Democracy finished in California

[TSwizzle]

It's hilarious to read on here about the republican threat to democracy when here in California, we really do have an actual tyrant in control;

Gov. Gavin Newsom on Wednesday issued an executive order requiring the sale of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035, a move the governor says would achieve a significant reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality, and move the state further away from relying on climate change-causing fossil fuels. “This is the most impactful step our state can take to fight climate change,” Newsom said.

SacBee

 

[ruby sparks]

I presume you at least realise that many people would not think of this as tyrannical.

 

[Bomb#20]

True. Principles typically only matter to people who aren't getting what they want.

You're familiar, I presume, with the concept of "Separation of Powers"?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While I'm for green things I have two problems with this:

1) I think something like this requires a bill, not merely an executive order.

2) Electric cars aren't particularly green so long as the power is coming from fossil fuels.

 

[Shadowy Man]

2) Electric cars aren't particularly green so long as the power is coming from fossil fuels.

But how green are they? Has anyone Calculated the difference in mass of CO2 per mile between electric cars run by fossil fuel power plants versus cars operating on gasoline?

Someone must have done this calculation?

 

[Politesse]

It's hilarious to read on here about the republican threat to democracy when here in California, we really do have an actual tyrant in control;

Gov. Gavin Newsom on Wednesday issued an executive order requiring the sale of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035, a move the governor says would achieve a significant reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality, and move the state further away from relying on climate change-causing fossil fuels. “This is the most impactful step our state can take to fight climate change,” Newsom said.

SacBee

How is that non-Democratic?

 

[Shadowy Man]

It's hilarious to read on here about the republican threat to democracy when here in California, we really do have an actual tyrant in control;

Gov. Gavin Newsom on Wednesday issued an executive order requiring the sale of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035, a move the governor says would achieve a significant reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality, and move the state further away from relying on climate change-causing fossil fuels. “This is the most impactful step our state can take to fight climate change,” Newsom said.

SacBee

When governor Newsom says he won’t accept election results and/or attempts to prevent citizens from voting then let’s talk again about his threat to democracy. If the people don’t like what he’s doing they can vote for someone else. That is how it is supposed to work.

That being said, I agree that it would be better legislated.

 

[Trausti]

 

[bigfield]

It's hilarious to read on here about the republican threat to democracy when here in California, we really do have an actual tyrant in control;

Gov. Gavin Newsom on Wednesday issued an executive order requiring the sale of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035, a move the governor says would achieve a significant reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality, and move the state further away from relying on climate change-causing fossil fuels. “This is the most impactful step our state can take to fight climate change,” Newsom said.

SacBee

LOL, the governor does something you don't like, so he's a tyrant who has finished off Democracy in your state?

Nothing about subverting the electoral process or using force to stay in power, just a regulation on vehicle emissions. Therefore, literal tyrant.

 

[Jarhyn]

2) Electric cars aren't particularly green so long as the power is coming from fossil fuels.

But how green are they? Has anyone Calculated the difference in mass of CO2 per mile between electric cars run by fossil fuel power plants versus cars operating on gasoline?

Someone must have done this calculation?

Gasoline cars are 35% effecient, tops. A quick Google shows that 8-15% loss happens on the line, and gas plants are 42% efficient on the low end. So, .42 * .85 = 35%

So given the highest line loss on Natural gas power is going to clock in as equal in efficiency to gasoline.

And that's assuming no nuclear, solar, or wind contributions.

With combined cycle natural gas plants, that number goes to 60% effiency minus 15% line loss.

But the vast majority of pollution comes from manufacturing sources.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Who’s going to want to buy a new gas powered vehicle fifteen years from now? I doubt you’ll be able to find one for sale. Are you in the least keeping up with the industry and how fast this is moving along? The news in the SacBee story is the last paragraph. California is going to need to get creative with their charging stations. So many people will not be able to charge at home over night. What your “insufferable prick” needs to mandate is employers install charging stations at their businesses. Everywhere people park all day long should be a charging station. All new residential construction should require charging stations. Charging stations along the highways are easy, even beneficial as they will force travelers to stop for more than just a five minute fill up. They’ll actually have to take a break for a bit. The issue to address is those who cannot charge at their residence overnight.

 

[Politesse]

Who’s going to want to buy a new gas powered vehicle fifteen years from now? I doubt you’ll be able to find one for sale. Are you in the least keeping up with the industry and how fast this is moving along? The news in the SacBee story is the last paragraph. California is going to need to get creative with their charging stations. So many people will not be able to charge at home over night. What your “insufferable prick” needs to mandate is employers install charging stations at their businesses. Everywhere people park all day long should be a charging station. All new residential construction should require charging stations. Charging stations along the highways are easy, even beneficial as they will force travelers to stop for more than just a five minute fill up. They’ll actually have to take a break for a bit. The issue to address is those who cannot charge at their residence overnight.

Already becoming increasingly commonplace in the big cities, but we do need to expand the network.

Also, maybe even especially true of hydrogen fuel cell stations, which are rarely outside of two narrow corridors around SF and LA despite the increasing popularity of the Mirai.

 

[KeepTalking]

It's hilarious to read on here about the republican threat to democracy when here in California, we really do have an actual tyrant in control;

Gov. Gavin Newsom on Wednesday issued an executive order requiring the sale of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035, a move the governor says would achieve a significant reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality, and move the state further away from relying on climate change-causing fossil fuels. “This is the most impactful step our state can take to fight climate change,” Newsom said.

