NFL team owner Robert Kraft was swept up in a bust of a sex-trafficking day spa

[Jimmy Higgins]

The former owner of a massage parlor tied to a recent high-profile prostitution case arranged for Chinese businesspeople to attend a fundraiser for President Donald Trump, The Miami Herald reported.

According to the Herald, Li Yang, who goes by Cindy, told a source present at the 2017 event in Manhattan that she brought a large group of business people from China to the fundraiser as her guests.

As the report noted, foreign nationals are legally allowed to attend fundraisers if their tickets are paid for by US citizens or permanent residents since foreign nationals may not donate to US political campaigns.

The report followed another from the Herald that said Yang attended a Super Bowl party with Trump earlier this year.

The Herald said Yang runs a consulting business, GY US Investments, that offers Chinese investors an introduction to people in Trump's orbit.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/10/politics/cindy-li-yang-trump-fundraiser-kraft/index.html

This case now appears to be a whole lot more than *just* trafficking.

Yeah, I just read about this. Of course, buying access is fine and we need to look elsewhere. It isn't like she is a Jeffrey Epstein who was pal'ing around with Trump at a Super Bowl Party... or in general.

 

[thebeave]

Oops. Fake News?

https://www.tmz.com/2019/03/14/robert-kraft-prostitution-sting-arrests-human-trafficking-sex-no-charges/

Robert Kraft and all the other suspects in South Florida's prostitution sting are not facing a single charge of human or sex trafficking -- despite the fact cops made that their headline ... TMZ Sports has learned.

We've confirmed with prosecutors in Palm Beach County -- home to the now-infamous Orchids of Asia Spa -- that Kraft is still only facing 2 solicitation charges. We're told that's also true for the other 25 "johns" arrested in Palm Beach and Martin Counties. Four other people have been arrested for operating or managing the spas, but even they haven't been charged with trafficking.

Sources familiar with the case tell us prosecutors have seen ZERO evidence of human trafficking to this point -- after a 5-month investigation. Further, we're told 2 federal agencies -- ICE and the FBI -- knew about the sting early on, and opted not to get involved because they saw no signs the case involved trafficking.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, I guess those campaign contributions to Trump by the spa's owner paid off.

Yay for corruption! It really is getting tired of all the winning - but not so tired it plans on stopping winning any time soon.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Oops. Fake News?

https://www.tmz.com/2019/03/14/robert-kraft-prostitution-sting-arrests-human-trafficking-sex-no-charges/

Robert Kraft and all the other suspects in South Florida's prostitution sting are not facing a single charge of human or sex trafficking -- despite the fact cops made that their headline ... TMZ Sports has learned.

We've confirmed with prosecutors in Palm Beach County -- home to the now-infamous Orchids of Asia Spa -- that Kraft is still only facing 2 solicitation charges. We're told that's also true for the other 25 "johns" arrested in Palm Beach and Martin Counties. Four other people have been arrested for operating or managing the spas, but even they haven't been charged with trafficking.

Sources familiar with the case tell us prosecutors have seen ZERO evidence of human trafficking to this point -- after a 5-month investigation. Further, we're told 2 federal agencies -- ICE and the FBI -- knew about the sting early on, and opted not to get involved because they saw no signs the case involved trafficking.

Well, I guess those campaign contributions to Trump by the spa's owner paid off.

Yay for corruption! It really is getting tired of all the winning - but not so tired it plans on stopping winning any time soon.

Corruption or simply reality? The evidence presented points just as much to illegals as to true trafficking. Illegals and traffickers have the same incentive to thwart investigators and moving frequently will make building a case much harder.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Corruption or simply reality? The evidence presented points just as much to illegals as to true trafficking. Illegals and traffickers have the same incentive to thwart investigators and moving frequently will make building a case much harder.

Well, if your business model ends up being indistinguishable from human trafficking, then you have a shit business model and you need to go out of business because you're providing cover for human traffickers and making them more difficult to identify and stop so fuck your goddamned slave enabling business.

