Defunding the Police?

[Derec]

So, we should increase the number of laws and extend the length of sentences until crime is eliminated?

No. Criminal laws should be retaught and those that make no sense should be eliminated. Laws against consensual sex for money? Get rid of them! They serve no purpose - in fact they violate both liberal principle of "my body my choice" and conservative principle of free enterprise. But that does not mean there isn't meaningful regulation necessary to protect participants and bystanders. On the other hand, laws against theft serve a very important purpose.

How do you feel about widespread cameras and recorders, so that we catch every crime? Perhaps AI monitors or "bots" programmed to notice and respond to all crimes automatically with mandatory sentencing? Random stops and seizures "on suspicion" of all citizens at any time regardless of race?

There is still 4th amendment. But what is your point? Do you think criminals should not be prosecuted?

Or is persecuting crime something that needs to, on some level, be balanced against your rights and freedoms as a citizen? If so, it will not be possible to catch and punish every crime consistently.

That does not mean we should throw up our hands and stop using constitutional means to enforce laws and prosecute (not persecute!) crime.

 

[Politesse]

No. Criminal laws should be retaught and those that make no sense should be eliminated. Laws against consensual sex for money? Get rid of them! They serve no purpose - in fact they violate both liberal principle of "my body my choice" and conservative principle of free enterprise. But that does not mean there isn't meaningful regulation necessary to protect participants and bystanders. On the other hand, laws against theft serve a very important purpose.


There is still 4th amendment. But what is your point? Do you think criminals should not be prosecuted?

Or is persecuting crime something that needs to, on some level, be balanced against your rights and freedoms as a citizen? If so, it will not be possible to catch and punish every crime consistently.

That does not mean we should throw up our hands and stop using constitutional means to enforce laws and prosecute (not persecute!) crime.

Not only did I say nothing of the sort, no one has said anything of the sort. But the prosecution of crime can never be complete and total; even states that attempt this, such as the PRC, ultimately fail to control their population utterly, and it comes at the expense of civil rights. So a middle ground must be found.

 

[Derec]

Funding for public education has been steadily increasing for decades.

Evidence: {}

There certainly has been no "defunding" of public education like AOC claims. While there was a dip in the aftermath of the Great Recession, public spending on education is increasing again.

Bigger problem is that schools have been asked to take on decidedly non-educational tasks such as feeding kids, which should really be parental responsibility.

And we spend a lot more money on education than on police.



Then again, your girlfriend has admitted that she doesn't care about being factually correct.

 

[Derec]

Not only did I say nothing of the sort, no one has said anything of the sort.

Didn't you say that we should not prosecute shoplifters?

But the prosecution of crime can never be complete and total;

Duh! Nobody was claiming anything of the sort. But the "defund/abolish police" crowd wants less prosecution of real criminals like robbers, assaulters, carjackers and the like.
Take the idiotic SF DA Chesa Boudin who is even refusing to prosecute even assault with a deadly weapon because the victim is a cop.

 

[Derec]

So you do feel that turning the city into a police state, arresting away all of its problems, would help?

Prosecuting thieves does not mean that one is living in a police state. It just means we are living in a functioning society.

The main reason to have a government in the first place is to protect its citizens - including our property. A government that willfully abdicates that responsibility has abdicated its entire raison d'etre. That's no way to have a civilization!

How? The system is still a revolving door, even if you arrest everyone and keep them behind bars for a few years they still eventually get released and no doubt resume their lives of crime. Emotionally gratifying for the pilfered, I suppose, but how is it supposed to reduce crime?

Well there is the deterrence. A lot more people will decide that stealing is no big deal if they do not have to fear any consequences.
And mind you, those consequences do not necessarily have to be jail time. Petty theft, at least first offense, should be handled with fines and community service, not jail. But it is important to have a record of a conviction. That way, if and when they do it again, consequences can and should be escalated.

 

[Politesse]

Didn't you say that we should not prosecute shoplifters?

I did not, in fact, though I do think making shoplifting a focus of police efforts would be an absurd waste of resources. A losing battle with few real casualties. I've worked in retail myself, and know perfectly well how much shrink occurs in a large store on any given day. You could put officers at every exit and strip search all the customers on their way out, and it still wouldn't accomplish much.

Duh! Nobody was claiming anything of the sort. But the "defund/abolish police" crowd wants less prosecution of real criminals like robbers, assaulters, carjackers and the like.

