Federal troops helping suppress protests in Portland OR

[Worldtraveller]

Lotta nostradamus in there. However, all the points I was trying to make entirely eluded you. I guess you're going with us and them. Maybe you'll get lucky and choose the winning side.

If your side (leftist extremist rioters) ends up being the "winning side" that will be the end of US. I guess FBI needs to dust off COINTELPRO before the "them" start planting bombs like the left-wing radicals of the 70s did.

You and I have different visions of what the US is and should be. You have very little idea of my vision. You are painting yours as fascism. That you can not reflect on what you wrote there is sadly normal in this climate. Us against them is the new happy birthday

I'm ok with being against fascists, and wannabe fascists.

 

[ZiprHead]

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The man in this Portland video is Christopher David.<br><br>A Navy veteran, he tells us he went to the protests for the first time to ask officers about the constitution.<br><br>He said his fingers are broken and he needs surgery.<br><br>MORE: <a href="https://t.co/W7qAD8R4xJ">https://t.co/W7qAD8R4xJ</a><a href="https://t.co/BBZnUZlJyW">pic.twitter.com/BBZnUZlJyW</a></p>— Mike Baker (@ByMikeBaker) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1284998542008836096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]

 

[lpetrich]

Trump to send federal forces to more 'Democrat' cities - Reuters

President Donald Trump on Monday said he would send law enforcement to more U.S. cities, as a federal crackdown on anti-racism protests in Oregon with unmarked cars and unidentified forces angered people across the country.

Trump, a Republican, cited New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland, California, as places to send federal agents, noting the cities’ mayors were “liberal Democrats.” Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot frequently blasts Trump on Twitter.

“We’re sending law enforcement,” Trump told reporters at the White House. “We can’t let this happen to the cities.”

 

[Worldtraveller]

Hospitals deal this sort of stuff all the time. They don't end in fatalities. Your argument that sending in cops by default after they've taken a course in killology is asinine and very out of touch.

That's putting it kindly.

I'd like to see some evidence that "hospitals" send workers to respond to domestic threats "all the time" and that they don't end in fatalities.

This is from 3 years ago. There are stats in the article. I'd be willing to bet it's only gotten worse.

https://acphospitalist.org/archives/2017/12/hospitals-fight-back-against-violence.htm

I eagerly await your 'but that's different' and whataboutism, though.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'd like to see some evidence that "hospitals" send workers to respond to domestic threats "all the time" and that they don't end in fatalities.

This is from 3 years ago. There are stats in the article. I'd be willing to bet it's only gotten worse.

I eagerly await your 'but that's different' and whataboutism, though.

Whatabout the link?

 

[Politesse]

So he's officially declaring war on the Democratic Party? With, like, soldiers and guns? We gonna do something about that, or what?

 

[Worldtraveller]

So he's officially declaring war on the Democratic Party? With, like, soldiers and guns? We gonna do something about that, or what?

For the first time in my life, I'm thinking about purchasing a firearm and getting a conceal carry permit.

I hate this fucking timeline.

 

[Politesse]

So he's officially declaring war on the Democratic Party? With, like, soldiers and guns? We gonna do something about that, or what?

For the first time in my life, I'm thinking about purchasing a firearm and getting a conceal carry permit.

I hate this fucking timeline.

If he really is of a mind to start disappearing his political opponents right off the street. I think he'll find that the Democrats are, in general, more heavily armed than the folks on the Right quite realize. I know quite a few new gun owners of late.

 

[skepticalbip]

I'd like to see some evidence that "hospitals" send workers to respond to domestic threats "all the time" and that they don't end in fatalities.

This is from 3 years ago. There are stats in the article. I'd be willing to bet it's only gotten worse.

https://acphospitalist.org/archives/2017/12/hospitals-fight-back-against-violence.htm

I eagerly await your 'but that's different' and whataboutism, though.

Cute non sequitur. That article is about workplace violence (rowdy patients). Believe it or not but every business has workplace violence to deal with especially businesses that deal with the public. Interesting that they include in the list of violence they face, "verbal threats, harassment, and intimidation".