Also, the people who keep saying it's not human trafficking remind me of this girl I knew in high school who got really pissed off when anyone called her boyfriend a drug dealer and then got more pissed off when we pointed out that we'd just bought drugs off of him a half hour earlier. At no point was she the kind of girl who'd be dating a drug dealer.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Corruption or simply reality? The evidence presented points just as much to illegals as to true trafficking. Illegals and traffickers have the same incentive to thwart investigators and moving frequently will make building a case much harder.

Well, if your business model ends up being indistinguishable from human trafficking, then you have a shit business model and you need to go out of business because you're providing cover for human traffickers and making them more difficult to identify and stop so fuck your goddamned slave enabling business.

Also, the people who keep saying it's not human trafficking remind me of this girl I knew in high school who got really pissed off when anyone called her boyfriend a drug dealer and then got more pissed off when we pointed out that we'd just bought drugs off of him a half hour earlier. At no point was she the kind of girl who'd be dating a drug dealer.

Being hard to tell apart from something evil doesn't make it the same thing.

And the problem is that the anti-prostitution forces have basically corrupted the word "trafficking" to include any prostitution that involves a woman relocating to do it.

 

[Derec]

That action by the sheriff's department is looking shadier and shadier.

Sneak-and-peek warrants unsealed in Martin County spa busts

But I suspect Toni et al will defend Shady Sheriff Snyder. Constitution, Schonstitution, when it comes to ending the scourge of people doing sexual stuff she disapproves of.

 

[Derec]

It is still the sex workers themselves who are loudest opponents of legislation ostensibly targeting "trafficking" but really targeting all sex work.
Consensual sex workers in Florida object to human trafficking legislation

The author finds this "unexpected", but sex workers have always been against the attempts by puritanical governments (be it in US or say Sweden) to ban sex work in order to ostensibly fight so-called "human trafficking".

 

[Toni]

That action by the sheriff's department is looking shadier and shadier.

Sneak-and-peek warrants unsealed in Martin County spa busts

But I suspect Toni et al will defend Shady Sheriff Snyder. Constitution, Schonstitution, when it comes to ending the scourge of people doing sexual stuff she disapproves of.

Like raping people?

Because that's what having sex with individuals who are trafficked is: raping someone who is unwilling but is being coerced.

I do object to that. Don't you?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Corruption or simply reality? The evidence presented points just as much to illegals as to true trafficking. Illegals and traffickers have the same incentive to thwart investigators and moving frequently will make building a case much harder.

Well, if your business model ends up being indistinguishable from human trafficking, then you have a shit business model and you need to go out of business because you're providing cover for human traffickers and making them more difficult to identify and stop so fuck your goddamned slave enabling business.

Also, the people who keep saying it's not human trafficking remind me of this girl I knew in high school who got really pissed off when anyone called her boyfriend a drug dealer and then got more pissed off when we pointed out that we'd just bought drugs off of him a half hour earlier. At no point was she the kind of girl who'd be dating a drug dealer.

Being hard to tell apart from something evil doesn't make it the same thing.

And the problem is that the anti-prostitution forces have basically corrupted the word "trafficking" to include any prostitution that involves a woman relocating to do it.

Ya, it's not the same thing but you're still a dick for providing cover for the evil enterprises through making your legal business indistinguishable from their illegal ones so that it's much harder to police the evil ones and therefore the victims of those evil businesses suffer more because of your actions.

It's like if you have a business selling small packs of sugar on the side of the road to passing drivers for them to put into their coffee. There's nothing illegal or immoral about your business, but by doing it you are making it much more difficult for cops to target drug dealers because you are out there looking like you're doing the exact same thing as them so it's harder for them to get drugs off the street and this means that your standing out there doing this is actively harming people almost the same as the real drug dealers are.

