At what margin of electoral defeat will Trump be forced to admit defeat?

[ideologyhunter]

He's leaving like he arrived, a liar and a poorly skilled conman who preys on dopes.

 

[jab]

I agreed with you that Trump would be full of bluster and excuses. What I challenged was your statement about a 'peaceful' transfer of power.

Now I admit it isn't January yet. Trump might yet barricade himself in the Oval Office. But I reckon he'll just leave....peacefully.

Originally Posted by Elixir So I'm wondering if anyone here thinks there is any possibility of a peaceful transfer of power in January, and if so, what factors would lead to that outcome.

He'll leave squalling whining and kvetching.

 

[jab]

Some miscellaneous remarks and corrections:



I've taken the liberty of reddening two sad developments. I'd like to hear comments from the Biden detractors in this thread on these matters, supposing the claims to be true. Thanks in advance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd posit that Trump has already wrought unprecedented violence upon us.

Just because they're doing it in a cowardly, passive-aggressive way doesn't make it peaceful. But trump fans have trouble with word meanings sometimes.

This comment may be insulting to professional linguists, who also often have trouble with the diachronics of word meaning. (For example, Is it obvious that "suppose" used to mean "pretend"?)

The problem with trump fans isn't their raw linguistic ability, but rather their inability to associate semantic meaning with real-world issues, or to perform objective valuations. As an experiment to explore this claim, I've asked the anti-Democrat contingent to comment on the two red-painted claims above.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Trump is junking a treaty—and two planes—designed to stop nuclear war

I thought that was to monitor troop build ups, staging areas, pre-invasion massing on the border. No way two planes will detect missiles in silos ir on trains from being spun up and targeted. Or detect what their targets are...
Our capability to beat the living gumi bears out of aggressors with OUR nukes is what's supposed to stop nuclear war. And the satellites and radar that'll detect the launch and the incoming in time to release the gumi bears...

I don't see a wise-cracking emoticon here, so I will suppose that you are serious.

Russia has huge conventional military power and — unlike another top superpower — has leadership which, however evil, is capable of rational thought. Putin is not eager to see millions of Russians killed by American nukes.

Therefore the first steps toward a non-accidental nuclear war will be steps toward conventional war.

Perhaps an analogy will help: The first step toward remediating the risk of Covid-19 is not to rent a ventilator; it's to wear a mask and to avoid close contact with maskless people.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay, I'll bite. It's because you are wrong.

The Democrats didn't, "controlled both Congress and the senate for a considerable, ample amount of time", the Tea Party saw to that. Only a lying piece of shit would assert that. John Boehner was the original dishonest "Orange Man", That you are ignorant of who he was says a lot.

But you don't want to be educated, do you? You don't give a fuck about bad faith arguments if it lets you "win". Some people might call this a cuntish attitude.

They did for a considerable time control both houses during Obongo's 8 year term, for Kriste sake!

Wiki. " Democrats controlled the 111th Congress (2009–2011) with majorities in both houses of Congress alongside the country's first African-American president, Democrat Barack Obama."

I have personally addressed this ignorance previously, but will try again. @ Angelo - Write a brief essay (25 words or less) clarifying that you understand the difference between "majority" and "60-Senator super-majority." You may wish to amend your remark after you have completed this assignment. Wiki is not always the best source!

(On a more general note, it has recently come to my attention that some other Wiki articles are also severely flawed. But I will hijack a different thread to expound on this.)

Also, to a racist, I guess 2 years is an eternity.

 

[Metaphor]

https://www.news.com.au/world/north...n/news-story/c3ce259ddd8d6cad5ec75cfd8d3cd160

Perhaps the transfer is going to be more peaceful than Elixir thought? Aren't you glad you were wrong, Elixir?

Why would anything in those comments make him wrong? Trump hasn't conceded. And any promise Trump makes for future action is worthless. Oh and of course he has already backtracked on this promise. Duh.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332352538855747584?s=20[/TWEET]

I quoted multiple times what I found wrong in Elixir's post: he said he did not believe that there would be a "peaceful" transfer of power.

At the time he said this, I thought it was ridiculous fearmongering. He conceded above that although the transfer would be peaceful, it was because Trump is a coward. But now we have people redefining what 'peaceful' means and we have you making claims I said Trump would concede easily which I did not say and do not believe.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I don't see a wise-cracking emoticon here, so I will suppose that you are serious.

sometimes i do both at the same time.

Russia has huge conventional military power and — unlike another top superpower — has leadership which, however evil, is capable of rational thought. Putin is not eager to see millions of Russians killed by American nukes.

Therefore the first steps toward a non-accidental nuclear war will be steps toward conventional war.

I don't think so. Such steps will alert the US, which will take steps like increasing the DEFCON, generating more boats at 2SQ, load bombs onto the planes (and sober up the pilots), turn off the muzak in the blockhouse, more frequent briefs for the Pres.
War plans selected, with the pros and cons, possibilities briefed. The Pres will start discussing options with his staff, someone will mention nukes, and he has time to make decisions like, "if they go THIS far, cross THAT line, violate thet-there treaty, we launch."

