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Pro-Lifer says, "Let them die if it costs me money"

Keith&Co. said:
lpetrich said:
From the third item and JH's research, many right-wingers' complacency about COVID-19 is thus very anomalous.
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well, no matter how weaselly Trump actually phrased it, many of them certainly THOUGHT he said that C-19 is a hoax.
Thus they're able to slot any Democrat action into a big conspiracy yarn, where not masking, not 'socialist distancing,' not staying at home is more heroic.
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Well, for something that he didn't think was a hoax, he didn't seem to do much of anything about the crisis he knew about all along.
 
Dr. Oz says reopening schools is an 'appetizing opportunity' because only 2%-3% will die - The Daily Kos

Let's look at how many people were killed as a result of the actions of some notable Communist leaders.
[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD]Who[/TD]
[TD]Population[/TD]
[TD]Deaths[/TD]
[TD]Fraction[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Joseph Stalin (Soviet Union)[/TD]
[TD]180M[/TD]
[TD]7M[/TD]
[TD]4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mao Zedong (China)[/TD]
[TD]736M[/TD]
[TD]77M[/TD]
[TD]10%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pol Pot (Cambodia)[/TD]
[TD]7.8M[/TD]
[TD]2.2M[/TD]
[TD]30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kim dynasty (North Korea)[/TD]
[TD]14M[/TD]
[TD]2.3M[/TD]
[TD]16%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Sources:
 
For a Doctor, he isn't particularly careful with what he says. He doesn't say what the post above claims, but he doesn't not say it either. Here is the quote.

[quote="Dr." Oz (my emphasis)]Let’s start with things that are really critical to the nation where we think we might be able to open without getting into a lot of trouble. I tell you, schools are a very appetizing opportunity. I just saw a nice piece in The Lancet arguing the opening of schools may only cost us 2 to 3% in terms of total mortality. You know, any life is a life lost, but to get every child back into school where they’re being safely educated, and fed, and making the most out of their lives—with the theoretical risk on the backside—that might be a tradeoff some folks would consider.[/quote]This is more of that right-wing talk mechanism that I am now going to label... Pass-It-Off Speech, ie they are passing off their ideas and thoughts onto others in order to sell the concept but be able to say down the road that, "I never said we should do that... I said other people might consider it." Trump uses this all of the damn time. It seems to be catching on.

Which kind of also defeats the whole purpose of being on television in the first place as some sort of medical authority.

Sean Hannity: And now to discuss what other people might be thinking we have Dr. Oz in the studio. Dr. Oz, welcome to the show and can you please tell us what you think other people are thinking about what is happening?

Dr. Oz: Thanks Sean, thanks for having me. I think what some other people are thinking about the Covid-19 epidemic is just how much longer they need to be inside. Others might be thinking we should open schools. According to a recent Lancet study I misread, about 2 to 3% of the country would die is we open schools up.

Sean Hannity: Interesting. What do you think other people think about that?

Dr. Oz: I think other people might consider it.

Sean Hannity: Do you have any opinions on it yourself?

Dr. Oz: Oh, I can't do that, I'd be put back on probation.

And according to lpetrich's link, the Lancet study doesn't remotely say what Dr. Oz suggests. We are seriously getting close to V for Vendetta like propaganda. I suppose we should be grateful that Dr. Oz isn't in Dr. Fauci's position! But then again, Dr. Oz seems to be still working the propaganda machine.
 
Half-Life said:
funinspace said:
No I don't remember that, care to quote something? Probably not...spouting orange shit out of your mouth is probably more fun.

and now there's crickets about it. No war, no disaster.

Stop the fear mongering.
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Yeah, it's just a Democratic hoax....
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You realize that's been debunked, right? He never said the virus is a hoax. He said "The Democrats thinking this will bring me down is the hoax." Just like when Dems thought the Mueller report could bring him down. It didn't. The they thought impeachment would bring him down. It didn't. Now they think corona will bring him down. It won't.

Nevermind the fact that Governor Whitmer of Michigan is going so far with her fascist lockdown that she's facing protestors. Another Democrat bungling the job. Tucker Carlson was just skewering her on Fox News. He said, "She's upset about the protestors...who are protesting peacefully by the way which is their right under the Constitution...but she's too thin skinned to handle it. She kept the weed shops open! Fire up a bowl and deal with it!"
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Here was the part that mattered, not your spinning...

funinspace said:
Half-Life said:
Remember when Trump killed Solemani and all you guys were saying, "THIS IS WORLD WAR 3!!!! THIS IS GONNA BE A DISASTER!!!"
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No I don't remember that, care to quote something? Probably not...spouting orange shit out of your mouth is probably more fun.
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Spin dodge weave...
 
