"They all worship the same God"

[hinduwoman]

https://www.himalayanacademy.com/readlearn/basics/fourteen-questions/fourteenq_1

Question One: Why does Hinduism have so many Gods?

A: Hindus all believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers.


Longer answer: Contrary to prevailing misconceptions, Hindus all worship a one Supreme Being, though by different names. This is because the peoples of India with different languages and cultures have understood the one God in their own distinct way. Through history there arose four principal Hindu denominations—Saivism, Shaktism, Vaishnavism and Smartism. For Sai-vites, God is Siva. For Shaktas, Goddess Shakti is supreme. For Vaishnavites, Lord Vishnu is God. For Smartas—who see all Deities as reflections of the One God—the choice of Deity is left to the devotee. This liberal Smarta perspective is well known, but it is not the prevailing Hindu view. Due to this diversity, Hindus are profoundly tolerant of other religions, respecting the fact that each has its own pathway to the one God.

As others pointed out, that is one view of Hinduism, though it is becoming more dominant nowadays. That is mostly because it is more a portable concept, extremely useful with Hindus migrating all over the world; and it is a retort to Christianity, a colonial hangover.

But even if that view is true, how does it mean it is the Allah of Islam? In Hinduism, Islam would be just another sect with Mohummad completely mistaken about its nature and demands.

 

[hinduwoman]

It is the believer who endows their own God with aspects and features. Mohammed and his followers wanted his religion to be accepted by the followers of Judaism, and probably used the OT for that purpose, but his version of God was a product of his own imagination, as it is for the Jews and Christians and various cults and offshoots of both religions. Obviously there are archetypal qualities that are attributed to God as the Creator of the World (Omniscience, Omnipotence, etc), and as these overlapping Archetypal attributes happen to overlap, as overlap they must, some claim that ''all worship the same God'' - but this is not necessarily true. In fact, for the outlined reasons, it is not true.

So? If the same material is recycled and acknowledged as blatant plagiarism, then it is the same thing at source.

 

[DBT]

It is the believer who endows their own God with aspects and features. Mohammed and his followers wanted his religion to be accepted by the followers of Judaism, and probably used the OT for that purpose, but his version of God was a product of his own imagination, as it is for the Jews and Christians and various cults and offshoots of both religions. Obviously there are archetypal qualities that are attributed to God as the Creator of the World (Omniscience, Omnipotence, etc), and as these overlapping Archetypal attributes happen to overlap, as overlap they must, some claim that ''all worship the same God'' - but this is not necessarily true. In fact, for the outlined reasons, it is not true.

So? If the same material is recycled and acknowledged as blatant plagiarism, then it is the same thing at source.

What exactly is the source? Human thought and imagination? Or an actual Entity, an actual ''God'' which has the attributes that are being worshiped, albeit in different forms? And...how do we determine the difference?

 

[dystopian]

What exactly is the source? Human thought and imagination? Or an actual Entity, an actual ''God'' which has the attributes that are being worshiped, albeit in different forms? And...how do we determine the difference?

It doesn't matter; not for the topic of discussion anyway. It doesn't matter if the source is some crazy dude 3000 years ago high on mushrooms; or an actual god that spoke to said dude. What matters is that the different religions can be traced back to the same source; hence they worship the same god; just like three different batman fanatics are still fans of the same character, even though one swears by Christian Bale's version, another by Michael Keaton's version, and the third sticks to the classic Adam West.

 

[Keith&Co.]

let me say this all religions agree there is ONLY one god

Look into the LDS, Syed. They promise that all Mormons will eventually become Gods of their own worlds.

 

[DBT]

What exactly is the source? Human thought and imagination? Or an actual Entity, an actual ''God'' which has the attributes that are being worshiped, albeit in different forms? And...how do we determine the difference?

It doesn't matter; not for the topic of discussion anyway. It doesn't matter if the source is some crazy dude 3000 years ago high on mushrooms; or an actual god that spoke to said dude. What matters is that the different religions can be traced back to the same source; hence they worship the same god; just like three different batman fanatics are still fans of the same character, even though one swears by Christian Bale's version, another by Michael Keaton's version, and the third sticks to the classic Adam West.

But that's not what happens. People have probably looked for explanations for the existence of the world from the moment we were able to think and ask questions. Given the complexity of the world, the general assumption has been ''it must have been Created'' - and from this starting point - the world has been created - the basic ideas of what attributes this Creator must have: very powerful/omnipotent, very smart/omniscient, etc, and upon this basic layer are built the social demands and requirements of their God, or gods.

There is no single specific/objective God as a starting point, just the initial assumption of Creation, and the layers of attributes that are added over time. So the process of working out the nature of God is related to the thoughts and the culture of specific tribes and cultures, and not related to any single external source such as an actual God that 'everyone worships.'

