Daunte Wright shot with Taser. And by "taser," I mean, "Gun."

[ZiprHead]

Please! As if you didn't post this about Chauvin.

Show me the video of Duante "armed robbering" the woman as alleged and I might agree he committed a felony. All I know of is that charges were filed. That makes Duante a"a violent felon" according to you, even though you have seen no evidence to support that claim.
OTOH I SAW Chauvin on tape, murdering a man in cold blood, with calm, cool deliberate action while being informed that he was doing so. That makes him "innocent until proven guilty" in your book, even though he too was "charged"! Just like Duante, Derec.
Don't be such a hypocrite, then try to weasel out of it by pretending there is some equivalence.

We've seen the social media pics. This guy is a thug.

 

[TomC]

We've seen the social media pics. This guy is a thug.

View attachment 32982

Somebody is probably gonna tell me I'm racist again.
But I don't like either of them, based on the pics.
Nothing about race, it's the attitude towards guns based on the pics.
Tom

 

[Toni]

We've seen the social media pics. This guy is a thug.

View attachment 32982

Somebody is probably gonna tell me I'm racist again.
But I don't like either of them, based on the pics.
Nothing about race, it's the attitude towards guns based on the pics.
Tom

But is that any reason for either of them to be dead?

 

[Elixir]

At that point the cops have choices - A) let him go (diving for cover in case he WAS 'going for a gun') and pick him up later, B) use less than lethal force to subdue him on the spot, or C) kill the motherfucker outright.
They either chose "C" or inadvertently accomplished "C" while intending to do "B".

I do not ascribe to malice that which is credibly explained by incompetence. But maybe - just MAYBE, "A" would have been the more prudent choice.
Certainly one person who is dead would still be alive and another who has lost her career and is charged with a felony would still have her job and not be in legal trouble, facing jail time.
Of course, there's always the chance that she's an accidental heroine who saved society from what would have been the next mass murdering serial killer rampage with an AR-15,
but I find that possibility rather remote.

I do agree with TV&CC that she is likely not a "dipshit", and may be an essentially good person whose life is now in ruins.

The problem with choice A is that if you make that the norm you might as well not have a police department because they're not going to do much good. The bad guys will always run and never be caught.

Not true. For instance, 27 million dollars would have financed many many episodes of surveilling, then showing up with overwhelming force to arrest a person at their residence, workplace or other location they frequent. Do that a few times, and serving notice that you're going to do it would probably suffice to get most to turn themselves in.

 

[Elixir]

Clear to who?
Certainly not me.
Tom

Of course. I have come to expect a lot of things to elude you, and doubt that I'm alone in that.

 

[TomC]

Somebody is probably gonna tell me I'm racist again.
But I don't like either of them, based on the pics.
Nothing about race, it's the attitude towards guns based on the pics.
Tom

But is that any reason for either of them to be dead?

And as usual, you came up with an irrelevant rhetorical question.

So, I'll ask you a couple.
Are they both alive?
Did they both resist arrest with illegal weapons on their record?

I have no reason to think that either of them "should" be dead. But one might and the other not, based on behavior not race. Can you grasp the possibility that behavior is generally the deciding factor, not race?
Tom

 

[Derec]

more poorly behaved--out of control, even, than their white peers for exactly the same behavior. and are more harshly punished for offenses than their white peers,

Are they though? The data I have seen only shows that e.g. black students have more disciplinary incidents per capita, but that does in no way mean that they are punished more harshly for the same behavior.

It is a fallacy to think that a difference in outcome (e.g. more suspensions for black kids) is evidence that they are treated differently.

 

[Derec]

Sean Hannity referred to the unarmed 13 year old Adam Toledo, who was shot by police after he complied by dropping his weapon and having his hands up as a 13 year old MAN.

1. Adam alias Bvby Diablo alias Lil Homicide has his own thread. No need to derail this one.
2. It is a lie to say that Lil Homicide was unarmed.


3. You called 20 year old adult Duane Wright a child. So I guess you and Hannity are even on age misrepresentation.

 

[Toni]

more poorly behaved--out of control, even, than their white peers for exactly the same behavior. and are more harshly punished for offenses than their white peers,

Are they though? The data I have seen only shows that e.g. black students have more disciplinary incidents per capita, but that does in no way mean that they are punished more harshly for the same behavior.

It is a fallacy to think that a difference in outcome (e.g. more suspensions for black kids) is evidence that they are treated differently.

Lots of studies seem to indicate so:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/17/8255

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/school-climate-and-safety.pdf

https://www.brown.edu/news/2019-07-18/discipline

And too many more.

