Are MAGA morons actually brainwashed?

[RavenSky]

This is how cults work. They gradually alter people’s brains, attuning them to a singular voice, and weaponizing them against any dissenting opinions. To their manipulated minds, efforts to reach them with objective truth become acts of aggression against the one they see as divine—and trigger an ever-more passionate affection toward their leader. They will defend (even to relational death with people they once loved) that one person.

America is in a cultic crisis, and Trumpism is the cult. There is no other way to approach these days.

When you believe one man above Science, above our Intelligence agencies, above former CIA directors and retired generals and revered journalists—when you believe that one man above even your own eyes and ears—you are fully indoctrinated.

This hasn’t happened by accident, but by sickening design. Cult leaders prey upon emotionally vulnerable people, leveraging their loneliness, their disenfranchisement, their disconnection.

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2019/02/04/when-someone-you-love-joins-a-cult

I suppose if they are victims of a cult, there is hope for them and a reason to be compassionate towards them.

Given the destruction their support of Trump has caused, I'm not sure I care if they themselves are victims, too.

 

[Metaphor]

This is how cults work. They gradually alter people’s brains, attuning them to a singular voice, and weaponizing them against any dissenting opinions. To their manipulated minds, efforts to reach them with objective truth become acts of aggression against the one they see as divine—and trigger an ever-more passionate affection toward their leader. They will defend (even to relational death with people they once loved) that one person.

America is in a cultic crisis, and Trumpism is the cult. There is no other way to approach these days.

When you believe one man above Science, above our Intelligence agencies, above former CIA directors and retired generals and revered journalists—when you believe that one man above even your own eyes and ears—you are fully indoctrinated.

This hasn’t happened by accident, but by sickening design. Cult leaders prey upon emotionally vulnerable people, leveraging their loneliness, their disenfranchisement, their disconnection.

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2019/02/04/when-someone-you-love-joins-a-cult

I suppose if they are victims of a cult, there is hope for them and a reason to be compassionate towards them.

Given the destruction their support of Trump has caused, I'm not sure I care if they themselves are victims, too.

Apart from being a hit piece that will drive Trump supporters even further into "Trumpism", the central thesis is definitionally wrong.

Cults are close-knit and insular circles of believers. Half of America voted for Trump. Cults are built on the compelling and charismatic force of the leader true, but that would make anyone who voted for any president a cultist. (In any case, Trump is many things but I don't know that he's widely regarded as charismatic).

And the first paragraph you quote seems like an inversion of reality: it is not Trump defenders who sever relationships with people who are not Trump supporters, at least from the evidence I've seen. I've read a few pieces (mainly appearing in the final weeks of 2016) that instructed university students on how to survive Thanksgiving with a family that voted for Trump, or how to feel 'safe' around Trump voters, and other such topics.

At best, and by conventional definition, "Trumpism" would be a religion, not a cult. But it's not that, either.

 

[Trausti]

 

[bilby]

This is how cults work. They gradually alter people’s brains, attuning them to a singular voice, and weaponizing them against any dissenting opinions. To their manipulated minds, efforts to reach them with objective truth become acts of aggression against the one they see as divine—and trigger an ever-more passionate affection toward their leader. They will defend (even to relational death with people they once loved) that one person.

America is in a cultic crisis, and Trumpism is the cult. There is no other way to approach these days.

When you believe one man above Science, above our Intelligence agencies, above former CIA directors and retired generals and revered journalists—when you believe that one man above even your own eyes and ears—you are fully indoctrinated.

This hasn’t happened by accident, but by sickening design. Cult leaders prey upon emotionally vulnerable people, leveraging their loneliness, their disenfranchisement, their disconnection.

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2019/02/04/when-someone-you-love-joins-a-cult

I suppose if they are victims of a cult, there is hope for them and a reason to be compassionate towards them.

Given the destruction their support of Trump has caused, I'm not sure I care if they themselves are victims, too.

Apart from being a hit piece that will drive Trump supporters even further into "Trumpism", the central thesis is definitionally wrong.

