How was the election supposedly stolen?

[Gun Nut]

Trump said that the election was stolen by Biden. Universally news sources and experts say, "no it wasn't".

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any? I've tried googling it. I can't find any coherent argument from Trump, or the Trump side. QAnon supporters repeat the statement. Again, no arguments. Just a repeated claim. Republicans trying to defend Trump, no arguments, just evasive bullshit clearly statements.

Can somebody tell me how Biden supposedly stole the election, according to Trump?

Is he talking about the postal votes? Which, again, was an argument I didn't understand. Because Republicans can also vote by mail. So I never understood what Trump had a problem with?

I do realize that Trump said a lot of things that he just pulled out of his ass, and there might not be an explanation to this. But he had a lot of supporters who agreed with him that the election was stolen. So there must surely be some argument, however flimsy, that convinced them? Right?

Senator Crawley was one of the worst offenders. He kept claiming that he had evidence, but couldn't produce it. When cornered, he claimed that his "evidence" was that there was an "abundance of allegations". It's crazy...

I recognise the form of this argument, "I believe in the Bible because it says in the Bible that the Bible is true. "

Bill Maher made the same observation and went further to draw many more parallels in behavior, and also pointed out the connection through signage displayed by the Insurrectionists on 1/6. "Jesus sent Trump..." "Pelosi is the Devil...", etc...
Polling demographics also shows a strong correlation between Evangelicals and Trumpism.

I think the quiet part is, "God sent us to make Abortion illegal using any means necessary... and no Man's law applies to us in that endeavor"

 

[blastula]

It was stolen by fraudulent, surprise ballot dumps (where a bunch of legally cast ballots are counted that show a vote for Biden, resulting in Biden having more total votes than Trump because of math).

 

[DrZoidberg]

It was stolen by fraudulent, surprise ballot dumps (where a bunch of legally cast ballots are counted that show a vote for Biden, resulting in Biden having more total votes than Trump because of math).

The outrage. It reminds me of students accusing nerds of cheating because they studied to the test.

 

[SLD]

Here is a list of the various lawsuits and their status.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-..._the_2020_United_States_presidential_election

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here is a list of the various lawsuits and their status.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-..._the_2020_United_States_presidential_election

Thanks. That's a pretty amazing list of accusations. Reading the rulings makes it even funnier. And sadder.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yes, the (2016) election was stolen

On 23 January, we learned that a former FBI special agent, Charles McGonigal, was arrested on charges involving taking money to serve foreign interests. One accusation is that in 2017 he took $225,000 from a foreign actor while in charge of counterintelligence at the FBI's New York office. Another charge is that McGonigal took money from Oleg Deripaska, a sanctioned Russian oligarch, after McGonigal’s 2018 retirement from the FBI. Deripaska, a hugely wealthy metals tycoon close to the Kremlin, "Putin's favorite industrialist," was a figure in a Russian influence operation that McGonigal had investigated in 2016. Deripaska has been under American sanctions since 2018. Deripaska is also the former employer, and the creditor, of Trump's 2016 campaign manager, Paul Manafort.

The reporting on this so far seems to miss the larger implications. One of them is that Trump’s historical position looks far cloudier. In 2016, Trump's campaign manager (Manafort) was a former employee of a Russian oligarch (Deripaska), and owed money to that same Russian oligarch. And the FBI special agent (McGonigal) who was charged with investigating the Trump campaign's Russian connections then went to work (according to the indictment) for that very same Russian oligarch (Deripaska). This is obviously very bad for Trump personally. But it is also very bad for FBI New York, for the FBI generally, and for the United States of America.

