The vanguard of the Caravan is already in Mexico City, more than halfway to the border

[laughing dog]

No one. There is one person here who persistently confuses the posting idiotic conservative meme straw men with intelligent discussion.

Disagreed, but thanks for confessing to be a conservative. I’d never have guessed.

I will give you credit for consistency - stupidly wrong with every response.

 

[Derec]

And the Caravan is moving on from Mexico City.
Migrant caravan departs Mexico City as new caravans merge to reach capital

The caravan of Central American migrants set out on Saturday on foot from Mexico City as more migrants winding their way through southern Mexico were expected to converge on the national capital in the coming days.

Bundling up on a cool morning and toting backpacks with blankets and sleeping cushions, thousands of migrants trudged along Mexico City’s perimeter highway and through its northern suburbs, hoping to hitch rides to take them more than 120 miles to the city of Querétaro. The main migrant caravan, destined for Tijuana, remains a long way from the U.S. southern border. And they face a new asylum policy that went effect Saturday that does not allow anyone to apply unless they come through a border entry point. The ACLU and others are challenging the move in court.

By the way, ACLU is ridiculous on this. If any of them have legit asylum reasons (hardly doubtful) they should present themselves at ports of entry. What ACLU and other leftists demand is that illegals should be able to cross illegally and only apply for asylum (fraudulently) if they get caught. I.e. they want it both ways.

By the way, for all those who think they are not "demanding" stuff.

Caravan coordinators had demanded the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to provide buses to take them to Tijuana – and some 200 migrants marched to the UN office in the posh Polanco district of Mexico City to press their unsuccessful claim.

Another economic migrant admits her true motives for migrating north:

“Trump doesn’t have a heart. He speaking as if he didn’t have a family, didn’t have children,” said Gabriela López, 20, a Honduran migrant heading north with an 11-month-old baby.
“I want to work and work hard and be able to build a house for my mother” back in Honduras, she said. “God’s been guiding me every step of this journey and providing for us.”

How about we dispense with the fiction that these are "asylum seekers" and anything but illegal economic migrants?

 

[Derec]

Yeah, those alt-right morons are really easy to scare. Hell - a couple thousand un-armed, barefoot Latinos that are a thousand miles away make them shit their pants.

Nobody is "shitting their pants" but they are a threat. Especially since if we let this caravan in many more will follow, similar to what's been happening in Europe since 2015 when Merkel first opened the borders to mass migration.

And if they are just waved through the border, they do not need much in terms of weapons, except maybe rocks like they used against Mexican border guards at the Guatemala-Mexico border.

Of course they forget all about it once their orange avatar stops telling them to panic.

I do not care about Trump. He is certainly not my "avatar" if you even know what the word means.

I guess the she-males are still haunting their dreams though... they used to have to use the correct bathroom before the Democrats - oh, wait - no they didn't. Keep on panicking then! That's pretty much all they know how to do.

The she-males are not the issue here, dude! I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, dude. Across this line, you do not...Also, dude, she-male is not the preferred nomenclature. Transgender-American, please! </Walter Sobchek>

- - - Updated - - -

That some actually care that a handful of migrants are heading towards the most powerful and most wealthy nation to ever exist is just amazing.

Trump is teaching some Americans the joy of being a greedy miser. With no friends.

They are more than a "handful" and what is your "solution"? Open the border to anybody who wants to get in?

 

[Derec]

So your solution is to deny them authorization to present their cases,

They admit, when talking to media, that that have no cases, that they are migrating for economic reason and not because they have a legitimate asylum claim.
It's like with mass migration into Europe. All these migrants apply for asylum because that's a way to stay in Europe for years and often indefinitely even if they have no legitimate case. It's fraud.
Asylum was meant to protect people forced to flee because of governmental persecution. It was not meant to facilitate large-scale immigration as is being done now.

then shoot them if they throw rocks in protest against that denial?

Thrown rocks can injure. They are not a legitimate form of protest. Maybe shooting them for it is too harsh, but anybody engaged in violence against border guards should not be allowed into the country.

I'd prefer to send a bunch of immigration judges down to the border crossings and hear them out. What's the risk in that?