Cults are close-knit and insular circles of believers. Half of America voted for Trump. Cults are built on the compelling and charismatic force of the leader true, but that would make anyone who voted for any president a cultist. (In any case, Trump is many things but I don't know that he's widely regarded as charismatic).

And the first paragraph you quote seems like an inversion of reality: it is not Trump defenders who sever relationships with people who are not Trump supporters, at least from the evidence I've seen. I've read a few pieces (mainly appearing in the final weeks of 2016) that instructed university students on how to survive Thanksgiving with a family that voted for Trump, or how to feel 'safe' around Trump voters, and other such topics.

At best, and by conventional definition, "Trumpism" would be a religion, not a cult. But it's not that, either.

Half of American voters voted for Trump. That's about 32% of American adults.

And a nontrivial fraction of those likely vote for ANY Republican candidate, and didn't care that this time around it was Trump.

It seems highly plausible that the fraction of Americans who actually support Trump, as a person, is in the single digits per cent.

 

[Metaphor]

Apart from being a hit piece that will drive Trump supporters even further into "Trumpism", the central thesis is definitionally wrong.

Cults are close-knit and insular circles of believers. Half of America voted for Trump. Cults are built on the compelling and charismatic force of the leader true, but that would make anyone who voted for any president a cultist. (In any case, Trump is many things but I don't know that he's widely regarded as charismatic).

And the first paragraph you quote seems like an inversion of reality: it is not Trump defenders who sever relationships with people who are not Trump supporters, at least from the evidence I've seen. I've read a few pieces (mainly appearing in the final weeks of 2016) that instructed university students on how to survive Thanksgiving with a family that voted for Trump, or how to feel 'safe' around Trump voters, and other such topics.

At best, and by conventional definition, "Trumpism" would be a religion, not a cult. But it's not that, either.

Half of American voters voted for Trump. That's about 17% of American adults.

And a nontrivial fraction of those likely vote for ANY Republican candidate, and didn't care that this time around it was Trump.

But that's part of my point: people support Trump like they would any Republican, if they already support Republicans.

Who are the people that the author is talking about? The one person in the anecdote he provides? Anyone who wears a MAGA hat? What percentage of Americans are Trumpist "cultists"? It seems like another vacuous orange man bad rant.

 

[zorq]

I don't think cults have to be close knit communities. Look at Mao Zedong. Searching for "Cult of Mao Zedong" with the quotation marks gets 47,000 hits on google. There are many academic articles that address Mao's personality cult.

BTW, "Cult of Donald Trump" gets 108,000 hits on google.

 

[ronburgundy]

Mindless, faith-based, dogmatism is a feature of cults, but not all mindless, faith-based dogmatists are in a cult.

 

[scombrid]

Here in Florida we have a couple of "Clean Water Movements" in response to some pretty bad algae blooms that we have had in the last couple of years. Oddly they are dominated by hyper right wing anti-government types. Many of them actually blame the fish and game department for causing the water quality problems. Paradoxically they think that Trump/Desantis is going to answer their calls for reforms that will stop continued degradation of our water. Never mind that our water quality issues stem from overloading of our surface and ground waters with nitrogen and phosphorous from lawns, septic tanks, and agriculture. Our state Department of Environmental Protection hasn't set adequate TMDLs for those and where TMDLs are in force the achievement rate is abysmal.

They fail to acknowledge that all state agencies from fish and game to our state environmental protection department have been under GOP control for decades. They do not seem to care what Trump has done to the EPA or what is the real effect of the TrumpPruittWheeler-EPA position on Waters of the United States. They think that if they can get Desantis to stop fish and game from using herbicide to manage invasive exotic plants and get the state to block new development that all will be hunky dory. They don't want any government regulation in their lives; for example they are adamantly opposed to government mandated conversion of septic systems to hook up to centralize sewage treatment. But they want the government to ban Glyphosate (RoundUp) and believe that University of Florida and all state agency scientists have been bought by "The Chemical Cartel". Many are anti-Vaccine and like to spread anti-Vaccine conspiracy theories. It is a confused bunch that seem to be bound by a generic hatred of "The Establishment". So they are fine with the EPA allowing valley fill to bury streams and they don't want the EPA regulating development/agriculture in wetlands, but they think that if they can get the state to stop using herbicide to control Water Hyacinth that all will be right with the world and nature will take care of itself.

