Serena Williams controversy

[ruby sparks]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvy0d_65aKU[/YOUTUBE]

Ok so I was listening to a radio discussion yesterday about this when two of the female participants suggested there was sexism or some other form of discrimination at play on the part of the umpire. They were challenged on this (politely) by the (male) interviewer.

Personally, I didn't think there was enough to suggest discrimination but there was enough to suggest that the penalties imposed by the umpire were fair and accurate.

What might be missing is an analysis of whether this umpire is as strict with the rules as in this case, and if there's evidence that they aren't as strict, then this particular incident might need to be better explained. There may imo also be a partial point if umpires in general are not as strict as in this case.

But at this point and to be pedantic and I think rational and reasonable, the two female participants did not offer any such evidence. Serena's coach broke the rules, then so did she, and she got the appropriate penalties.

Bonus points for anyone who, after watching the video, can remember without checking the name of the player who actually won the match.

 

[barbos]

I watched video yesterday and remember her last name and that her father is Haitian and mother is from Japan. And she is now 2:0 against Serena. Men would have stopped badgering poor umpire long before she did (she actually did not)

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Men would have stopped badgering poor umpire long before she did (she actually did not)

John McEnroe?

There are some rare people who argue with refs constantly. Or are in a bad state where they might constantly for a game.

 

[phands]

I am a huge Serena fan - even have a picture of me and her hamming it up for the cameras at a fashion event - but she pushed the limits on Saturday.

Serena has a long history of tantrums like this. I watched the whole thing live, and she was wrong to take the tack she did, but the umpire should have warned her before taking away a whole game rather than just a point. Playing the mom and then the sexism cards seems to have lit a fire, but she was out of order.

I feel sorry for Naomi, because even without Serena's behaviour, she was winning commandingly, and her victory was spoiled by unprofessional conduct.

 

[ruby sparks]

I watched video yesterday and remember her last name and that her father is Haitian and mother is from Japan.

 

[ruby sparks]

... but the umpire should have warned her before taking away a whole game rather than just a point.

As I heard it, and I stand to be corrected, the umpire initially issued a warning (for the coaching), then later a point deduction for a second infraction, and only eventually a game deduction for another infraction?

 

[Horatio Parker]

Billie Jean King thinks Williams was treated unfairly:

“Ramos crossed the line. He made himself part of the match,” King wrote in a passionate op-ed for The Washington Post, published Sunday. “He involved himself in the end result. An umpire’s job is to keep control of the match, and he let it get out of control.”

She went on to argue that Williams ― despite her many wins ― is still treated differently than male athletes are.

“Did Ramos treat Williams differently than male players have been treated?” King wrote. “I think he did. Women are treated differently in most arenas of life. This is especially true for women of color. And what played out on the court yesterday happens far too often.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...d-serena-williams_us_5b9595b1e4b0162f472e68ef

 

[phands]

Yes, that's the general sequence of the story. However, his game deduction came without warning, and was drowned out by crowd noise. The players both found out when the expected service change didn't happen. Serena was also fined $17000 for the 3 infractions - admittedly a drop in the bucket of her $1.85M second prize, but adding insult to injury. Serena did attack him several times, which was unprofessional, and given how long she has been in the sport at world level, is inexcusable.

 

[barbos]

Men would have stopped badgering poor umpire long before she did (she actually did not)

John McEnroe?

He never was as bad as Serena here. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

 

[Toni]

Men would have stopped badgering poor umpire long before she did (she actually did not)

John McEnroe?

He never was as bad as Serena. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

Really? I've never followed tennis but McEnroe was known for his wild tantrums. Modern day athletes and coaches are well known for some pretty out of control behavior and it's all considered part of the game and to demonstrate that they are passionate about the game--unless it's a woman.

