Florida couple sees home appraisal jump 40 percent after they remove all traces of “Blackness”

[ZiprHead]

An Ortega couple whose home appraisal came in far below expectations "white washed" their home before a second appraisal and saw the estimated value jump 40 percent.

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — An Ortega couple whose home appraisal came in more than $100,000 below expectations tried an experiment. According to a Facebook post and a story in Tuesday’s New York Times, Abena and Alex Horton sought a second appraisal -- but first, they redecorated their house.

According to Abena Horton's post, "we took down all family pictures containing Black relatives. We took down all pictures of African-American greats that we display to inspire our son. Zora Neale Hurston and Toni Morrison came down from the bookshelves; Shakespeare went up. My son and I took a convenient shopping trip during the appraisal, leaving my white male husband to show the appraiser around, alone."

The second appraisal jumped by 40 percent – going from the initial $330,000 to $465,000

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Peronsally I would have dinged $50k alone for the Toni Morrison. Replace it with Langston Hughes!

But seriously, this is a nothing burger. That could have happened to any black or inter-racial family.

 

[WAB]

Peronsally I would have dinged $50k alone for the Toni Morrison. Replace it with Langston Hughes!

Langston Hughes? Nah. Countee Cullen.

 

[Toni]

Peronsally I would have dinged $50k alone for the Toni Morrison. Replace it with Langston Hughes!

But seriously, this is a nothing burger. That could have happened to any black or inter-racial family.

Toni Morrison is great!

There is room for more than one or two black authors, even on a white person's bookshelves.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Peronsally I would have dinged $50k alone for the Toni Morrison. Replace it with Langston Hughes!

But seriously, this is a nothing burger. That could have happened to any black or inter-racial family.

Toni Morrison is great!

Song of Solomon was the worst weekend of my life. I had put that book off in class to get my real classes done, and I pushed through most of that in a weekend. I'm not the brightest when it comes to literature (and just about every thing else), but I found no redemption in reading that book. I wanted to cry. In fact, I unloaded on it in the Final.

There is room for more than one or two black authors, even on a white person's bookshelves.

I'm pretty certain I have zero black authors other than Hughes. Heck, I barely even have any classics. I'm barely literate at all! Complete collection of Poe (of which I've just about all of), a lot of Vonnegut (also read), history books. Probably have more science books than literature books.

Regardless, I think what I have demonstrated is that white people have no clue the privilege they have.

Though the idea of doing one more appraisal with just a white guy, but porn all over the place would be interesting.

 

[Tigers!]

An Ortega couple whose home appraisal came in far below expectations "white washed" their home before a second appraisal and saw the estimated value jump 40 percent.

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — An Ortega couple whose home appraisal came in more than $100,000 below expectations tried an experiment. According to a Facebook post and a story in Tuesday’s New York Times, Abena and Alex Horton sought a second appraisal -- but first, they redecorated their house.

According to Abena Horton's post, "we took down all family pictures containing Black relatives. We took down all pictures of African-American greats that we display to inspire our son. Zora Neale Hurston and Toni Morrison came down from the bookshelves; Shakespeare went up. My son and I took a convenient shopping trip during the appraisal, leaving my white male husband to show the appraiser around, alone."

The second appraisal jumped by 40 percent – going from the initial $330,000 to $465,000

And here is me thinking that people could not be so stupid.

 

[Metaphor]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If the house sells, they'll know which estimate was more accurate.

 

[TV and credit cards]

After one appraisal, you “knew immediately what needed to happen. ..."
I would venture to guess that “rude” appraiser needed to be seconded.
Was it any less of a whitewash to assume from the actions of one, all must be? If I were an appraiser, I’d be offended.
Furthermore, it’s my understanding appraisals are based on comparison of recently sold homes in the area and if the appraisal was low by such a significant amount, it would be justified in the appraisal.

Me thinks someone wanted to be on the local news and the local news was more than happy to lap up such a story.
Have we lost all sense of objectivity?

 

[Harry Bosch]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If the house sells, they'll know which estimate was more accurate.

Sure, the first appraiser may have been biased. But yea, appraisals are wildly inaccurate. Appraisals are simply estimates of value by a professional at a point of time. They are suppose to mostly based on comps. But the comps to use is what drives the appraisal, and it's a lot of educated guess work.

 

[Metaphor]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If the house sells, they'll know which estimate was more accurate.

Sure, the first appraiser may have been biased. But yea, appraisals are wildly inaccurate. Appraisals are simply estimates of value by a professional at a point of time. They are suppose to mostly based on comps. But the comps to use is what drives the appraisal, and it's a lot of educated guess work.

Well, the second appraiser might have been biased. Or maybe one of them is just a poor appraiser. Or one of them had a bad day. Or the real estate market is in COVID-19 upheaval and that has increased the uncertainty and variability of estimates.

There are any number of reasons that there might have been a higher appraisal after the "deblackifying". One of them might be that the home probably looked cleaner and less cluttered after a thorough going over and the removal of excess stuff.

The couple puts it down to racism. But that is one hypothesis among many consistent with the evidence.

 

[Elixir]

So the moral of the story is "buy black"?

 

[thebeave]

This situation seems similar to one recently where some black actor (forgot who it was actually) was trying to sell his house, but wasn't having much luck getting offers. Apparently, he had left personal photos of himself and his family all over the house. He was told by his real estate agent that it would help things if he took down the photos. So, he took the photos down, and shortly thereafter he got an offer. Of course, his rationale was that it was because of racism, but its standard practice in the RE industry for sellers, regardless of race, to remove personal photos as prospective buyers like to be able to imagine themselves living in the house, and if another family has their photos everywhere, it diminishes that feeling.

 

[Metaphor]

So the moral of the story is "buy black"?

