Officers Who Shot 12-Year-Old Holding Toy Gun Refused To Give Him First Aid

[abaddon]

He didn't pull the gun on them they arrived and started shooting before accurately assessing the situation.

Watch this video to see how quickly ordinary cops shoot people that aren't a threat when they don't comply immediately to their barking orders. Surf all the related videos if you need more. I found there is an endless stream of bad shootings by police against the public.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLiAWdq9pf0[/YOUTUBE]

This isn't evidence of anything. You can't see what the guy did. If you're challenged to put the knife down and come at the cop of course they're going to fire.

That video doesn’t include a witness shouting at the policeman “What happened? He didn’t do anything!” and the policeman’s response “Ma’am he had a knife and wouldn’t drop it”. A minute later when other officers arrived, the policeman explains “He wouldn’t drop it [the knife] then turned towards me”. In fact he says “He wouldn’t drop the knife” as his reason for killing the man 5 or 6 times throughout a fuller video:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnKLEOXenow[/YOUTUBE]

So, the man was killed for not obeying someone barking orders at him but rather turning to see what all the shouting was. Dashcam shows 4 seconds between first shouting at the suspect and opening fire.

All the bullet wounds were in the man’s back and side so he wasn't charging at the police officer. Seattle paid $1.5 million to the deceased victim’s family. Seattle Police Department’s Firearms Review Board ruled that the shooting unjustified and the officer retired from the force.

Watch the whole video. I think this other case is relevant to the OP’s situation in a few ways. Regarding the question about why didn't they help the little boy after shooting him, observe in the Seattle killing that even with the dead or dying body lying on the ground, the police won’t approach it except with an absurd excess of caution. They’re not thinking “He might still be alive, let’s help him.” They’re thinking “Let’s not any of us get scratched”. The deader the citizen is, the safer the police are.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

How is it evidence of poor training?

Is it legal to walk around in public with a knife in your hand?? I wouldn't think so--thus the cop is right to challenge him.

Yes, in general it is legal to do exactly that in most locations and situations.

And I've done it dozens of times because of dogs.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think this other case is relevant to the OP’s situation in a few ways. Regarding the question about why didn't they help the little boy after shooting him, observe in the Seattle killing that even with the dead or dying body lying on the ground, the police won’t approach it except with an absurd excess of caution. They’re not thinking “He might still be alive, let’s help him.” They’re thinking “Let’s not any of us get scratched”. The deader the citizen is, the safer the police are.

Exactly the point I have been trying to make, namely that cops are supposed to protect and serve the public. Neither of these situations were justified.

When I say we have a lot of unqualified cops in our municipalities I need go no further than this thread to demonstrate that. It is disturbing that people feel these shootings justified. I certainly wouldn't want them wearing badges.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Those Air Soft guns look way to realistic. They are exact replicas other than the orange tip.

Yup, they are *NOT* something for kids to have unsupervised access to.

 

[Nexus]

Yup, they are *NOT* something for kids to have unsupervised access to.

As some may be aware I'm very pro-gun but I don't think toy guns that can pass as real should not be played with by children. Not so much because the police may shoot them since that would be a very low risk but because children playing with realistic toy guns would be developing and reinforcing bad habits of poor firearm handling.

 

[laughing dog]

Those Air Soft guns look way to realistic. They are exact replicas other than the orange tip.

Yup, they are *NOT* something for kids to have unsupervised access to.

One could make a more compelling argument that with the recent spate of killings by police of essentially unarmed people that police should not have unsupervised access to real fire arms.

In any event, regardless of one's opinion of what toys children should have access to, that does not absolve police officers from avoidable misassessments of situations which lead to the needless deaths of children.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yup, they are *NOT* something for kids to have unsupervised access to.

As some may be aware I'm very pro-gun but I don't think toy guns that can pass as real should not be played with by children. Not so much because the police may shoot them since that would be a very low risk but because children playing with realistic toy guns would be developing and reinforcing bad habits of poor firearm handling.

Good point. I was thinking they would be acceptable in a controlled situation but you're probably right.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I did not allow war toys in my home when my child was small. When he was allowed to play with water guns, they were the "super soaker" type, so that they would be seen as nothing but a water gun. We had real guns in the home (locked and out of view), and I asked my kid did he want to learn how to shoot. He never said yes. Not a gun guy my kid,

However, you can't make it right that a twelve year old kid was killed by a policeman in less than two seconds of their meeting. That is not the kid's fault. No how. No way. We are not talking Hitler Youth manning a howitzer in 1945 Berlin. We are talking a thoughtless kid and a supposedly trained professional who is called to protect and serve and keep the peace. He is supposed to be able to take control of such a situation without killing the child.

