Are MAGA morons actually brainwashed?

[Worldtraveller]

More evidence that they are brainwashed:

https://np.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/760jtn/ooof_trump/doafykp/

example:

39% of Republicans and 64% of Democrats thought their income tax rate was fair in 2016, 56% of Republicans and 69% of Democrats thought that their income tax rate was fair in 2017, a 17 point swing for Republicans and a 4 point change for Democrats. (The income tax rate did not change between 2016 and 2017, ed.)

There's lots there, with links to the polls.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You realize a lot of the stuff they "don't teach in college" isn't taught because it isn't true?

We saw with the Michael Knowles example of Christopher Columbus how they teach Columbus was a terrible human being. Knowles shot that propaganda down. Colleges teach there are more than 2 genders and Knowles once again has to teach them basic biology.

If the students at these colleges keep having to get lectured by conservatives, I'd say colleges are leftist propaganda machines.

By modern standards Columbus was a bad man.

 

[Half-Life]

You realize a lot of the stuff they "don't teach in college" isn't taught because it isn't true?

We saw with the Michael Knowles example of Christopher Columbus how they teach Columbus was a terrible human being. Knowles shot that propaganda down. Colleges teach there are more than 2 genders and Knowles once again has to teach them basic biology.

If the students at these colleges keep having to get lectured by conservatives, I'd say colleges are leftist propaganda machines.

By modern standards Columbus was a bad man.

Knowles touched on this, "Columbus had to make some moral concessions in order to take the bravest journey that one has possibly ever took."

 

[ZiprHead]

By modern standards Columbus was a bad man.

Knowles touched on this, "Columbus had to make some moral concessions in order to take the bravest journey that one has possibly ever took."

WTF does the journey have to do with what he did at the end of the journey?

 

[Half-Life]

By modern standards Columbus was a bad man.

Knowles touched on this, "Columbus had to make some moral concessions in order to take the bravest journey that one has possibly ever took."

WTF does the journey have to do with what he did at the end of the journey?

He brought slaves back because that was part of his deal. He made some moral concessions.

 

[ZiprHead]

WTF does the journey have to do with what he did at the end of the journey?

He brought slaves back because that was part of his deal. He made some moral concessions.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the slaves thought. "It's okay, it's a moral concession."

 

[Half-Life]

WTF does the journey have to do with what he did at the end of the journey?

He brought slaves back because that was part of his deal. He made some moral concessions.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the slaves thought. "It's okay, it's a moral concession."

And once again we're back to the "every continent on Earth was built upon slavery."

Egyptians used slaves to build the pyraminds. Everyone praises their society. How come no one says, "Don't forget those Egyptians were pure evil for what they did."

Yet when Columbus is brought up, people have seething hatred as if he was the first man to do it.....oh wait, it's because he was white.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the slaves thought. "It's okay, it's a moral concession."

And once again we're back to the "every continent on Earth was built upon slavery."

Egyptians used slaves to build the pyraminds. Everyone praises their society. How come no one says, "Don't forget those Egyptians were pure evil for what they did."

Yet when Columbus is brought up, people have seething hatred as if he was the first man to do it.....oh wait, it's because he was white.

Really poor excuse.

I suppose you wouldn't have a problem if I slap your momma because other moms have been slapped in the past.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Here in Florida we have a couple of "Clean Water Movements" in response to some pretty bad algae blooms that we have had in the last couple of years. Oddly they are dominated by hyper right wing anti-government types. Many of them actually blame the fish and game department for causing the water quality problems. Paradoxically they think that Trump/Desantis is going to answer their calls for reforms that will stop continued degradation of our water. Never mind that our water quality issues stem from overloading of our surface and ground waters with nitrogen and phosphorous from lawns, septic tanks, and agriculture. Our state Department of Environmental Protection hasn't set adequate TMDLs for those and where TMDLs are in force the achievement rate is abysmal.