If they already intend to go nuclear, they want as much surprise as possible, as few weapons/units in a ready state to respond. The more they can catch in silos, on runways, in port, the betterest.
Plus, the Pres will very likely not be in the War Room, not in a resolute frame of mind, not fully prepared to issue the "nuke 'em til they glow' codes.
And after the nukes fall, conventional forces will be doing more of a mop-up.

But that's if they go nuclear. All of our nuke plans are based on them going nuclear, or being very clearly just about to. They could still just go for conventional, knowing we'd hesitate to cross that line.

 

[bilby]

I don't see a wise-cracking emoticon here, so I will suppose that you are serious.

sometimes i do both at the same time.

Russia has huge conventional military power and — unlike another top superpower — has leadership which, however evil, is capable of rational thought. Putin is not eager to see millions of Russians killed by American nukes.

Therefore the first steps toward a non-accidental nuclear war will be steps toward conventional war.

I don't think so. Such steps will alert the US, which will take steps like increasing the DEFCON, generating more boats at 2SQ, load bombs onto the planes (and sober up the pilots), turn off the muzak in the blockhouse, more frequent briefs for the Pres.
War plans selected, with the pros and cons, possibilities briefed. The Pres will start discussing options with his staff, someone will mention nukes, and he has time to make decisions like, "if they go THIS far, cross THAT line, violate thet-there treaty, we launch."

If they already intend to go nuclear, they want as much surprise as possible, as few weapons/units in a ready state to respond. The more they can catch in silos, on runways, in port, the betterest.
Plus, the Pres will very likely not be in the War Room, not in a resolute frame of mind, not fully prepared to issue the "nuke 'em til they glow' codes.
And after the nukes fall, conventional forces will be doing more of a mop-up.

But that's if they go nuclear. All of our nuke plans are based on them going nuclear, or being very clearly just about to. They could still just go for conventional, knowing we'd hesitate to cross that line.

Salami tactics. The risk is that the civilian holder of the executive powers would be susceptible to frog-boiling. And in that scenario, no amount of intelligence helps.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o861Ka9TtT4[/youtube]

 

[Keith&Co.]

Salami tactics. The risk is that the civilian holder of the executive powers would be susceptible to frog-boiling. And in that scenario, no amount of intelligence helps.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o861Ka9TtT4[/youtube]

Loved that show. George C. Scott was....not an inspired choice for the US version....


Of course, that was the same show where intel on a conventional invasion allowed them to prevent it by dropping a military unit on a 'friendship' visit to the threatened country. Just incidentally making that slice of salami much more significant and costly.

 

[Elixir]

I quoted multiple times what I found wrong .

And you were wrong, as demonstrated multiple times.
Give it up, boy. Your charade is OVER.
But again, that was an impressive effort and I am duly flatterered.

 

[Rhea]

Give it up, Shiela. Your charade is OVER.

Request once again that when people want to insult a man, they do not consider calling him female as the vehicle.

Whatever he’s doing, he’s doing as a man, as (obviously) men do.

We are not your punchline. He’s not a Sheila. The Sheilas aren’t doing this shit. Men are doing it. As men do.

EDITED: Thanks for the edit, Elixer. It is appreciated.

 

[bilby]

Salami tactics. The risk is that the civilian holder of the executive powers would be susceptible to frog-boiling. And in that scenario, no amount of intelligence helps.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o861Ka9TtT4[/youtube]

Loved that show. George C. Scott was....not an inspired choice for the US version....


Of course, that was the same show where intel on a conventional invasion allowed them to prevent it by dropping a military unit on a 'friendship' visit to the threatened country. Just incidentally making that slice of salami much more significant and costly.

"He seemed to think that eight hundred fully armed paratroopers was rather a lot to send on a goodwill visit".

"No, it's just lot of goodwill".

 

[blastula]

https://www.news.com.au/world/north...n/news-story/c3ce259ddd8d6cad5ec75cfd8d3cd160

Perhaps the transfer is going to be more peaceful than Elixir thought? Aren't you glad you were wrong, Elixir?

Why would anything in those comments make him wrong? Trump hasn't conceded. And any promise Trump makes for future action is worthless. Oh and of course he has already backtracked on this promise. Duh.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332352538855747584?s=20[/TWEET]

I quoted multiple times what I found wrong in Elixir's post: he said he did not believe that there would be a "peaceful" transfer of power.

At the time he said this, I thought it was ridiculous fearmongering. He conceded above that although the transfer would be peaceful, it was because Trump is a coward. But now we have people redefining what 'peaceful' means and we have you making claims I said Trump would concede easily which I did not say and do not believe.

You said Elixir was wrong based on Trump's comments in that story alone. His comments there do not prove that he has conceded peacefully or otherwise because nothing remotely like that has happened yet. Thus, you Metaphor are wrong.

 

[Elixir]

... he said he did not believe that there would be a "peaceful" transfer of power

That is factually inaccurate. The most charitable interpretation that could be honestly derived from the actual quote from which you inferred my "belief", is that it "appeared to imply" that I held such a belief. I can't help your deafness to such nuance.