Police responding to domestic violence calls are walking into someone's home where they can face extremely angry people that can be armed with guns, machates, knives or baseball bats.

 

[skepticalbip]

nope. There is no fourth. The "Make my Day" law (Castle Doctrine implementation in CO) requires you are on your own property (unlike in TX where "Stand your Ground" is assignable to your neighbor), and further that an ADDITIONAL crime is being committed WHILE the trespass is occuring. And that is the end of justifiable deadly force in my state.
IOW, you cannot shoot someone for breaking into your home... until they start stealing things or threatening anyone... but you can (and should) shoot someone for attempting to murder, rape or kidnap someone. Failure to clearly identify through markings and / or verbal announcement while restraining and detaining someone, is kidnapping... an offense for which Colorado defenders can and will use extreme force to stop. They need only identify themselves / their agency and make verbally clear the source of their authority to avoid justifiably being killed by a good samaritan.

I am waiting to see if anything happens to that couple in St. Louis. The mob had broken through the gate and were threatening to take over their home, kill them and their dog. The couple got their rifle and pistol to repel the mob, never leaving their property. The weapons did repel the mob but the DA is now threatening to bring charges against the couple, but not anyone in the threatening mob.


Oh yes, the couple did call 911 but were told that the police would not show up to protect them.

You believe their BS story about the 'mob'? The video(s) (who you gonna believe, me, or your lyin eyes?) clearly show the protesters in the street, which is public property.

It isn't a public street. It was a private road and the mob broke down an iron gate across it to get into the property.

If you listen carefully to the video you can hear some of the threats being made by that mob.

 

[KeepTalking]

nope. There is no fourth. The "Make my Day" law (Castle Doctrine implementation in CO) requires you are on your own property (unlike in TX where "Stand your Ground" is assignable to your neighbor), and further that an ADDITIONAL crime is being committed WHILE the trespass is occuring. And that is the end of justifiable deadly force in my state.
IOW, you cannot shoot someone for breaking into your home... until they start stealing things or threatening anyone... but you can (and should) shoot someone for attempting to murder, rape or kidnap someone. Failure to clearly identify through markings and / or verbal announcement while restraining and detaining someone, is kidnapping... an offense for which Colorado defenders can and will use extreme force to stop. They need only identify themselves / their agency and make verbally clear the source of their authority to avoid justifiably being killed by a good samaritan.

I am waiting to see if anything happens to that couple in St. Louis. The mob had broken through the gate and were threatening to take over their home, kill them and their dog. The couple got their rifle and pistol to repel the mob, never leaving their property. The weapons did repel the mob but the DA is now threatening to bring charges against the couple, but not anyone in the threatening mob.

Oh yes, the couple did call 911 but were told that the police would not show up to protect them.

Where are you getting any of that from? The gate was not broken by the protestors, in fact it was already open before the passed through. The only threats made were from the couple who are being charged for making those threats. The protestors they threatened were peaceful, and were merely passing in front of the property on the way to protest at Mayor Krewson's house.

 

[skepticalbip]

Cops like to play with guns. They are largely selected for that attribute.
Then they spend more time playing (training) with guns than learning to solve human problems - other than with guns.
So when there's a problem, they naturally try to solve it with guns.

It shouldn't require a PhD to learn to solve SOME problems without guns.

Where the fuck do you get your "information"? Are you just pulling it out of your ass?

 

[KeepTalking]

You believe their BS story about the 'mob'? The video(s) (who you gonna believe, me, or your lyin eyes?) clearly show the protesters in the street, which is public property.

It isn't a public street. It was a private road and the mob broke down an iron gate across it to get into the property.

They did not break down the gate, it was already open. In the video the gate is intact. It is not clear that the protestors knew this was a private street, it is my understanding that they were relying on a mapping app to get to Mayor Krewson's home, and that app navigated them down that street. The street does not just serve that house, it serves an entire neighborhood, one of those weird high class neighborhoods in St. Louis that have near autonomy. None of the other residents of the neighborhood had a problem with the protestors, but if you look at what those neighbors have to say about this couple, they are one big problem in that neighborhood.