Kids do stupid things. Kids do things without thinking. That is part of being a kid. And being a kid is not a capital offense in any state.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I did not allow war toys in my home when my child was small. When he was allowed to play with water guns, they were the "super soaker" type, so that they would be seen as nothing but a water gun. We had real guns in the home (locked and out of view), and I asked my kid did he want to learn how to shoot. He never said yes. Not a gun guy my kid,

However, you can't make it right that a twelve year old kid was killed by a policeman in less than two seconds of their meeting. That is not the kid's fault. No how. No way. We are not talking Hitler Youth manning a howitzer in 1945 Berlin. We are talking a thoughtless kid and a supposedly trained professional who is called to protect and serve and keep the peace. He is supposed to be able to take control of such a situation without killing the child.

Kids do stupid things. Kids do things without thinking. That is part of being a kid. And being a kid is not a capital offense in any state.

Reality isn't always fair.

If the kid can't properly handle a real-looking weapon then the parents shouldn't allow him access to one.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I did not allow war toys in my home when my child was small. When he was allowed to play with water guns, they were the "super soaker" type, so that they would be seen as nothing but a water gun. We had real guns in the home (locked and out of view), and I asked my kid did he want to learn how to shoot. He never said yes. Not a gun guy my kid,

However, you can't make it right that a twelve year old kid was killed by a policeman in less than two seconds of their meeting. That is not the kid's fault. No how. No way. We are not talking Hitler Youth manning a howitzer in 1945 Berlin. We are talking a thoughtless kid and a supposedly trained professional who is called to protect and serve and keep the peace. He is supposed to be able to take control of such a situation without killing the child.

Kids do stupid things. Kids do things without thinking. That is part of being a kid. And being a kid is not a capital offense in any state.

Reality isn't always fair.

So luckily for us, reality can be changed.

If the kid can't properly handle a real-looking weapon then the parents shouldn't allow him access to one.

Who said they did? I am sure when they bought it, It didn't look real, it looked like it had a orange tip. Provided they actually bought and the kid didn't trade for it.

You do not have children and you also appear to lack the imagination necessary to understand what it is like to have children. Children hide things and do stupid things. They don't deserve to die for either and adult are suppose to act it awys that acknowledge these fact.

Let me make this real simple. Barring something akin to open warfare, when a trained police officer in broad daylight shoots and kills a 12 year old with a toy, it's the cop's fault that the child is dead.

 

[Toni]

I did not allow war toys in my home when my child was small. When he was allowed to play with water guns, they were the "super soaker" type, so that they would be seen as nothing but a water gun. We had real guns in the home (locked and out of view), and I asked my kid did he want to learn how to shoot. He never said yes. Not a gun guy my kid,

However, you can't make it right that a twelve year old kid was killed by a policeman in less than two seconds of their meeting. That is not the kid's fault. No how. No way. We are not talking Hitler Youth manning a howitzer in 1945 Berlin. We are talking a thoughtless kid and a supposedly trained professional who is called to protect and serve and keep the peace. He is supposed to be able to take control of such a situation without killing the child.

Kids do stupid things. Kids do things without thinking. That is part of being a kid. And being a kid is not a capital offense in any state.

Reality isn't always fair.

If the kid can't properly handle a real-looking weapon then the parents shouldn't allow him access to one.

What exactly do you mean by 'properly?' You realize you are talking about a toy and not about an actual weapon, right?

There is NO WAY ON EARTH to spin this to make it the kid's fault or his parents' fault. The blame lays squarely with the officers involved and that of the police department for not properly training or screening personnel.

 

[laughing dog]

Reality isn't always fair.

If the kid can't properly handle a real-looking weapon then the parents shouldn't allow him access to one.

If the police can't properly handle a real weapon then society should not allow them access to one.

 

[Frikki]

Reality isn't always fair.

If the kid can't properly handle a real-looking weapon then the parents shouldn't allow him access to one.

What exactly do you mean by 'properly?' You realize you are talking about a toy and not about an actual weapon, right?

There is NO WAY ON EARTH to spin this to make it the kid's fault or his parents' fault. The blame lays squarely with the officers involved and that of the police department for not properly training or screening personnel.

Let´s face it. When you are talking to some people it will always be the victims fault because they are black.

 

[credoconsolans]

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

Yeah, Hollywood is *NOT* a reasonable indication of reality.

When you have anything that could be thought to be a real weapon you need to be aware that people might react as if it's real. Anyone who is too young to understand this is too young to have anything that's likely to be mistaken for a threat.

Agree.

Even kids are killers these days. Even accidentally.

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

I suspect that Tamir's parents taught him essentially the same thing. If you think that your 12 year old self would have behaved in a way that would have avoided being shot in this situation, I think you are being very naive.

I was in a very strange situation with cops. But I was 10 years old and nothing bad happened.

Also, "skittish" is an acceptable term to use to describe the mental state of a partially saddle-broken colt, but is completely unworthy of a trained professional policeman.

But certainly applicable to a human being.

Don't know many cops, do you? It is in the top 10 of stressful jobs.

