Parenting Megathread

[Rhea]

I agree about tailoring reactions to kids. My daughter was very upset because she did poorly on a test. Nearly in tears. I said we could work on the material together. She cried, “Why aren’t you mad? Why aren’t you yelling at me? You always go mad when brother had a bad grade!” I replied, “because you already yelled at yourself. You don’t need me to. He did. Does.”

 

[Keith&Co.]

Yeah, my Oldest and Tallest went to pieces if we were mad at them. My sister and youngest just figured punishment was the price of doing business. 'I got what i wanted, and now i sit in time out... deal.'

Until we started charging fines. Money was a different issue for Youngest.

 

[Rhea]

Great advice I read in a book called I Can Problem Solve (get this book it has magic inside) was in getting little kids (really little, toddler to kindergarten) to stop interrupting. By asking them a question that makes them understand, they gain the perspective required for patience.

Mom: on phone yakyakyak
Kid: Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Mom: Dear kid, can I listen to you and isten to the phone at the SAME TIME?
Kid: No.
Mom: Then can you do something DIFFERENT while I am on the phone?
Kid: got it. Different. Mom can’t do that at the Same time.

And they go away understanding you are limited. It was amazing. And then you get back with them later.

I really liked that book (and no doubt the website has lots of good too) as it gave specific dialogues that got into the heads of HOW kids think and provided what they craved (information) in a language they understood.

 

[rousseau]

Great advice I read in a book called I Can Problem Solve (get this book it has magic inside) was in getting little kids (really little, toddler to kindergarten) to stop interrupting. By asking them a question that makes them understand, they gain the perspective required for patience.

Mom: on phone yakyakyak
Kid: Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Mom: Dear kid, can I listen to you and isten to the phone at the SAME TIME?
Kid: No.
Mom: Then can you do something DIFFERENT while I am on the phone?
Kid: got it. Different. Mom can’t do that at the Same time.

And they go away understanding you are limited. It was amazing. And then you get back with them later.

I really liked that book (and no doubt the website has lots of good too) as it gave specific dialogues that got into the heads of HOW kids think and provided what they craved (information) in a language they understood.

That was one of the big things I picked up from The Whole Brain Child - perspective.

To a lot of parents the things that small kids do don't seem to make any sense, but in actuality they make a lot of sense coming from the frame of reference of a small person with no understanding or context. So a part of assuaging their fears is giving them that context.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Great advice I read in a book called I Can Problem Solve (get this book it has magic inside) was in getting little kids (really little, toddler to kindergarten) to stop interrupting. By asking them a question that makes them understand, they gain the perspective required for patience.

Mom: on phone yakyakyak
Kid: Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Mom: Dear kid, can I listen to you and isten to the phone at the SAME TIME?
Kid: No.
Mom: Then can you do something DIFFERENT while I am on the phone?
Kid: got it. Different. Mom can’t do that at the Same time.

And they go away understanding you are limited. It was amazing. And then you get back with them later.

I really liked that book (and no doubt the website has lots of good too) as it gave specific dialogues that got into the heads of HOW kids think and provided what they craved (information) in a language they understood.

And of course, kids being kids... or my kid among others, will interrupt again in the future, despite knowing that Mommy or Daddy can't talk to two people at the same time. "Oh... sorry." Get that so much!

Regardless, as you previously noted, you are raising individuals, not a group of children, so that requires tailoring, patience, and knowing your child(ren)'s tells.

 

[Toni]

Great advice I read in a book called I Can Problem Solve (get this book it has magic inside) was in getting little kids (really little, toddler to kindergarten) to stop interrupting. By asking them a question that makes them understand, they gain the perspective required for patience.

Mom: on phone yakyakyak
Kid: Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Mom: Dear kid, can I listen to you and isten to the phone at the SAME TIME?
Kid: No.
Mom: Then can you do something DIFFERENT while I am on the phone?
Kid: got it. Different. Mom can’t do that at the Same time.

And they go away understanding you are limited. It was amazing. And then you get back with them later.

I really liked that book (and no doubt the website has lots of good too) as it gave specific dialogues that got into the heads of HOW kids think and provided what they craved (information) in a language they understood.

And of course, kids being kids... or my kid among others, will interrupt again in the future, despite knowing that Mommy or Daddy can't talk to two people at the same time. "Oh... sorry." Get that so much!

Regardless, as you previously noted, you are raising individuals, not a group of children, so that requires tailoring, patience, and knowing your child(ren)'s tells.

Yes, you are raising individual kids. But if you are raising more than one child, and especially if you are raising more than two children, you are also raising a group of children.

