How was the election supposedly stolen?

[DrZoidberg]

Trump said that the election was stolen by Biden. Universally news sources and experts say, "no it wasn't".

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any? I've tried googling it. I can't find any coherent argument from Trump, or the Trump side. QAnon supporters repeat the statement. Again, no arguments. Just a repeated claim. Republicans trying to defend Trump, no arguments, just evasive bullshit clearly statements.

Can somebody tell me how Biden supposedly stole the election, according to Trump?

Is he talking about the postal votes? Which, again, was an argument I didn't understand. Because Republicans can also vote by mail. So I never understood what Trump had a problem with?

I do realize that Trump said a lot of things that he just pulled out of his ass, and there might not be an explanation to this. But he had a lot of supporters who agreed with him that the election was stolen. So there must surely be some argument, however flimsy, that convinced them? Right?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Trump said that the election was stolen by Biden. Universally news sources and experts say, "no it wasn't".

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any? I've tried googling it. I can't find any coherent argument from Trump, or the Trump side. QAnon supporters repeat the statement. Again, no arguments. Just a repeated claim. Republicans trying to defend Trump, no arguments, just evasive bullshit clearly statements.

Can somebody tell me how Biden supposedly stole the election, according to Trump?

Is he talking about the postal votes? Which, again, was an argument I didn't understand. Because Republicans can also vote by mail. So I never understood what Trump had a problem with?

I do realize that Trump said a lot of things that he just pulled out of his ass, and there might not be an explanation to this. But he had a lot of supporters who agreed with him that the election was stolen. So there must surely be some argument, however flimsy, that convinced them? Right?

I've seen zero evidence for this. It's very disturbing that a very large group of republicans tried to overthrow the constitution despite the lack of evidence for their wacky conspiracies. Senator Crawley was one of the worst offenders. He kept claiming that he had evidence, but couldn't produce it. When cornered, he claimed that his "evidence" was that there was an "abundance of allegations". It's crazy...

 

[DrZoidberg]

Trump said that the election was stolen by Biden. Universally news sources and experts say, "no it wasn't".

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any? I've tried googling it. I can't find any coherent argument from Trump, or the Trump side. QAnon supporters repeat the statement. Again, no arguments. Just a repeated claim. Republicans trying to defend Trump, no arguments, just evasive bullshit clearly statements.

Can somebody tell me how Biden supposedly stole the election, according to Trump?

Is he talking about the postal votes? Which, again, was an argument I didn't understand. Because Republicans can also vote by mail. So I never understood what Trump had a problem with?

I do realize that Trump said a lot of things that he just pulled out of his ass, and there might not be an explanation to this. But he had a lot of supporters who agreed with him that the election was stolen. So there must surely be some argument, however flimsy, that convinced them? Right?

Senator Crawley was one of the worst offenders. He kept claiming that he had evidence, but couldn't produce it. When cornered, he claimed that his "evidence" was that there was an "abundance of allegations". It's crazy...

I recognise the form of this argument, "I believe in the Bible because it says in the Bible that the Bible is true. "

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump had a venue to contest alleged fraud in State courts in WI, MI, PA, AZ, GA. He didn't. There is no evidence.

Trump and his supporters have pretty much justified their claims of fraud via a single word "affidavit". An affidavit isn't gospel, nor were they all really too important. There also was the machines that change votes. Of which, you wouldn't actually know they changed votes if that was true. In Michigan I believe there was an issue with software and Trump votes weren't getting to Trump, but they knew this... which means the machine wasn't changing the votes, just not counting them right. They updated the software and everything was fixed. .

So distance observers were from counters, machines changing votes, and "affidavits" is the extent of the evidence.

WSJ article goes through this and more.

 

[Keith&Co.]

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement.

You're expecting this question to be subject to rational scrutiny. You're going to be disappointed.

Think more along the lines of a creationist. Start with an intolerable conclusion.
"Humans are a form of ape, no more special than the shit-flinging chimp in the zoo." or "Trump lost the election, fair and square, mostly because he flung too much shit and didn't do enough work."