Whether someone has said that I don't know, but as a general rule the point of "Defund" campaigns is to encourage the prosecution of serious crimes like those you describe, while pursuing less serious issues like drug use and petty theft by other means. Despite the catchy slogan, it's not really that different from the already existing position of the Democratic party on such issues. Which, I gather, you also disapprove of.

Take the idiotic SF DA Chesa Boudin who is even refusing to prosecute even assault with a deadly weapon because the victim is a cop.

Yes, this has been quite the news story around here. The "deadly weapon" was a glass bottle, and the boy was shot, dismembered, and nearly killed for his alleged crime. The disproportionate force used against him resulted in the launch of an inquiry against the officers themselves. Boudin did suspend the charges in the interest of pursuing one investigation at a time, but has indicated that charges may be refiled depending on what the inquiry finds. It's true that the policeman's union is very upset with him, but then they were pretty pissed about his election to begin with. I'm willing to wait and see what happens with the case before rushing to judgment on it, personally.

 

[angelo]

Well, bums pooping on sidewalks with impunity IS pretty embarrassing.
San Francisco’s poop problem is only getting worse


Well first one would need to stop digging the hole even deeper. For example, not electing terrorist spawn like Chesa Boudin as DA.

Case in point. You know how to re-post sensationalist articles about what "libs" are doing wrong, but no suggestion whatsoever as to what one might do better. Most serious measures that have been proposed, you would oppose.

It would, for instance, take care of SF's downtown poop problem overnight if businesses were simply required by law to open up their restrooms for public use, or contrarily if public bathrooms were more frequent and well-maintained. Given that almost all the problem areas are also major tourist spots, either measure would instantly pay for itself in recovered commercial and tax revenue. Public housing projects, rent control problems, and eviction stays would also help, since less people would be homeless in the first place, and people who own toilets don't usually go in the bushes.

Arresting people for pooping isn't a solution, since that both obliges the government to pay for their toiletries directly for a while on the taxpayer's dime, exactly what you lot are supposedly unwilling to do, and puts them right back where they started once they are released a few weeks later, without having addressed the underlying issue. "Well, now that you've had to shit in a metal pipe for a few days, I'm sure you learned your lesson about never shitting in alleys instead. Good luck out there, convicted felon! See you in a few weeks!"

The biggest cause of homelessness is lack of homes. The biggest cause of shit on the streets is lack of toilets. Solving these things isn't a logistical problem, it's a political problem. And you aren't helping either.

You have never walked into a public toilet and found it in such a mess that you would even be afraid to urinate in it in case you catch something? Some folk actually enjoy vandalizing and pooping anywhere but in toilet bowl. It cost's money to employ 24/7 cleaners and police public toilets.

 

[Politesse]

You have never walked into a public toilet and found it in such a mess that you would even be afraid to urinate in it in case you catch something? Some folk actually enjoy vandalizing and pooping anywhere but in toilet bowl. It cost's money to employ 24/7 cleaners and police public toilets.

Ah, so you think the poop problem is purely because of "bad people" who choose poop improperly, rather than being an obvious consequence of a massive homeless population with no access to clean toilets?

Yes, of course it would cost money to solve. Everything worthwhile costs money. Mass incarceration costs a massive amount of money too, much more money than a cleaning lady for a loo. So do more police on the streets. Welcome to the world under capitalism.

But you're proving my point. Conservatives love to criticize liberal projects, but they can't or won't solve shit on their own. They don't even intend to solve problems, just complain about them endlessly and masochistically punish the "bad people" who you blame for them.

 

[lpetrich]

In the NY-16 Democratic primary, Jamaal Bowman has been declared the winner, defeating longtime incumbent there, Eliot Engel, in an upset worthy of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. He is now showing his policy ambitions, and like AOC, I'm glad that he ran.

He is VERY sensible about "defunding" or "shrinking" the police, proposing alternatives to policing, like social workers.

Jamaal Bowman Wants Democrats to Be the “Party of Dismantling Mass Incarceration” - The Appeal

I lived through Bloomberg’s stop-and-frisk era. Police attacked me when I was an 11-year-old boy. I’ve been arrested and accused of stealing my own car, pulled over and handcuffed for not properly signaling, and knocked around by police officers for rough housing with my friends when I was just a kid. ...

