My experiences that suggest an intelligent force exists

[Keith&Co.]

What about that connect 4 thing though....

What about it? Seriously, I mean, you think that an intelligent creative force that had something to do with the way the universe operates is limited to fucking around with a kids' toy to get your attention...

It just doesn't seem like the best option for an intelligent force. Not if it's really trying to communicate with you.

As Mr. Deity put it, "I do not fix football games while ignoring your uncle with the chest of child porn in his basement."

 

[Sarpedon]

I'm sorry I've been insulting. I've been insensitive. This has gone from aggravating to alarming real quick.

Please show all these things to your psychiatrist or social worker or whoever has been helping you. If you don't have anyone, please get someone.

 

[excreationist]

I'm sorry I've been insulting. I've been insensitive. This has gone from aggravating to alarming real quick.

Please show all these things to your psychiatrist or social worker or whoever has been helping you. If you don't have anyone, please get someone.

Well I showed them by fat loss videos and they thought that wasn’t normal for me but they didn’t say I should stop. Well at least it seems our argument is over

 

[excreationist]

Last night involved a Maundy Thursday dinner and service at my old hometown church where my parents still live.

Some unusual things happened again but I’ll go into that when I meet up with the pastor to get further details.

During the dinner I talked to the pastor and a retired pastor which I knew. I showed them a video of my upside down bible and the connect four photo on my phone which featured the meaning of life, etc, 42. Both didn’t think it had any supernatural significance at all. I’m going to ask my super obsessed Pentecostal sisters on Sunday.

 

[atrib]

Last night involved a Maundy Thursday dinner and service at my old hometown church where my parents still live.

Some unusual things happened again but I’ll go into that when I meet up with the pastor to get further details.

During the dinner I talked to the pastor and a retired pastor which I knew. I showed them a video of my upside down bible and the connect four photo on my phone which featured the meaning of life, etc, 42. Both didn’t think it had any supernatural significance at all. I’m going to ask my super obsessed Pentecostal sisters on Sunday.

Asking what may seem like a dumb question to you: why do you believe that any of these events, the upside-down Bible and the game, have any supernatural significance?

 

[excreationist]

Asking what may seem like a dumb question to you: why do you believe that any of these events, the upside-down Bible and the game, have any supernatural significance?

When I was reading the hospital’s bible upside down I was trying to get “God” to curse me - for the first time. Then I think it was the will of an intelligent force that I received an upside down bible. It should also be pretty clear that the meaning of life (42) has supernatural significance. I think the intelligent force has a sense of humour.

 

[Sarpedon]

I was trying to get “God” to curse me

Self destructive impulses are bad news. Talk to someone about it.

 

[excreationist]

I took my upside down Bible to church:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Ni1yndxGE[/YOUTUBE]

It was a liberal Bible:
e.g.
It normally has Jesus's words in red, but for things like John 8 they are all black, and the words are in italics...

[The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11. A few manuscripts include these verses, wholly or in part, after John 7:36, John 21:25, Luke 21:38 or Luke 24:53.]

It also doesn't have a passage that seems to support the trinity:
Instead: 1 John 5:7-8 "For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."

It has this in a footnote:

1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)

I talked to the senior pastor and told him that normally pastors say it is just a meaningless coincidence that it was printed upside down. The pastor agreed with me that it seemed meaningful. Unlike the people on a Christian messageboard the pastor agreed that those parts of the Bible were changed or added.

The church's Bible were all the same version as mine! (2011 NIV). So it also had John 8 in italics. My Bible is better though because it has things like colour maps and red text for Jesus's words (except John 8). Their Bibles have a black cover (including their large print Bibles).

The pastor is conservative in some ways though - he is against gay marriage.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I talked to the senior pastor and told him that normally pastors say it is just a meaningless coincidence that it was printed upside down. The pastor agreed with me that it seemed meaningful.

Well, there you go! Just keep asking different people until you get the answers you like.
Or, you could always found your own church.
Of course, this will lead to a holy war in the future, fighting over whether it was printed upside down or bound upsidedown...