They fail to acknowledge that all state agencies from fish and game to our state environmental protection department have been under GOP control for decades. They do not seem to care what Trump has done to the EPA or what is the real effect of the TrumpPruittWheeler-EPA position on Waters of the United States. They think that if they can get Desantis to stop fish and game from using herbicide to manage invasive exotic plants and get the state to block new development that all will be hunky dory. They don't want any government regulation in their lives; for example they are adamantly opposed to government mandated conversion of septic systems to hook up to centralize sewage treatment. But they want the government to ban Glyphosate (RoundUp) and believe that University of Florida and all state agency scientists have been bought by "The Chemical Cartel". Many are anti-Vaccine and like to spread anti-Vaccine conspiracy theories. It is a confused bunch that seem to be bound by a generic hatred of "The Establishment". So they are fine with the EPA allowing valley fill to bury streams and they don't want the EPA regulating development/agriculture in wetlands, but they think that if they can get the state to stop using herbicide to control Water Hyacinth that all will be right with the world and nature will take care of itself.

I thought this was an excellent response because it's the same thing I hear in these parts from right wingers. Their position has nothing to do with good environmental policy, rather it's an emotional attachment to party loyalty with a large helping of persecution complex. I don't think they care at all about environmental issues, because they're not informed enough to care. They don't want a great education but they want a great job with great pay and bennies. They think Trump and the right wing will give them these high paying jobs.

 

[Ford]

WTF does the journey have to do with what he did at the end of the journey?

He brought slaves back because that was part of his deal. He made some moral concessions.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the slaves thought. "It's okay, it's a moral concession."

Columbus wasn't just a bad man. He was the product of a bad society.

For starters, his "bravest journey" was done for fortune and fame rather than scientific exploration. When he arrived in "the new world" and found out there were already people living there, he didn't care. His was not a journey of discovery, and it set off a series of endeavors that were purely about conquest. Instead of marveling at this "new world" they'd "discovered" and exploring it, the Europeans conquered it. Enslaved or killed the natives, did some raping, and exploited the resources.

A modern, good man would have landed on these new shores, met the inhabitants, and said "holy shit, this is an undiscovered civilization. Different, to be sure, but interesting. Let's find out more about them, see if they want to trade, and maybe if we're lucky they'll let some of us live here alongside their society."

Instead, they showed up in the "new world" and said "this is ours. Fuck the people living here. We own it now. If they fight back, kill them."

"Civilized" Europeans embarked upon a long campaign to conquer "the new world" and the fact that Columbus and his companions risked their lives crossing the Atlantic doesn't make the end result any more noble.

I was lucky enough to stand at the top of the pyramid at Chichen' Itza before it was closed off, and marvel at the accomplishments of the Mayans who built the place. The Ball Court gets less publicity, but is an amazing accomplishment in it's own right. The idea that Europeans showed up in places like that and dismissed the societies as "savage" is horrible, but that's what happened.

Not that any MAGA morons would dare travel that deep into Mexico to see the ruins...

 

[Elixir]

A modern, good man would have landed on these new shores, met the inhabitants, and said "holy shit, this is an undiscovered civilization. Different, to be sure, but interesting. Let's find out more about them, see if they want to trade, and maybe if we're lucky they'll let some of us live here alongside their society."

I think that's a bit naive. More likely, a good modern man's representatives' PR firm would have told everyone that was what they were doing, whilst they set about enslaving, killing, raping, and exploiting.

 

[steve_bank]

MASA a sister group to MAGA.

Make America stupid Again.

These arguments are ridiculous. History of the USA is what it is.


In colonial America there were no large indigenous groups to exploit, as there were in South America. Labor had to be imported. I think it was Georgia that tried to do without slaves but could not compete.

Slavery did build colonial wealth that then made possible the American revolution.

Africa had slavery. Islamic states had slavery. What I object to is the idea it was exclusively America. It is not a hindsight justification. An observation of the global ststus quo of the times.

Circa 1800 the Barbary Pirates were raiding ships and southern Europe for slaves. Under Islam slavery of infidels was justified. Mediterranean coastal towns were abandoned.

But in the 19th and early 20th century it was not just blacks. Italian, Irish, Asian and other immigrant groups were exploited as well.

 

[Half-Life]

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the slaves thought. "It's okay, it's a moral concession."

Columbus wasn't just a bad man. He was the product of a bad society.

For starters, his "bravest journey" was done for fortune and fame rather than scientific exploration. When he arrived in "the new world" and found out there were already people living there, he didn't care. His was not a journey of discovery, and it set off a series of endeavors that were purely about conquest. Instead of marveling at this "new world" they'd "discovered" and exploring it, the Europeans conquered it. Enslaved or killed the natives, did some raping, and exploited the resources.