Before I founded CASA, I was the dean of students at a high school, where I watched students walking through metal detectors every day, being criminalized for simply existing. As an educator, I saw firsthand how poverty, created by bad policy, results in trauma that builds on top of discriminatory policies like stop-and-frisk policing. If we defund police and shift funding to things like healthcare, wellness, trauma centers, drug and alcohol treatment, peer support networks, and restorative justice programs, we won’t have a need for such a large, militarized police force. We can have fewer cops, and replace them with Crisis Care units of violence interrupters, social workers, and mental health intervention. ...

I lived through the crack era in New York City and saw firsthand how it accelerated mass incarceration. I watched friends and family members suffer, I saw people I loved locked up in cages. No one should be in jail because they suffer from addiction to drugs, and we should be wary of solutions to the war on drugs that expand the criminal legal system and further criminalize low-income people and communities of color. First, we must drop low-level drug offenses, legalize and regulate marijuana and ensure that communities most impacted by the racist war on drugs receive the most benefits from legalization, and clear all prior marijuana convictions. Then, we need to go one step further.

Drug law enforcement should be extremely limited. ...

There has been a sea change on this issue because of long-term social movement building, community organizing, and the past six years of uprisings by the Black Lives Matter movement that are increasingly being translated into candidates like myself being swept into office. The party is changing dramatically from being “tough on crime” in the 1990s to increasingly becoming the party of dismantling mass incarceration through and through. ...

I believe in true, universal suffrage. Evidence shows that disenfranchisement actually exacerbates outcomes for people who are incarcerated. Furthermore, there is absolutely no evidence that disenfranchisement is a deterrent to violent crime. ...

I support Ayanna Pressley’s People’s Justice Guarantee to put justice back in the hands of people directly impacted by generations of oppression and mass incarceration. ...

Combating human trafficking in the sex trade is a serious issue, but SESTA/FOSTA puts sex workers, people who are disproportionately LGBTQ and people of color, at risk and make it more difficult to access health and social services. People whose work involves consensual sex should not be put in harm’s way. ...

 

[Derec]

In the NY-16 Democratic primary, Jamaal Bowman has been declared the winner, defeating longtime incumbent there, Eliot Engel, in an upset worthy of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. He is now showing his policy ambitions, and like AOC, I'm glad that he ran.

They are both disasters for the country!

He is VERY sensible about "defunding" or "shrinking" the police, proposing alternatives to policing, like social workers.

Social workers have their place, but they are hardly alternatives to policing.

I lived through Bloomberg’s stop-and-frisk era. Police attacked me when I was an 11-year-old boy. I’ve been arrested and accused of stealing my own car, pulled over and handcuffed for not properly signaling, and knocked around by police officers for rough housing with my friends when I was just a kid. ...

Cool story bro. But it is understandable that the police would be skeptical that an 11 year old boy would own a car...

Before I founded CASA, I was the dean of students at a high school, where I watched students walking through metal detectors every day, being criminalized for simply existing.

If a school has metal detectors, it's because there have been problems with students bringing weapons into the schools. But of course, those students are not at fault - metal detector are.

If we defund police and shift funding to things like healthcare, wellness, trauma centers, drug and alcohol treatment, peer support networks, and restorative justice programs, we won’t have a need for such a large, militarized police force. We can have fewer cops, and replace them with Crisis Care units of violence interrupters, social workers, and mental health intervention. ...

Democrats are officially lost if they prefer this idiot to Eliot Engel. He will fit well with that fellow intellectual 20W bulb, AOC.

I lived through the crack era in New York City and saw firsthand how it accelerated mass incarceration.

I wonder if he dabbled.

I watched friends and family members suffer, I saw people I loved locked up in cages. No one should be in jail because they suffer from addiction to drugs, and we should be wary of solutions to the war on drugs that expand the criminal legal system and further criminalize low-income people and communities of color. First, we must drop low-level drug offenses, legalize and regulate marijuana and ensure that communities most impacted by the racist war on drugs receive the most benefits from legalization, and clear all prior marijuana convictions. Then, we need to go one step further.

I agree with the bolded, but disagree with his obsession with making everything about race.

Drug law enforcement should be extremely limited. ...

There are drugs that should remain prohibited. Heroin, crack, meth for example. And therefore, there will be a continuing need for robust drug enforcement. Bowman's views are extremely naive.

