• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Parenting Megathread

Rhea

Cyborg with a Tiara
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
13,237
Location
Recluse
Basic Beliefs
Humanist
All topics parenting: questions, advice, reflections, pontifications...

Sort of a, “what are you thinking about / what are you doing today” version of the peculiarities of being responsible for other humans.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
22,444
Location
Far Western Mass
Gender
Here.
Basic Beliefs
I'm here...
I watched a mother of two in the supermarket today.
Reminded my wife i wanted to name our first 'Knockitoff' to save time.
'Yes, yes,' she agreed. 'You were a visionary. They'd have axed us in our sleep, but it would have saved time.'
 

spikepipsqueak

My Brane Hertz
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
4,410
Location
Victoria
Basic Beliefs
Nil
There are days that I have needed this thread soooo much, to call on the experience and good sense of others.

Unfortunately, those were often the days that I didn't have two spare seconds to rub together or the ability for coherent thought to make the problem clear.

Nevertheless, I will be a regular.
 

Old Woman in Purple

Mad Quilter
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
15,544
Location
Chicagoland, IL
Gender
She/Her
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
I have one daughter, 24yo, still living at home, but working on getting her feet planted & financially independent. We've muddled thru somehow, successfully avoiding the whole serial killer thing... :D
Willing to put in my 2cents worth, if it'll help anyone....
 

Rhea

Cyborg with a Tiara
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
13,237
Location
Recluse
Basic Beliefs
Humanist
I find that it always helps. :) Through my parenting years, I typically find that in all advice there is something to be gained.

From that actual magic (“here’s how I taught my kids to not interrupt me,”. Holy crap, that was MAGICAL!)
To the new way to say something you’ve been saying all along (Oh, that is nice to add to my repertoire, it will allow my kids to hear it differently for once, LOL)
To the object lesson (h’okaaaay, that is definitely something I will avoid like the plague)
There is always something to be learned
 

thebeave

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2001
Messages
3,435
Location
Silicon Valley, CA
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Not a parent, but the subject is of interest to me, largely because I disagree with how people raise their kids these days. :p

Any parents here raising "free range kids"? Which in my childhood, were known as "normal kids"?
 

spikepipsqueak

My Brane Hertz
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
4,410
Location
Victoria
Basic Beliefs
Nil
I am raising an 8 and a 9yo, not my own.

I free range them as much as I can but the major obstacle to that is finding a big enough crow bar to pry them away from their devices. The poor little sods have become addicted to them because when I'm not there their father uses TV, Nintendos and computers to avoid interacting with them.



Hah! I was just in the "parenting subforum" discussion thread.

The discussion there reminded me that when my son was born I was concerned about the teenage years and "sex'n'drugs'n'rock'n'roll" and all the ramifications.

I had been in the workforce, and not in contact with much in the way of young families.

Colic and sleep deprivation and projectile pooing and childhood illnesses and discipline and pocket money and safety issues and bullying at school and food intolerances and questions of honesty and integrity and growing pains - physical and mental, and transport hassles and a neglectful father all came as a nasty shock to me long before I had to deal with the stuff I was braced for.

Then I found I wasn't really braced for it.
 
Last edited:

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Mine are all grown, self supporting and living independently. We survived each other.

Truthfully, I loved raising my kids. Sometimes it was exhausting and overwhelming and frustrating. Sometimes scary. I’m proud of all of them. They’re really good people. I’m grateful they were mostly raised before Facebook and Snapchat and Instagram and all of that. Really grateful.

They were raised with some restrictions I didn’t have and without some restrictions I grew up under but that’s more a function of different circumstances than vastly different parenting philosophies.

When my kids were young, my parents were extremely sparing with advice. The two things that my father told me I found very valuable: Be consistent. And your no needs to be no and not maybe. I found those to be very valuable pieces of advice. It made me very sparing with my no’s. My dad was correct: My kids knew they could trust me and what I said.
 

bigfield

the baby-eater
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
4,571
Location
Straya
Basic Beliefs
yeah nah
I don't have children but my partner and I are planning to start fairly soon (once we actually have a home to live in).

So someone will be actually using your advice. Please don't let this thread become a shitfight about competing parenting techniques.
 

spikepipsqueak

My Brane Hertz
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
4,410
Location
Victoria
Basic Beliefs
Nil
Not to start it up again, rather to inoculate us against the possibility.

Remember that we lost some good people in the Battle of Smacking Hill and the Circumcision War.

If anybody wants to address those issues - Just Say No.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,452
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
Oi! School is absolutely nuts! My daughter is in Kindergarten and they expect so much! My daughter's teacher has to deal with kids that can handle basic arithmetic... and a student or two that barely knows the alphabet! How do you do that?!

We received one homework assignment and I actually commented on it being poorly formed... for Kindergartners, expecting them to pull critical thinking skills out of their rumps, instead of it being stepped out for them. I get frustrated having to figure out if my daughter should or shouldn't be able to do some of this stuff. I'm all for pushing children, but the level expected... and my daughter's stubbornness (despite being very bright), just create serious first world problems.
I don't have children but my partner and I are planning to start fairly soon (once we actually have a home to live in).

So someone will be actually using your advice.
The best advice is that advice can be absolutely worthless as so many children react in so many different ways to so many different methods of parenting. The best thing to say is "Yeah... children... oi!"
Please don't let this thread become a shitfight about competing parenting techniques.
Dude, this is the Internet. :D
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
22,444
Location
Far Western Mass
Gender
Here.
Basic Beliefs
I'm here...
for Kindergartners, expecting them to pull critical thinking skills out of their rumps, instead of it being stepped out for them. I get frustrated having to figure out if my daughter should or shouldn't be able to do some of this stuff. I'm all for pushing children, but the level expected...
Deep breath.
Don't get frustrated until you see the grading rubric.
It could be just exposing them to the possibilities, to see what they can do, or maybe part of a before/after evaluation.