I'm pretty sure that when you were in school, you noticed that some kids were treated differently than others. In my schools, except for first and half of second grade, all students were white. But it was obvious that some teachers liked some students more than others. Not the good teachers, but the average ones, for sure. One year, there was a particular girl in my class who was perfectly fine. She was a little chatty and a little outspoken but not much. (I had really high standards for other children's behavior when I was a kid). Still, that poor girl was always in trouble for things that other kids routinely did (talking out of turn, not forming a straight enough line, etc.) without any notice from the teacher. Another was a boy who was always, always always blamed for whatever happened at school. Because I was good at academics (same teacher told me I was 'lucky' to get a perfect score on my math tests. Boys were smart. I was 'lucky.') I, and other 'good' students were often asked to help other students who were lagging. One was that poor boy who was always in trouble. It turns out that he was really, really smart, especially in math--much faster than I was at recalling math facts, etc. Yet if he got all the problems right, he was accused of cheating. He wasn't dumb--he just decided it didn't matter what he did, he was going to get in trouble for it anyway. And he was right. Another boy, who for some reason I could not understand was the teacher's favorite student, was mean and hateful and used to relentlessly pick on the girl who was intellectually challenged--in front of the teacher, who not only did not care but encouraged him. Hey, I was lucky. I was smart and my parents highly valued good behavior so I was well behaved at school. My older sibling was an excellent student so it was assumed that I was smart from the beginning. I walked into class ahead of most of the other kids because of my older sibling. I stayed there because I read a lot and was good at math and puzzles, etc. But there were definitely other kids who were smarter than I was but who were not seen that way because of...I have no idea. I do not understand why that teacher hated Pam and Mike and liked Larry but she certainly did. The kids she didn't like were frequently sent to the principal's office. Larry could do not wrong, even when he was a horrid bully.

It just doesn't take much imagination to see that the same thing happens based on teacher's perceptions which are often formed based on how a kid looks: Neat and tidy? Confident? Smiles? Is quiet unless spoken to? All good! Awakens some deeply held and probably very unconscious prejudice inside the teacher? Maybe not so good. Why are they grinning all the time? Quiet? Must be not paying attention. Dressed nicely? Mamma must be scamming the welfare people again. And so on. Even when they don't mean to do it.

Think about the differences in how boys and girls are treated in many classrooms--classrooms which are structured to play to the strengths of girls with better fine motor skills, who are quieter and more inclined to sit still vs boys who have better gross motor skills at that age, and usually less good listening skills. Equally bright, equally well behaved within general parameters but a lot of teachers really think of boys as more trouble than girls. At least until a certain age.

 

[Trausti]

Asians are a magical people; they disappear when their presence disrupts narratives.

 

[Politesse]

Asians are a magical people; they disappear when their presence disrupts narratives.

Such as when someone wants to objectify their relative financial stability and weaponize it as a tool to further a white supremacist agenda, but they inconveniently have their own much more diverse and nuanced perspectives on police violence against minorities?

 

[Elixir]

We've seen the social media pics. This guy is a thug.

Are you implying that police are doing their job when they kill people whose social media pics scare you?
I'm struck by the denial in this thread...

Since testimony began on March 29, at least 64 people have died at the hands of law enforcement nationwide, with Black and Latino people representing more than half of the dead

Non-whites are very scary.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We've seen the social media pics. This guy is a thug.

View attachment 32982

Somebody is probably gonna tell me I'm racist again.
But I don't like either of them, based on the pics.
Nothing about race, it's the attitude towards guns based on the pics.
Tom

Seconded. And it's not just the gun pic I was referring to. Gun pics + lots of cash pics = thug.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

At that point the cops have choices - A) let him go (diving for cover in case he WAS 'going for a gun') and pick him up later, B) use less than lethal force to subdue him on the spot, or C) kill the motherfucker outright.
They either chose "C" or inadvertently accomplished "C" while intending to do "B".

I do not ascribe to malice that which is credibly explained by incompetence. But maybe - just MAYBE, "A" would have been the more prudent choice.
Certainly one person who is dead would still be alive and another who has lost her career and is charged with a felony would still have her job and not be in legal trouble, facing jail time.
Of course, there's always the chance that she's an accidental heroine who saved society from what would have been the next mass murdering serial killer rampage with an AR-15,
but I find that possibility rather remote.

I do agree with TV&CC that she is likely not a "dipshit", and may be an essentially good person whose life is now in ruins.

The problem with choice A is that if you make that the norm you might as well not have a police department because they're not going to do much good. The bad guys will always run and never be caught.

Not true. For instance, 27 million dollars would have financed many many episodes of surveilling, then showing up with overwhelming force to arrest a person at their residence, workplace or other location they frequent. Do that a few times, and serving notice that you're going to do it would probably suffice to get most to turn themselves in.

Showing up with overwhelming force = SWAT raid = sometimes people end up dead.

And that's assuming you know where he's actually staying. Often the police don't.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We've seen the social media pics. This guy is a thug.

Are you implying that police are doing their job when they kill people whose social media pics scare you?
I'm struck by the denial in this thread...

Since testimony began on March 29, at least 64 people have died at the hands of law enforcement nationwide, with Black and Latino people representing more than half of the dead

Non-whites are very scary.

The claim was he wasn't a criminal as he hadn't been convicted of anything. I'm saying the pics leave little doubt he was a criminal.

 

[Toni]

We've seen the social media pics. This guy is a thug.