The easiest explanation that makes (the hypothetical) YOU correct is that all the other sides of the argument are not being rational. They're cheating. Thus:
"Scientists know God is real, Man is special but deny and even hide the truth because reasons. They'd rather be right than honestly face the truth."
"Democrats know Trump actually won the election, but that's intolerable, so they cheated. They'd rather win than honestly submit to the will of the REAL voters."

So pretty much the entire presidency from Election day to the riot, Trump sat in his office collecting every more fantastic tales of fraud, chicanery, foreign interference, burning ballots, printing up fake ballots, dead people voting, and gluing two fossils together to fake a missing link.

The thing to do is NOT to try to understand the claim. Just keep demanding the claimants show ANY sort of support.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement.

You're expecting this question to be subject to rational scrutiny. You're going to be disappointed.

Think more along the lines of a creationist. Start with an intolerable conclusion.
"Humans are a form of ape, no more special than the shit-flinging chimp in the zoo." or "Trump lost the election, fair and square, mostly because he flung too much shit and didn't do enough work."

The easiest explanation that makes (the hypothetical) YOU correct is that all the other sides of the argument are not being rational. They're cheating. Thus:
"Scientists know God is real, Man is special but deny and even hide the truth because reasons. They'd rather be right than honestly face the truth."
"Democrats know Trump actually won the election, but that's intolerable, so they cheated. They'd rather win than honestly submit to the will of the REAL voters."

So pretty much the entire presidency from Election day to the riot, Trump sat in his office collecting every more fantastic tales of fraud, chicanery, foreign interference, burning ballots, printing up fake ballots, dead people voting, and gluing two fossils together to fake a missing link.

The thing to do is NOT to try to understand the claim. Just keep demanding the claimants show ANY sort of support.

It's still sociologically interesting. It's interesting to try to understand and speculate about the psychological mechanic. Even if it turns out to be simpler and more dumb than we'd like.

 

[jab]

Argument 1: The mail-in ballots, counted after the in-person ballots, were faked sufficiently to give Biden the win in several states where the first stage of the count had put Trump ahead.
or
Argument 2: In some states there was tampering with the algorithm for the Presidential election only that threw the count to Biden.
or
Argument 3: In some states there was tampering with the algorithm for the Presidential election only; however, when that algorithm failed because it underestimated the landslide nature of Trump's support, and he was still leading, albeit with an artificially small margin, then the mail-in ballots, counted after the in-person ballots, were faked sufficiently to give Biden the win in several states where the first stage of the count had put Trump ahead.

subsidiary arguments: 1. ballot handlers and counters deliberately faked things while keeping observers at a distance.
2. ineligible voters (especially dead ones) voted in the thousands in some if not all of the swing states.
3. based on polls and past voting patterns it was logically impossible that Trump would lose--for instance unbelievable that black districts in one or more states could vote more heavily for Biden than for Obama.
As far as I can tell, these are all false, or in the case of subsidiary argument 3, just plain foolish. In the case of main arguments 2 & 3, it is my understanding that the lawyers have been very cautious about presenting the computer tampering allegations in court, and it is these allegations which are now garnering lawyers and news media defamation lawsuits.

 

[Keith&Co.]

It's still sociologically interesting. It's interesting to try to understand and speculate about the psychological mechanic. Even if it turns out to be simpler and more dumb than we'd like.

But it's not.
It's the same mechanism we see all over the species.
Grandma's selective deafness. If she doesn't wanna think about X, she doesn't hear x.

Anti-vaxxers.
Anti-maskers.
Creationists.
The more hard core supporters of any sportball team on the planet. Getting conversations like, "Yeah, the (Y) won, but if you look at each individual play, the X-Team was playing superior sportball."

Cryptozoologists.
Parents of star pupils with behavioral issues.
The Kirk vs. Picard debates.
The Trek vs. Wars debates. "I'm just saying, Star WARS has ships big enough to blow up planets." "And I'M just saying, when Kirk ran into a spaceship that blew up planets, he blew the spaceship up!"

It's just weird that Florida Man's tantrum appeared on International Television....