It's possible that there will be no penalty for not being able to do this at this point in their academic explorations.

If it's Kindergarten, the teacher knows they haven't been taught shit in previous years. So ask 'what did your teacher say about doing this?'

It could also be a test of you. See if you're participating, see if you're doing her homework for her.

So, figure out of it's a 'see what you can do' assignment or 'CIRCLE OF LIFE!' culling of the weak, before you freak. Don t make it more significant than it needs to be.
 

rousseau

Contributor
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
12,280
I don't have children but my partner and I are planning to start fairly soon (once we actually have a home to live in).

So someone will be actually using your advice. Please don't let this thread become a shitfight about competing parenting techniques.

We're a long way off of it being relevant, but I read The Whole Brain Child in January which I found pretty good. They did leave out the extraversion spectrum, though, which I think is an underrated aspect of understanding kids anyone. In that case Quiet by Susan Cain should suffice.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Oi! School is absolutely nuts! My daughter is in Kindergarten and they expect so much! My daughter's teacher has to deal with kids that can handle basic arithmetic... and a student or two that barely knows the alphabet! How do you do that?!

We received one homework assignment and I actually commented on it being poorly formed... for Kindergartners, expecting them to pull critical thinking skills out of their rumps, instead of it being stepped out for them. I get frustrated having to figure out if my daughter should or shouldn't be able to do some of this stuff. I'm all for pushing children, but the level expected... and my daughter's stubbornness (despite being very bright), just create serious first world problems.
I don't have children but my partner and I are planning to start fairly soon (once we actually have a home to live in).

So someone will be actually using your advice.
The best advice is that advice can be absolutely worthless as so many children react in so many different ways to so many different methods of parenting. The best thing to say is "Yeah... children... oi!"
Please don't let this thread become a shitfight about competing parenting techniques.
Dude, this is the Internet. :D

I never got very far with commenting on how poorly assignments were laid out. It's more useful to ask short, direct questions in one sentence. Make sure you don't imply criticism of the teacher. As you said: they've got everything from kids who don't know the alphabet (or colors or how to count) to kids who are reading well and doing basic (or more) math. Just: How long do you want this report to be? That sort of thing....

One of my kids had a teacher who was much sought after because of how much she pushed the kids. In second grade. Anyway, she assigned research papers. Yes: research papers on various aspects of Japanese culture. At the time, there were very few resources at an elementary school level (any grade) on Japanese culture at the local or school library. There was no internet. My son was assigned a topic because he was home sick when they were chosen and because of his illness, he had less time to complete the project. The entire class project was presented at a 'traditional Japanese tea ceremony' for parents and kindergarteners. (No, no Japanese or Japanese American students or staff at the school.) My husband attended as our younger child caught what the older one had and he came home shaking his head. It was apparent that our child had actually done his report himself, with a little help from his parents locating books in the library. Other kids' reports were done by their parents. I protested: some of those kids were really smart! They could have done it themselves! My husband just laughed and shook his head: Then why couldn't they read or pronounce the words in their report? OTOH, I worked with some elementary school kids as part of a gifted/talented group and one second grade girl did produce a report with a bibliography in correct form. The report was 3 sentences long and I'm sure she wrote it. Her parents both taught at the local university and I'm sure helped her with the format for the bibliography.

Anyway: your kids' homework is for your kid to do. You can help but it shouldn't stress either of you out. Don't be one of those parents who does all the work for your kid.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,452
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
Oi! School is absolutely nuts! My daughter is in Kindergarten and they expect so much! My daughter's teacher has to deal with kids that can handle basic arithmetic... and a student or two that barely knows the alphabet! How do you do that?!

We received one homework assignment and I actually commented on it being poorly formed... for Kindergartners, expecting them to pull critical thinking skills out of their rumps, instead of it being stepped out for them. I get frustrated having to figure out if my daughter should or shouldn't be able to do some of this stuff. I'm all for pushing children, but the level expected... and my daughter's stubbornness (despite being very bright), just create serious first world problems.
The best advice is that advice can be absolutely worthless as so many children react in so many different ways to so many different methods of parenting. The best thing to say is "Yeah... children... oi!"
Dude, this is the Internet. :D

I never got very far with commenting on how poorly assignments were laid out. It's more useful to ask short, direct questions in one sentence. Make sure you don't imply criticism of the teacher. As you said: they've got everything from kids who don't know the alphabet (or colors or how to count) to kids who are reading well and doing basic (or more) math. Just: How long do you want this report to be? That sort of thing....
The teacher noted to my wife that she knew that that portion was over the kids heads, and I was diplomatic in my comment. It asked to identify what portions of a paragraph were relevant to a mathematical question, also embedded in the paragraph. Had they just started off with the mathematical question, then provided the paragraph, then the students would have had a target, and then it would be easier to parse from there.

Anyway: your kids' homework is for your kid to do. You can help but it shouldn't stress either of you out. Don't be one of those parents who does all the work for your kid.
Agreed! I don't do the work, I try to reorganize how questions may appear or teach methods of solving the specific type of problem. They obviously need to be able to solve the questions in the classroom.
 

James Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
3,574
Location
Texas
Basic Beliefs
Agnostic Atheist
Good thread.

My only offspring is full-grown, off to Boot Camp for the next few months.

But hardly a month goes by when I don't hear of someone's parental advice and think, "Dang, I wish I had thought of that twenty years ago."

A couple from one smart fellow I know:

When in a restaurant, he tells his kids, "You can order a soda to drink, but if you order water, I'll give you a dollar when we get home."