I had not really thought of it that way, to be honest, until my kids went off to college and had room mates and then came home with stories of roommates who basically didn't know how to share....a bathroom or a kitchen or any space at all. And who had no concept of the fact that their actions/inactions affected others in any way at all and furthermore did not care at all about how what they did/did not do affected other people.

My parenting was not perfect and my kids are not perfect but they know how to take turns, share space and take responsibility and how to get along with other people. Including the introverts and the one who is probably high functioning on the Asperger's spectrum.

This is not an argument that everybody should have multiple children. I think everybody should choose for themselves how many children, if any, they wish to raise. Full stop.

But if you are raising multiple children, you are also raising them as a group and not merely a collection of individuals. Having been raised by parents who basically saw the 2nd through the 4th as somewhat less good copies of the first, with identical needs/wants/dreams/desires, I really strove to raise my kids as individuals. It was not planned that they would also learn to be part of a group as a fully functioning member, capable of looking after themselves and on occasion, prodding others to do their share as well. That was simply a happy bi-product of being raised in a group.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I neve went to college, but i did observe sailors who were away from home for the first time. And helpless.

One guy washed a black uniform with a white uniform, two cups of Tide and one cup of bleach. Flooded the laundry room with suds, and became the proud owner of two sets of greys.
Wife saw similar things when she joined.
So all our kids can clean a bathroom, do laundry, write a shopping list, cook a meal, load a dishwasher, all as part of normal expectations.

Started with easy stuff, like frozen chicken and frozen fries, then when they got bored with that, they asked us for more challenging recipes.

 

[Rhea]

I agree with teaching them enough to not be an annoying roommate or a helpless spectator to problems. I have always made my kids be the one to check in at doctor’s office wile I stand behind, I make them step up to the motor vehicle counter, and even when very young made them ask the librarian themselves if they wanted help. They seem to have some relief compared to friends when faced with stuff. When they got their licenses, I taught them how to exchange papers and take photos in an accident, change a tire and fill fluids. And yeah, how to share and make space for others in their house. Because life is hard enough without having to navigate people who are mad at you and you don’t know why.

 

[southernhybrid]

I only had one child, but my world didn't evolve around him and he was taught to share and be kind to others from a very early age. I wish my grandchildren were as well behaved as my son was. Since I hate it when grandparents interfere, I will always remain silent regardless of what I think might be parenting mistakes. It's easy because i only see them once a year. I've noticed that the maternal grandmother seems to feel free to correct the grandkids, but my daughter in law would be upset with me if I opened my mouth, so I don't. I think the maternal grandmother often has an advantage, especially if she has a close relationship with her own daughter. Plus in our case, we live too far away to maintain a very close relationship. Oh well.


It's also a good idea, imo, to have your children take responsibility with things like cleaning their rooms, and doing the laundry, at least by the time they reach puberty. When my son was about 13 or 14, I told him that he had to do his own laundry. From that day forward, I never did his laundry again, or cleaned his room or bathroom. If it was messy, it was his problem. Before he got married, he kept his first apartment very neat and clean, so I assume that it helped.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

I am raising 2 kids, one of whom is deaf.

When I met them, 4 and 5, the deaf one was treated as the centre of the universe and the hearing one was basically spare parts.

He was quite independent and readily learnt independence skills, but it seemed to me an unhealthy independence, as if he was used to viewing the rest of the world as a spectator and unused to being cared for. The deaf one didn't understand that there are other people in the world to be considered, and I could understand why.

It is taking me an unconscionably long time to get them to meet in the middle, they have both come to regard it as power game to get other people to do stuff for them. It doesn't help that their father rarely stirs from his TV if he is not at work. He is modelling selfishness for them like a textbook. The older one said to me a few months ago "Of course I sit around doing nothing, I'm a male aren't I?"

I don't feel that I am without resources in this, but I am deathly afraid of stuffing it up and I feel I am fighting an uphill battle.

Oddly, I wasn't as hesitant in raising my own son and he, poor soul, had all the disadvantages of being my "learner driver" kid.

 

[Toni]

I am raising 2 kids, one of whom is deaf.

When I met them, 4 and 5, the deaf one was treated as the centre of the universe and the hearing one was basically spare parts.

He was quite independent and readily learnt independence skills, but it seemed to me an unhealthy independence, as if he was used to viewing the rest of the world as a spectator and unused to being cared for. The deaf one didn't understand that there are other people in the world to be considered, and I could understand why.