There has been a sea change on this issue because of long-term social movement building, community organizing, and the past six years of uprisings by the Black Lives Matter movement that are increasingly being translated into candidates like myself being swept into office. The party is changing dramatically from being “tough on crime” in the 1990s to increasingly becoming the party of dismantling mass incarceration through and through. ...

#BLM movement is anti-police and pro-thug. Is it any wonder that #BLM-approved candidates are likewise anti-police and pro-thug?
It is necessary to be tough on serious crime. Shootings and homicides are increasing in NYC and this fool is talking about how being tough on crime is bad and that more violent criminals should be on the streets and not in prison. Boy, bye.

I believe in true, universal suffrage.Evidence shows that disenfranchisement actually exacerbates outcomes for people who are incarcerated. Furthermore, there is absolutely no evidence that disenfranchisement is a deterrent to violent crime. ...

Incarceration itself is the deterrent. Not letting felons vote until they have served out their full sentence is not so much about deterrence, but about preventing politicians from pandering to felons.
That Democrats rely so much on votes by felons is very telling.

Combating human trafficking in the sex trade is a serious issue, but SESTA/FOSTA puts sex workers, people who are disproportionately LGBTQ and people of color, at risk and make it more difficult to access health and social services. People whose work involves consensual sex should not be put in harm’s way. ...

Ok, we agree on that too. Two things ain't bad. Except for trying to make it a race issue again. The man is obsessed.

 

[Derec]

I did not, in fact,

I think you did, but maybe you didn't mean to.

When you wrote this:

So you do feel that turning the city into a police state, arresting away all of its problems, would help? How? The system is still a revolving door, even if you arrest everyone and keep them behind bars for a few years they still eventually get released and no doubt resume their lives of crime. Emotionally gratifying for the pilfered, I suppose, but how is it supposed to reduce crime?

It was in response to this:

When a city incentives lawlessness and disorder, those who favor law and order - the people who generate the economic activity and wealth - will leave. E.g., the city prosecutor will not prosecute minor theft. The result is a downtown drug store closed because it was subjected to daily shoplifting.

Trausti mentioned how a prosecutor will no longer prosecute shoplifters, and you replied with a claim that going after shoplifters is tantamount to a "police state".

If you misspoke, please clarify.

though I do think making shoplifting a focus of police efforts would be an absurd waste of resources. A losing battle with few real casualties.

Nobody said it should be a focus, but when you arrest thieves, they should be prosecuted. Otherwise you send a message that it's ok to steal.

I've worked in retail myself, and know perfectly well how much shrink occurs in a large store on any given day. You could put officers at every exit and strip search all the customers on their way out, and it still wouldn't accomplish much.

Not a reason not to prosecute those that do get caught.

Whether someone has said that I don't know, but as a general rule the point of "Defund" campaigns is to encourage the prosecution of serious crimes like those you describe, while pursuing less serious issues like drug use and petty theft by other means. Despite the catchy slogan, it's not really that different from the already existing position of the Democratic party on such issues. Which, I gather, you also disapprove of.

There is a big difference between somebody using some weed and somebody stealing something that isn't theirs. There are good reasons why weed (and sex work for that matter) should be decriminalized. There are zero good reasons to stealing to be decriminalized.

Yes, this has been quite the news story around here. The "deadly weapon" was a glass bottle,

Unlike in movies, where they use prop bottles made of sugar, being smacked with a real glass bottle is very dangerous. Jamaica Hampton should be charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

and the boy was shot,

First of all, he was 24 at the time, so hardly a "boy". Second of all, the cops were defending themselves from attack.

dismembered, and nearly killed for his alleged crime.

"Dismembered" is needlessly theatrical. His leg was amputated.
And the crime was captured on video. He clearly attacked those cops for no reason.

The disproportionate force used against him resulted in the launch of an inquiry against the officers themselves.

First of all, it was not "disproportionate". St. Jamaica used something classified as a deadly weapon, hence use of lethal force was quite proportionate.
Second, of course the cop-hater Boudin wants to go after the cops or defending themselves and doing their jobs. His own parents murdered cops.

Boudin did suspend the charges in the interest of pursuing one investigation at a time, but has indicated that charges may be refiled depending on what the inquiry finds.

That's a pretty silly excuse. And besides, it's been months now. He dropped the charges in January, for fuck's sake!

It's true that the policeman's union is very upset with him, but then they were pretty pissed about his election to begin with. I'm willing to wait and see what happens with the case before rushing to judgment on it, personally.