Serena Williams does seem to have really been catching it hard for behavior that is accepted and celebrated when it's male athletes. She's had to put up with all sorts of speculation about whether or not she can still play after becoming a parent, she's been subjected to pretty terrible treatment for wearing garments to deal with a medical treatment, she had to fight during childbirth in order to get treatment she knew she needed and without which she would have almost certainly lost her life. FWIW this sort of circumstance: women in labor having to fight for medical treatment they need is not nearly so uncommon as you would like to believe. Even with a birth plan that is not odd or weird or inappropriate or any such thing. Of course there's been the body shaming for not being a sylph.

Look at your words: hysterical is never used for men, no matter how they are behaving. Unpredictable? Almost exclusively used for women and not in a good way. Scary? Are you kidding me? I saw a few clips and I never saw anything scary, even if it happened in the grocery aisles or playground. But wait: she's black! I forgot. That truly ups the threat factor.

 

[phands]

J K Rowling scalds political cartoonist for his grotesquely racist attack on Serena Williams

Well said JK Rowling. That cartoon was unbelievable offensive and just plain racist.

I won't post it here - go see for yourself.

Author J.K. Rowling joined other social media users in condemning an Australian political cartoonist for his racist caricature of Serena Williams.

Mark Knight, cartoonist for Melbourne’s Herald Sun newspaper, tweeted out his response to Williams’ challenge of a referee at this weekend’s U.S. Open final, which she lost to Naomi Osaka after she was penalized multiple times and lashed out in frustration.
The cartoonist depicted Williams with grotesquely racist features and showed her stomping on her tennis racquet and spitting out a pacifier, while the referee and opponent are depicted as calm, slender white people.

J.K. Rowling
✔
@jk_rowling
Well done on reducing one of the greatest sportswomen alive to racist and sexist tropes and turning a second great sportswoman into a faceless prop.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/jk...st-grotesquely-racist-attack-serena-williams/

 

[barbos]

He never was as bad as Serena. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

Really? I've never followed tennis but McEnroe was known for his wild tantrums.

Yes, he is the best example of that among men, he is still less bad than Serena in this particular case.

Modern day athletes and coaches are well known for some pretty out of control behavior and it's all considered part of the game and to demonstrate that they are passionate about the game--unless it's a woman.

Serena Williams does seem to have really been catching it hard for behavior that is accepted and celebrated when it's male athletes. She's had to put up with all sorts of speculation about whether or not she can still play after becoming a parent, she's been subjected to pretty terrible treatment for wearing garments to deal with a medical treatment, she had to fight during childbirth in order to get treatment she knew she needed and without which she would have almost certainly lost her life. FWIW this sort of circumstance: women in labor having to fight for medical treatment they need is not nearly so uncommon as you would like to believe. Even with a birth plan that is not odd or weird or inappropriate or any such thing. Of course there's been the body shaming for not being a sylph.

You are doing a very good job explaining why she had that meltdown, but it was a meltdown.

Look at your words: hysterical is never used for men, no matter how they are behaving. Unpredictable? Almost exclusively used for women and not in a good way.

Yes, that's correct and it is usually accurate description.

Scary? Are you kidding me?

I am not kidding, it's scary when you don't know what a person is going to do

I saw a few clips and I never saw anything scary, even if it happened in the grocery aisles or playground. But wait: she's black! I forgot. That truly ups the threat factor.

I know, it seems there are obvious differences in perception of events and it is sex related.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He never was as bad as Serena. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

Really? I've never followed tennis but McEnroe was known for his wild tantrums. Modern day athletes and coaches are well known for some pretty out of control behavior and it's all considered part of the game and to demonstrate that they are passionate about the game--unless it's a woman.

McEnroe is before my time, but from what I've seen, he was notorious... but wasn't Jimmy Connors as well?

Look at your words: hysterical is never used for men, no matter how they are behaving.

It is a bit funny that barbos would decide to claim something of Williams that Billie Jean King would state would be the problem women players deal with... the whole hysteria v outspoken (female/male) observation.