To clear the record, my actual position (that you fail to acknowledge) is the same as it ever has been:

a) Trump will not concede the election regardless of the margin of victory.
b) Great harm will therefore ensue, and it may very well entail physical and other forms of violence.
c) I wonder if anyone here actually believes that either a or b are not true.

I realize that your need to attack me for starting this thread arises from the fact that you actually knew that both a and b were true, but didn't appreciate those facts being put forth.

Sorry, YOU LOST. I WAS CORRECT.
GET OVER IT.

 

[ideologyhunter]

It's December 1st today. I think we have the answer to the OP.

 

[blastula]

Trump kind of conceded again. And took it back in the very same sentence.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337385736530780161?s=20[/TWEET]

 

[crazyfingers]

Trump kind of conceded again. And took it back in the very same sentence.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337385736530780161?s=20[/TWEET]

He's such a twisted eyesore.

 

[TomC]

Trump kind of conceded again. And took it back in the very same sentence.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337385736530780161?s=20[/TWEET]

He's such a twisted eyesore.

If anyone knows what a "scandal plagued mess for years to come" looks like, it would be Trump.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Trump kind of conceded again. And took it back in the very same sentence.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337385736530780161?s=20[/TWEET]

He's such a twisted eyesore.

If anyone knows what a "scandal plagued mess for years to come" looks like, it would be Trump.
Tom

Yup. As always, projection.

 

[ZiprHead]

Trump has reportedly been convinced he actually won, tells advisers he may not vacate the White House

President Trump was privately coming to terms with his loss to President-elect Joe Biden, but he "has now reversed and dug in deeper — not only spreading misinformation about the election, but ingesting it himself," CNN reports, "egged on by advisers like Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis who are misleading Trump about the extent of voting irregularities and the prospects of a reversal." One adviser told CNN, "He's been fed so much misinformation that I think he actually thinks this thing was stolen from him."

Even the Electoral College formalizing Biden's win "did not appear enough to shake Trump from his delusions of victory," CNN says, "but it is adding urgency to a push by several of his advisers to gently steer Trump toward reality." Discussions of Trump's post-presidency future tend to go nowhere because Trump "all but shuts down," CNN reports. "In his moments of deepest denial, Trump has told some advisers that he will refuse to leave the White House on Inauguration Day, only to be walked down from that ledge. The possibility has alarmed some aides, but few believe Trump will actually follow through."

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Trump has reportedly been convinced he actually won, tells advisers he may not vacate the White House

President Trump was privately coming to terms with his loss to President-elect Joe Biden, but he "has now reversed and dug in deeper — not only spreading misinformation about the election, but ingesting it himself," CNN reports, "egged on by advisers like Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis who are misleading Trump about the extent of voting irregularities and the prospects of a reversal." One adviser told CNN, "He's been fed so much misinformation that I think he actually thinks this thing was stolen from him."

Even the Electoral College formalizing Biden's win "did not appear enough to shake Trump from his delusions of victory," CNN says, "but it is adding urgency to a push by several of his advisers to gently steer Trump toward reality." Discussions of Trump's post-presidency future tend to go nowhere because Trump "all but shuts down," CNN reports. "In his moments of deepest denial, Trump has told some advisers that he will refuse to leave the White House on Inauguration Day, only to be walked down from that ledge. The possibility has alarmed some aides, but few believe Trump will actually follow through."

To do something like that would take a huge dose of stupidity, something Trumpo has in great volume, but also a dose of courage, something Trumpo completely lacks. So don't be waiting for Little Donny Diaper Boy to make a stand. Diaper Boy doesn't believe his rhetoric anyway, he's only milking his sycophants.

 

[ZiprHead]

Trump has reportedly been convinced he actually won, tells advisers he may not vacate the White House

President Trump was privately coming to terms with his loss to President-elect Joe Biden, but he "has now reversed and dug in deeper — not only spreading misinformation about the election, but ingesting it himself," CNN reports, "egged on by advisers like Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis who are misleading Trump about the extent of voting irregularities and the prospects of a reversal." One adviser told CNN, "He's been fed so much misinformation that I think he actually thinks this thing was stolen from him."

Even the Electoral College formalizing Biden's win "did not appear enough to shake Trump from his delusions of victory," CNN says, "but it is adding urgency to a push by several of his advisers to gently steer Trump toward reality." Discussions of Trump's post-presidency future tend to go nowhere because Trump "all but shuts down," CNN reports. "In his moments of deepest denial, Trump has told some advisers that he will refuse to leave the White House on Inauguration Day, only to be walked down from that ledge. The possibility has alarmed some aides, but few believe Trump will actually follow through."

To do something like that would take a huge dose of stupidity, something Trumpo has in great volume, but also a dose of courage, something Trumpo completely lacks. So don't be waiting for Little Donny Diaper Boy to make a stand. Diaper Boy doesn't believe his rhetoric anyway, he's only milking his sycophants.

According to the story and his niece, he really does believe he won. Not to mention Rudy Giuliani telling him he won (while he's make $20K per day to fight for Trump's delusion).