Jimmy from the shore: Sadly, a boat sank yesterday and some of the passengers died. No boat must ever go to sea again until we know for sure they are unsinkable. And before you ask, no ! Not even the little row boats on the pond in two feet of water. Canoes ? Are you fucking stupid ?!! I just told you a boat sank and people died !!!!!!11111!!!!111 !!! You will get to sail when I say so !!
 
Keith&Co. said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
. It'll be out of hand in about 4 weeks and we get to do this all over a again.
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no, we won't go thru this again. If we sitbthru this until it's all better, we'll be exhausted but feel like we accomplished something.
If we come out of the soft shutdown and thousands die, the feeling will be that we suffered znd it still wasn't enough. So the general attitude will be, 'fuck. Why bust your ass? With or without isolation, death just rollerskates thru the population, any old way.'

No one will listen to, 'come on, guys, THIS TIME it'll work! Please?'
They'll be at their favorite bar, ordering a vodka fatalism and toasting absent friends...

Also, 'time was almost up?' The sailor on the Roosevelt that died, how does Swiz know he was a short-timer?
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Afraid you're probably right, Keith.

I've already seen a resurgence of [I'm not a] trumpsuckers saying it's all a hoax, death stats are made up, everyone dies so it's not ALL coronavirus, there's a vast conspiracy including WHO/CDC/big Pharma/tens of thousands of internationally famed doctors and epidemiologists etc.

Not to mention protesters inviting someone to take them at their word that it's okay to commit vehicular homicide on protesters blocking traffic for emergency vehicles... :rolleyes:

My fav is the "whatabout auto accidents? Cancer?" bullshit. In case Halfie, Swiz or Trausti happens across this post, HERE is whatabout that:

DeathGraph.jpg
 
lpetrich said:
I find it remarkable that many right-wingers are complacent about the COVID-19 virus. One would expect them to be especially fearful of it, but they are not.

Why might they be fearful of it? Right-wingers tend to be very fearful, and neurological studies confirm that.
Jonathan Haidt's Five Moral Foundations: Care/Harm, Fairness/Cheating, Loyalty/Betrayal, Authority/Subversion, Sanctity/Degradation

He finds that liberals tend to emphasize the first two more than the other three, and that conservatives are about equal in all five.

From the third item and JH's research, many right-wingers' complacency about COVID-19 is thus very anomalous.
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Except that many conservatives are also heavily driven by greed and/or fealty to free market dogma. So, the economic impact of the shutdown is unacceptable. Plus, the economic harm negatively impacts their "Dear Leader", as does the fact that his incompetence has cost thousands of lives. That motivates them to deny COVID itself is a threat, b/c then Trump did nothing wrong and all the harm is really due to liberals "hysteria" about it. Also, the value conservatives place on "Care" is confined to a much more self-centered and narrow in-group. Basically, if most of the people dying are not known to them personally, they don't care. Plus, while they are more driven by fear, fear of COVID would mean accepting science which they are less likely to do.

I would have bet my life savings that they would act just as they are, b/c plenty of empirical data of their past actions and their underlying values predicts it. It's anomalous the Haidt's theory b/c his theory is wrong and he's wrong in telling liberals that they are wrong about conservatives. The thing he does get correct is that conservatives place much more value than liberals on Authority, Loyalty, and Sanctity, but he concocts excuses to make these seem noble and good. What those values really mean is just that they are driven by selfishness and fearful intolerance. They select the authorities that share their preferences and attack those who disobey and thereby attack different preferences. They define a very narrow self-centered in-group and demand "loyalty" to that group which means willingness to harm those not in it. They define what is "sacred" and "sanctified" according to their own goals and desire to control behavior (such as women's sexuality) and ensure punishment for any words or actions that threaten that control.

And conservatives do not place equal value on "care" as liberals do. Care is in direct competition with those other three values most of the time. You cannot care about people if you are harming them simply for having different preferences than you, or b/c you want to control them, or b/c they don't belong to your inner circle. They care about those for whom it's just a way for caring about their own interests, i.e., their narrow in-group.
 
TSwizzle said:
Jimmy from the shore: Sadly, a boat sank yesterday and some of the passengers died. No boat must ever go to sea again until we know for sure they are unsinkable. And before you ask, no ! Not even the little row boats on the pond in two feet of water. Canoes ? Are you fucking stupid ?!! I just told you a boat sank and people died !!!!!!11111!!!!111 !!! You will get to sail when I say so !!
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A bit wordy.
 
ronburgundy said:
Except that many conservatives are also heavily driven by greed and/or fealty to free market dogma. So, the economic impact of the shutdown is unacceptable.
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That's one way of looking at it I suppose. Another way of looking at it would be that there are hundreds of thousands of small business owners that are facing the absolute destruction of their livelihoods because of the irrational extension of the shutdown. They are not driven by greed, they are driven by survival and they are not necessarily conservative. So yeah, the economic impact of the shutdown is unacceptable.
 