SacBee

LOL, the governor does something you don't like, so he's a tyrant who has finished off Democracy in your state?

Nothing about subverting the electoral process or using force to stay in power, just a regulation on vehicle emissions. Therefore, literal tyrant.

^This.

I came here for an argument about subverting the democratic electoral process, and all I get is bitching about an EO on EVs. I would be disappointed if it weren't so fucking funny that someone actually thinks that this has caused the demise of Democracy in California.

 

[fromderinside]

Who’s going to want to buy a new gas powered vehicle fifteen years from now? ....

They're still buying horses 130 years on yano.

There needs to be new things falling into conservative land else there wouldn't be a conservative land.

Crazy how twenty-somethings think the world started today.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

LOL, the governor does something you don't like, so he's a tyrant who has finished off Democracy in your state?

Nothing about subverting the electoral process or using force to stay in power, just a regulation on vehicle emissions. Therefore, literal tyrant.

^This.

I came here for an argument about subverting the democratic electoral process, and all I get is bitching about an EO on EVs. I would be disappointed if it weren't so fucking funny that someone actually thinks that this has caused the demise of Democracy in California.

The OP complaints do not seem to be about EO and EVs, but about the governor restricting people's freedom by executive order, instead of going to the legislature (see B20's reply).

 

[KeepTalking]

LOL, the governor does something you don't like, so he's a tyrant who has finished off Democracy in your state?

Nothing about subverting the electoral process or using force to stay in power, just a regulation on vehicle emissions. Therefore, literal tyrant.

^This.

I came here for an argument about subverting the democratic electoral process, and all I get is bitching about an EO on EVs. I would be disappointed if it weren't so fucking funny that someone actually thinks that this has caused the demise of Democracy in California.

The OP complaints do not seem to be about EO and EVs, but about the governor restricting people's freedom by executive order,

And the only EO mentioned is about zero emissions vehicles, which are predominantly EVs. EOs have been used for a lot of things at both the State and Federal level, including by the OP's favorite President*, but the OP doesn't seem to be concerned about any of that.

instead of going to the legislature (see B20's reply).

It has been a long time since I gave a shit about what B20 has to say.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

And the only EO mentioned is about zero emissions vehicles, which are predominantly EVs. EOs have been used for a lot of things at both the State and Federal level, including by the OP's favorite President*, but the OP doesn't seem to be concerned about any of that.

Has Trump used EO's to restrict people's freedoms in a way that either usurps the prerogatives of Congress, or does something the federal government is not constitutionally allowed to?
I'm not following his every move, so maybe he did for all I know. But even if he did, that would not make the OP point any worse. It would just mean that democracy is taking similar hits at a federal level.

Still, "finished" is too much of course. There are different degrees to which democracy can be had, and also to which it can be damaged.

It has been a long time since I gave a shit about what B20 has to say.

That is too bad. His posts are the best in the forum; everyone here could learn from them. At any rate, you said "I came here for an argument about subverting the democratic electoral process, and all I get is bitching about an EO on EVs. ", so I was pointing out that B20 already explained what the complaint was about.

 

[Elixir]

The Trump Model dictates that any action by government that inconveniences or causes a financial cost to a trumpsucker be defined as tyranny.
Yawn. Poor Swizzy.

 

[KeepTalking]

And the only EO mentioned is about zero emissions vehicles, which are predominantly EVs. EOs have been used for a lot of things at both the State and Federal level, including by the OP's favorite President*, but the OP doesn't seem to be concerned about any of that.

Has Trump used EO's to restrict people's freedoms in a way that either usurps the prerogatives of Congress, or does something the federal government is not constitutionally allowed to?

States are not the federal government, and as many a conservative will explain to you at length powers not specifically granted to the federal government in the constitution are reserved to the states.

I'm not following his every move, so maybe he did for all I know. But even if he did, that would not make the OP point any worse. It would just mean that democracy is taking similar hits at a federal level.

I believe that most of Trump's executive orders have been in the vein of cancelling EOs from the Obama administration, so that tells you how threatening EOs are to the functioning of our democracy (not at all).

Still, "finished" is too much of course. There are different degrees to which democracy can be had, and also to which it can be damaged.

You would likely want to measure the damage inflicted by this EO in arc seconds, rather than degrees.

It has been a long time since I gave a shit about what B20 has to say.

That is too bad. His posts are the best in the forum; everyone here could learn from them.

To be honest, I do acknowledge that he sometimes makes good points, but his style of argumentation is very off-putting to me, so I avoid reading his posts for the most part. To me his posts are far from the best on the forum, quite the opposite, in fact. Of course, I am sure there are those who feel the same about my posts, so take that for what it's worth.

At any rate, you said "I came here for an argument about subverting the democratic electoral process, and all I get is bitching about an EO on EVs. ", so I was pointing out that B20 already explained what the complaint was about.

I was attempting to engage in a bit of Pythonesque humor there, and don't worry, I won't be quitting my day job. I don't read every post in every thread I join, and B20's posts are going to be towards the bottom of the list when it comes to those I do read.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

States are not the federal government, and as many a conservative will explain to you at length powers not specifically granted to the federal government in the constitution are reserved to the states.

Sure, I know. But I'm not sure how that is relevant to the point I was making.

I believe that most of Trump's executive orders have been in the vein of cancelling EOs from the Obama administration, so that tells you how threatening EOs are to the functioning of our democracy (not at all).

But the EO in the OP usurps a power of the legislature. It damages democracy by going against the separation of powers.