Six months since he withdrew charges to focus on his witch hunt against the cops is hardly "rushing to judgment".

 

[Derec]

Black Lives Matter activist attacked two NYC cops with a cane, leaving them bloodied.

Woman charged in cane attack on NYC cops celebrates after making bail

 

[lpetrich]

Peter Wade * on Twitter: "Trump interrupts interview to show proof that Biden plans to defund the police. It did not go well https://t.co/ZwEwFpmcOg" / Twitter
then
Samantha Power on Twitter: "Chris Wallace on what happened when he corrected Trump’s claim that #JoeBiden had pledged to defund police: defiant Trump went thru 100-page-Biden-Sanders agt highlights & “couldn’t find any indication-because there isn’t any-that Biden has sought to defund & abolish the police.”" / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

The Wall Street Journal on Twitter: "In lawsuits and interviews, African-American officers say they have been victims of ‘the same hell’ as many who have been mistreated by law enforcement." / Twitter
noting
Black Officers Say Discrimination Abounds, Complicating Reform Efforts - WSJ

Detective Luther Hall was working undercover during protests that gripped St. Louis in 2017 following the police shooting of a black man, when several officers in riot gear rushed up to him.

Before Mr. Hall, who is black, could comply with their demands to get on the ground, he was body slammed by an officer, according to court filings. The 22-year veteran said the white officers punched, kicked and struck him with batons before a SWAT team member recognized him and hustled him away. Mr. Hall later told investigators that his fellow officers “beat the [expletive] out of him like Rodney King,” according to a Federal Bureau of Investigation affidavit.

Though Detective Hall’s case, which has led to federal criminal charges against the officers involved, is extreme, black officers across the country say they commonly face harassment, discrimination and even abuse from their own departments, according to interviews and court filings.

Many black officers said they understood the anger behind nationwide protests initially sparked by the killing of George Floyd. Not only does law enforcement need to change how they police minority communities, these officers said, but departments also need to change how they treat their own minority officers.

*TheXFiles* MASK UP simply means you care on Twitter: "@WSJ As a female who retired from and sued my LE org I can attest to this. ..." / Twitter

As a female who retired from and sued my LE org I can attest to this. In late 19902 women and black officers sued in mass discrimination &hostile work environment based on sex&race all the officers supported everyone else's claim. The State of NJ dished out a lot of money in settlements. We also blew the whistle on a secret racist group w/in the organization,websites run by them&how the minority public was treated,profiled etc. I had hoped all we suffered through then would have changed things. Now I feel things are worse. The experience ruined my life. I had been left alone in a cell w/a prisoner which is against SOP that prisoner attacked my & it took 5 ppl to subdue. I was permanently disabled then retired. I would not have been able to remain in due to hostility. A cops life w/in becomes endangered once you speak out. They call it getting Serpico'd. That is you do not get backup when called for. or you get ambushed. Like leaving someone alone in a holding cell knowing that person is disorderly. It is why cops say nothing. It is not about a blue line it is about ones life.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Being "awash in cash" also created a lot of the problems you are describing, though. Do you really believe that if they brought in the attack dogs and arrested every last protester and all the homeless people, made every crime a life sentence to avoid recidivism, elected Republicans to every civic and state offices, and paid consulting companies to "clean up the streets" downtown with bulldozers and formaldahyde as per 90's style urban renewal projects, that Seattle would become a utopia with even more skyrocketing land value and no social problems?

When a city incentives lawlessness and disorder, those who favor law and order - the people who generate the economic activity and wealth - will leave. E.g., the city prosecutor will not prosecute minor theft. The result is a downtown drug store closed because it was subjected to daily shoplifting.

The entire criminal justice system is broken but the way out is not mass arrests. It is jobs for poor kids. Government sponsored jobs. Mass arrests serve only to institutionalize an underclass.

 

[angelo]

You have never walked into a public toilet and found it in such a mess that you would even be afraid to urinate in it in case you catch something? Some folk actually enjoy vandalizing and pooping anywhere but in toilet bowl. It cost's money to employ 24/7 cleaners and police public toilets.

Ah, so you think the poop problem is purely because of "bad people" who choose poop improperly, rather than being an obvious consequence of a massive homeless population with no access to clean toilets?

Yes, of course it would cost money to solve. Everything worthwhile costs money. Mass incarceration costs a massive amount of money too, much more money than a cleaning lady for a loo. So do more police on the streets. Welcome to the world under capitalism.