 

[Sarpedon]

You would be better off to stick to the other pastors.

 

[excreationist]

You would be better off to stick to the other pastors.

The other pastors are from my parents church and I see them about twice a year. This one is from my church and he liked my Bible youtube video on facebook and he visited me twice when I was in hospital.

 

[Sarpedon]

It is nice that he takes the time to see you. I'm glad you have someone who checks in on you. However, it is irresponsible for him to encourage your, frankly, delusional belief that a misprint is a message from the divine.

Before she died, my grandmother had the belief that the pastor who lived next door spoke to her through her television. I would have considered it very irresponsible had anyone reinforced this view.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Gotta agree with Sarpedon.
But, I also wonder if he's really supporting you or if you only see what you want to?
When he said, "That seems meaningful," did he know you thought it was a message from God?

 

[excreationist]

It is nice that he takes the time to see you. I'm glad you have someone who checks in on you. However, it is irresponsible for him to encourage your, frankly, delusional belief that a misprint is a message from the divine.....

In Jonah God is said to communicate with them through the random drawing of straws. The misprint happened to happen very soon after I read another Bible upside down for the first and only time... That is why I say it is very meaningful.
I am saying I think an intelligent force might be involved and I don’t believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God.
What is worse - believing that gay sex is wrong because God said so or that an intelligent force caused me to receive an upside down Bible to show that it was aware of me reading a Bible upside down before? I’m saying there are worse delusions that a pastor could encourage.

 

[abaddon]

In Jonah God is said to communicate with them through the random drawing of straws. The misprint happened to happen very soon after I read another Bible upside down for the first and only time... That is why I say it is very meaningful.
I am saying I think an intelligent force might be involved and I don’t believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God.
What is worse - believing that gay sex is wrong because God said so or that an intelligent force caused me to receive an upside down Bible to show that it was aware of me reading a Bible upside down before?

If the latter is from the onset of schizophrenia, then it's by far the worse.

What kind of intelligent force would give a damn that you'd held a Bible upside down?

Your bible was not misprinted or printed upside down. I used to work in printing. Upside down covers happen now and again because it's largely an automated process and if a cover runs through the machines upside down then it's going to get "bound" ("glued") to the text upside down. What'd be unusual is if this didn't happen to some books. It's not uncommon. It merely got past the quality control.

 

[excreationist]

....What is worse - believing that gay sex is wrong because God said so or that an intelligent force caused me to receive an upside down Bible to show that it was aware of me reading a Bible upside down before?

If the latter is from the onset of schizophrenia, then it's by far the worse.

In the latter scenario, I told people on Facebook, messageboards and church about my Bible. When it was in person I'd hand them the Bible and say that it was special and I wanted them to check it out. I'd say that I didn't think it was just a meaningless printing issue even though they often thought that. (then I'd also show them a photo of the connect four set).
In the other scenario the person is sure that gay sex is wrong and believe that the creator of the universe says so. Depending on when in history this person was they might insist that gay sex be against the law, perhaps even have the death penalty like the OT says. For them it isn't just their opinion, it is the Truth.

What kind of intelligent force would give a damn that you'd held a Bible upside down?

Well I talked to my sister about this and I said that maybe "God" has a sense of humour (see also my connection between connect four and 42). An intelligent force with a sense of humour could be less dangerous than one that is easily offended. Also it means that the intelligent force wants to connect with me on a friendly level, like Keith&Co's post in #189 rather than being stuck-up.

Your bible was not misprinted or printed upside down. I used to work in printing. Upside down covers happen now and again because it's largely an automated process and if a cover runs through the machines upside down then it's going to get "bound" ("glued") to the text upside down. What'd be unusual is if this didn't happen to some books. It's not uncommon. It merely got past the quality control.

Yes most people just think it is a meaningless accident (however it happened) - but this is the first time I've ever come across a book printed upside down and the first time I've read a book upside down. People often say that a belief in God takes some faith - all I've concluded is that I think there is an intelligent force in my life from time to time with a sense of humour. Unlike most Christians I don't conclude that Mary was a virgin and Jesus rose from the dead, etc.