For Christmas, each kid gets just four presents: "Something you want. Something you need. Something to wear. Something to read."
 

southernhybrid

Contributor
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
6,532
Location
Georgia, US
Basic Beliefs
atheist
I only have one son, age 48, and he was extremely easy to raise, although he was never a good student until he went to college. My advice is not to worry too much about your kids' grades, as long as they graduate high school. My son was a computer nerd who taught himself how to program in machine language but the high school he attended didn't think he even had the skills to take a high school computer course. He barely passed a few of his courses. This was in the early 80s, btw, When he graduated from high school, I encouraged him to attend the local community college. That's when he started to bloom. He got excellent grades and received a AD in computer engineering technology. After working for a year, he went to a four year college and graduated with honors and a BSCE. He's been a successful programmer for over 20 years. So, my point again is not to stress out too much over your kid's grades. There are many options for a person with less than stellar grades, as long as you don't have your heart set on him/her attending an expensive prestigious university.

I also never mentioned that I'm the one who taught him how to read, when the highly rated elementary school he attended failed at that. Some children need one on one attention to learn the basics.

I think it's probably much easier to raise an only child because they think of parents as friends and they can't gang up against you with their siblings. :D Perhaps someone here could give advice on how to handle things like sibling rivalry. I don't think I was cut out to raise more than one.
 

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
6,556
Location
West Hollywood
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
When I was a new parent I received lots of advice. It surprised me how many people read up on being a parent. I was told things like, don't let your baby sleep in your bed, don't give them a pacifier, don't pick them up when they cry and then someone else would say the exact opposite, it's good to let them sleep in your bed etc etc. All I got from that was there are no hard and fast rules when dealing with an infant.

I think one of the best things you can teach your kids is to fend for themselves, let them take little risks and see how they get on before intervening. Let them watch TV if they want even if your busybody friend says that's a no no. Get them to bed early. Don't give them soda, candy and crap except at Halloween or keep it heavily regulated. And get them vaccinated.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Good thread.

My only offspring is full-grown, off to Boot Camp for the next few months.

But hardly a month goes by when I don't hear of someone's parental advice and think, "Dang, I wish I had thought of that twenty years ago."

A couple from one smart fellow I know:

When in a restaurant, he tells his kids, "You can order a soda to drink, but if you order water, I'll give you a dollar when we get home."

For Christmas, each kid gets just four presents: "Something you want. Something you need. Something to wear. Something to read."

For littler kids, I'd add something to cuddle. No matter what gender.

I also simply didn't have soda as an option, aside from maybe birthday parties and even then, most of the time, the kids invited were from families who avoided sodas so it was juice instead. Yeah, I know: no real food value in juice and lots of sugar but that wasn't the thinking in those days. In any case there's no carbonation in juice. Now, one of my kids developed a mean soda habit when he went to college. Not the others. Thing is, otherwise, he's not at all inclined to eat sweets or junk. Two of mine were really sugar freaks and we had to limit what was in the house very closely because they could survive 3 days on a single cookie. The other two just didn't have a sweet tooth at all. No idea why. Just wired differently, I guess.


Which brings up something else: Don't be afraid to tailor punishments or restrictions to the child. Two of my kids are pretty introverted. The other two are pretty extroverted. If you send an introvert to his/her room, they're like: cool! Even if the most exciting thing in their room is books and crayons and paper. So, you need to find something else. I made my introverts help me in the kitchen. Usually if they weren't behaving, what they really needed was some attention anyway and introverts naturally shy away from that, even if part of them craves/needs the attention, albeit in smaller doses than the extroverts. Both are pretty good cooks, which I just realized. The extroverts? If I restricted their access to their friends for however short a period of time, it was THE END OF THE WORLD. HONEST. Both seem to partner up with good cooks but don't cook much themselves. Oh, and their father is an excellent cook so they always had that role model. Make of that what you will.
 

Rhea

Cyborg with a Tiara
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
13,237
Location
Recluse
Basic Beliefs
Humanist
I agree about tailoring reactions to kids. My daughter was very upset because she did poorly on a test. Nearly in tears. I said we could work on the material together. She cried, “Why aren’t you mad? Why aren’t you yelling at me? You always go mad when brother had a bad grade!” I replied, “because you already yelled at yourself. You don’t need me to. He did. Does.”
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
22,444
Location
Far Western Mass
Gender
Here.
Basic Beliefs
I'm here...
Yeah, my Oldest and Tallest went to pieces if we were mad at them. My sister and youngest just figured punishment was the price of doing business. 'I got what i wanted, and now i sit in time out... deal.'

Until we started charging fines. Money was a different issue for Youngest.
 

Rhea

Cyborg with a Tiara
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
13,237
Location
Recluse
Basic Beliefs
Humanist
Great advice I read in a book called I Can Problem Solve (get this book it has magic inside) was in getting little kids (really little, toddler to kindergarten) to stop interrupting. By asking them a question that makes them understand, they gain the perspective required for patience.

Mom: on phone yakyakyak
Kid: Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Mom: Dear kid, can I listen to you and isten to the phone at the SAME TIME?
Kid: No.
Mom: Then can you do something DIFFERENT while I am on the phone?
Kid: got it. Different. Mom can’t do that at the Same time.

And they go away understanding you are limited. It was amazing. And then you get back with them later.

I really liked that book (and no doubt the website has lots of good too) as it gave specific dialogues that got into the heads of HOW kids think and provided what they craved (information) in a language they understood.
 

rousseau

Contributor
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
12,280
Great advice I read in a book called I Can Problem Solve (get this book it has magic inside) was in getting little kids (really little, toddler to kindergarten) to stop interrupting. By asking them a question that makes them understand, they gain the perspective required for patience.

Mom: on phone yakyakyak
Kid: Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Mom: Dear kid, can I listen to you and isten to the phone at the SAME TIME?
Kid: No.
Mom: Then can you do something DIFFERENT while I am on the phone?
Kid: got it. Different. Mom can’t do that at the Same time.