Go ahead - lift all the restrictions. Then when all the businesses open back up and are running at full operating expense with a grand total of 0 customers, will these mouth breathers finally realize that the economy is a result of a pandemic and not the government or will they complain that the government isn't forcing people go out and shop?

aa
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
Half-Life said:
Why do you think Trump will win in a landslide in November?
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As of yesterday:

View attachment 27139
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Odds are definitely stacked against Clownstick right now...'landslide'...ROTFLMAO

Add in hints from the 6 Governor/Senator 2018 races, that blow out FFvC's squeaky win in the 3 state that carried him over:
https://www.thenation.com/article/a...n-pennsylvania-ohio-midterms-trump-democrats/
So Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania were kind of a big deal on November 8, 2016. And, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania were also kind of a big deal on November 6, 2018. The three states had Senate races in which prominent conservatives were challenging supposedly vulnerable Democratic incumbents. The three states also had gubernatorial contests. That’s six major races in the three states that gave Trump the presidency. Democrats won all of them.
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Some of the swing states, with even Arizona leaning towards Biden:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/general-election-swing-states-trump-biden.html
Florida (Biden +6)
Smash the red button at Trump HQ.
Florida—a place known for garish golf resorts, criminal fraud, insanely shortsighted decisions about the coronavirus, and the elderly—has to be the defining state of Trumpism. But there you have it, right there in the University of North Florida’s April 6 press release: Biden 46, Trump 40. And that was among a sample of voters that, according to the UNF poli sci professor who directed the survey, leaned to a “very slight” degree toward having voted for Trump over Clinton in 2016.
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Alcoholic Actuary said:
Go ahead - lift all the restrictions. Then when all the businesses open back up and are running at full operating expense with a grand total of 0 customers, will these mouth breathers finally realize that the economy is a result of a pandemic and not the government or will they complain that the government isn't forcing people go out and shop?

aa
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It seems like you are saying that the forced lock down is not necessary. If people are not going to go to the small businesses anyway, there is no need for an enforced shutdown. But it's not about lifting ALL restrictions. It's about allowing small businesses to act with discretion as to how they can keep their business afloat.
 
lpetrich said:
I find it remarkable that many right-wingers are complacent about the COVID-19 virus. One would expect them to be especially fearful of it, but they are not.
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I suspect there's a correlation that's being overlooked. I suspect (but have no proof) that it's more a case of urban versus rural fear levels than it is political persuasion. COVID is having a devastating effect on urban areas, where social distancing is difficult to maintain and where population density makes transmission very effective. Additionally, stay-at-home orders in urban areas are more likely to be highly disruptive to every day life. For people in more rural settings, there's not as much social contact to begin with, and people tend to be more naturally isolated. It stands to reason that people in urban areas would have a higher level of fear and stress related to COVID than people in rural areas.

I think this is the more likely driver of the difference you're observing, with political preference being a correlated effect than a cause.
 
TSwizzle said:
Alcoholic Actuary said:
Go ahead - lift all the restrictions. Then when all the businesses open back up and are running at full operating expense with a grand total of 0 customers, will these mouth breathers finally realize that the economy is a result of a pandemic and not the government or will they complain that the government isn't forcing people go out and shop?

aa
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It seems like you are saying that the forced lock down is not necessary. If people are not going to go to the small businesses anyway, there is no need for an enforced shutdown. But it's not about lifting ALL restrictions. It's about allowing small businesses to act with discretion as to how they can keep their business afloat.
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It seems like you are saying that since we can't really fix the economy, we might as well make the pandemic more miserable and longer.

aa
 
Half-Life said:
He enacted a travel ban on Feb 2. Pelosi was encouraging people to go to Chinatown on Feb 27 and Fauci was telling us to go party on cruise ships on March 9.

Trump didn't do enough, indeed.
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He enacted a half-assed travel ban that didn't do much of anything. Not only did it not stop Americans (they were supposedly screened, but not adequately--we have examples of people who were cleared despite having symptoms and saying so!) but it was only done after most planes weren't flying anyway. I'm reminded of the cartoon of painting bullseyes around what the guy hit. Besides, most US cases trace back to Europe, not China.

A few places are actually doing it right--nobody gets in without going through quarantine.
 
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