A modern, good man would have landed on these new shores, met the inhabitants, and said "holy shit, this is an undiscovered civilization. Different, to be sure, but interesting. Let's find out more about them, see if they want to trade, and maybe if we're lucky they'll let some of us live here alongside their society."

Instead, they showed up in the "new world" and said "this is ours. Fuck the people living here. We own it now. If they fight back, kill them."

"Civilized" Europeans embarked upon a long campaign to conquer "the new world" and the fact that Columbus and his companions risked their lives crossing the Atlantic doesn't make the end result any more noble.

I was lucky enough to stand at the top of the pyramid at Chichen' Itza before it was closed off, and marvel at the accomplishments of the Mayans who built the place. The Ball Court gets less publicity, but is an amazing accomplishment in it's own right. The idea that Europeans showed up in places like that and dismissed the societies as "savage" is horrible, but that's what happened.

Not that any MAGA morons would dare travel that deep into Mexico to see the ruins...

Plenty of countries were conquered by other races as well. It wasn't just Europeans who conquered lands.

And you are forgetting that Columbus and his men inadvertently exposed the natives to new diseases, which cause them to start dying as well.

 

[ZiprHead]

But mom, all the other kids are beating up the brown people.

 

[bilby]

It was a massive undertaking to get so far, on a journey many said was impossible. There's no doubt that many daring and brave things needed to be done, and that on each occasion, his men rose to the challenge and moved forward despite hardships and difficulties that would have led other leaders to reconsider their plans.

By today's standards, much of what he did would be considered brutal, even genocidal; But he was a product of his culture and his beliefs, and he was doing what he felt was necessary to maintain his country's position as a world leading power, and to establish a new homeland for those with the strength of character and dedication to hard work that would be essential to their settlement in the newly opened lands.

He did some things that were morally dubious by today's standards, but he was known to many as a kind, Christian man, who was brave, fiercely patriotic, and determined to stick to his principles even in the face of the most severe criticism.

But that's enough about Hitler's invasion of Russia. Now, Christopher Columbus? He was a vicious arsehole.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So Trumpism is a cult, but Obamism wasn't? Nah.

yeah! exactly like how obama's entire campaign was predicated on bald-faced lies, and then no liberal EVER called him out for it or questioned his integrity, and his support only went up during his time in office, and he was never criticized by his own party or chastised by the ideological left. cuz none of that ever happened. nope. nothing but jungle fever as far as the eye could see. yep. that's totally what happened.

good god your bullshit would be comical if it weren't so fucking sad.

Yeah, the media fawned over him. Always softball questions. And you got to keep your insurance if you liked it, right?

And this isn't cultish at all.

The media liked him. That's not the same as a cult following.

And I don't think anyone realized how bad the junk insurance problem was until the ACA exposed it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

By modern standards Columbus was a bad man.

Knowles touched on this, "Columbus had to make some moral concessions in order to take the bravest journey that one has possibly ever took."

I'm talking about his actions after making landfall.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the slaves thought. "It's okay, it's a moral concession."

And once again we're back to the "every continent on Earth was built upon slavery."

Egyptians used slaves to build the pyraminds. Everyone praises their society. How come no one says, "Don't forget those Egyptians were pure evil for what they did."

Yet when Columbus is brought up, people have seething hatred as if he was the first man to do it.....oh wait, it's because he was white.

1) The pyramids were not built with slave labor.

2) I do agree slavery was common back then. Just because doing bad things was common doesn't mean he didn't do bad things.

 

[Half-Life]

1) The pyramids were not built with slave labor.

2) I do agree slavery was common back then. Just because doing bad things was common doesn't mean he didn't do bad things.

Yet, white people get blamed the most today. Why is this? If I went around saying how evil it was that blacks owned each other as slaves, people just shrug their shoulders. Yet, bring up white people owning blacks and the foaming at the mouth starts.

Obviously, I'm not condoning slavery. But, it does seem a bit odd that only white people get blamed.

 

[Half-Life]

I'm talking about his actions after making landfall.

Yes, he did promise to bring back slaves. Sure, it would've been different if he just turned around and said, "There's people here. We're leaving." But, nobody ever did that in the history of mankind.

So, to single out Columbus is pretty bizarre. This was Knowles point. Every civilization conquered other nations. But then people say, "White man came to America and slaughtered the Indians" as if it's some kind of shock. Where's the shock about what Genghis Khan did? He was an invader and conqueror, too! Not a peep.