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The logic is simple:

P1) Trump won the election
P2) The final vote counts said that Trump did not win the election
C) People cheated and faked those final vote counts to make it look like Trump lost

 

[ZiprHead]

Michigan AG Nessel files for sanctions against attorneys in election lawsuit

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel filed a motion Thursday for sanctions against the attorneys who brought a lawsuit that relied on conspiracy theories and misinformation in a failed attempt to overturn the state's election in favor of then-President Donald Trump.

The so-called "Kraken" lawsuit was filed by three Michigan attorneys and ex-Trump attorney Sidney Powell on behalf of presidential electors nominated by the Michigan Republican Party.

U.S. District Judge Linda Parker denied the request to overturn the election after Michigan voters handed the state to now-President Joe Biden by more than 154,000 votes. In her opinion, Parker argued that the lawsuit appeared to be an effort to undermine faith in the democratic process.

Explaining the request for sanctions, Nessel said, "These lawyers must be held accountable for betraying the trust placed in them as members of the bar."

 

[Jayjay]

It was a conspiracy. The largest conspiracy ever to have existed! Over 80 million people conspired to remove Donald Trump from office and steal the election.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

UnAmericans (ie, Democrats) were allowed to vote.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

People who think the election was won by Orange also believe in QAnon, Jewish lasers from space and Lizard People. Why aren't we investigating those claims?

 

[repoman]

Preface this with me not saying that I think large coordinated fraud happened at all.

I was just looking my old unused primary ballot from here in Washington state. It has a ballot number on it and that is about it for clearly identifying it came from a valid voter. In Washington we also can check that our ballot has been actually counted, which I have done before - but I don't think it tells who I voted for, can't remember.

Just spitballing on a "BIG STEAL" scenario where at the end of the count what look like real ballots (if hand counted) match the machine count, how would that fraud be done?

This will get far fetched in a way and require a lot of staffing and extreme secrecy...making it not likely

Is there a total count of ballots coming in to begin with for all the states? 4,675,396 votes cast, for example. Then all numbers have to balance later.

* Simplest way, do some level of fraud for total incoming ballots if 2 million cast say it was 1.9 million. By the time 1.8 million ballots processed and Trump ahead by 10,000 votes call an end to vote counting for the night. Then keep some crew, possibly elsewhere to go through the remaining 200,000 ballots by hand and make sure that of the 100,000 that are to be counted (100,000 will be shredded) that Biden has rock solid 60,000 vs Trump 40,000 votes. This is Banana Republic level, hopefully we are not at that stage yet. The machines were never the vector of fraud, but rather a tool to figure out how much hand fraud was needed.

* Have an entire second copy of many of the mail ballots printed so that Trump vote ballots are tossed and the same ballot number is filled in with Biden. Requires access to probably the same printing machines as the original ballots done in secret. Also pulling out of Trump ballots and quickly (overnight) replacing these with the same number copy ballots with Biden marked. Shredding the original ballots and then probably pulping or burning the shreds. Getting the fake backups in the building and the Trump votes out.

However, if this was done, then there was no fraud on the machines and the fraud can never be proven barring manual fraud having been caught on camera.

So what the Trumpies are saying is that the vote was stopped late in the evening as Trump was doing pretty well and the weasely Dems had a handle on just how big the fraud had to be.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Trump said that the election was stolen by Biden. Universally news sources and experts say, "no it wasn't".

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any? I've tried googling it. I can't find any coherent argument from Trump, or the Trump side. QAnon supporters repeat the statement. Again, no arguments. Just a repeated claim. Republicans trying to defend Trump, no arguments, just evasive bullshit clearly statements.

Can somebody tell me how Biden supposedly stole the election, according to Trump?

Is he talking about the postal votes? Which, again, was an argument I didn't understand. Because Republicans can also vote by mail. So I never understood what Trump had a problem with?

I do realize that Trump said a lot of things that he just pulled out of his ass, and there might not be an explanation to this. But he had a lot of supporters who agreed with him that the election was stolen. So there must surely be some argument, however flimsy, that convinced them? Right?

We have some far right Christian news sources here: OAN and NewsMax. They are even worse than Fox. They haven't accepted results to my knowledge.