 

[prideandfall]

I suppose if they are victims of a cult, there is hope for them and a reason to be compassionate towards them.

Given the destruction their support of Trump has caused, I'm not sure I care if they themselves are victims, too.

they are most certainly not brainwashed, and this is most certainly not like a cult whatsoever.

this is simply the endgame of socially conservative ideology and its core principles (note that being distinct from politically conservative ideology, which at least has some merit), and this is what happens when social dogmatism is introduced into a political party and takes it over.
it astounds me that there are still some people out there naive enough to think that trump is some kind of great con artist pulling an elaborate ruse on a bunch of hapless plebes - because that's most definitely not the case, trump is simply the manifest will of american rightwing politics, it's like he was literally conjured up by magic from the collective id of "Republicanism".
he's everything they have ever wanted in a president, and quite honestly when i read articles like this i think it's just sad that there are people so blinded by bias and the desire to assign false intent to others that they think they need some sinister plot to explain what is very apparent: these people aren't victims of trump, trump is just everything they have been looking for since the late 70s.

 

[Treedbear]

... trump is simply the manifest will of american rightwing politics, it's like he was literally conjured up by magic from the collective id of "Republicanism". ...

Monsters from the id -


Actually, a good article there:

...
The Republican Party didn’t do it overnight. They didn’t have a great machine, so it took them sixty years to create a monster out of their collective id. But it’s here now, lit up and screaming and demanding to be heard.

You see… Donald Trump doesn’t know it’s supposed to be subtle, or a secret. He doesn’t know you don’t just say the most awful nightmarish thing out loud. He doesn’t know how to use a dog whistle. He’s not a Republican politician. He’s the culmination of six decades of irrational stark terror building in the hearts of a certain portion of the population. He’s the monster from the GOP’s id.
...

 

[Elixir]

This is how cults work. They gradually alter people’s brains, attuning them to a singular voice, and weaponizing them against any dissenting opinions. To their manipulated minds, efforts to reach them with objective truth become acts of aggression against the one they see as divine—and trigger an ever-more passionate affection toward their leader. They will defend (even to relational death with people they once loved) that one person.

America is in a cultic crisis, and Trumpism is the cult. There is no other way to approach these days.

When you believe one man above Science, above our Intelligence agencies, above former CIA directors and retired generals and revered journalists—when you believe that one man above even your own eyes and ears—you are fully indoctrinated.

This hasn’t happened by accident, but by sickening design. Cult leaders prey upon emotionally vulnerable people, leveraging their loneliness, their disenfranchisement, their disconnection.

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2019/02/04/when-someone-you-love-joins-a-cult

I suppose if they are victims of a cult, there is hope for them and a reason to be compassionate towards them.

Given the destruction their support of Trump has caused, I'm not sure I care if they themselves are victims, too.

Yeah, that echoes my feeling about them. I know a few Trumpanzees of whom I am quite fond, and those individuals at least, are definitely brainwashed by FOX and its associated conspiracy nuts. They are not even aware of how transparently they strive to "not care about politics" lest the realities that contradict their views should come under discussion. They literally start yelling about how much they aren't paying attention to any of that if anyone tries to present them with facts.

For Bilby and Metaphor, whose view from down under are probably representative of what much of "the rest of the world" thinks... NOT EVEN half of the electorate voted for Cheato.
All the hifalutin' social and economic "fixes" to the TrumPutin problem would be obviated if only the majority of American citizens were represented by government. A handful of racist Freedom Caucus troglodytes has been running the show for years, and Trump is the deformed, retarded baby that they have birthed after more than a decade of gestation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I suppose if they are victims of a cult, there is hope for them and a reason to be compassionate towards them.