Unpredictable? Almost exclusively used for women and not in a good way. Scary? Are you kidding me? I saw a few clips and I never saw anything scary, even if it happened in the grocery aisles or playground. But wait: she's black! I forgot. That truly ups the threat factor.

Yup... female and black.

Williams was thoroughly beaten by Osaka, of which, Williams would embrace Osaka fully at the end of her loss in the final. She didn't storm off, didn't blame her loss on the referee.

Huffpost has a video of worse 'hysteria'.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...n-court-spats-in-tennis-history-video#slide14

 

[barbos]

Yes, there are double standards. That's why women and men don't play against each other (in singles)
But strictly speaking umpire was going by the book.
Funny in one of the videos I think I saw the same judge as in this Serena match .
In the first video one umpire gave long explanation what player did wrong, he listened and was satisfied in the end. Why was it even there?

Williams was thoroughly beaten by Osaka, of which, Williams would embrace Osaka fully at the end of her loss in the final. She didn't storm off, didn't blame her loss on the referee.

She kept calling him a thief after the loss.

 

[ruby sparks]

Billie Jean King thinks Williams was treated unfairly:

“Ramos crossed the line. He made himself part of the match,” King wrote in a passionate op-ed for The Washington Post, published Sunday. “He involved himself in the end result. An umpire’s job is to keep control of the match, and he let it get out of control.”

She went on to argue that Williams ― despite her many wins ― is still treated differently than male athletes are.

“Did Ramos treat Williams differently than male players have been treated?” King wrote. “I think he did. Women are treated differently in most arenas of life. This is especially true for women of color. And what played out on the court yesterday happens far too often.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...d-serena-williams_us_5b9595b1e4b0162f472e68ef

I haven't read that article, but if BJK has evidence that, for example, men or their coaches are less likely to be penalised for equivalent infractions then she might have a point. Without such evidence it's hard to know.

The general idea that women and women of colour are treated differently (in a non-benign way) is not too hard to agree with, but how much if at all is it relevant here?

I certainly recall John McEnroe for example getting almost routinely penalised for such behaviour. Noting that the rules and codes may have changed since then also.

 

[repoman]

Patrick McEnroe had a good take on this event.

Ha, the cartoonist had the opponent with blonde hair?

 

[ruby sparks]

Men would have stopped badgering poor umpire long before she did (she actually did not)

John McEnroe?

He never was as bad as Serena here. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

I'm not really sure it is a difference, at all.

 

[ZiprHead]

He never was as bad as Serena here. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

I'm not really sure it is a difference, at all.

The only difference is in the perception stunted by bias.

I just watched a couple videos of McEnroe's outbursts. They were far worse than what Serena did here.

 

[dismal]

Billie Jean King thinks Williams was treated unfairly:

“Ramos crossed the line. He made himself part of the match,” King wrote in a passionate op-ed for The Washington Post, published Sunday. “He involved himself in the end result. An umpire’s job is to keep control of the match, and he let it get out of control.”

She went on to argue that Williams ― despite her many wins ― is still treated differently than male athletes are.

“Did Ramos treat Williams differently than male players have been treated?” King wrote. “I think he did. Women are treated differently in most arenas of life. This is especially true for women of color. And what played out on the court yesterday happens far too often.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...d-serena-williams_us_5b9595b1e4b0162f472e68ef

I haven't read that article, but if BJK has evidence that, for example, men or their coaches are less likely to be penalised for equivalent infractions then she might have a point. Without such evidence it's hard to know.

The general idea that women and women of colour are treated differently (in a non-benign way) is not too hard to agree with, but how much if at all is it relevant here?

I certainly recall John McEnroe for example getting almost routinely penalised for such behaviour. Noting that the rules and codes may have changed since then also.

You're not very good at this outrage thing. You're not supposed to apply logic and reason.

The part I don't get is that Serena was playing a "woman of colour". It's not like the call benefited some white dude.