Another is that we must revisit the Russian influence operation on Trump’s behalf in 2016, and the strangely weak American response. Moscow’s goal was to move minds and institutions such that Hillary Clinton would lose and Donald Trump would win. We might like to think that any FBI special agent would resist, oppose, or at least be immune to such an operation. Now we are reliably informed that a trusted FBI actor, one who was responsible for dealing with just this sort of operation, was corrupt. And again, the issue is not just the particular person. If someone as important as McGonigal could take money from foreigners while on the job at FBI New York, and then go to work for a sanctioned Russian oligarch he was once investigating, what is at stake, at a bare minimum, is the culture of the FBI's New York office. The larger issue is the health of our national discussions of politics and the integrity of our election process.

The Specter of 2016

McGonigal, Trump, and the Truth about America

snyder.substack.com

 

[ZiprHead]

Behind the scenes of Durham investigation reveals special counsel engaged in serious abuse of power

Almost four years after launching his investigation into the less than two year Russia investigation, John Durham came up with no proof that the FBI, DOJ, or any member of Robert Mueller’s team did anything wrong. But that doesn’t mean that Durham did nothing wrong.

In fact, according to The New York Times, after finding nothing but actions taken in good faith by other investigators, Durham ended up chasing down several avenues that he never shared with the America people. That includes covering up evidence provided by Italian intelligence that Donald Trump might have undisclosed fiscal ties to Russia.

But that’s far from the worst aspect of Durham’s investigation. Because it certainly seems as if, in his attempt to prove that the FBI stepped over the line when looking into Trump, Durham didn’t just step over the lines, he erased them. And in at least one extraordinary instance, the man investigating the Russia investigation took his marching orders straight from … Russia.

What’s amazing about the Times look into the Durham investigation is that Durham seems to have done almost everything that Trump accused the Mueller investigators of doing. For example, where Republicans have repeatedly gone apoplectic in their efforts to prove that the information collected by former British Intelligence officer Christopher Steele was central to the Russia investigation (it wasn’t) and pretended that Steele’s memos were all unsourced rumors planted by the Russian government. Durham based parts of his operation on information that was without a doubt being shipped straight from Moscow.

Mr. Durham used Russian intelligence memos—suspected by other U.S. officials of containing disinformation—to gain access to emails of an aide to George Soros, the financier and philanthropist who is a favorite target of the American right and Russian state media. Mr. Durham used grand jury powers to keep pursuing the emails even after a judge twice rejected his request for access to them. The emails yielded no evidence that Mr. Durham has cited in any case he pursued.

 

[ZiprHead]

On one of Mr. Barr and Mr. Durham’s trips to Europe, according to people familiar with the matter, Italian officials — while denying any role in setting off the Russia investigation — unexpectedly offered a potentially explosive tip linking Mr. Trump to certain suspected financial crimes.

Mr. Barr and Mr. Durham decided that the tip was too serious and credible to ignore. But rather than assign it to another prosecutor, Mr. Barr had Mr. Durham investigate the matter himself — giving him criminal prosecution powers for the first time — even though the possible wrongdoing by Mr. Trump did not fall squarely within Mr. Durham’s assignment to scrutinize the origins of the Russia inquiry, the people said.

Mr. Durham never filed charges, and it remains unclear what level of an investigation it was, what steps he took, what he learned and whether anyone at the White House ever found out. The extraordinary fact that Mr. Durham opened a criminal investigation that included scrutinizing Mr. Trump has remained secret.

But in October 2019, a garbled echo became public. The Times reported that Mr. Durham’s administrative review of the Russia inquiry had evolved to include a criminal investigation, while saying it was not clear what the suspected crime was. Citing their own sources, many other news outlets confirmed the development.

The news reports, however, were all framed around the erroneous assumption that the criminal investigation must mean Mr. Durham had found evidence of potential crimes by officials involved in the Russia inquiry. Mr. Barr, who weighed in publicly about the Durham inquiry at regular intervals in ways that advanced a pro-Trump narrative, chose in this instance not to clarify what was really happening.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Trump said that the election was stolen by Biden. Universally news sources and experts say, "no it wasn't".

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any? I've tried googling it. I can't find any coherent argument from Trump, or the Trump side. QAnon supporters repeat the statement. Again, no arguments. Just a repeated claim. Republicans trying to defend Trump, no arguments, just evasive bullshit clearly statements.

