Whatever you do: Don't call her Tootz!

[Harry Bosch]

A PHd who was traveling on Qantas was offended when an attendant called her "miss" rather than Doctor (which was her title on her boarding ticket).

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...-twitter-trolls-everyday-sexism-a8527096.html

I thought the story was crazy. Is it really "sexist" to not call a woman doctor Doctor? I have several medical doctor friends who never see the need to ask people to call them doctor. I just don't think that the title is necessary in public. She has 8 years in a university. Well, I have 6 years. Can I be called doctor light? Who cares?

I will say that calling a medical doctor in public alerts everyone that a doctor is in the area in case of an emergency. I was on a flight once with my wife when we overheard a passenger being addressed as doctor. This doctor fell asleep. A medical issue arose with another passenger. My wife immediately woke the doctor to alert her of the situation.

Anyway, what think you?

 

[laughing dog]

I know lots of Ph.D.s. A significant portion of them expect and demand to be referred to as doctors. I would say most of them that I know don't care.

I prefer not to be called "doctor" because people then assume you are a physician. While I have nothing against physicians, I don't know anything about medicine and I think a real physician might take umbrage that I am confused with her/him.

I have a Ph.D. and the only time I made a to do about being called a doctor is when I was on a committee which was headed by a person with Ed.D. who demanded to be called doctor but would not call refer to me as a doctor. I did not make a demand, I simply started referring to him as Mr. When he complained, I said "I have a Ph.D. and you don't hear me complaining about not be called doctor".

 

[Underseer]

A PHd who was traveling on Qantas was offended when an attendant called her "miss" rather than Doctor (which was her title on her boarding ticket).

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...-twitter-trolls-everyday-sexism-a8527096.html

I thought the story was crazy. Is it really "sexist" to not call a woman doctor Doctor? I have several medical doctor friends who never see the need to ask people to call them doctor. I just don't think that the title is necessary in public. She has 8 years in a university. Well, I have 6 years. Can I be called doctor light? Who cares?

I will say that calling a medical doctor in public alerts everyone that a doctor is in the area in case of an emergency. I was on a flight once with my wife when we overheard a passenger being addressed as doctor. This doctor fell asleep. A medical issue arose with another passenger. My wife immediately woke the doctor to alert her of the situation.

Anyway, what think you?

Gosh, she put in all that work to get that title, and she's upset that people try to pass her off as just another pair of legs to be gawked at? How unreasonable of her! This is clear evidence that men are the real victims here! [/conservolibertarian]

 

[ronburgundy]

A PHd who was traveling on Qantas was offended when an attendant called her "miss" rather than Doctor (which was her title on her boarding ticket).

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...-twitter-trolls-everyday-sexism-a8527096.html

I thought the story was crazy. Is it really "sexist" to not call a woman doctor Doctor? I have several medical doctor friends who never see the need to ask people to call them doctor. I just don't think that the title is necessary in public. She has 8 years in a university. Well, I have 6 years. Can I be called doctor light? Who cares?

I will say that calling a medical doctor in public alerts everyone that a doctor is in the area in case of an emergency. I was on a flight once with my wife when we overheard a passenger being addressed as doctor. This doctor fell asleep. A medical issue arose with another passenger. My wife immediately woke the doctor to alert her of the situation.

Anyway, what think you?

Gosh, she put in all that work to get that title, and she's upset that people try to pass her off as just another pair of legs to be gawked at? How unreasonable of her! This is clear evidence that men are the real victims here! [/conservolibertarian]

Gosh, I'm gonna spout a bunch of strawman nonsense that is oblivious to all reality and tries to turn everything into a tired hobbyhorse that has no relevance to the topic. [/every post ever by Underseer]

 

[Toni]

Yeah, she's probably making a big deal out of a nothing sandwich.