Are you implying that police are doing their job when they kill people whose social media pics scare you?
I'm struck by the denial in this thread...

Since testimony began on March 29, at least 64 people have died at the hands of law enforcement nationwide, with Black and Latino people representing more than half of the dead

Non-whites are very scary.

The claim was he wasn't a criminal as he hadn't been convicted of anything. I'm saying the pics leave little doubt he was a criminal.

No, the pictures do not show him committing any crime at all.

Why is it so important to you that he was a criminal?

 

[Trausti]

Asians are a magical people; they disappear when their presence disrupts narratives.

Such as when someone wants to objectify their relative financial stability and weaponize it as a tool to further a white supremacist agenda, but they inconveniently have their own much more diverse and nuanced perspectives on police violence against minorities?

What does that have to do with purposefully excluding Asians when making racial treatment comparisons?

 

[laughing dog]

We've seen the social media pics. This guy is a thug.

Are you implying that police are doing their job when they kill people whose social media pics scare you?
I'm struck by the denial in this thread...

Since testimony began on March 29, at least 64 people have died at the hands of law enforcement nationwide, with Black and Latino people representing more than half of the dead

Non-whites are very scary.

The claim was he wasn't a criminal as he hadn't been convicted of anything. I'm saying the pics leave little doubt he was a criminal.

This is evidence that no one should take your views on these matters seriously.

 

[Jarhyn]

The claim was he wasn't a criminal as he hadn't been convicted of anything. I'm saying the pics leave little doubt he was a criminal.

This is evidence that no one should take your views on these matters seriously.

If pics of money and pretending you're tough were evidence of criminality, damn near every high school student everywhere is a criminal. Though most don't actually post guns...

Kids post stupid shit on their FB and this is one of those things.

 

[TomC]

There are readily available statistics on this subject and violent crime.
They are. More importantly, they're more likely to commit violent crimes. By a lot. A person in Wright's demographic, YBM with a police record, is hugely more dangerous than someone like you.

It's discriminatory to recognize that YBM are more likely to be violent, but it's also rational. It's not the irrational discrimination, rampant in the olden days, it's a clear eyed assessment of the risk posed by any particular individual. YBM are just plain more dangerous, as a group, than people like you. There's solid statistical evidence for this.


I dunno about any of that.

There might be someone with less credibility, to me, than Hannity. I don't pay attention to them either.


I'm not saying that race doesn't matter at all. I'm saying that other things, mainly behavior, matter far more. I'm sure that under the same circumstances,( expired plates and charges of violent crimes and illegal weapons and resisting arrest and diving for the obvious place to keep a gun), a blue eyed blonde would also have been shot. A taser would have handled the situation in a nonlethal way, everyone knows that. The gun was a mistake. Metaphorical heads have rolled, as they should.

But once again, some people are insisting that this is about racism. With nothing resembling support for that opinion other than the confirmation bias in their media consumption.
Tom

Regardless of your personal feelings about Sean Hannity, he has a National platform and he is paid a lot of money and a lot of attention to spout racism. And an enormous audience. Because a lot of people are buying what he’s selling a d he’s more than happy to deliver even if neither of us are buying. Lots are. Why is there a market fir his brand of shit? Because it confirms what a lot of people think: black people are adults at ages that white people think their own children are, well, children who deserve to be loved and protects. Black people are less honest, more violent, more criminal, stronger, more impervious to pain than White people. But not as smart. Not nearly as smart or hard working. It’s easier to treat black people poorky if you believe that shit. Much easier. Worked well for slavers and works well today.

OK.
You don't want to talk about what I said. You want to talk about Hannity and the huge problems with modern infotainment media.

I'm willing, but your post was a total dodge of mine.

Tom

I'm just skipping the part that those who are so certain that whatever the latest black person to be killed by police or police wannabes 'deserved' to be killed

I wouldn't use the word "deserved". It's not totally inaccurate, but it misses my point.
Bad things happen when you mess with the cops. However, one can mitigate the chance of something this dreadful by cooperation at the scene. I'm not claiming race plays no part, but I don't believe it's as important a part as you do.
I think someone already pointed out that a black cop is more likely to kill a YBM than than a white cop. I'm sure that has little to do with racism and far more to do with black cops working in areas with more black people.

will ignore rather large body of research that analyzes data showing that from infancy onward, black children are regarded as being less vulnerable, more poorly behaved--out of control, even, than their white peers for exactly the same behavior. and are more harshly punished for offenses than their white peers, through the differences in medicine TODAY--not just 50 or 100 years ago-- in how black vs white patients are treated, (assumed to be drug seeking and to have a high tolerance for pain, etc.) and how this carries on into out of school treatment by society in general, by police in general, even black cops. I'm assuming you are familiar with these studies and simply ignore them or 'find flaws' because you disagree.

You're rather making my case for me here. You're giving your explanation for why YBM are relatively belligerent and dangerous. But it's not relevant to what happens at the scene. That's what is relevant, in cases like this.
Tom