What are Trump's arguments? Well, basically, they attacked everything. They said mail in ballots were handed in late, mail in ballots not verified, hunter biden and hillary clinton showed up in a porsche filled with 200k ballots all for Biden, a suitcase of ballots was left by an election worker, Republicans weren't allowed to observe anything, all of the voting machines were hacked by an international group the same way it happened in Venezuela and COMMUNIST China111!!!1, and dead people were voting.

All of these things have been debunked. Most in court and some at the state level bureaucracy. But afterward, other court cases happened by other groups with no standing to challenge them. These cases were dismissed for having no standing.

Then, the conspiratorial narrative transformed into "They dismissed ALL of the cases for standing. Our claims were never disproved."

 

[fromderinside]

A bunch of queers drove up in their old white van and buggered in front of evangelical Christians in suburban neighborhoods.*

^{_{*Lewis Black}}

 

[Shadowy Man]

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any?

He is a pathological liar with a narcissistic personality disorder that prevents him from acknowledging defeat under any circumstance. And he never apologizes for getting anything wrong.

He had already stated months before the election that if he loses it will be because the other side cheated. He claimed that the other side cheated in an election he actually won, four years ago!

They only claim cheating in states and counties he lost.

All evidence is consistent with his disorder and not with any reality of actual voter fraud.

There is nothing to understand other than the ravings of an insane person. The only thing to understand is why so many people “let him do it”. That is, the large number of enablers who hope to ride his popularity to obtain their own power. He would have no influence if people didn’t acquiesce to his insanity.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any?

He is a pathological liar with a narcissistic personality disorder that prevents him from acknowledging defeat under any circumstance. And he never apologizes for getting anything wrong.

He had already stated months before the election that if he loses it will be because the other side cheated. He claimed that the other side cheated in an election he actually won, four years ago!

They only claim cheating in states and counties he lost.

All evidence is consistent with his disorder and not with any reality of actual voter fraud.

There is nothing to understand other than the ravings of an insane person. The only thing to understand is why so many people “let him do it”. That is, the large number of enablers who hope to ride his popularity to obtain their own power. He would have no influence if people didn’t acquiesce to his insanity.

You got that right.

 

[Elixir]

Trump said that the election was stolen by Biden. Universally news sources and experts say, "no it wasn't".

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any? I've tried googling it. I can't find any coherent argument from Trump, or the Trump side. QAnon supporters repeat the statement. Again, no arguments. Just a repeated claim. Republicans trying to defend Trump, no arguments, just evasive bullshit clearly statements.

Can somebody tell me how Biden supposedly stole the election, according to Trump?

Is he talking about the postal votes? Which, again, was an argument I didn't understand. Because Republicans can also vote by mail. So I never understood what Trump had a problem with?

I do realize that Trump said a lot of things that he just pulled out of his ass, and there might not be an explanation to this. But he had a lot of supporters who agreed with him that the election was stolen. So there must surely be some argument, however flimsy, that convinced them? Right?

We have some far right Christian news sources here: OAN and NewsMax. They are even worse than Fox. They haven't accepted results to my knowledge.

What are Trump's arguments? Well, basically, they attacked everything. They said mail in ballots were handed in late, mail in ballots not verified, hunter biden and hillary clinton showed up in a porsche filled with 200k ballots all for Biden, a suitcase of ballots was left by an election worker, Republicans weren't allowed to observe anything, all of the voting machines were hacked by an international group the same way it happened in Venezuela and COMMUNIST China111!!!1, and dead people were voting.

All of these things have been debunked. Most in court and some at the state level bureaucracy. But afterward, other court cases happened by other groups with no standing to challenge them. These cases were dismissed for having no standing.

Then, the conspiratorial narrative transformed into "They dismissed ALL of the cases for standing. Our claims were never disproved."

More technically, their claims were never made.
Lawyers have an aversion to serving jail time, generally speaking.
So they don't make spurious claims to judges if they can avoid doing so. Filing frivolous suits lets them avoid that.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It was a conspiracy. The largest conspiracy ever to have existed! Over 80 million people conspired to remove Donald Trump from office and steal the election.

Not only in USA. Outside USA people continually spread anti-Trump propaganda in order to effect the American election results. 3 billion Internet trolls conspiring against (or rather, for) USA. IT IS A CONSPIRACY