If you listen carefully to the video you can hear some of the threats being made by that mob.

Those would have been made in response to having guns pointed at them. It is interesting how threatening peaceful people with violence often makes them no longer peaceful.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Since it is difficult to convince potential abusers to announce their plans in advance to the police, I would suggest hiring psychic 911 operators. If they 'sense' that the disturbance is a mother and son loudly arguing about the son cleaning his room then they can dispatch a social worker to negotiate a resolution. If they 'sense' the disturbance is a home invasion then they can dispatch the police.

or, you know, if the caller says the disturbance is a mother and son loudly arguing about the son cleaning his room then they can dispatch a social worker to negotiate a resolution.

Neighbors who call in disturbances next door don't have any idea what the hell is going on. They only know that there is a hell of a racket and fear the worse.

That is except for something like loud parties. In these cases someone showing up with a badge is quite effective at convincing them to turn down the stereo. A social worker showing up without arrest authority would likely be invited to join the party or only evolve into an argument until a back-up cop showed up.

all domestic disturbance calls are always from neighbors who don't know what's going on? Always?

 

[Testy Calibrate]

So he's officially declaring war on the Democratic Party? With, like, soldiers and guns? We gonna do something about that, or what?

I live in Portland. I am doing something about it.

 

[Politesse]

Hopefully this will be as short-lived as most of Trump's bad ideas...

 

[Angry Floof]

Hopefully this will be as short-lived as most of Trump's bad ideas...

Possibly much longer lived than our worst nightmare.

DHS secretary says he doesn't need invitation from states to send in federal forces.

Where are our states' rights, anti-tyranny, anti-government overreach, well armed militia? Based on everything they've ever said, everything they've claimed to stand for, I fully expected this would be what would bring them waddling out of their trailers and moms' basements to protect American citizens. Why hasn't it?

 

[Rhea]

So he's officially declaring war on the Democratic Party? With, like, soldiers and guns? We gonna do something about that, or what?

For the first time in my life, I'm thinking about purchasing a firearm and getting a conceal carry permit.

I hate this fucking timeline.

If he really is of a mind to start disappearing his political opponents right off the street. I think he'll find that the Democrats are, in general, more heavily armed than the folks on the Right quite realize. I know quite a few new gun owners of late.

He'll find the democrats are more heavily armed than the MAGAs think - and have been for a very long time. They just aren't the sort to brandish for the feels. They ACTUALLY own for actual protection, sport or hunting. Not to make their penises bigger.

 

[TV and credit cards]

You're looking at the 'problem' from the wrong end of the spectrum.

Currently, the problem(s) (they are legion) are that everything the police respond to is more likely to escalate into violence because when all you have is a hammer (gun), everything looks like a nail (target). Even break ins/robberies, cops responding after the fact don't need to be armed. They can show up, take a report, and never be heard from again without firearms.

There is zero reason the US couldn't model our policing after several European countries, where the cops aren't as a default, even armed. They have specially trained officers that they only call when it is deemed necessary. That would be a big part of 'defunding', BTW, which has been explained in the other thread, and the authoritarians here continue to ignore, which is defunding means reducing what is spent on hardware like tanks, assault rifles, grenades, etc, and focus on training, more (unarmed) cops, specific traffic enforcement (unarmed) etc.

Would you disarm the citizenry first? I really think we should.

Domestic Dispute Calls: The Most Dangerous Circumstance

These are not only the most dangerous calls for service officers respond to, they are also the most difficult, as officers are often asked to interpret legal decisions, verify court orders or enforce “Stay Away” orders and protection orders that have specific provisions in them. Even in the case of what is considered a routine matter, no one can predict how someone will react when dealing with an intense matter. These calls are a recipe for disaster and present a great threat to the safety of the officers who must answer them.

 

[marc]

Well apparently the feds were invited, by the police union

Or at the very least they were talking to DHS behind the backs of state and city officials.