On the other hand, I also know a number of Ph.D.'s, a significant portion of whom are women. A significant number of the women have endured years and even decades of gender based discrimination, largely in the form of others assuming they are the assistant, etc. Quick, easy off the top of my head examples include Rosalind Franklin and Dame Jocelyn Bell Burnell. I can think of at least one female MD of my acquaintance who was really getting tired of patients assuming she was the nurse, despite the MD title on her name tag. And of course, the medical profession often makes life difficult for female physicians and medical students in ways that aren't necessary and ways that male physicians and medical students do not experience. So do all areas of academia.

It could well be that this particular PhD's reaction was a reflex in response to years, if not decades, of being undermined and belittled and overlooked and ignored because of her gender.

Or it could be a big nothing sandwich wrapped around a big ego. Occasionally PhD's have those.

 

[ronburgundy]

Anyone who demands to referred to as "Dr." outside of their specific professional setting is a pathetic, insecure pretentious shitbag.

The very fact that she went out of her way to put "Dr." as title on her boarding pass already shows what a status-seeking twit she is.

Myself, my wife, and most of friends are "Dr.s" and never do this.

In no way is it sexist for the attendant not to pay attention to such meaningless information that had zero to do with the reason for the interaction.

 

[Toni]

Anyone who demands to referred to as "Dr." outside of their specific professional setting is a pathetic, insecure pretentious shitbag.

The very fact that she went out of her way to put "Dr." as title on her boarding pass already shows what a status-seeking twit she is.

Myself, my wife, and most of friends are "Dr.s" and never do this.

In no way is it sexist for the attendant not to pay attention to such meaningless information that had zero to do with the reason for the interaction.

So, your position is that anyone who behaves differently than you would or your wife or your friends is a status seeking twit? Am I understanding that correctly?

It's an interesting position for a Ph.D. who one would normally assume to be well educated, tolerant of and able to understand other POV.

That's the case for most of the Ph.D.s I know.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Anyone who demands to referred to as "Dr." outside of their specific professional setting is a pathetic, insecure pretentious shitbag.

The very fact that she went out of her way to put "Dr." as title on her boarding pass already shows what a status-seeking twit she is.

Myself, my wife, and most of friends are "Dr.s" and never do this.

In no way is it sexist for the attendant not to pay attention to such meaningless information that had zero to do with the reason for the interaction.

A little harsh! Most doctors I know don't carry their title on their sleeve. Again, I do think that there is value when you know a medical professional is around. Secondly, regarding Toni's comment above: it is annoying that someone would assume that a woman is a nurse for example. However, these assumptions arose because the vast majority of medical doctors were men, in the old days. That is changing. In fact, I read a study that 70% of today's medical school graduates are women.

 

[Toni]

Anyone who demands to referred to as "Dr." outside of their specific professional setting is a pathetic, insecure pretentious shitbag.

The very fact that she went out of her way to put "Dr." as title on her boarding pass already shows what a status-seeking twit she is.

Myself, my wife, and most of friends are "Dr.s" and never do this.

In no way is it sexist for the attendant not to pay attention to such meaningless information that had zero to do with the reason for the interaction.

A little harsh! Most doctors I know don't carry their title on their sleeve. Again, I do think that there is value when you know a medical professional is around. Secondly, regarding Toni's comment above: it is annoying that someone would assume that a woman is a nurse for example. However, these assumptions arose because the vast majority of medical doctors were men, in the old days. That is changing. In fact, I read a study that 70% of today's medical school graduates are women.

The MD who was often assumed to be a nurse despite the MD on her name tag? She’s still a fairly young woman. Unfortunately, things haven’t changed enough. Yet.

 

[ronburgundy]

Anyone who demands to referred to as "Dr." outside of their specific professional setting is a pathetic, insecure pretentious shitbag.

The very fact that she went out of her way to put "Dr." as title on her boarding pass already shows what a status-seeking twit she is.

Myself, my wife, and most of friends are "Dr.s" and never do this.

In no way is it sexist for the attendant not to pay attention to such meaningless information that had zero to do with the reason for the interaction.

So, your position is that anyone who behaves differently than you would or your wife or your friends is a status seeking twit? Am I understanding that correctly?