It's certainly better than allowing them all in, so they can disappear into one of many sanctuary cities and live and work as illegal aliens.
Mass migrants are making a mockery of the asylum system, both here and in Europe

By the way, if they tell newspapers that they are migrating so they can build a house for their mother in Honduras, that should be taken as evidence that it's a bogus asylum claim.

 

[Derec]

The people in the SCARE-avan could tell you if they were afforded the chance.

They can't stop yapping about it to the media. The stories are always the same: no work, low wages, want to send money back to family. Typical economic migrants, not people fleeing for their lives.

They are humans and probably each have a unique story.

Yes, they are human, which means they are more than capable of duplicity and lying. Asylum fraud is a real thing.

With the elections done, the right wing fearmongers have no further use for it - not a peep about it from them since Tuesday. The law provides that they should be heard if they make it to US soil - legally or otherwise. So you'll have to wait to hear their stories.

It's a bad policy that allows them to claim asylum even if they enter illegally and get caught. They should not get to double-dip. Trump just changed that policy but ACLU is suing, unfortunately.
Also, they should not get to live in America for years while their cases are adjudicated. Maybe we can house them on Nauru or something.

That will depend on what each of their stories actually are - they're not a monolith or an army. But it's no longer a concern, now that the SCARE-avan has outlived its usefulness as a panic-driver for right wing voters.

They have made a pit stop in Mexico City. So there was not that much to report for the last week or so. Now they are leaving Mexico City and I expect more coverage again.

Trumpism has been dealt a major smackdown, and there is little profit in telling the base that they are such wimps that their country will be "overrun" by a group that US citizens outnumber by around 300,000 to 1 at the very worst.

That's a fallacy. It ignores the pull effect this Caravan will have if successful. Think of what is happening to Europe right now.

This is the fastest disappearing "National Emergency" in history, thanks to the impeccable leadership of Fuckface von Clownstick..

I get it. You hate Trump. That doesn't mean that anything he opposes is automatically good.

 

[Derec]

The people trying to break into Israel intend violence. The people in the caravan want jobs. Big difference.

So you admit that they are not "fleeing for their lives" and thus are not legitimate asylum seekers but are rather illegal economic migrants?
Ok, do not shoot them (unless they graduate to more lethal weapons), but anybody engaging in violence against border patrol or sneaking in illegally should be deported back to Honduras immediately and barred from ever seeking any legal status in the US.

 

[Derec]

What an idiotic cartoon. First, it's not "bigotry" to oppose unrestricted mass migration and open borders. Second, it was not 6 year old girls who pelted Mexican border guards with rocks when they were told to wait, but rather young adults. And tanks are not being deployed to the border anyway, although maybe US should buy some of those Israeli tear gas drones ...

 

[Derec]

The fact they are hiking to the US and demanding to be let in.

First, the US is not the world. Second, asking for asylum is not a demand. Would you like amend your claim so that it is consistent with what you think?

They demanded to be let through the Guatemale-Mexico border, and enforced that demand with violence. Then they demanded to be taken to the US border in buses (a demand which was luckily denied). They do a lot of demanding.

And let's stop with that "asylum seeker" nonsense. We all know that this is just a pretext to be able to get into US.

- - - Updated - - -

What do you think some of these Hondurans think the world owes them?

Immigration into US.

 

[Politesse]

Not to say that I mind, but do people really believe that everyone in this caravan intends to make a legal plea for asylum when they reach the border? This seems unlikely to me... if I were in the caravan, especially if I had my children with me, I would be trying to figure out how to get in illegally right about now. It is painfully obvious to anyone with access to a tv/radio/newspaper that making a legal request so while Trump is in power is both pointless and incredibly likely to end with the blatant kidnapping of your children. If not their outright murder by a trigger-happy national guard. Like hell would I "trust to hope" with the stakes that high. I'm sure some will, but others must be playing a smarter game by now, hanging back in Mexico and waiting for a better moment.

And I so do not blame them. Following the law only makes sense when the laws are just and fairly enforced. I owe no loyalty to any regime that doesn't feel any reciprocal sense of civil responsibility to me.

