Covid-19 miscellany

[Toni]

That's not how chickenpox re-emerges as shingles.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/symptoms-causes/syc-20353054

Your link is mostly correct; Whether Barbos is too, depends on what he means by 'embeds itself in the genome'. Varicella (VZV) latency is characterised by the presence of episomal plasmids in axons; These aren't a part of the nuclear genome, and are not incorporated into the chromosomes, but they are DNA (rather than RNA). I would certainly hesitate to characterise this as 'embedding itself in the genome'.

It's now been determined that VZV latency is strictly Axonal, rather than being characteristic of satellite cells as implied by your link (and as was understood to be the case for a long time for sound clinical reasons, and which would have implied replication as part of routine mitosis - which would require closer involvement in the nuclear genome). PCR and laser-capture microdissection has definitively determined that the VZV episome in fact resides directly within ganglionic neurons during latency, rather than being incorporated into the DNA of nearby cells. (Eshleman, Shahzad and Cohrs, Future Virol. 2011 Mar; 6(3): 341–355)

TL;DR you are right, and he is out of date.

Yeah, my link was Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic is right.

 

[Toni]

That's not how chickenpox re-emerges as shingles.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/symptoms-causes/syc-20353054

Your link is mostly correct; Whether Barbos is too, depends on what he means by 'embeds itself in the genome'. Varicella (VZV) latency is characterised by the presence of episomal plasmids in axons; These aren't a part of the nuclear genome, and are not incorporated into the chromosomes, but they are DNA (rather than RNA). I would certainly hesitate to characterise this as 'embedding itself in the genome'.

It's now been determined that VZV latency is strictly Axonal, rather than being characteristic of satellite cells as implied by your link (and as was understood to be the case for a long time for sound clinical reasons, and which would have implied replication as part of routine mitosis - which would require closer involvement in the nuclear genome). PCR and laser-capture microdissection has definitively determined that the VZV episome in fact resides directly within ganglionic neurons during latency, rather than being incorporated into the DNA of nearby cells. (Eshleman, Shahzad and Cohrs, Future Virol. 2011 Mar; 6(3): 341–355)

TL;DR you are right, and he is out of date.

I am not out of date, just wrong. Actually I remember reading about claims that flue can hide in nerve cells too, in some people.
So yeah, C19 could too potentially.

Just saw this: I didn't mean to beat up on you. Yes, some viruses can live in certain cells in the body after recovery and re-emerge later to cause illness. So, if you ever had chickenpox, you should get the shingles vaccine!

 

[repoman]

Interesting video about gain of function by American Society for Microbiology (which Youtube marked as "From a medical journal. Learn how experts define health sources in a journal of the National Academy of Medicine")
from March 5, 2019.

 

[bilby]

That's not how chickenpox re-emerges as shingles.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/symptoms-causes/syc-20353054

Your link is mostly correct; Whether Barbos is too, depends on what he means by 'embeds itself in the genome'. Varicella (VZV) latency is characterised by the presence of episomal plasmids in axons; These aren't a part of the nuclear genome, and are not incorporated into the chromosomes, but they are DNA (rather than RNA). I would certainly hesitate to characterise this as 'embedding itself in the genome'.

It's now been determined that VZV latency is strictly Axonal, rather than being characteristic of satellite cells as implied by your link (and as was understood to be the case for a long time for sound clinical reasons, and which would have implied replication as part of routine mitosis - which would require closer involvement in the nuclear genome). PCR and laser-capture microdissection has definitively determined that the VZV episome in fact resides directly within ganglionic neurons during latency, rather than being incorporated into the DNA of nearby cells. (Eshleman, Shahzad and Cohrs, Future Virol. 2011 Mar; 6(3): 341–355)

TL;DR you are right, and he is out of date.

Yeah, my link was Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic is right.

Usually.

No person or organisation is infallible, nor can you depend on their website being up to date, even if their staff are.

 

[Toni]

Yeah, my link was Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic is right.

Usually.

No person or organisation is infallible, nor can you depend on their website being up to date, even if their staff are.

My "Mayo Clinic is right" comment was not universal. I read what they wrote and posted it because generally, their information is stated in clear, easy to understand phrasing for people without medical or science backgrounds. Not everybody has a background in immunology or biochemistry. I know a lot of very smart people who are really well versed in their fields of expertise but haven't a clue when it comes to most things medical. There has been so much deliberate misinformation spread on the internets and conservative media that it really complicates the issues of education re: COVID19.

That said, Mayo Clinic is relatively conservative which means that they are both utterly reliable and not necessarily 100% up to the second.

I really didn't mean to be so dogged. I was up too late trying to wait out a storm so we could take the dogs around the block before bed....

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nearly 85,000 cases today.

Hooray! in Covid19 Olumpics US is well ahead of Russia again (per capita) Russia. Russia is still ahead in daily deaths.

Russia's numbers are odd. The deaths are the highest they've been relative to daily cases. So either Delta is killing a bunch more people or Russia's daily case numbers are not accurate for whatever reason.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.

What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.

What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.