I've trained with a few but that's irrelevant. And you need to get your rhetoric straight. You were defending their actions because because you said their job was so dangerous. Now you claiming its stress. Since your first point was incorrect its best to assume you're incorrect about this as well.

They're related phenomenon.

Occupational stress isn't something that can be objectively measured. At best its subjective self assessment and cops are notorious in claiming victim status after all they use it to justify themselves after they harm members of society.

Sadly, their job is not always to coddle people, is it?

 

[Toni]

Yeah, Hollywood is *NOT* a reasonable indication of reality.

When you have anything that could be thought to be a real weapon you need to be aware that people might react as if it's real. Anyone who is too young to understand this is too young to have anything that's likely to be mistaken for a threat.

Agree.

Even kids are killers these days. Even accidentally.

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

I suspect that Tamir's parents taught him essentially the same thing. If you think that your 12 year old self would have behaved in a way that would have avoided being shot in this situation, I think you are being very naive.

I was in a very strange situation with cops. But I was 10 years old and nothing bad happened.

Also, "skittish" is an acceptable term to use to describe the mental state of a partially saddle-broken colt, but is completely unworthy of a trained professional policeman.

But certainly applicable to a human being.

Don't know many cops, do you? It is in the top 10 of stressful jobs.

I've trained with a few but that's irrelevant. And you need to get your rhetoric straight. You were defending their actions because because you said their job was so dangerous. Now you claiming its stress. Since your first point was incorrect its best to assume you're incorrect about this as well.

They're related phenomenon.

Occupational stress isn't something that can be objectively measured. At best its subjective self assessment and cops are notorious in claiming victim status after all they use it to justify themselves after they harm members of society.

Sadly, their job is not always to coddle people, is it?

Coddle people?????? How? By not shooting children on sight?

 

[Underseer]

Agree.

Even kids are killers these days. Even accidentally.

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

I suspect that Tamir's parents taught him essentially the same thing. If you think that your 12 year old self would have behaved in a way that would have avoided being shot in this situation, I think you are being very naive.

I was in a very strange situation with cops. But I was 10 years old and nothing bad happened.

Also, "skittish" is an acceptable term to use to describe the mental state of a partially saddle-broken colt, but is completely unworthy of a trained professional policeman.

But certainly applicable to a human being.

Don't know many cops, do you? It is in the top 10 of stressful jobs.

I've trained with a few but that's irrelevant. And you need to get your rhetoric straight. You were defending their actions because because you said their job was so dangerous. Now you claiming its stress. Since your first point was incorrect its best to assume you're incorrect about this as well.

They're related phenomenon.

Occupational stress isn't something that can be objectively measured. At best its subjective self assessment and cops are notorious in claiming victim status after all they use it to justify themselves after they harm members of society.

Sadly, their job is not always to coddle people, is it?

Coddle people?????? How? By not shooting children on sight?

Yes, but it was a black child.

If you think that people should be punished for killing black children, then you hate our freedom and want to make us all less free. That's why America needs patriotic conservolibertarian Real Americans^TM who are ready to defend our freedom from people like you.

 

[HelixSpiral]

I don't think I've ever wanted to reach through my monitor and beat the crap out of a poster here before, but this thread is bringing pretty damn close to trying. I may have to use Ignore for the sake of my blood pressure.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I thought this article was pertinent.

Police can Better Calm Situations

In a July report on the Newark, New Jersey, department, the DOJ faulted a "pattern and practice of taking immediate offensive action" rather than acting within the bounds of the Constitution and displaying the "thick skin and patience" needed for the job.

I've always maintained that cops need to have the thickest skin of all. They need to be trained to NOT act aggressively.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Reality isn't always fair.

If the kid can't properly handle a real-looking weapon then the parents shouldn't allow him access to one.

What exactly do you mean by 'properly?' You realize you are talking about a toy and not about an actual weapon, right?

There is NO WAY ON EARTH to spin this to make it the kid's fault or his parents' fault. The blame lays squarely with the officers involved and that of the police department for not properly training or screening personnel.

Out in public you should handle replica weapons like you would handle real weapons. Including considering yourself armed if challenged by a cop.

 

[Rhea]

What exactly do you mean by 'properly?' You realize you are talking about a toy and not about an actual weapon, right?

There is NO WAY ON EARTH to spin this to make it the kid's fault or his parents' fault. The blame lays squarely with the officers involved and that of the police department for not properly training or screening personnel.

Out in public you should handle replica weapons like you would handle real weapons. Including considering yourself armed if challenged by a cop.

No. When you're a cop you should remember that kids love to play gun and don't escalate a situation stupidly to make no room for this well known feature of kids,. Cop did not have to pull up next to kid, did not have to shoot before assessing the situation, did not have to ignore the caller's statement that it was probably a toy. I find blaming the 12 child and absolving a trained "protection" officer of the need to exercise judgement to be sad and kind of grotesque. 12yo should make a better assessment than a cop. That makes no sense. Do you hear yourselves?