And they go away understanding you are limited. It was amazing. And then you get back with them later.

I really liked that book (and no doubt the website has lots of good too) as it gave specific dialogues that got into the heads of HOW kids think and provided what they craved (information) in a language they understood.

That was one of the big things I picked up from The Whole Brain Child - perspective.

To a lot of parents the things that small kids do don't seem to make any sense, but in actuality they make a lot of sense coming from the frame of reference of a small person with no understanding or context. So a part of assuaging their fears is giving them that context.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,452
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
Great advice I read in a book called I Can Problem Solve (get this book it has magic inside) was in getting little kids (really little, toddler to kindergarten) to stop interrupting. By asking them a question that makes them understand, they gain the perspective required for patience.

Mom: on phone yakyakyak
Kid: Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Mom: Dear kid, can I listen to you and isten to the phone at the SAME TIME?
Kid: No.
Mom: Then can you do something DIFFERENT while I am on the phone?
Kid: got it. Different. Mom can’t do that at the Same time.

And they go away understanding you are limited. It was amazing. And then you get back with them later.

I really liked that book (and no doubt the website has lots of good too) as it gave specific dialogues that got into the heads of HOW kids think and provided what they craved (information) in a language they understood.
And of course, kids being kids... or my kid among others, will interrupt again in the future, despite knowing that Mommy or Daddy can't talk to two people at the same time. :p "Oh... sorry." Get that so much!

Regardless, as you previously noted, you are raising individuals, not a group of children, so that requires tailoring, patience, and knowing your child(ren)'s tells.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Great advice I read in a book called I Can Problem Solve (get this book it has magic inside) was in getting little kids (really little, toddler to kindergarten) to stop interrupting. By asking them a question that makes them understand, they gain the perspective required for patience.

Mom: on phone yakyakyak
Kid: Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Mom: Dear kid, can I listen to you and isten to the phone at the SAME TIME?
Kid: No.
Mom: Then can you do something DIFFERENT while I am on the phone?
Kid: got it. Different. Mom can’t do that at the Same time.

And they go away understanding you are limited. It was amazing. And then you get back with them later.

I really liked that book (and no doubt the website has lots of good too) as it gave specific dialogues that got into the heads of HOW kids think and provided what they craved (information) in a language they understood.
And of course, kids being kids... or my kid among others, will interrupt again in the future, despite knowing that Mommy or Daddy can't talk to two people at the same time. :p "Oh... sorry." Get that so much!

Regardless, as you previously noted, you are raising individuals, not a group of children, so that requires tailoring, patience, and knowing your child(ren)'s tells.

Yes, you are raising individual kids. But if you are raising more than one child, and especially if you are raising more than two children, you are also raising a group of children.

I had not really thought of it that way, to be honest, until my kids went off to college and had room mates and then came home with stories of roommates who basically didn't know how to share....a bathroom or a kitchen or any space at all. And who had no concept of the fact that their actions/inactions affected others in any way at all and furthermore did not care at all about how what they did/did not do affected other people.

My parenting was not perfect and my kids are not perfect but they know how to take turns, share space and take responsibility and how to get along with other people. Including the introverts and the one who is probably high functioning on the Asperger's spectrum.

This is not an argument that everybody should have multiple children. I think everybody should choose for themselves how many children, if any, they wish to raise. Full stop.

But if you are raising multiple children, you are also raising them as a group and not merely a collection of individuals. Having been raised by parents who basically saw the 2nd through the 4th as somewhat less good copies of the first, with identical needs/wants/dreams/desires, I really strove to raise my kids as individuals. It was not planned that they would also learn to be part of a group as a fully functioning member, capable of looking after themselves and on occasion, prodding others to do their share as well. That was simply a happy bi-product of being raised in a group.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
22,444
Location
Far Western Mass
Gender
Here.
Basic Beliefs
I'm here...
I neve went to college, but i did observe sailors who were away from home for the first time. And helpless.

One guy washed a black uniform with a white uniform, two cups of Tide and one cup of bleach. Flooded the laundry room with suds, and became the proud owner of two sets of greys.
Wife saw similar things when she joined.
So all our kids can clean a bathroom, do laundry, write a shopping list, cook a meal, load a dishwasher, all as part of normal expectations.

Started with easy stuff, like frozen chicken and frozen fries, then when they got bored with that, they asked us for more challenging recipes.
 

Rhea

Cyborg with a Tiara
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
13,237
Location
Recluse
Basic Beliefs
Humanist
I agree with teaching them enough to not be an annoying roommate or a helpless spectator to problems. I have always made my kids be the one to check in at doctor’s office wile I stand behind, I make them step up to the motor vehicle counter, and even when very young made them ask the librarian themselves if they wanted help. They seem to have some relief compared to friends when faced with stuff. When they got their licenses, I taught them how to exchange papers and take photos in an accident, change a tire and fill fluids. And yeah, how to share and make space for others in their house. Because life is hard enough without having to navigate people who are mad at you and you don’t know why.
 

southernhybrid

Contributor
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
6,532
Location
Georgia, US
Basic Beliefs
atheist
I only had one child, but my world didn't evolve around him and he was taught to share and be kind to others from a very early age. I wish my grandchildren were as well behaved as my son was. :D Since I hate it when grandparents interfere, I will always remain silent regardless of what I think might be parenting mistakes. It's easy because i only see them once a year. ;) I've noticed that the maternal grandmother seems to feel free to correct the grandkids, but my daughter in law would be upset with me if I opened my mouth, so I don't. I think the maternal grandmother often has an advantage, especially if she has a close relationship with her own daughter. Plus in our case, we live too far away to maintain a very close relationship. Oh well.