It is taking me an unconscionably long time to get them to meet in the middle, they have both come to regard it as power game to get other people to do stuff for them. It doesn't help that their father rarely stirs from his TV if he is not at work. He is modelling selfishness for them like a textbook. The older one said to me a few months ago "Of course I sit around doing nothing, I'm a male aren't I?"

I don't feel that I am without resources in this, but I am deathly afraid of stuffing it up and I feel I am fighting an uphill battle.

Oddly, I wasn't as hesitant in raising my own son and he, poor soul, had all the disadvantages of being my "learner driver" kid.

It is excruciatingly difficult to raise someone else’s kids, especially when the parent is present and non-participating. Except as a bad role model.

I understand why you are reluctant to abandon these kids—who are lucky to have you but you cannot continue to stuff things inside. It isn’t fooling the kids and it is teaching them that you can be pushed into not considering your own needs and feelings. It will become part of the power play for one thing. For another it teaches them that their father is to be feared and apparently that this is a rightful role for males.

I don’t know the right answers for you. It sounds like an intolerable situation—and that your choices are to tolerate it or to abandon /be let go and the kids would face worse. There must be some way to get some intervention for these kids.

 

[crazyfingers]

In 2004 my wife and I adopted 3 siblings from state foster care/ Department of Children and Families (DCF). They were Boy 18 month, Boy 2.5 years and Girl 3.75 years old. Turns out all of them had/have mental illnesses. The oldest one has/had Reactive Attachment Disorder and was kicking holes in her wall by the age of 6. She was hospitalized 19 times for violent behaviors.

The middle kid has autism and in his early years would kick and bite up to the age or around 8.

The youngest has been traumatized by the two olders and has severe anxiety and ADHD.

2007 to 2015 were hell on earth. Things are now only just semi tolerable at home.

The worst part is that everyone judges the parents. I recall in 2010 our daughter was so violent to us and her siblings that we had to keep her away from them and not let her play with them unsupervised as she would be violent towards them. She told the school that she was not allowed to play with her brothers. They filed a 51A for abuse and neglect on us. Fortunately we had surrounded ourselves with social workers by that time and DCF roundly flogged the school. But it takes a toll.

Massachusetts supposedly has one of the best mental health systems. But best does not mean anything close to good.

In many ways DCF reminds me of the religious right. The religious right wants all babies to get born but as so as they are born they will happily let kids die of no healthcare or food. DCF wants you do adopt their foster kids but as soon as they are adopted all they do is blame parents when the adopted kids have issues that were caused by the lack of care that they received while in DCF custody.

Anyway, things are a bit better now. The oldest is 18 and finally is no longer violent. The middle boy with autism is probably the nest adjusted of the three and the youngest is finally less anxious and is reacting better to his ADHD meds. At the very least the fear level in the our home is down significantly.

Overall, it has not been a good experience. If I knew what I know now back in 2004, I can not honestly say whether I would do it again or not.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I agree with teaching them enough to not be an annoying roommate or a helpless spectator to problems. I have always made my kids be the one to check in at doctor’s office wile I stand behind, I make them step up to the motor vehicle counter, and even when very young made them ask the librarian themselves if they wanted help. They seem to have some relief compared to friends when faced with stuff. When they got their licenses, I taught them how to exchange papers and take photos in an accident, change a tire and fill fluids. And yeah, how to share and make space for others in their house. Because life is hard enough without having to navigate people who are mad at you and you don’t know why.

My kids called everyone except their grandparents by first name, including us. Visitors often thought I was a stepdad. Just wanted them to learn that they were on an equal basis with everyone. Probably had something to do with my being raised in a very religious family where some people were more important than other people because of what they did for a living.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

In 2004 my wife and I adopted 3 siblings from state foster care/ Department of Children and Families (DCF). They were Boy 18 month, Boy 2.5 years and Girl 3.75 years old. Turns out all of them had/have mental illnesses. The oldest one has/had Reactive Attachment Disorder and was kicking holes in her wall by the age of 6. She was hospitalized 19 times for violent behaviors.

The middle kid has autism and in his early years would kick and bite up to the age or around 8.

The youngest has been traumatized by the two olders and has severe anxiety and ADHD.

2007 to 2015 were hell on earth. Things are now only just semi tolerable at home.

The worst part is that everyone judges the parents. I recall in 2010 our daughter was so violent to us and her siblings that we had to keep her away from them and not let her play with them unsupervised as she would be violent towards them. She told the school that she was not allowed to play with her brothers. They filed a 51A for abuse and neglect on us. Fortunately we had surrounded ourselves with social workers by that time and DCF roundly flogged the school. But it takes a toll.