If I could buy a previously black-owned house that was deeply discounted solely due to the prejudice of estate agents, I'd take all my money out of the stock market and buy every suitable house I could.

Of course, people are not getting these houses magically cheaper, because the market doesn't work like that.

 

[Elixir]

... the market doesn't work like that.

You better stay in the stock market dude.
Obviously you don't believe any black owner ever accepted a full price offer at an appraised value prior to eradicating all traces of blackness from their property.

 

[Metaphor]

... the market doesn't work like that.

You better stay in the stock market dude.
Obviously you don't believe any black owner ever accepted a full price offer at an appraised value prior to eradicating all traces of blackness from their property.

No, I do not believe that black-owned houses systemically receive lower appraisals and lower sale values just because potential buyers saw a black family had lived there. If this were a pattern, people would notice, and they'd make themselves very rich buying, 'deblackifying', and then flipping houses. I'm open to evidence, of course.

 

[Toni]

Song of Solomon was the worst weekend of my life. I had put that book off in class to get my real classes done, and I pushed through most of that in a weekend. I'm not the brightest when it comes to literature (and just about every thing else), but I found no redemption in reading that book. I wanted to cry. In fact, I unloaded on it in the Final.

There is room for more than one or two black authors, even on a white person's bookshelves.

I'm pretty certain I have zero black authors other than Hughes. Heck, I barely even have any classics. I'm barely literate at all! Complete collection of Poe (of which I've just about all of), a lot of Vonnegut (also read), history books. Probably have more science books than literature books.

Regardless, I think what I have demonstrated is that white people have no clue the privilege they have.

Though the idea of doing one more appraisal with just a white guy, but porn all over the place would be interesting.

I loved Song of Solomon. A friend in college turned me on to Morrison and I haven't looked back. Morrison, Walker and Butler are among my favorite authors (whose numbers are legion).
I have tried hard to enjoy reading history books but the closest I can come is biography. I read plenty of science and some social science. Poetry. Drama. Heck, as a child, I read everything I could get my hands on including my dad's Field and Stream.

Yeah, white people have no clue to how myopic they are.

Or how racist--even if it's just to fear that they are moving into a 'black' neighborhood (which may mean bad neighborhood) and 'won't fit in.'

 

[Toni]

... the market doesn't work like that.

You better stay in the stock market dude.
Obviously you don't believe any black owner ever accepted a full price offer at an appraised value prior to eradicating all traces of blackness from their property.

No, I do not believe that black-owned houses systemically receive lower appraisals and lower sale values just because potential buyers saw a black family had lived there. If this were a pattern, people would notice, and they'd make themselves very rich buying, 'deblackifying', and then flipping houses. I'm open to evidence, of course.

Apparently not.

As far as 'deblackifying' --it's called gentrification and one house won't do. White people typically don't want to be the only white family in the neighborhood. They fear crime and although they won't admit it, they fear being treated as a minority because they know how minorities are treated.

 

[Toni]

This situation seems similar to one recently where some black actor (forgot who it was actually) was trying to sell his house, but wasn't having much luck getting offers. Apparently, he had left personal photos of himself and his family all over the house. He was told by his real estate agent that it would help things if he took down the photos. So, he took the photos down, and shortly thereafter he got an offer. Of course, his rationale was that it was because of racism, but its standard practice in the RE industry for sellers, regardless of race, to remove personal photos as prospective buyers like to be able to imagine themselves living in the house, and if another family has their photos everywhere, it diminishes that feeling.

It *is* standard practice to take down all personal photos and to only display generic art.

That does not mean that there is no bigotry or racism.

When we purchased our first home, the previous (white) family had....horrendous taste. From one spot in the kitchen, I could view 5 different kinds of ugly and clashing (wildly unrelated!) wall paper. The neighbors across the street really were fond of the sellers but they used to joke that the house looked like it was decorated by a bunch of Chaldeans.* When we sold our house a few years later because we were relocating for work, they begged us not to sell to a black family or Chaldeans. To be very honest, one of the biggest reasons that neighborhood had appealed to me was that it wasn't all white/Christian/preferably blonde. Also: that bit of 'color' did put the house in our price range. I have no idea who bought the house. It was a buyer's market and we were always someone else's 2nd choice. We sold after we had moved a few states over. Which was financially.....hideous and took us some years to recover.

*https://www.chaldeanchamber.com/abo...aic-speaking, Eastern,and is present day Iraq.

Chaldeans are Aramaic-speaking, Eastern Rite Catholics that are indigenous to Iraq. Chaldeans have a history that spans more-than 5,500 years, dating back to Mesopotamia, which was known as the cradle of civilization and is present day Iraq.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If the house sells, they'll know which estimate was more accurate.

Sure, the first appraiser may have been biased. But yea, appraisals are wildly inaccurate.

They knew the first appraisal had to be wrong based on the homes around them. That is why they got the second appraisal. The neighborhood didn't change, the home mostly didn't change, but the color did. This isn't about bigotry, this is about systemic racism. Racism so ingrained in society, it isn't even noticed or intended by those committing some of the acts.

Appraisals are simply estimates of value by a professional at a point of time. They are suppose to mostly based on comps. But the comps to use is what drives the appraisal, and it's a lot of educated guess work.

40% is a massive error. Or is it an error? Does a black family get a lower amount selling the same house a white family sells, and not because of their color, but because of implication that blacks live in the neighborhood? Is it too black... is it going downhill? Is a portion of that 40% viewed as risk loss?

 

[ruby sparks]

If this story is correct, and although it's only an anecdote, and I don't know all the details, it would at least fit in with quite a bit of other broad evidence along similar lines, and as such, I would at least suspect possible racial bias, for that reason.