 

[skepticalbip]

What an idiotic cartoon. First, it's not "bigotry" to oppose unrestricted mass migration and open borders. Second, it was not 6 year old girls who pelted Mexican border guards with rocks when they were told to wait, but rather young adults. And tanks are not being deployed to the border anyway, although maybe US should buy some of those Israeli tear gas drones ...

Political cartoons are about extreme exaggerations. The other side could easily present a counter political cartoon with five Barney Fife like border guards armed with fly-swatters facing an uncountable mob of angry military age males armed with stones and clubs screaming, "get out of the way and let us in... OR ELSE."

 

[Derec]

It's the Republicans that have become the snowflakes. They are trembling in fear of no longer having a white majority country. I look forward to it because I love living among people from all different cultures. The more diverse the better, and I'm white. I grew up in a neighborhood of immigrants, primarily Italian and Polish. We all got along.

The big problem with that is the demonization of white people among for example black supremacists. That kind of racism is given a free pass in the US and it will grow stronger the less numerous white people are in the US. Already whites are discriminated against due to "affirmative action" policies. It will be impossible to reverse these policies once blacks and hispanics, main beneficiaries of racial preference policies, are the majority.
Or look to South Africa, where a law has been passed recently to disown white farmers.

If not for all that, you would be right - it would not matter which groups are in the majority.

Three of my great grand parents and all four of my husband's grandparents were immigrants. They came from Poland, Ireland, Switzerland, Syria and Lebanon. They all contributed to the country in different ways. And, Derec, they all came in during the late 19th and early 20th Century, not the 16th Century.

What does that question have to do with what the correct immigration policy is for 21st century? I am not against all immigration, but this open borders BS is just that. We should not allow people to demand to be let in just because they showed up at the border.
There are many more people who would like to immigrate into US than US needs as immigrants.
Obviously then, there must exist restrictions on number of immigrants. We also should vet for skills (esp. ability to speak and read/write English) and exclude those with serious criminal and extremist backgrounds. That requires orderly immigration where people apply for visas, not just march to the border.

I welcome the caravan.

Well, I do not. For all the reasons I enumerated above.

Those who apply will be very heavily screened and most will be sent back.

That's an illusion. They will all be let in and the process can take years, especially given how many cases there are. And since virtually all these asylum claims are bogus, the claimants will plan to disappear into one of sanctuary cities and live and work illegally, sending money home.

Our disgusting president plans on separating children from their parents again, something I consider inhumane.

Note that a court made it illegal to detain them together. The only alternative is to release them into the US, but that's exactly their plan - use a bogus claim of asylum to get into the US. And it is very difficult to deport illegals once they are in the US already - we have some 10-20 million illegals already!

We currently have more job openings than unemployed people.

Most of them require skills. Not some Honduran peasant with 6th grade education and no English skills.

This will only get worse as my generation continues to retire. Who is going to fill all those jobs?

I do not see much growth of unskilled labor in the coming decades, esp. with automation. There will be some need for immigration, but there are many people who want to immigrate legally that we do not need random people marching to the border to meet the need. We can be selective.

I've worked and gone to school with people who emigrated from Mexico and Central America, and one from Haiti. I enjoyed working with all of them.

That's a fallacy. Of course there are good people from everywhere in the world. Only a bigot would deny that. That does not translate into unrestricted migration from these (or any other) areas being a good idea.

It sickens me to see what America has become. We were never perfect, far from it, but I've never seen as much hate and prejudice as I've seen since 2016.

What sickens me is this polarization. If you are not for open borders, you must be a bigot. If you support Obamacare, you must be a socialist. It's from both sides, and it sucks.
We need reasonable immigration policies, and name-calling everybody who is for any restrictions on migration is counterproductive.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And the Caravan is moving on from Mexico City.
Migrant caravan departs Mexico City as new caravans merge to reach capital


By the way, ACLU is ridiculous on this. If any of them have legit asylum reasons (hardly doubtful) they should present themselves at ports of entry. What ACLU and other leftists demand is that illegals should be able to cross illegally and only apply for asylum (fraudulently) if they get caught. I.e. they want it both ways.