It's also a good idea, imo, to have your children take responsibility with things like cleaning their rooms, and doing the laundry, at least by the time they reach puberty. When my son was about 13 or 14, I told him that he had to do his own laundry. From that day forward, I never did his laundry again, or cleaned his room or bathroom. If it was messy, it was his problem. Before he got married, he kept his first apartment very neat and clean, so I assume that it helped.
 

spikepipsqueak

My Brane Hertz
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
4,410
Location
Victoria
Basic Beliefs
Nil
I am raising 2 kids, one of whom is deaf.

When I met them, 4 and 5, the deaf one was treated as the centre of the universe and the hearing one was basically spare parts.

He was quite independent and readily learnt independence skills, but it seemed to me an unhealthy independence, as if he was used to viewing the rest of the world as a spectator and unused to being cared for. The deaf one didn't understand that there are other people in the world to be considered, and I could understand why.

It is taking me an unconscionably long time to get them to meet in the middle, they have both come to regard it as power game to get other people to do stuff for them. It doesn't help that their father rarely stirs from his TV if he is not at work. He is modelling selfishness for them like a textbook. The older one said to me a few months ago "Of course I sit around doing nothing, I'm a male aren't I?"

I don't feel that I am without resources in this, but I am deathly afraid of stuffing it up and I feel I am fighting an uphill battle.

Oddly, I wasn't as hesitant in raising my own son and he, poor soul, had all the disadvantages of being my "learner driver" kid.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
I am raising 2 kids, one of whom is deaf.

When I met them, 4 and 5, the deaf one was treated as the centre of the universe and the hearing one was basically spare parts.

He was quite independent and readily learnt independence skills, but it seemed to me an unhealthy independence, as if he was used to viewing the rest of the world as a spectator and unused to being cared for. The deaf one didn't understand that there are other people in the world to be considered, and I could understand why.

It is taking me an unconscionably long time to get them to meet in the middle, they have both come to regard it as power game to get other people to do stuff for them. It doesn't help that their father rarely stirs from his TV if he is not at work. He is modelling selfishness for them like a textbook. The older one said to me a few months ago "Of course I sit around doing nothing, I'm a male aren't I?"

I don't feel that I am without resources in this, but I am deathly afraid of stuffing it up and I feel I am fighting an uphill battle.

Oddly, I wasn't as hesitant in raising my own son and he, poor soul, had all the disadvantages of being my "learner driver" kid.

It is excruciatingly difficult to raise someone else’s kids, especially when the parent is present and non-participating. Except as a bad role model.

I understand why you are reluctant to abandon these kids—who are lucky to have you but you cannot continue to stuff things inside. It isn’t fooling the kids and it is teaching them that you can be pushed into not considering your own needs and feelings. It will become part of the power play for one thing. For another it teaches them that their father is to be feared and apparently that this is a rightful role for males.

I don’t know the right answers for you. It sounds like an intolerable situation—and that your choices are to tolerate it or to abandon /be let go and the kids would face worse. There must be some way to get some intervention for these kids.
 

crazyfingers

Supermagnon
Staff member
Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
4,057
Location
Massachusetts USA
Basic Beliefs
Secular Humanism
In 2004 my wife and I adopted 3 siblings from state foster care/ Department of Children and Families (DCF). They were Boy 18 month, Boy 2.5 years and Girl 3.75 years old. Turns out all of them had/have mental illnesses. The oldest one has/had Reactive Attachment Disorder and was kicking holes in her wall by the age of 6. She was hospitalized 19 times for violent behaviors.

The middle kid has autism and in his early years would kick and bite up to the age or around 8.

The youngest has been traumatized by the two olders and has severe anxiety and ADHD.

2007 to 2015 were hell on earth. Things are now only just semi tolerable at home.

The worst part is that everyone judges the parents. I recall in 2010 our daughter was so violent to us and her siblings that we had to keep her away from them and not let her play with them unsupervised as she would be violent towards them. She told the school that she was not allowed to play with her brothers. They filed a 51A for abuse and neglect on us. Fortunately we had surrounded ourselves with social workers by that time and DCF roundly flogged the school. But it takes a toll.

Massachusetts supposedly has one of the best mental health systems. But best does not mean anything close to good.

In many ways DCF reminds me of the religious right. The religious right wants all babies to get born but as so as they are born they will happily let kids die of no healthcare or food. DCF wants you do adopt their foster kids but as soon as they are adopted all they do is blame parents when the adopted kids have issues that were caused by the lack of care that they received while in DCF custody.

Anyway, things are a bit better now. The oldest is 18 and finally is no longer violent. The middle boy with autism is probably the nest adjusted of the three and the youngest is finally less anxious and is reacting better to his ADHD meds. At the very least the fear level in the our home is down significantly.

Overall, it has not been a good experience. If I knew what I know now back in 2004, I can not honestly say whether I would do it again or not.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

Traditional Atheist
Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Messages
8,912
Location
PA USA
Basic Beliefs
egalitarian
I agree with teaching them enough to not be an annoying roommate or a helpless spectator to problems. I have always made my kids be the one to check in at doctor’s office wile I stand behind, I make them step up to the motor vehicle counter, and even when very young made them ask the librarian themselves if they wanted help. They seem to have some relief compared to friends when faced with stuff. When they got their licenses, I taught them how to exchange papers and take photos in an accident, change a tire and fill fluids. And yeah, how to share and make space for others in their house. Because life is hard enough without having to navigate people who are mad at you and you don’t know why.