No, as always, you are not understanding anything correctly. My position is that anyone who would demand that everyone around them, even in non-professional settings, must address them as "Dr." is a status seeking shithead, since that is the sole possible motive for such a elitist behavior.

It's an interesting position for a Ph.D. who one would normally assume to be well educated, tolerant of and able to understand other POV.

I understand her POV just fine. Her words prove that her POV is that she views herself superior to those around her and demands others to treat her as some lauded authority.

She confirmed that its all about status seeking and authority over others when she stated "I worked hard to earn my authority, and I will not give it up to anyone."

A little harsh! Most doctors I know don't carry their title on their sleeve. Again, I do think that there is value when you know a medical professional is around.

She isn't a medical doctor. She is an academic Dr. of Philosophy with specialties in "psychology and human movement". It is not at all valuable for anyone on the plane (or anywhere else outside academia) to know what college degree she has.

 

[Toni]

No, as always, you are not understanding anything correctly. My position is that anyone who would demand that everyone around them, even in non-professional settings, must address them as "Dr." is a status seeking shithead, since that is the sole possible motive for such a elitist behavior.

It's an interesting position for a Ph.D. who one would normally assume to be well educated, tolerant of and able to understand other POV.

I understand her POV just fine. Her words prove that her POV is that she views herself superior to those around her and demands others to treat her as some lauded authority.

She confirmed that its all about status seeking and authority over others when she stated "I worked hard to earn my authority, and I will not give it up to anyone."

A little harsh! Most doctors I know don't carry their title on their sleeve. Again, I do think that there is value when you know a medical professional is around.

She isn't a medical doctor. She is an academic Dr. of Philosophy with specialties in "psychology and human movement". It is not at all valuable for anyone on the plane (or anywhere else outside academia) to know what college degree she has.

So, despite your protestations, you are unwilling to consider someone else’s POV if it differs from your own. You are certain that you are the purveyor and arbiter and One True Judge of the right way to do all things.

I don’t remember if you’ve defended your dissertation yet?

 

[ruby sparks]

In this case I'm inclined to err on the side of thinking 'probable overreaction' and 'possibly a twit'.

 

[laughing dog]

Do I think this person over-reacted a bit. But even in the small scheme of things this is not a big deal. She did not make a stink on the plane, she simply tweeted about it. There is no real reason for anyone to get terribly upset or judgmental over this.

In the linked article, and there is a link to another article hat reports on the nastiness and sexism that some other woman (and then some women pilots) encounter when they assert their title/position/authority.
There does appear to be a significant minority of complete asswipes around.

 

[zorq]

No, as always, you are not understanding anything correctly. My position is that anyone who would demand that everyone around them, even in non-professional settings, must address them as "Dr." is a status seeking shithead, since that is the sole possible motive for such a elitist behavior.




I understand her POV just fine. Her words prove that her POV is that she views herself superior to those around her and demands others to treat her as some lauded authority.

She confirmed that its all about status seeking and authority over others when she stated "I worked hard to earn my authority, and I will not give it up to anyone."




She isn't a medical doctor. She is an academic Dr. of Philosophy with specialties in "psychology and human movement". It is not at all valuable for anyone on the plane (or anywhere else outside academia) to know what college degree she has.

So, despite your protestations, you are unwilling to consider someone else’s POV if it differs from your own. You are certain that you are the purveyor and arbiter and One True Judge of the right way to do all things.

I don’t remember if you’ve defended your dissertation yet?

Toni, ronburgundy has just shown that he has considered the other person's POV. He gave evidence justifying his evaluation of their POV. He's not a mind reader but he is making educated guesses which are supported by the facts we have available.

Not every human out there is a victim. Some humans abuse others, (directly or passive-agressively). Some humans abuse others by feigning or imagining non-existant victim-hood. These three sentences are facts.

ronburgundy could be incorrect, but his judgement isn't by any means unreasonable.

 

[bilby]

Titles are a courtesy. To insist upon them outside the professional environment to which they are applicable is egotistical nonsense.