Given the destruction their support of Trump has caused, I'm not sure I care if they themselves are victims, too.

they are most certainly not brainwashed, and this is most certainly not like a cult whatsoever.

this is simply the endgame of socially conservative ideology and its core principles (note that being distinct from politically conservative ideology, which at least has some merit), and this is what happens when social dogmatism is introduced into a political party and takes it over.

Why are you certain it's not brainwashing? Brainwashing can be done speaking to a large group of people--I've seen it.

 

[prideandfall]

Why are you certain it's not brainwashing? Brainwashing can be done speaking to a large group of people--I've seen it.

because brainwashing implies some kind of coercion or at the very least subverting propaganda, something subtle being done via messaging to trick people into thinking something that isn't true.
trump (abstractly) and the ideology for which his presidency is the natural culmination (specifically) wasn't the result of a concerted effort to manipulate people into wanting trump, it's the result of decades of voting habits putting these kinds of people into office.

the decay of government as a body that governs is the sole fault of the voting public, this is all just the inevitable result of US republicanism since the 1960s, there was nowhere else this was ever going to go.
and where it went is exactly where republican voters want it, as trump is like a golden god, every wish social conservatives have been nurturing an erection over for decades made flesh.

 

[southernhybrid]

I do think that some of them are brainwashed or indoctrinated if that's a better word. Trump has had a cult like following his entire adult life. He's manipulated large banks into giving him loans, despite his history of bankruptcy and failed businesses. He's failed at so many things but he's always been able to gather a following that thinks he's invincible, who falsely believe he will help them or he will be successful. If he hadn't inherited as much money as he did, he'd probably be dirt poor by now. He just has the type of personality that some find very charismatic. Cult leaders must be charismatic to be successful.

I have one Trump supporting friend. We aren't that close but we do keep in touch. We never discuss politics but on those rare occasions when I visit Facebook, she's posting about things she's seen on Fox news, or how we must build the wall, etc. She's also very religious, so she and I are a weird combination. Apparently people like my friend are easily indoctrinated. Some of thses Trump followers have also been indoctrinated by their church leaders. Look at some of the things that the despicable Franklin Graham has said about liberals, atheists etc. I just think that a certain part of the population is easily subjected to believing all kinds of weird shit. How else do we explain why some people believe in the story of the great flood as a literal event? They aren't morons, so I would never use that word. They may be very rational and intelligent when it comes to their work, or other things in their lives, but when it comes to religion or politics, they are sheep, who follow their cult leader. Here in Georgia, a huge percentage of the population gets all of its news from Fox. If you go into a bar or restaurant, it's usually turned to Fox. I can't see how that's not a source of brainwashing.

Of course there are people who will vote Republican regardless of who is running and I also know that some very educated, wealthy people who are one item voters. Tax breaks for me is all they care about. My own brother in law falls into this category, and he will openly admit that's why he voted for Trump. He's a very shallow person, despite being highly educated. Making a lot of money has always been his primary ambition in life. At least that's what my husband tells me. We on the other hand, have never cared about being wealthy, so it's always been difficult for us to understand that mindset.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I have just about given up trying to understand the allure of Trump. For me he gives off the reek of Dairy Queen back-of-store dumpsters -- that shrieking stench of milk product waste (especially in July and August.) I wouldn't share an elevator ride with him (and I'm male.) I get that he talked about Hillary just exactly the way the GOP base was hungering for someone to talk about her. He stood next to her and told her he'd put her in jail...that she was a nasty woman. Hardcore GOP voters were thirsting for that, and he delivered. He undeniably harps on the dog whistle racial issues because the GOP is over 90% Caucasian (I think it's actually north of 95%), and the country is headed for minority-majority status in 23 years. I get that Republicans have been screaming about media bias since the 1960s -- so they are ready for Trump's sledge-hammer attacks on journalism. I get that social media and Fox have made it easy to deliver a crazed Trumpy message to the faithful.
I still don't get how they ignore the man's incessant lies (okay, I'm betting Fox News never uses that word with him, so the faithful don't hear it) and his trashy mouth (they have to know how he publicly yells 'Bullshit!' and 'Son of a bitch!') I tell myself that they really do have some judgment of character, but that it is put to the side with Trump. 'Let Reagan be Reagan' was the excuse for Reagan making wild factual errors in his speeches and press conferences. "That's just how he is" is how I've heard more than a few Trumpies excusing his inexcusable boorishness toward his opponents. It's sad and infuriating and chilling to see a good two fifths of the country being led by the nose by a laughably obvious huckster and hatemonger.