My kids called everyone except their grandparents by first name, including us. Visitors often thought I was a stepdad. Just wanted them to learn that they were on an equal basis with everyone. Probably had something to do with my being raised in a very religious family where some people were more important than other people because of what they did for a living.
 

spikepipsqueak

My Brane Hertz
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
4,410
Location
Victoria
Basic Beliefs
Nil
In 2004 my wife and I adopted 3 siblings from state foster care/ Department of Children and Families (DCF). They were Boy 18 month, Boy 2.5 years and Girl 3.75 years old. Turns out all of them had/have mental illnesses. The oldest one has/had Reactive Attachment Disorder and was kicking holes in her wall by the age of 6. She was hospitalized 19 times for violent behaviors.

The middle kid has autism and in his early years would kick and bite up to the age or around 8.

The youngest has been traumatized by the two olders and has severe anxiety and ADHD.

2007 to 2015 were hell on earth. Things are now only just semi tolerable at home.

The worst part is that everyone judges the parents. I recall in 2010 our daughter was so violent to us and her siblings that we had to keep her away from them and not let her play with them unsupervised as she would be violent towards them. She told the school that she was not allowed to play with her brothers. They filed a 51A for abuse and neglect on us. Fortunately we had surrounded ourselves with social workers by that time and DCF roundly flogged the school. But it takes a toll.

Massachusetts supposedly has one of the best mental health systems. But best does not mean anything close to good.

In many ways DCF reminds me of the religious right. The religious right wants all babies to get born but as so as they are born they will happily let kids die of no healthcare or food. DCF wants you do adopt their foster kids but as soon as they are adopted all they do is blame parents when the adopted kids have issues that were caused by the lack of care that they received while in DCF custody.

Anyway, things are a bit better now. The oldest is 18 and finally is no longer violent. The middle boy with autism is probably the nest adjusted of the three and the youngest is finally less anxious and is reacting better to his ADHD meds. At the very least the fear level in the our home is down significantly.

Overall, it has not been a good experience. If I knew what I know now back in 2004, I can not honestly say whether I would do it again or not.

I remember some of this as it was happening. Having gotten them towards a more stable adulthood I hope you give yourself credit.

I don't like to think of their lives if those 3 had stayed in public care.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
In 2004 my wife and I adopted 3 siblings from state foster care/ Department of Children and Families (DCF). They were Boy 18 month, Boy 2.5 years and Girl 3.75 years old. Turns out all of them had/have mental illnesses. The oldest one has/had Reactive Attachment Disorder and was kicking holes in her wall by the age of 6. She was hospitalized 19 times for violent behaviors.

The middle kid has autism and in his early years would kick and bite up to the age or around 8.

The youngest has been traumatized by the two olders and has severe anxiety and ADHD.

2007 to 2015 were hell on earth. Things are now only just semi tolerable at home.

The worst part is that everyone judges the parents. I recall in 2010 our daughter was so violent to us and her siblings that we had to keep her away from them and not let her play with them unsupervised as she would be violent towards them. She told the school that she was not allowed to play with her brothers. They filed a 51A for abuse and neglect on us. Fortunately we had surrounded ourselves with social workers by that time and DCF roundly flogged the school. But it takes a toll.

Massachusetts supposedly has one of the best mental health systems. But best does not mean anything close to good.

In many ways DCF reminds me of the religious right. The religious right wants all babies to get born but as so as they are born they will happily let kids die of no healthcare or food. DCF wants you do adopt their foster kids but as soon as they are adopted all they do is blame parents when the adopted kids have issues that were caused by the lack of care that they received while in DCF custody.

Anyway, things are a bit better now. The oldest is 18 and finally is no longer violent. The middle boy with autism is probably the nest adjusted of the three and the youngest is finally less anxious and is reacting better to his ADHD meds. At the very least the fear level in the our home is down significantly.

Overall, it has not been a good experience. If I knew what I know now back in 2004, I can not honestly say whether I would do it again or not.

I cannot begin to know what to say to you. Thank you for taking in those children seems....pallid and lazy and condescending and in every way possible inadequate. I am so sorry that these children endured what they must have endured for the very earliest parts of their lives, the influences that I am guessing that drugs/alcohol/abuse/neglect played in their lives even before they were born. I am so sorry that you haven't had the support you and your family so much needed and deserved.

It does seem as though you've gotten the kids to this much better point,perhaps the best they could have gotten given their earliest circumstance. My hat's off to you.
 

crazyfingers

Supermagnon
Staff member
Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
4,057
Location
Massachusetts USA
Basic Beliefs
Secular Humanism
I've been trying to think what kind of advice to give parents and it's been hard. Kids are all different and ours are not typical.

I'd say that the biggest thing that I'd have done differently if I could go back in time doesn't have to do with how we managed the kids but the schools.

Our kids really needed therapeutic schooling. We went into IEP meetings with our army of social workers and therapists and the school Director of Student Services would attempt to insult these people, ignore evidence, blame us.

As I think back, this Director of Student services at the public school was a lot like Trump. Unfortunately at the time he intimidated us. We tried to play nice. Persuade him. But he bullied.

In hindsight we should have taken him early and frequently to the State Board of Education Appeals.

I recall that we finally got our oldest into a therapeutic school, after paying several tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket for residential schooling and had overwhelming evidence that she needed it. This guy had all the documents we had sent and we were in an IEP meeting and he had not shared any of this with the school personnel at the IEP meeting. They were flabbergasted that he had thrown them all under the bus. We finally started to stand up to his bullying. He claimed to be a Ph.D psychologist but continued to confuse our daughter's diagnosis/condition, with a treatment plan. His idiotic bluster was so clear.

The acrimony for Reactive Attachment Disorder is RAD. The treatment is Attachment Theory. He kept saying we could RAD our child if we wanted to.

It's like saying we could Autism our kid if we wanted to.

I finally said strait out in front of everyone at the IEP meeting that he was a fool not to know the difference between a diagnosis and a treatment. I think that that's when he realized that his bullying would no longer work, he appeared visibly nervous having been shown to be a fool in front of his staff, and we had all the cards in our hands.