If you think that's a stupid example and nobody would actually have a business like that and anyone doing so would actually be a drug dealer and not a sugar merchant then … ya … welcome to the entire point of the analogy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That action by the sheriff's department is looking shadier and shadier.

Sneak-and-peek warrants unsealed in Martin County spa busts

But I suspect Toni et al will defend Shady Sheriff Snyder. Constitution, Schonstitution, when it comes to ending the scourge of people doing sexual stuff she disapproves of.

Like raping people?

Because that's what having sex with individuals who are trafficked is: raping someone who is unwilling but is being coerced.

I do object to that. Don't you?

You're still missing the fact that the anti-prostitution forces have redefined "trafficked" to include large numbers of women who are voluntarily in the profession.

 

[laughing dog]

That action by the sheriff's department is looking shadier and shadier.

Sneak-and-peek warrants unsealed in Martin County spa busts

But I suspect Toni et al will defend Shady Sheriff Snyder. Constitution, Schonstitution, when it comes to ending the scourge of people doing sexual stuff she disapproves of.

Like raping people?

Because that's what having sex with individuals who are trafficked is: raping someone who is unwilling but is being coerced.

I do object to that. Don't you?

You're still missing the fact that the anti-prostitution forces have redefined "trafficked" to include large numbers of women who are voluntarily in the profession.

The women in this site appear to have little recourse but to stay and perform sex for money. That suggests that they are not always willing performers in this instance. Bringing up your wrangling over the accuracy of someone's definition is completely irrelevant to the actual discussion about what Robert Kraft may or may not have done.

 

[Toni]

That action by the sheriff's department is looking shadier and shadier.

Sneak-and-peek warrants unsealed in Martin County spa busts

But I suspect Toni et al will defend Shady Sheriff Snyder. Constitution, Schonstitution, when it comes to ending the scourge of people doing sexual stuff she disapproves of.

Like raping people?

Because that's what having sex with individuals who are trafficked is: raping someone who is unwilling but is being coerced.

I do object to that. Don't you?

You're still missing the fact that the anti-prostitution forces have redefined "trafficked" to include large numbers of women who are voluntarily in the profession.

How about writing about what YOU think instead of what you think I think.

For example: You could have written: "Anti-prostitution forces have redefined "trafficked" to include large numbers of women who are voluntarily in the profession " instead of trying to tell me what I think, which frankly comes across as a personal attack on me and really undermines your point.

You could make your point stronger by referring to or even linking to sources that back up your point.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Being hard to tell apart from something evil doesn't make it the same thing.

And the problem is that the anti-prostitution forces have basically corrupted the word "trafficking" to include any prostitution that involves a woman relocating to do it.

Ya, it's not the same thing but you're still a dick for providing cover for the evil enterprises through making your legal business indistinguishable from their illegal ones so that it's much harder to police the evil ones and therefore the victims of those evil businesses suffer more because of your actions.

It's like if you have a business selling small packs of sugar on the side of the road to passing drivers for them to put into their coffee. There's nothing illegal or immoral about your business, but by doing it you are making it much more difficult for cops to target drug dealers because you are out there looking like you're doing the exact same thing as them so it's harder for them to get drugs off the street and this means that your standing out there doing this is actively harming people almost the same as the real drug dealers are.

If you think that's a stupid example and nobody would actually have a business like that and anyone doing so would actually be a drug dealer and not a sugar merchant then … ya … welcome to the entire point of the analogy.

If prostitution was legalized and this stuff didn't have to happen in shady places, it would be much easier for prostitution businesses to differentiate themselves from trafficking.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

You're still missing the fact that the anti-prostitution forces have redefined "trafficked" to include large numbers of women who are voluntarily in the profession.

How about writing about what YOU think instead of what you think I think.

For example: You could have written: "Anti-prostitution forces have redefined "trafficked" to include large numbers of women who are voluntarily in the profession "

They did. Many times. You ignored it and kept on speaking as if you never saw it.

instead of trying to tell me what I think, which frankly comes across as a personal attack on me and really undermines your point.