This is basically the reason why the God of Islam is not identical to the God of Judaism nor are these two versions identical to the God of Christianity, all of which are far removed from the Hindus Deity, the Greek God Zeus, the Ra of the Egyptians, etc, etc.

 

[dystopian]

There is no single specific/objective God as a starting point,

Which isn't relevant since each individual god as worshipped by humans today either DID have a specific and identifiable starting point, or is clearly derived from a specific tradition. Which is what we're talking about.

This is basically the reason why the God of Islam is not identical to the God of Judaism nor are these two versions identical to the God of Christianity, all of which are far removed from the Hindus Deity, the Greek God Zeus, the Ra of the Egyptians, etc, etc.

And this would be relevant if someone was saying Islam's interpretation of their god is identical to that of Judaism and Christianity. Since nobody's claiming that, it's not relevant. "Worshipping the same god" DOES NOT EQUATE to "Having an identical interpretation of the same god". Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all clearly identifiable as being part of an overarching mythological tradition, their beliefs all belonging to the same tree; just different branches thereof. Therefore, they worship the same god; even if that god doesn't look the same to you.

 

[Underseer]

Syed, did you convert to Baha'i while we weren't looking?

 

[DBT]

Which isn't relevant since each individual god as worshipped by humans today either DID have a specific and identifiable starting point, or is clearly derived from a specific tradition. Which is what we're talking about.

Gosh...here I was thinking the discussion was related to the OP topic - "They all worship the same God" - which happens to be precisely what I was talking about.

And this would be relevant if someone was saying Islam's interpretation of their god is identical to that of Judaism and Christianity. Since nobody's claiming that, it's not relevant. "Worshipping the same god" DOES NOT EQUATE to "Having an identical interpretation of the same god". Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all clearly identifiable as being part of an overarching mythological tradition, their beliefs all belonging to the same tree; just different branches thereof. Therefore, they worship the same god; even if that god doesn't look the same to you.

You are equivocating. Firstly, many, if not most, Christians most probably disagree with the proposition that their God is in fact the God of Islam, that they are one and the same God.
Secondly, no religion has actually established the existence of their God, or any form of God. So what thy are actually worshiping is the idea of God, an idea of God that has different a different character and set of attributes between religions and between factions within a particular religion.

So what is actually being worshiped is not the same God - "They all worship the same God" - but set of idea's related to the concept of 'God.' Sets of ideas that are often in contradiction to that of other faiths, but with a few common elements.

So, in relation to the OP, I am saying that ''they are not all worshiping the same God.''

 

[dystopian]

Gosh...here I was thinking the discussion was related to the OP topic - "They all worship the same God" - which happens to be precisely what I was talking about.

But you seem to be making the mistake of thinking that because the different religions don't have identical interpretations of god, that therefore they're not worshipping the same god.

You are equivocating. Firstly, many, if not most, Christians most probably disagree with the proposition that their God is in fact the God of Islam, that they are one and the same God.

Which isn't relevant. No doubt there are many James Bond fans who disagree with the proposition that anybody but Sean Connery can be James Bond. Doesn't change the fact that many people have played the role of James Bond.

Secondly, no religion has actually established the existence of their God, or any form of God. So what thy are actually worshiping is the idea of God, an idea of God that has different a different character and set of attributes between religions and between factions within a particular religion.

Which again, isn't particularly relevant (especially since most christians don't even know the first thing about their own religion's origins. Now if all theologians and historians would disagree, that'd be relevant. Trouble is, they kind of mostly all agree with those of us saying they're worshipping the same god) Batman is a fictional character too, with many different versions of him floating about. Even so, they are all batman.

So what is actually being worshiped is not the same God - "They all worship the same God" - but set of idea's related to the concept of 'God.' Sets of ideas that are often in contradiction to that of other faiths, but with a few common elements.

No, they DO worship the same god; just like batman fans are all fans of the same fictional character no matter which version they like. They all just disagree on which aspects of him are canonical.

 

[DBT]

But you seem to be making the mistake of thinking that because the different religions don't have identical interpretations of god, that therefore they're not worshipping the same god.

As it has yet to be established that a God exists, it is a mistake to assume that they are worshiping any sort of God, yet alone the same God.

All we have to work with are a collection of contradictory sets of attributes, with a few common elements. This ALONE is insufficient to establish the proposition that they are ''all worshiping the same God''

Given that all we only have a collection of contradictory features that attributed to the idea of 'God,' and not the actual objective established Entity which is God, what believers are worshiping is not 'the same God' but their own idea of God. An idea of 'God' which may or may not happen to share a few archetypal elements in common with other versions (faith based) of the idea of 'God' - therefore not the same God, but merely a set of common features.

 

[Bronzeage]

I still dispute this. In the case of Christianity and Islam, we have two interpretations that can very clearly be traced to the same source. Compare it to the many different versions of batman we have; just because they can be pretty different from each other, doesn't mean they're not all still batman; they're obviously just different versions of the original character. This isn't really the case with the Hindu gods; and not all Hindu sects buy into the idea that there is a single god of which all others are mere aspects.

