ammo. They spread conspiracy theories that FEMA was building concentration camps. And on and on. DHS storm troopers were going to kick in their doors and take their guns any day.

Now DHS is the right's bestest buddy.

That's the propaganda winning way.

Best shot that liberals would have at an effective narrative would be to hammer the anti-DHS angle of how ICE replaced INS as part of the freedom killing patriot act. A handful of flakes dancing in the street and blocking traffic with bandanas over their mouths isn't helpful. But then the media will only pay attention to liberals that are doing that kind of stuff because the academic and sane liberals are boring. Moreover, the media only wants to portray the extreme because the media is ultimately at the service of the corporate propaganda machine.

 

[bilby]

ICE didn't exist prior to 2003. There is no reason that it must exist now.

https://splinternews.com/a-short-brutal-history-of-ice-1822641556

This is interesting to point out that ICE is a Patriot Act creation. Just a couple of years ago the right wing propaganda machine was very anti-DHS. They spread conspiracy theories that DHS was stockpiling ammo to use against the civilian population. They used pre-orders for ammunition purchases with ICE being among the agencies that were buying ammo. They spread conspiracy theories that FEMA was building concentration camps. And on and on. DHS storm troopers were going to kick in their doors and take their guns any day.

Now DHS is the right's bestest buddy.

That's the propaganda winning way.

Best shot that liberals would have at an effective narrative would be to hammer the anti-DHS angle of how ICE replaced INS as part of the freedom killing patriot act. A handful of flakes dancing in the street and blocking traffic with bandanas over their mouths isn't helpful. But then the media will only pay attention to liberals that are doing that kind of stuff because the academic and sane liberals are boring. Moreover, the media only wants to portray the extreme because the media is ultimately at the service of the corporate propaganda machine a form of entertainment.

FTFY.

The media do not give a flying crap what they broadcast, as long as it gets audiences, and hence advertising revenue.

If it bleeds, it leads.

The best of the media only broadcast the sensational and extreme stuff that also happens to be true; The worst don't give a crap about truth, as long as they get bums on seats. And a bigger bunch of bums than the Fox News audience you couldn't hope to meet.

The idea that the news should broadcast what is important, rather than what is entertaining has all but died; The handful of outlets that cling to that principle get tiny audiences, and are woefully underfunded.

 

[Trausti]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support

Liberals and progressives are forever predicting Donald Trump’s political demise. After each purported outrage – Charlottesville, separating children from their immigrant parents, now Helsinki – they confidently contend that this latest event will finally force Trump’s supporters to abandon him. Yet not only does this not happen, Trump’s support has actually risen by 6% since late 2017. How do they keep getting it so wrong?

...

Evangelicals are a case in point. My work on Republican factions, contained in the book I co-authored with Professor Dante Scala, , found that very conservative voters who highly value social issues comprise about 25% of the party. These voters today are very afraid that liberal and progressive judges will slowly circumscribe their ability to practice their religion in their daily lives. They tended not to support Trump during the primaries, instead backing the Texas senator Ted Cruz. Their support for Trump now is highly transactional: so long as he nominates the judges they think will protect their beliefs and way of life, they will overlook virtually anything else he says or does.

This pretty much sums up my experience of evangelical right wingers on forums I come across- so long as he provides the SCOTUS nominations and packs courts with ill-equiped right wing judges they can forgive him anything.

Well, not just evangelicals. Trump may be erratic, say silly shit, and go on Twitter rampages; but he also cut taxes, cut regulation, eliminated the individual mandate, withdrew the US from the Paris climate agreement, stopped arming Syrian jihadists, is overseeing a robust economy, has a Bull market, etc. As long as he sticks to his campaign promises and the economy is good, I simply don't care what else he does. Yet, he does drive the lefties crazy and that is fun to watch.

 

[Trausti]

SERIOUSLY?! Trump is on the ropes for like the first time in his ill tainted Presidency where nothing sticks to him... this is finally sticking and you start talking about ending ICE?!

So instead of the child separation policies exposing him being the news, we read about how the liberals are trying to abolish ICE and the Republicans voting in favor of ICE and protecting our borders. FUCK!

I felt the same way.

But then there's this. Where did the "abolish ICE" position originate and is it even anywhere near a popular opinion among non-conservatives?
I bet an overwhelming majority of liberals think that abolishing ICE is a stupid idea. But it that the way the media play it? No, a handful of liberals can advocate an extreme position and suddenly that reflecst all liberals.

Why the hell can't we make that same standard stick for the right wing? Must be massive corporate funding behind the right wing propaganda machine.

The left doesn't know how to meme.

 

[bilby]

As long as he sticks to his campaign promises and the economy is good, I simply don't care what else he does. Yet, he does drive the lefties crazy and that is fun to watch.

[ent]nbsp[/ent]

 

[Elixir]

SERIOUSLY?! Trump is on the ropes for like the first time in his ill tainted Presidency where nothing sticks to him... this is finally sticking and you start talking about ending ICE?!

So instead of the child separation policies exposing him being the news, we read about how the liberals are trying to abolish ICE and the Republicans voting in favor of ICE and protecting our borders. FUCK!

I felt the same way.

But then there's this. Where did the "abolish ICE" position originate and is it even anywhere near a popular opinion among non-conservatives?
I bet an overwhelming majority of liberals think that abolishing ICE is a stupid idea. But it that the way the media play it? No, a handful of liberals can advocate an extreme position and suddenly that reflecst all liberals.

Why the hell can't we make that same standard stick for the right wing? Must be massive corporate funding behind the right wing propaganda machine.

The left doesn't know how to meme.

Paid for by ... ?
I'm guessing Uncle Vlad.

 

[scombrid]

SERIOUSLY?! Trump is on the ropes for like the first time in his ill tainted Presidency where nothing sticks to him... this is finally sticking and you start talking about ending ICE?!

So instead of the child separation policies exposing him being the news, we read about how the liberals are trying to abolish ICE and the Republicans voting in favor of ICE and protecting our borders. FUCK!

I felt the same way.

But then there's this. Where did the "abolish ICE" position originate and is it even anywhere near a popular opinion among non-conservatives?
I bet an overwhelming majority of liberals think that abolishing ICE is a stupid idea. But it that the way the media play it? No, a handful of liberals can advocate an extreme position and suddenly that reflecst all liberals.

Why the hell can't we make that same standard stick for the right wing? Must be massive corporate funding behind the right wing propaganda machine.

The left doesn't know how to meme.

Who is most susceptible to the memes? Who is least likely to check the source of the memes and get offended if you pick apart the meme when they share it on social media?

Seems to be the same people filling their social media feed with political meme-shares that were spreading all the chain email hoaxes that birthed "snopes" before we had facebook, twitter, and the like to use as spam platforms. Seems to be the same people that flocked to FOX and Talk Radio.

 

[Derec]

ICE didn't exist prior to 2003. There is no reason that it must exist now.

ICE wasn't created de novo. It was created by restructuring existing agencies.
Now, the hard left does not call for reorganizing ICE or going to pre-2003 situation. No, they call to abolish ICE and if you look at the signs, they often appear next to signs like "NO borders NO nations NO deportations" like those by the Democratic Socialists of America . They are hardly an obscure group, as they have led several of primary upsets this year, most notably that of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

It’s worth asking how we got here.https://splinternews.com/a-short-brutal-history-of-ice-1822641556

Sprinter is a lefty website owned by Univision, a Mexican TV network. No wonder they support mass migration ...

 

[untermensche]

The left is not a bunch of frightened lemmings.

The way you keep track of people best is when they have a job and a home and security.