But you're proving my point. Conservatives love to criticize liberal projects, but they can't or won't solve shit on their own. They don't even intend to solve problems, just complain about them endlessly and masochistically punish the "bad people" who you blame for them.

There's very little reason for homelessness. Most Western countries have a safety net of public housing and benefits. As an example, a homeless single person gets around $1000 per fortnight government payment here in Australia, plus rent assistance as compared to a couple with their own home who get just over $1400 combined income per fortnight. I'm talking about pensioners and the those who for one reason or another can't work. Of course the dregs of society who smoke and or are winos and perhaps use drugs as well that's chicken feed. There's also public housing available where the homeless can live and they pay a token rent. For those who choose to live in the streets, it may be a choice. And I've seen pig pens cleaner than some public toilets.

 

[Elixir]

Peter Wade ??????* on Twitter: "Trump interrupts interview to show proof that Biden plans to defund the police. It did not go well https://t.co/ZwEwFpmcOg" / Twitter

Let's face it - Trump and his acolytes are not the sharpest tools in the shed. He reasons, in his simpleton sort of way, that vilifying his opponent worked last time so it should work this time. He has forgotten that the economy (outside of the NASDAQ) is in the tank, unemployment is at a hundred year high and there's a pandemic killing hundreds of thousands of people, more than a quarter of whom are Americans due to his utter incapacity and stated unwillingness to lead or take any responsibility.
Forgetting/denying trivia like that has always been a strength for him, so he seems a bit surprised that so many people still insist that the economy (outside of the NASDAQ) is in the tank, unemployment is at a hundred year high and there's a pandemic killing hundreds of thousands of people, more than a quarter of whom are Americans. Kinda like how angelo seems surprised that most Americans would prefer a sleepy-eyed commie groper who plans to abolish all law enforcement.
Both angelo and The Donald probably figure that if The Trump Secret Police can kidnap enough of the haters, everything will be just fine.

 

[Politesse]

You have never walked into a public toilet and found it in such a mess that you would even be afraid to urinate in it in case you catch something? Some folk actually enjoy vandalizing and pooping anywhere but in toilet bowl. It cost's money to employ 24/7 cleaners and police public toilets.

Ah, so you think the poop problem is purely because of "bad people" who choose poop improperly, rather than being an obvious consequence of a massive homeless population with no access to clean toilets?

Yes, of course it would cost money to solve. Everything worthwhile costs money. Mass incarceration costs a massive amount of money too, much more money than a cleaning lady for a loo. So do more police on the streets. Welcome to the world under capitalism.

But you're proving my point. Conservatives love to criticize liberal projects, but they can't or won't solve shit on their own. They don't even intend to solve problems, just complain about them endlessly and masochistically punish the "bad people" who you blame for them.

There's very little reason for homelessness. Most Western countries have a safety net of public housing and benefits. As an example, a homeless single person gets around $1000 per fortnight government payment here in Australia, plus rent assistance as compared to a couple with their own home who get just over $1400 combined income per fortnight. I'm talking about pensioners and the those who for one reason or another can't work. Of course the dregs of society who smoke and or are winos and perhaps use drugs as well that's chicken feed. There's also public housing available where the homeless can live and they pay a token rent. For those who choose to live in the streets, it may be a choice. And I've seen pig pens cleaner than some public toilets.

That's wonderful, but San Francisco is not in Australia.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

That old and trusted saying of do the crime do the time has never been more appropriate than right now. Relax the law by even just a small percentage point would see the crime rate skyrocket to unprecedented levels.

I marvel at how right-wingers are eager to defend government coercion. It's almost as if they are too lazy to protect themselves. Considering what right-wingers feel about taxes, one gets the impression that they want government protection for free, contrary to their loud assertion that nothing is ever free. It is also contrary to their loud assertion that government can never do anything right.

It is the outcome of not having enough philosophy to compare ideas.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Didn't answer my question. I find that folks on the right love to criticize the managment of the nation's most prosperous and popular cities, presumably out of embarassment,

Well, bums pooping on sidewalks with impunity IS pretty embarrassing.
San Francisco’s poop problem is only getting worse

but are short on actual solutions to the problems they pose.

Well first one would need to stop digging the hole even deeper. For example, not electing terrorist spawn like Chesa Boudin as DA.

I wonder if more public restrooms would help?