 

[excreationist]

It is nice that he takes the time to see you. I'm glad you have someone who checks in on you. However, it is irresponsible for him to encourage your, frankly, delusional belief that a misprint is a message from the divine.

BTW I showed him a photo of the connect 4 set and he put his foot down - he wasn't prepared to believe that that set originally had the wrong number of pieces. If there is an intelligent force that interacts with the universe and can do minor things besides just incredible miracles then I don't see why this synchronicity must be a delusion.

Before she died, my grandmother had the belief that the pastor who lived next door spoke to her through her television. I would have considered it very irresponsible had anyone reinforced this view.

I can't prove that an intelligent force helped lead my Bible to arrive upside down and led the connect four set to arrive with the wrong number of pieces (but still 42 in total). As far as the "problem of evil" goes, I think God could be good but isn't really omnipotent... (after all my experiences didn't involve big miracles)

 

[excreationist]

BTW many years ago there was also another thing I found in a hospital that seemed supernatural - when I first got into the hospital I found an interesting magazine:
https://sky-walker.net/temp/test2/netcomputing.jpg

"IEEE Internet Computing March - April 1997" (note I have scans of these that are about 4000 x 6000)

There was an interesting ad in the back:

https://sky-walker.net/temp/test2/lucent2.jpg

I kept the magazine. I lost it but then I got my sister to get me a copy.

If it wasn't for me, the scan of the ad wouldn't have been on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucent

Introducing (drumroll) Inferno networking software... a new Bell Labs innovation. First operating system that lets all kinds of devices chat or share info with each other over any network (Internet, telecommunications, LANS, et al). Now the video game can talk to the computer; cell phone can access e-mail; voice mail via TV, etc. (Really) Download Inferno from Lucent home page today - develop apps a.s.a.p. Could change the way you work - all together.

With my help, the Lucent wikipedia article reads "...This same linguistic root also gives Lucifer..."


It says it was founded in September 1996 - a few months before the ad. Also sometimes Lucent was based in 666 Fifth Avenue New York.


I'm just saying that Lucent seemed to have an interest in Dante's poems (including the Lucifer character). I also found their technology to be very ahead of its time and if I hadn't had come across that ad it probably would have never been as well known as it is now.

 

[excreationist]

Gotta agree with Sarpedon.
But, I also wonder if he's really supporting you or if you only see what you want to?
When he said, "That seems meaningful," did he know you thought it was a message from God?

Yes of course he thinks I meant God - I mean it doesn't make sense that a human working for the printer would do it deliberately with the knowledge of how I have read a Bible upside down. When I was showing him 1 John 5:7-8 he said something like that it is a good passage for me. He said that because around that passage it is about the question of what Jesus means to me. (and I said I don't really believe that Jesus rose from the dead)

 

[Keith&Co.]

Gotta agree with Sarpedon.
But, I also wonder if he's really supporting you or if you only see what you want to?
When he said, "That seems meaningful," did he know you thought it was a message from God?

Yes of course he thinks I meant God -

Well, that would be an important detail in deciding if he's just humoring you. He might have thought it was a message from a guardian angel, or a deceased relative, or maybe he thought it was a meaningless coincidence but if it brought YOU to God, all the better.

I mean it doesn't make sense that a human working for the printer ...

Yeah, that's not the ONLY OTHER explanation that may have been in this discussion.

There was a guy on the forum a few years back, used to ask God questions and then snap his eyes towards a digital clock. Certain numbers in the seconds display meant yes, some meant no.
Made sense to him, looked about as significant as a Magic 8 Ball to most everyone else.

When I think of messages from God, I think of Paul's vision on the road to Damascus. Something absolutely beyond the possibility of meaningless coincidence. Casting a tarot fortune and every card turning up as the 6 of Swords, say. Or a compass that points North South-West. A hulled ship but water doesn't run in through the hole.

Something that COULD be as simple as the QA inspector had a fight with her boyfriend last night and she's continuing the argument in her head, that's not much in the way of divine attention.