You are still reading conservative crap.

The border officials are not accepting asylum applications.

 

[Politesse]

We need reasonable immigration policies, and name-calling everybody who is for any restrictions on migration is counterproductive.

And this, at least, I can agree with. I favor open borders, but that isn't necessarily the same thing as allowing unregulated immigration. The current system is very inconsistent, and results in victimization and exploitatuon of immigrants as often as it helps them. I don't think racism is the only possible reason to see illegal immigration as a threat to civil order.

But it is also obvious to me that more than just sensible immigration policy is at issue when one ethnic group is being consistently and nearly exclusively singled out as "the problem" while other bad actors get a pass.

 

[untermensche]

What an idiotic cartoon. First, it's not "bigotry" to oppose unrestricted mass migration and open borders. Second, it was not 6 year old girls who pelted Mexican border guards with rocks when they were told to wait, but rather young adults. And tanks are not being deployed to the border anyway, although maybe US should buy some of those Israeli tear gas drones ...

That's a great political cartoon that captures the essence of what is happening.

The most powerful nation to ever exist has a president that is a disturbed bigoted ignorant fear monger.

What exactly would happen if this tiny band of unarmed homeless and hungry migrants just walked right into the US?

We could not absorb them?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

What an idiotic cartoon. First, it's not "bigotry" to oppose unrestricted mass migration and open borders. Second, it was not 6 year old girls who pelted Mexican border guards with rocks when they were told to wait, but rather young adults. And tanks are not being deployed to the border anyway, although maybe US should buy some of those Israeli tear gas drones ...

What an idiotic post. First, Trump is in fact a bigot. And second, you are being literal.

 

[Axulus]

They can't stop yapping about it to the media. The stories are always the same: no work, low wages, want to send money back to family. Typical economic migrants, not people fleeing for their lives.

Derec, this is such bullshit that you repeat over and over:

In Gang-Ridden Honduras, Growing Old is a Privilege, Not a Right

I arrived here to continue a project I had begun in 2015 documenting the mass migration of Hondurans making the perilous journey towards the United States. Time and time again, fleeing Honduran families explained in harrowing detail the precise moment when life in the country was no longer an option: An imminent threat against their lives at the whim of a dominant gang, a workplace shuttered by impossible extortion quotas imposed by sicarios, or simply being run out by the persistent crossfire in the city peripheries.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...uras-gang-violence-migration-corruption-boys/

Of course, they are also going to want to make a living after leaving their gang riddled and corrupt homeland if given a choice. There is zero indication this is their primary or sole reason for most of them.

Additionally:

Some caravan members decided to stay in Mexico. Of the 1,200 who were reported in the caravan at the beginning of its journey, a little over 200 came to the U.S. border together to request asylum.

But, Mexico may not be a safe place for everyone fleeing persecution in other countries.

Certain groups of people — including the LGTBQ community, people with indigenous heritage, and foreigners in general — frequently report persecution in Mexico and seek asylum from Mexico itself. Some Central Americans report being followed by the gangs they fled back home through Mexico.

Organizations that monitor Mexico’s adherence to its own asylum laws have found human rights violations and failures by immigration officials to follow the process.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-safe-country-20180518-story,amp.html

This is referring to the April caravan. Most of them did stay in Mexico.

 

[laughing dog]

They demanded to be let through the Guatemale-Mexico border, and enforced that demand with violence. Then they demanded to be taken to the US border in buses (a demand which was luckily denied). They do a lot of demanding.

And a lot of walking as well.

And let's stop with that "asylum seeker" nonsense. We all know that this is just a pretext to be able to get into US.

We, and especially you, do not know that at all. You confuse biased assumptions with fact.

Immigration into US.

That makes no sense - why would they think the WORLD owes them that?

 

[untermensche]

The way this silver spoon ignorant president feels about these migrants is how he feels about the poor in the US.

Something that should just go away.

 

[fast]

This is what, twice now that you've said they're unarmed?

 

[untermensche]

Who you talking to?

Or are you just talking to voices in your head?

Do you see this as an invasion?

Should we be worried?