We should have played hardball from the moment we knew that he was going to play hardball. Never, ever, let the school bully you. Hit back hard to get your kids what they need.

Beware though. I've read quite a few news stories of schools filing abuse and neglect claim against parents as a bullying tool. It's next to impossible to prove that the school knowingly lied so they can and do lie and make things up. Be sure to have your social workers and therapists to back you up.

And by the way, the State Board of Education Appeals forced the school to pay us back the several tens of thousands of dollars..
 
Last edited:

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
I've been trying to think what kind of advice to give parents and it's been hard. Kids are all different and ours are not typical.

I'd say that the biggest thing that I'd have done differently if I could go back in time doesn't have to do with how we managed the kids but the schools.

Our kids really needed therapeutic schooling. We went into IEP meetings with our army of social workers and therapists and the school Director of Student Services would attempt to insult these people, ignore evidence, blame us.

As I think back, this Director of Student services at the public school was a lot like Trump. Unfortunately at the time he intimidated us. We tried to play nice. Persuade him. But he bullied.

In hindsight we should have taken him early and frequently to the State Board of Education Appeals.

I recall that we finally got our oldest into a therapeutic school, after paying several tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket for residential schooling and had overwhelming evidence that she needed it. This guy had all the documents we had sent and we were in an IEP meeting and he had not shared any of this with the school personnel at the IEP meeting. They were flabbergasted that he had thrown them all under the bus. We finally started to stand up to his bullying. He claimed to be a Ph.D psychologist but continued to confuse our daughter's diagnosis/condition, with a treatment plan. His idiotic bluster was so clear.

The acrimony for Reactive Attachment Disorder is RAD. The treatment is Attachment Theory. He kept saying we could RAD our child if we wanted to.

It's like saying we could Autism our kid if we wanted to.

I finally said strait out in front of everyone at the IEP meeting that he was a fool not to know the difference between a diagnosis and a treatment. I think that that's when he realized that his bullying would no longer work, he appeared visibly nervous having been shown to be a fool in front of his staff, and we had all the cards in our hands.

We should have played hardball from the moment we knew that he was going to play hardball. Never, ever, let the school bully you. Hit back hard to get your kids what they need.

Beware though. I've read quite a few news stories of schools filing abuse and neglect claim against parents as a bullying tool. It's next to impossible to prove that the school knowingly lied so they can and do lie and make things up. Be sure to have your social workers and therapists to back you up.

And by the way, the State Board of Education Appeals forced the school to pay us back the several tens of thousands of dollars..

This is a tragic situation and unforgivable.

I will say that on occasion, I've had school administrators say some incredibly stupid things in order to try to avoid/pull the wool over the eyes of parents and school board members because what was being requested and what was desperately needed was desperately expensive and they were trying to avoid having to provide the same thing for all of the kids who needed it. Because of limited resources. The obvious solution is that these sorts of situations: a child obviously needs and requires a treatment/education plan that is far beyond the usual scope of the school's ability to provide should be provided these services and the money should come directly from the state, not from the school district's funds. I saw some movement towards that in my own district when there was a child with extraordinary physical needs (very profound physical disabilities, to the extent that it was difficult to even guess at the emotional/social, much less educational needs) was overwhelming the district's ability to provide meaningful services to the child. Obviously, your family's situation was different but the principle is the same. I actually advocate that the state pay directly rather than that the school district's budget be increased because it is hard for the district to give up funds once the child moves on from the district and so sometimes, they simply find a lot more uses for the money, even if it means determining that every boy in 2nd grade has ADD/ADHD.......
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,452
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

What's going on in music class?

Could be related to a kid in the class, or the teacher or the subject. Or the teacher's perception of the kid's behavior or another kids' behavior.

I had at least one kid who was seen as a wonderful, brilliant, positive member of a class by one teacher and as Satan's right hand by another. For exactly the same behavior.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,452
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

What's going on in music class?

Could be related to a kid in the class, or the teacher or the subject. Or the teacher's perception of the kid's behavior or another kids' behavior.

I had at least one kid who was seen as a wonderful, brilliant, positive member of a class by one teacher and as Satan's right hand by another. For exactly the same behavior.
She seems to have more issues outside of class. But she is completely unpredictable. Sometimes she views herself as the executor of the rules and will be the enforcer. Other times she just acts out, have a great day and then she’ll snap.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

What's going on in music class?

Could be related to a kid in the class, or the teacher or the subject. Or the teacher's perception of the kid's behavior or another kids' behavior.

I had at least one kid who was seen as a wonderful, brilliant, positive member of a class by one teacher and as Satan's right hand by another. For exactly the same behavior.
She seems to have more issues outside of class. But she is completely unpredictable. Sometimes she views herself as the executor of the rules and will be the enforcer. Other times she just acts out, have a great day and then she’ll snap.

Strong sense of or need for order? Trying to work through her sense of right and wrong/justice? Does she tend to be hard on herself?
 

rousseau

Contributor
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
12,280
My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

Could it just be that she's intelligent and doesn't conform to the normal order of the class?

In risk of sounding naive as I'm yet to have kids, maybe it's just something that's not really worth worrying about until she's putting other kids in emotional or physical danger. All you can really do is continue to guide her about appropriate, socially adjusted behavior, no?
 

T.G.G. Moogly

Traditional Atheist
Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Messages
8,912
Location
PA USA
Basic Beliefs
egalitarian
My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

Tough to figure. It will all become clear when she's about 30. Six years is too early I think for a conclusive evaluation by a professional. Likely if she's just the queen of drama queens she sounds like maybe she has her dad's gift for meaningful communication, eh Jimmy? :D
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,452
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
She seems to have more issues outside of class. But she is completely unpredictable. Sometimes she views herself as the executor of the rules and will be the enforcer. Other times she just acts out, have a great day and then she’ll snap.