You are in desperate need of that mirror again. Why don't you remember how this feels when you do this so frequently to others ?

 

[laughing dog]

They did. Many times. You ignored it and kept on speaking as if you never saw it.

instead of trying to tell me what I think, which frankly comes across as a personal attack on me and really undermines your point.

You are in desperate need of that mirror again. Why don't you remember how this feels when you do this so frequently to others ?

These particular women appear to have had no agency in their "professional" life, according to the news reports. Whether they were voluntarily trafficked or not is not relevant to the issue of whether they were, in essence, raped (which is Toni's point).

Yet, you, LP and Derec persist in harping about the trafficking definition as if it matters, when it does not in this discussion. Your MO of persistent in sniping at a woman poster over her failure to rise to your level of moral outrage or to address your irrelevant issues is both extremely tiresome and revealing. But smile, it is almost the weekend.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If prostitution was legalized and this stuff didn't have to happen in shady places, it would be much easier for prostitution businesses to differentiate themselves from trafficking.

Yes. Also, they could look into not cramming a dozen women into small, dirty rooms which they can't leave, holding onto their passports, constantly shipping them off to different places so that they don't know where they are and can't develop any type of support structure - things like that. Given the number of legitimate prostitution services which don't do things like that in places where prostitution is illegal, they aren't really a necessary part of the business model and anyone who runs a prostitution company that doesn't base its business model around the raping of sex slaves would be free to not do any of that. If they're going to do that, then they really can't complain about people saying that their human traffickers ... since that's actually what they are.

 

[ronburgundy]

Clearly the solution is now that The Gronk is retired, he needs to take Kraft out to get laid on a yacht full of self-empowered hookers.

But no kinky stuff with Tide Pods. That shit'll kill ya.

 

[Derec]

Yes. Also, they could look into not cramming a dozen women into small, dirty rooms which they can't leave, holding onto their passports, constantly shipping them off to different places so that they don't know where they are and can't develop any type of support structure - things like that. Given the number of legitimate prostitution services which don't do things like that in places where prostitution is illegal, they aren't really a necessary part of the business model and anyone who runs a prostitution company that doesn't base its business model around the raping of sex slaves would be free to not do any of that. If they're going to do that, then they really can't complain about people saying that their human traffickers ... since that's actually what they are.

Even the sheriff who led the (very probably) unconstitutional suveilance operation admits that there is no evidence of human trafficking.

Outspoken Florida sheriff admits they can't prove human trafficking in Kraft case

Imagine - they have done invasive (hidden cameras in massage rooms) surveillance long enough to ensnare 100s of customers in BS "solicitation" charges, and yet they failed to obtain any real evidence of "trafficking", the ostensible goal of the operation.

Now, some of the things you say would point to likely trafficking. Keeping passports for example. If true (a big if) that would be pretty good evidence. But apparently they only have things like the living conditions of the women. While that is indicative of poor working conditions, and an employer who cuts corners (reason enough for me not to patronize that place), it is not indicative of trafficking, i.e. keeping these women against their will.

Many immigrants live in very cramped conditions in order to save money. Especially if they send majority of their earnings back to family in the old country, like many immigrants do. If 15 hispanic day laborers live in a three bedroom house that does not mean they are necessarily trafficking victims either.

That said, we must distinguish whether trafficking occurred vs. what Kraft and other customers knew or should have known. Since customers are not taken on a tour of any living quarters or privy to any passport issues, you can't really fault them. It would be racist to demand that all Asian massage parlors be presumed to be involved in human trafficking even if some are.

 

[laughing dog]

[
Even the sheriff who led the (very probably) unconstitutional suveilance operation admits that there is no evidence of human trafficking.

Outspoken Florida sheriff admits they can't prove human trafficking in Kraft case

There is a big difference between an inability to prove and no evidence.