It is the believer who endows their own God with aspects and features. Mohammed and his followers wanted his religion to be accepted by the followers of Judaism, and probably used the OT for that purpose, but his version of God was a product of his own imagination, as it is for the Jews and Christians and various cults and offshoots of both religions. Obviously there are archetypal qualities that are attributed to God as the Creator of the World (Omniscience, Omnipotence, etc), and as these overlapping Archetypal attributes happen to overlap, as overlap they must, some claim that ''all worship the same God'' - but this is not necessarily true. In fact, for the outlined reasons, it is not true.

Lets assume FSA, God exists as an omnipotent entity, which created all of the universe, including humans. Which of these two's nature can be altered by the thoughts of the other?

 

[DBT]

It is the believer who endows their own God with aspects and features. Mohammed and his followers wanted his religion to be accepted by the followers of Judaism, and probably used the OT for that purpose, but his version of God was a product of his own imagination, as it is for the Jews and Christians and various cults and offshoots of both religions. Obviously there are archetypal qualities that are attributed to God as the Creator of the World (Omniscience, Omnipotence, etc), and as these overlapping Archetypal attributes happen to overlap, as overlap they must, some claim that ''all worship the same God'' - but this is not necessarily true. In fact, for the outlined reasons, it is not true.

Lets assume FSA, God exists as an omnipotent entity, which created all of the universe, including humans. Which of these two's nature can be altered by the thoughts of the other?

Not sure what you mean. I can interpret your remark in several ways.

 

[Bronzeage]

Lets assume FSA, God exists as an omnipotent entity, which created all of the universe, including humans. Which of these two's nature can be altered by the thoughts of the other?

Not sure what you mean. I can interpret your remark in several ways.

FSA=for sake of argument. If there is a God who created man, the thoughts of God can change man, but the thoughts of man can never change God.

The argument that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God because some Muslims do not behave in similar ways to some Christians is as valid as saying atheists are not atheists because they do not behave the way we expect atheists to behave.

 

[DBT]

Not sure what you mean. I can interpret your remark in several ways.

FSA=for sake of argument. If there is a God who created man, the thoughts of God can change man, but the thoughts of man can never change God.

The argument that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God because some Muslims do not behave in similar ways to some Christians is as valid as saying atheists are not atheists because they do not behave the way we expect atheists to behave.

Theists would probably object to that by saying; 'God does not change man through the power of His thoughts because that would violate our free will.''

 

[Bronzeage]

FSA=for sake of argument. If there is a God who created man, the thoughts of God can change man, but the thoughts of man can never change God.

The argument that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God because some Muslims do not behave in similar ways to some Christians is as valid as saying atheists are not atheists because they do not behave the way we expect atheists to behave.

Theists would probably object to that by saying; 'God does not change man through the power of His thoughts because that would violate our free will.''

Which would just be another example of man being wrong. Going with the FSA God, man only exists in God's thoughts. The inability to imagine a God which can know everything and still allow free will is a human failing, not a God failing.

 

[dystopian]

As it has yet to be established that a God exists, it is a mistake to assume that they are worshiping any sort of God, yet alone the same God.

As it has yet to be established that Batman exists, it is a mistake to assume batman fans are in fact fans of any sort of caped crusader, let alone the same one.

 

[DBT]

Theists would probably object to that by saying; 'God does not change man through the power of His thoughts because that would violate our free will.''

Which would just be another example of man being wrong. Going with the FSA God, man only exists in God's thoughts. The inability to imagine a God which can know everything and still allow free will is a human failing, not a God failing.

I think that Theists may also object to the idea that 'man only exists in God's thoughts.' The idea of Hell as a separation from God is an example of independent existence. But I suppose it depends on their ideas and definitions of God. Some believe that God and His Creation are separate and distinct entities, just as a potter from the pot he made.

 

[DBT]

As it has yet to be established that a God exists, it is a mistake to assume that they are worshiping any sort of God, yet alone the same God.

As it has yet to be established that Batman exists, it is a mistake to assume batman fans are in fact fans of any sort of caped crusader, let alone the same one.

What does the same one mean? If in one version of the story, Batman lives in Gotham city and drives a black bat mobile, but another version he lives in New York City, wears a business suit while fighting crime and drives a gold Porsche, are they both the same Batman? Or to put it another way, if you change your broom head several times and your broom handle a few times, is it the same broom?

 

[dystopian]

What does the same one mean? If in one version of the story, Batman lives in Gotham city and drives a black bat mobile, but another version he lives in New York City, wears a business suit while fighting crime and drives a gold Porsche, are they both the same Batman? Or to put it another way, if you change your broom head several times and your broom handle a few times, is it the same broom?

Batman is still batman, even if you make big changes to him. Again; two different interpretations of batman (or god) may not be "identical", but they *are* the same character.