If you are in court, you should call the judge 'Your honour'. If you are serving a judge coffee, 'Mr' or 'Ms' is fine.

Insistence on titles is just silly. "Power is like being a lady... if you have to tell people you are, you aren't" - (commonly attributed to Margaret Thatcher)

Given that this was Qantas, I would imagine that the woman in the OP was addressed as 'Ms' rather than 'Miss', but these are homophones for many combinations of speaker/listener accent, so who knows.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

A PHd who was traveling on Qantas was offended when an attendant called her "miss" rather than Doctor (which was her title on her boarding ticket).

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...-twitter-trolls-everyday-sexism-a8527096.html

I thought the story was crazy. Is it really "sexist" to not call a woman doctor Doctor?

Its insane. Just because you are a doctor doesn't mean everybody must call you doctor. That's so silly. And does this apply to men and women, or is it just for women, looking to take offence?

My sister is a medical doctor. I call her derp, and have since she was 8. She's smarter than this lady and doesn't go around advertising her job title.

 

[Toni]

No, as always, you are not understanding anything correctly. My position is that anyone who would demand that everyone around them, even in non-professional settings, must address them as "Dr." is a status seeking shithead, since that is the sole possible motive for such a elitist behavior.




I understand her POV just fine. Her words prove that her POV is that she views herself superior to those around her and demands others to treat her as some lauded authority.

She confirmed that its all about status seeking and authority over others when she stated "I worked hard to earn my authority, and I will not give it up to anyone."




She isn't a medical doctor. She is an academic Dr. of Philosophy with specialties in "psychology and human movement". It is not at all valuable for anyone on the plane (or anywhere else outside academia) to know what college degree she has.

So, despite your protestations, you are unwilling to consider someone else’s POV if it differs from your own. You are certain that you are the purveyor and arbiter and One True Judge of the right way to do all things.

I don’t remember if you’ve defended your dissertation yet?

Toni, ronburgundy has just shown that he has considered the other person's POV. He gave evidence justifying his evaluation of their POV. He's not a mind reader but he is making educated guesses which are supported by the facts we have available.

Not every human out there is a victim. Some humans abuse others, (directly or passive-agressively). Some humans abuse others by feigning or imagining non-existant victim-hood. These three sentences are facts.

ronburgundy could be incorrect, but his judgement isn't by any means unreasonable.

what ronburgundy said was the following--in the post I was responding to was:

No, as always, you are not understanding anything correctly. My position is that anyone who would demand that everyone around them, even in non-professional settings, must address them as "Dr." is a status seeking shithead, since that is the sole possible motive for such a elitist behavior.

This is the opposite of considering anyone else's position because ronburgundy has made up his mind that anyone who wishes to be addressed as Dr. (a title that was earned) is a status seeking shithead with the sole possible motive as being an elitist. That's what he said. Not that he felt that her reasons might have been insufficient, not that he considered and rejected the possibility that she had a reason to wish to be addressed using the title she had earned or that she was silly for insisting on something. Nope. He has stated emphatically that ANYONE who wishes to be addressed as Dr. in a non-professional setting is a status seeking shithead. This clearly demonstrates that he has not considered her possible point of view.

For anyone to believe that it is silly and arrogant to insist on such a title in a non-professional setting is certainly a valid point of view. Resorting to calling someone names because they behave differently than the people one claims to know is....not reasonable nor is it evidence of having considered someone else's point of view.

 

[thebeave]

Geez, what's next? Pretty soon there'll be orchestra conductors demanding everyone call them "Maestro"!

 

[Derec]

Gosh, she put in all that work to get that title, and she's upset that people try to pass her off as just another pair of legs to be gawked at? How unreasonable of her!

Is there any evidence that the airline doesn't call female PhDs "Dr." while still calling male PhDs by that honorific.

And where do you get the idea that calling a woman "Ms." or some such is tantamount to her being "just another pair of legs to be gawked at"? Your post is completely nonsensical.

 

[Derec]

Geez, what's next? Pretty soon there'll be orchestra conductors demanding everyone call them "Maestro"!