Massachusetts supposedly has one of the best mental health systems. But best does not mean anything close to good.

In many ways DCF reminds me of the religious right. The religious right wants all babies to get born but as so as they are born they will happily let kids die of no healthcare or food. DCF wants you do adopt their foster kids but as soon as they are adopted all they do is blame parents when the adopted kids have issues that were caused by the lack of care that they received while in DCF custody.

Anyway, things are a bit better now. The oldest is 18 and finally is no longer violent. The middle boy with autism is probably the nest adjusted of the three and the youngest is finally less anxious and is reacting better to his ADHD meds. At the very least the fear level in the our home is down significantly.

Overall, it has not been a good experience. If I knew what I know now back in 2004, I can not honestly say whether I would do it again or not.

I remember some of this as it was happening. Having gotten them towards a more stable adulthood I hope you give yourself credit.

I don't like to think of their lives if those 3 had stayed in public care.

 

[Toni]

In 2004 my wife and I adopted 3 siblings from state foster care/ Department of Children and Families (DCF). They were Boy 18 month, Boy 2.5 years and Girl 3.75 years old. Turns out all of them had/have mental illnesses. The oldest one has/had Reactive Attachment Disorder and was kicking holes in her wall by the age of 6. She was hospitalized 19 times for violent behaviors.

The middle kid has autism and in his early years would kick and bite up to the age or around 8.

The youngest has been traumatized by the two olders and has severe anxiety and ADHD.

2007 to 2015 were hell on earth. Things are now only just semi tolerable at home.

The worst part is that everyone judges the parents. I recall in 2010 our daughter was so violent to us and her siblings that we had to keep her away from them and not let her play with them unsupervised as she would be violent towards them. She told the school that she was not allowed to play with her brothers. They filed a 51A for abuse and neglect on us. Fortunately we had surrounded ourselves with social workers by that time and DCF roundly flogged the school. But it takes a toll.

Massachusetts supposedly has one of the best mental health systems. But best does not mean anything close to good.

In many ways DCF reminds me of the religious right. The religious right wants all babies to get born but as so as they are born they will happily let kids die of no healthcare or food. DCF wants you do adopt their foster kids but as soon as they are adopted all they do is blame parents when the adopted kids have issues that were caused by the lack of care that they received while in DCF custody.

Anyway, things are a bit better now. The oldest is 18 and finally is no longer violent. The middle boy with autism is probably the nest adjusted of the three and the youngest is finally less anxious and is reacting better to his ADHD meds. At the very least the fear level in the our home is down significantly.

Overall, it has not been a good experience. If I knew what I know now back in 2004, I can not honestly say whether I would do it again or not.

I cannot begin to know what to say to you. Thank you for taking in those children seems....pallid and lazy and condescending and in every way possible inadequate. I am so sorry that these children endured what they must have endured for the very earliest parts of their lives, the influences that I am guessing that drugs/alcohol/abuse/neglect played in their lives even before they were born. I am so sorry that you haven't had the support you and your family so much needed and deserved.

It does seem as though you've gotten the kids to this much better point,perhaps the best they could have gotten given their earliest circumstance. My hat's off to you.

 

[crazyfingers]

I've been trying to think what kind of advice to give parents and it's been hard. Kids are all different and ours are not typical.

I'd say that the biggest thing that I'd have done differently if I could go back in time doesn't have to do with how we managed the kids but the schools.

Our kids really needed therapeutic schooling. We went into IEP meetings with our army of social workers and therapists and the school Director of Student Services would attempt to insult these people, ignore evidence, blame us.

As I think back, this Director of Student services at the public school was a lot like Trump. Unfortunately at the time he intimidated us. We tried to play nice. Persuade him. But he bullied.

In hindsight we should have taken him early and frequently to the State Board of Education Appeals.

I recall that we finally got our oldest into a therapeutic school, after paying several tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket for residential schooling and had overwhelming evidence that she needed it. This guy had all the documents we had sent and we were in an IEP meeting and he had not shared any of this with the school personnel at the IEP meeting. They were flabbergasted that he had thrown them all under the bus. We finally started to stand up to his bullying. He claimed to be a Ph.D psychologist but continued to confuse our daughter's diagnosis/condition, with a treatment plan. His idiotic bluster was so clear.

The acrimony for Reactive Attachment Disorder is RAD. The treatment is Attachment Theory. He kept saying we could RAD our child if we wanted to.

It's like saying we could Autism our kid if we wanted to.