Strong sense of or need for order? Trying to work through her sense of right and wrong/justice? Does she tend to be hard on herself?
Not that I'm aware of. She is almost completely unhard on herself. Is it normal to be empathetic... and narcissistic?
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,452
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

Could it just be that she's intelligent and doesn't conform to the normal order of the class?
It is possible that she is too far above the class, though this school works on trying to manage several levels of intelligence in one class. But I don't want to go the "She is too smart" angle too easily.

My daughter has many strengths, but a few weaknesses (patience, listening), not that this isn't typical of a young child.
 

rousseau

Contributor
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
12,280
My daughter (6) is driving us nuts at school. Her behavior is all over the place. We have a run of decent days... or a run of bad days... or a run of mostly good days with a but. Go to pick her up and the teacher tells us that our daughter rescued a baby from a burning car in the morning, but then tried to collaborate with ISIS in the afternoon during music class. This kid is the queen of drama queens.

Could it just be that she's intelligent and doesn't conform to the normal order of the class?
It is possible that she is too far above the class, though this school works on trying to manage several levels of intelligence in one class. But I don't want to go the "She is too smart" angle too easily.

My daughter has many strengths, but a few weaknesses (patience, listening), not that this isn't typical of a young child.
Yea it might not be that. But on the other hand the bad behavior might not be due to intelligence as much as presence without a filter.

Where other kids are quietly following along your daughter might have a stronger frame of mind, resulting in a bit more of an exaggerated role in the classroom.

I guess the idea would be that this energy and awareness will eventually be channeled with her self control. Personally I'd ask yourself what you and your wife are like - you seem like a bright guy - so this explanation doesn't seem like a big stretch.

But then I know basically nothing about your daughter or the behavior so this could all be nonsense.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
She seems to have more issues outside of class. But she is completely unpredictable. Sometimes she views herself as the executor of the rules and will be the enforcer. Other times she just acts out, have a great day and then she’ll snap.

Strong sense of or need for order? Trying to work through her sense of right and wrong/justice? Does she tend to be hard on herself?
Not that I'm aware of. She is almost completely unhard on herself. Is it normal to be empathetic... and narcissistic?

She's 6. She's gonna be a bit self centered. Even for kids who have been through daycare and preschool and kindergarten, first grade can be a totally different experience where for the first time, you are expected to be exactly on the same page/place/problem number as everyone else in the class.

I've known a number of perfectly nice children who came home from first grade a hot mess on a daily basis.

On the other hand, if this is a change in behavior compared with last week, last month, last semester, maybe think about what is changing or has changed for her. In terms of her class, her classmates, how she goes to/from school, etc.

Like rousseau, I was going to ask if she was ahead of the class in some ways---Does she read or do math at a much higher level? Or a lower level? Or does she know how to do things but is easily distracted by a noisy classmate or situation?

One of my kids was pretty far advanced academically in school but socially not ahead at all. It was fine for him in (most of) elementary school but middle school was a nightmare. The one grade that was rough on him in elementary school is when he had a very rigid and frankly, just bad teacher. I know: I used to volunteer in the the class and graded lots of spelling tests and math tests and heard some of what she had to say. And the kids in general behaved badly. Because that teacher singled out my kid, the other kids picked on my kid as well. It was a relatively small school and these kids were almost all in the class with him the year before and the year after with zero issues. It was the teacher.

I'm not saying it is the teacher in this case. Just that sometimes something that seems small or a shake it off kind of thing to an adult or a slightly older or slightly younger child is a big deal to the kid in ways she may not even realize or understand.
 

southernhybrid

Contributor
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
6,532
Location
Georgia, US
Basic Beliefs
atheist
I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember that age six is one of those ages when kids drive their parents nuts. Hopefully, Jimmie's daughter's current issues are related to her being six. I think I would give her a little more time before I freaked out about her behavior.

The worst age is usually around puberty. My niece came to visit me once when she was almost 12. She hated her mother, took advantage of everything I offered to do with her etc. Now that she's an adult, she and her mother are extremely close. Almost too close imo, but my opinion is irrelevant when it comes to other people's relationships with their grown children.
 

rousseau

Contributor
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
12,280
Yea, I don't want to sound like I believe genetics are everything, but based on all of the research I've read the major factor contributing to life outcomes seems to boil down to inherited factors, rather than nurture.

Of course nurture is also critically important, but only insofar as you're providing the basics of socialization - don't do this extremely stupid thing - as any parent with common sense would do. Outside of that you're basically keeping them fed, making sure not to neglect them, and ideally providing rich experiences.

So yea, I don't think a little misbehavior at age 6 is a sign of anything outside of being a 6 year old, and probably nothing to worry about unless it starts indicating some type of condition. If Jimmy and Mrs. Jimmy are both successful people, it's reasonable to assume that in the long run their daughter likely will be too. All that can be done in the interim is really patient guidance.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,167
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Just wanted to throw this out there because it's something that I just remembered.

There was a period of some weeks when I was in first grade when I cried every day on the way to school and after arriving. It didn't happen at the beginning of the year--more in the middle. One day while walking to school with my older sister, I began to cry. I didn't know why. It didn't stop when I got to school, either. My sister was irritated as all older siblings would be with a younger sibling crying for no apparent reason. It didn't stop with that one day but continued for some period of time--weeks, perhaps. I honestly don't remember how long. It was enough that it warranted a visit from the teacher to my house (they did that in those days) to inquire what was wrong. I remember my parents and teachers very concerned and asking me what was wrong, was someone bothering me and why was I crying. I had no idea. I was completely perplexed myself. It went away on its own as best I can remember, as mysteriously as it happened in the first place.

I realize that's not particularly helpful but there it is. Sometimes kids don't know why they do the things they do.
 
Top Bottom