Can somebody tell me how Biden supposedly stole the election, according to Trump?

Is he talking about the postal votes? Which, again, was an argument I didn't understand. Because Republicans can also vote by mail. So I never understood what Trump had a problem with?

I do realize that Trump said a lot of things that he just pulled out of his ass, and there might not be an explanation to this. But he had a lot of supporters who agreed with him that the election was stolen. So there must surely be some argument, however flimsy, that convinced them? Right?

Lots of claims without evidence. Voting machines from a Venezualan company rigged to flip votes. Dominion. Abusing voting by mail to register thousands of dead people. Voting machines controlled by satellite from Italy. Thousands of fake ballots smuggled into vote counting operations. Vote harvesting schemes filling in blank ballots. And on and on. Debunked again and again. Such as the ninjas in Arizona.

All false, debunked, all bullshit. Lies that will not die.

 

[Toni]

Trump said that the election was stolen by Biden. Universally news sources and experts say, "no it wasn't".

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement. Is there any? I've tried googling it. I can't find any coherent argument from Trump, or the Trump side. QAnon supporters repeat the statement. Again, no arguments. Just a repeated claim. Republicans trying to defend Trump, no arguments, just evasive bullshit clearly statements.

Can somebody tell me how Biden supposedly stole the election, according to Trump?

Is he talking about the postal votes? Which, again, was an argument I didn't understand. Because Republicans can also vote by mail. So I never understood what Trump had a problem with?

I do realize that Trump said a lot of things that he just pulled out of his ass, and there might not be an explanation to this. But he had a lot of supporters who agreed with him that the election was stolen. So there must surely be some argument, however flimsy, that convinced them? Right?

There is no coherent argument from Trump, partially because Trump is incapable of being coherent. He's also incapable of saying or doing anything that is not in his own calculated best interest, as calculated by him. He believes people as long as they tell him what he wants to hear and the moment they do not, then they are dead to him. I realize that sounds like I'm just making this up but honestly, if you have been following him with any attention to these things, you'll find that this is quite accurate. Reading anything Trump tweets or listening to anything he says (way worse) is simply word salad. It's not coherent. It's just a bunch of poorly worded, unexamined and un-credentialed accusations and hyperbolic self praise.

As far as others backing up his claims: they want whatever they think he can give them, mostly $$ and access to $$ and power which is really just $$. For the general population--and I think this is a real problem: people believe what they believe because largely, people live in echo chambers, and fail to recognize that they are living in an echo chamber. People who support Trump (general population here) do so for a number of reasons but I think the largest one is that he makes them feel comfortable in their prejudices. He confirms their world view. And because they mostly associate with people who have the same kind of background, the same kind of education/lack thereof, go to the same churches, hang out with the same 20 or 50 people who are just like them, then it stands to reason that there was a bunch of funny business with the elections because they don't know a single person who voted for the other guy.

That second paragraph: that's not just about the right wing contingent. I think it's just how we live these days, in a bubble, convinced nothing we do really matters and seeking to confirm what we already think we know and hoping to make a $ or two off of it.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The Dominion lawsuits against Faux Noise are scheduled to start this April. This should be good for laughs and giggles through much of 2023. All of this is going to be examined in great detail in a court room.

 

[SLD]

They’ve always been vague about the fraud allegations, and they vary from state to state. In Arizona it was fake ballots, proved by bamboo wood in some of them. This made in China.

In Georgia it was corrupt election officials in Atlanta who changed the electronic votes.

In other states it was Dominion that was hacked, or the software was run by Hugo Chavez supporters.

Beyond that there are no really serious arguments. They often point out that they were ahead in the early returns, but the mail in ballots that were counted later gave Biden the edge in key states. This is simply because Trump kept downplaying the pandemic and his supporters tended to vote live more often. Biden supporters tended to vote by mail as they took the pandemic more serious. But it’s fraud according to these morons.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The Dominion lawsuits against Faux Noise are scheduled to start this April. This should be good for laughs and giggles through much of 2023. All of this is going to be examined in great detail in a court room.