I finally said strait out in front of everyone at the IEP meeting that he was a fool not to know the difference between a diagnosis and a treatment. I think that that's when he realized that his bullying would no longer work, he appeared visibly nervous having been shown to be a fool in front of his staff, and we had all the cards in our hands.

We should have played hardball from the moment we knew that he was going to play hardball. Never, ever, let the school bully you. Hit back hard to get your kids what they need.

Beware though. I've read quite a few news stories of schools filing abuse and neglect claim against parents as a bullying tool. It's next to impossible to prove that the school knowingly lied so they can and do lie and make things up. Be sure to have your social workers and therapists to back you up.

And by the way, the State Board of Education Appeals forced the school to pay us back the several tens of thousands of dollars..

 

[Toni]

I've been trying to think what kind of advice to give parents and it's been hard. Kids are all different and ours are not typical.

I'd say that the biggest thing that I'd have done differently if I could go back in time doesn't have to do with how we managed the kids but the schools.

Our kids really needed therapeutic schooling. We went into IEP meetings with our army of social workers and therapists and the school Director of Student Services would attempt to insult these people, ignore evidence, blame us.

As I think back, this Director of Student services at the public school was a lot like Trump. Unfortunately at the time he intimidated us. We tried to play nice. Persuade him. But he bullied.

In hindsight we should have taken him early and frequently to the State Board of Education Appeals.

I recall that we finally got our oldest into a therapeutic school, after paying several tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket for residential schooling and had overwhelming evidence that she needed it. This guy had all the documents we had sent and we were in an IEP meeting and he had not shared any of this with the school personnel at the IEP meeting. They were flabbergasted that he had thrown them all under the bus. We finally started to stand up to his bullying. He claimed to be a Ph.D psychologist but continued to confuse our daughter's diagnosis/condition, with a treatment plan. His idiotic bluster was so clear.

The acrimony for Reactive Attachment Disorder is RAD. The treatment is Attachment Theory. He kept saying we could RAD our child if we wanted to.

It's like saying we could Autism our kid if we wanted to.

I finally said strait out in front of everyone at the IEP meeting that he was a fool not to know the difference between a diagnosis and a treatment. I think that that's when he realized that his bullying would no longer work, he appeared visibly nervous having been shown to be a fool in front of his staff, and we had all the cards in our hands.

We should have played hardball from the moment we knew that he was going to play hardball. Never, ever, let the school bully you. Hit back hard to get your kids what they need.

Beware though. I've read quite a few news stories of schools filing abuse and neglect claim against parents as a bullying tool. It's next to impossible to prove that the school knowingly lied so they can and do lie and make things up. Be sure to have your social workers and therapists to back you up.

And by the way, the State Board of Education Appeals forced the school to pay us back the several tens of thousands of dollars..

This is a tragic situation and unforgivable.

I will say that on occasion, I've had school administrators say some incredibly stupid things in order to try to avoid/pull the wool over the eyes of parents and school board members because what was being requested and what was desperately needed was desperately expensive and they were trying to avoid having to provide the same thing for all of the kids who needed it. Because of limited resources. The obvious solution is that these sorts of situations: a child obviously needs and requires a treatment/education plan that is far beyond the usual scope of the school's ability to provide should be provided these services and the money should come directly from the state, not from the school district's funds. I saw some movement towards that in my own district when there was a child with extraordinary physical needs (very profound physical disabilities, to the extent that it was difficult to even guess at the emotional/social, much less educational needs) was overwhelming the district's ability to provide meaningful services to the child. Obviously, your family's situation was different but the principle is the same. I actually advocate that the state pay directly rather than that the school district's budget be increased because it is hard for the district to give up funds once the child moves on from the district and so sometimes, they simply find a lot more uses for the money, even if it means determining that every boy in 2nd grade has ADD/ADHD.......

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

 

[Toni]

My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

What's going on in music class?

Could be related to a kid in the class, or the teacher or the subject. Or the teacher's perception of the kid's behavior or another kids' behavior.

I had at least one kid who was seen as a wonderful, brilliant, positive member of a class by one teacher and as Satan's right hand by another. For exactly the same behavior.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

What's going on in music class?

Could be related to a kid in the class, or the teacher or the subject. Or the teacher's perception of the kid's behavior or another kids' behavior.

I had at least one kid who was seen as a wonderful, brilliant, positive member of a class by one teacher and as Satan's right hand by another. For exactly the same behavior.

She seems to have more issues outside of class. But she is completely unpredictable. Sometimes she views herself as the executor of the rules and will be the enforcer. Other times she just acts out, have a great day and then she’ll snap.