 

[RVonse]

Is it possible that some of us simply voted for Trump because he best represented what our own particular interests were? And that I felt that "making America great again" was more noble than following "Im with the crooked Hillary" crowd? Somehow MAGA just sounded better to me.

Or was I a part of the Obama cult when I voted for him instead of McCain? At the time I thought I voted for Obama because he was going to save what was left of my job at Chrysler Corporation. I did not think that self preservation of my pension meant I was part of a conspiracy cult with Obama and his change movement.

We are all different people with different jobs, viewpoints and values. And that does not mean we are cult members when we vote for "the other guy". It just makes us Americans voting for our own self interest and nothing more than that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why are you certain it's not brainwashing? Brainwashing can be done speaking to a large group of people--I've seen it.

because brainwashing implies some kind of coercion or at the very least subverting propaganda, something subtle being done via messaging to trick people into thinking something that isn't true.
trump (abstractly) and the ideology for which his presidency is the natural culmination (specifically) wasn't the result of a concerted effort to manipulate people into wanting trump, it's the result of decades of voting habits putting these kinds of people into office.

the decay of government as a body that governs is the sole fault of the voting public, this is all just the inevitable result of US republicanism since the 1960s, there was nowhere else this was ever going to go.
and where it went is exactly where republican voters want it, as trump is like a golden god, every wish social conservatives have been nurturing an erection over for decades made flesh.

And what we have seen from the His Flatulence crowd isn't brainwashing?

 

[ZiprHead]

I suppose if they are victims of a cult, there is hope for them and a reason to be compassionate towards them.

Given the destruction their support of Trump has caused, I'm not sure I care if they themselves are victims, too.

they are most certainly not brainwashed, and this is most certainly not like a cult whatsoever.

this is simply the endgame of socially conservative ideology and its core principles (note that being distinct from politically conservative ideology, which at least has some merit), and this is what happens when social dogmatism is introduced into a political party and takes it over.
it astounds me that there are still some people out there naive enough to think that trump is some kind of great con artist pulling an elaborate ruse on a bunch of hapless plebes - because that's most definitely not the case, trump is simply the manifest will of american rightwing politics, it's like he was literally conjured up by magic from the collective id of "Republicanism".
he's everything they have ever wanted in a president, and quite honestly when i read articles like this i think it's just sad that there are people so blinded by bias and the desire to assign false intent to others that they think they need some sinister plot to explain what is very apparent: these people aren't victims of trump, trump is just everything they have been looking for since the late 70s.

Holy crap. The MAGA morons are still chanting "Lock her up! Lock her up!" at his rallies. That's willful ignorance of facts.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why are you certain it's not brainwashing? Brainwashing can be done speaking to a large group of people--I've seen it.

because brainwashing implies some kind of coercion or at the very least subverting propaganda, something subtle being done via messaging to trick people into thinking something that isn't true.
trump (abstractly) and the ideology for which his presidency is the natural culmination (specifically) wasn't the result of a concerted effort to manipulate people into wanting trump, it's the result of decades of voting habits putting these kinds of people into office.

But that is exactly what happened.

Are you sure you're not brain-washed?

 

[jab]

I don't think cults have to be close knit communities. Look at Mao Zedong. Searching for "Cult of Mao Zedong" with the quotation marks gets 47,000 hits on google. There are many academic articles that address Mao's personality cult.

BTW, "Cult of Donald Trump" gets 108,000 hits on google.

Yes, a successful political "cult of personality" functions somewhat differently, and in broader social formations, than your typical religious cult. Trump has leveraged the Republican brand into a cult of personality, in which, if polls are accurate, over 1/3 of Americans participate on a thoroughly committed basis.