Release the Kraken!

 

[Patooka]

Trump campaign staff on 2020 election lies: ‘fan the flame’

A newly released audio recording offers a behind-the-scenes look at how former President Donald Trump’s campaign team in a pivotal battleground state knew they had been outflanked by Democrats in the 2020 presidential election.

apnews.com

“Here’s the drill: Comms is going to continue to fan the flame and get the word out about Democrats trying to steal this election. We’ll do whatever they need (inaudible) help with. Just be on standby in case there’s any stunts we need to pull,” Iverson said.

And yet people still believe this shite.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Firm hired by Trump to prove 2020 election was stolen comes up empty handed.

.....
A research firm investigated Donald Trump’s assertion that the presidential election was fraudulent, but its findings were suppressed because they found nothing to support his claims, The Washington Post reported citing four sources familiar with the matter
.....

Firm Hired By Trump To Prove Election Fraud Came Up Empty: Report

The Berkeley Research Group's findings were squashed because they did not align with Trump's election lies.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Shadowy Man]

I’m sure a bunch of flat earthers doing their own research can get to the bottom of this mystery.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Firm hired by Trump to prove 2020 election was stolen comes up empty handed.

.....
A research firm investigated Donald Trump’s assertion that the presidential election was fraudulent, but its findings were suppressed because they found nothing to support his claims, The Washington Post reported citing four sources familiar with the matter
.....

Firm Hired By Trump To Prove Election Fraud Came Up Empty: Report

The Berkeley Research Group's findings were squashed because they did not align with Trump's election lies.

www.huffpost.com

That's so sneaky and cowardly of the Democrats. Only the most vile scum would hide the evidence this well

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What evidence? They didn't research the issue, they researched the data Trump profided to them.

The research group’s officials maintained privately that they did not come into the research with any predetermined conclusions and simply wanted to examine the data provided by the Trump campaign in the battleground states

There was absolutely nothing to Trump's claims. We knew this back then. It is why almost all of thes3 claims were never made UNDER OATH.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

But it is nice to know his own hirelings found there was no stolen elections, election fraud, and told him so. And he paid good money for that, unless he shafted them as is usual with Trump. A possible problem for future law suits.

 

[RVonse]

But what I don't understand is Trump's arguments for this statement.

You're expecting this question to be subject to rational scrutiny. You're going to be disappointed.

Think more along the lines of a creationist. Start with an intolerable conclusion.
"Humans are a form of ape, no more special than the shit-flinging chimp in the zoo." or "Trump lost the election, fair and square, mostly because he flung too much shit and didn't do enough work."

The easiest explanation that makes (the hypothetical) YOU correct is that all the other sides of the argument are not being rational. They're cheating. Thus:
"Scientists know God is real, Man is special but deny and even hide the truth because reasons. They'd rather be right than honestly face the truth."
"Democrats know Trump actually won the election, but that's intolerable, so they cheated. They'd rather win than honestly submit to the will of the REAL voters."

So pretty much the entire presidency from Election day to the riot, Trump sat in his office collecting every more fantastic tales of fraud, chicanery, foreign interference, burning ballots, printing up fake ballots, dead people voting, and gluing two fossils together to fake a missing link.

The thing to do is NOT to try to understand the claim. Just keep demanding the claimants show ANY sort of support.

With the passage of time we now know some of things claimed by the Trump camp have actually been proven true. For example, the FBI deliberately steered Twitter not to reveal negative coverage of Biden during the election. Digital evidence establishing FBI giving orders to a private organization for political promotion. Why is it any better for the FBI to interfere in an election exactly as was blamed by Russia?

Just to be clear, I am not saying I thought the election was stolen. Its just not rational to automatically dismiss everything the Trump supporters do after evidence has been produced which verifies some of their claims.