Because ALL PEOPLE can spread it to everyone else. Unvaccinated have a higher probability of getting and passing it, but in areas of low vaccination rates, many people spreading it will be vaccinated. In areas of high vaccination rates, it will be spread less and the severity will be less when it is spread. Besides all this, the uncomfortable truth is that people who are vaccinated are going to be more likely to listen to CDC recommendations to mask up while people who are not vaccinated will be more likely to disregard rules, recommendations, and take advantage of not masking up when public places say it is optional. The fakers cannot take advantage of rules if everyone has to mask up indoors.

 

[scombrid]

The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.

What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.

The more the unvaccinated spread it, the more is copies itself, the more chance a mutation comes along that renders the vaccine null. Plus there are people that cannot get vaccinated and they are vulnerable. They shouldn't have to shut down their life because some petulant able bodied child refuses to get vaccinated or take basic safety measures because you "cain't tell them wut to do". I have a friend on immunosuppressant therapy. These people are trying to kill him.

On top of that, if you live in a place where 60% of the population is voluntarily unvaccinated and there is a significant outbreak then there are substantial economic disruptions. A local Walmart recently closed. That didn't affect me. However, Half the vet techs at our hospital are out sick right now and one of their diabetic parents is probably going to die. Vet tech shortage hits the bottom line. Can't run as many rooms if you are short on techs. If they don't care about their health then neither do I but I care about my money.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.

What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.

Vaccinated would need to wear a mask because assholes are making all the wrong choices (especially in the US where the vaccine has been available for months), so it is the dumbasses ruined it for everyone else school days thing. Vaccinated people around vaccinated people (to this point) seem to be harmless. Sadly, America decided to forego the easy path.

To inhibit virus transmission you need to either vaccinate people or separate people via differing mechanisms, in this case, masks and short distances. And the unvaccinated aren't doing the mask thing... ie... the whole consequence of not being vaccinated.

I think the most preposterous part of this were the Q-Anon cultists who want to protect the children... yet could give a fuck about protecting the children from this disease, because unlike the pizzeria and the basis of Q-Anon, Covid-19 is a lie.

ETA: GDP was well shy of expected, in large part due to the assholes not getting vaccinated. So, not only are they fucking things up in general, their decisions are having a substantial effect on the American economy!

 

[repoman]

Not unexpected type of contract between Pfizer and Albania that has been leaked. Should be not censored because that feeds the paranoia more than this firm, but sensible contract.

https://gogo.al/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/LEXO-KONTRATEN-E-PLOTE.pdf

 

[blastula]

CDC should never have said vaccinated don't need to wear masks in the first place, since the unvaccinated are the kind of people would just stop wearing masks where it used to be required for everyone since nobody is asking for proof of vaccination.

 

[repoman]

This is interesting, taken out of context by a non expert in this (99.9% of people, of course including me) it looks bad, but probably not really

Audience: Individuals Performing COVID-19 Testing

Level: Laboratory Alert

After December 31, 2021, CDC will withdraw the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only. CDC is providing this advance notice for clinical laboratories to have adequate time to select and implement one of the many FDA-authorized alternatives.

Visit the FDA website for a list of authorized COVID-19 diagnostic methods. For a summary of the performance of FDA-authorized molecular methods with an FDA reference panel, visit this page.

In preparation for this change, CDC recommends clinical laboratories and testing sites that have been using the CDC 2019-nCoV RT-PCR assay select and begin their transition to another FDA-authorized COVID-19 test. CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season. Laboratories and testing sites should validate and verify their selected assay within their facility before beginning clinical testing.


Online resources:

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

CDC should never have said vaccinated don't need to wear masks in the first place, since the unvaccinated are the kind of people would just stop wearing masks where it used to be required for everyone since nobody is asking for proof of vaccination.

Made a reasonable assumption that maybe people wouldn't get as vaccinated if they still had to wear masks. The vaccine can't possibly work if you have to still wear your mask... etc... and what not.

The CDC should been a bit more forward with the anti-vaxxers with something like "You are an asshole if you pretend to be vaccinated and we'll hunt you down and grind you into sausage".

 

[TomC]

CDC should never have said vaccinated don't need to wear masks in the first place, since the unvaccinated are the kind of people would just stop wearing masks where it used to be required for everyone since nobody is asking for proof of vaccination.

I sorta understand what you're saying.
But the CDC was correct, if everyone did the right thing(get vaccination if you are able) we could forego masks and get society and the economy going again. But since enough people prefer to support and act on their partisan beliefs the CDC was wrong. The CDC didn't sufficiently factor in partisan bullshit and media lies.

An easy mistake to make.

The CDC assumed that competent USA adults would act in their own best interests. Clearly, they're not.
Tom

 

[Toni]

CDC should never have said vaccinated don't need to wear masks in the first place, since the unvaccinated are the kind of people would just stop wearing masks where it used to be required for everyone since nobody is asking for proof of vaccination.

Made a reasonable assumption that maybe people wouldn't get as vaccinated if they still had to wear masks. The vaccine can't possibly work if you have to still wear your mask... etc... and what not.

The CDC should been a bit more forward with the anti-vaxxers with something like "You are an asshole if you pretend to be vaccinated and we'll hunt you down and grind you into sausage".

I think it was also an example of somewhat optimistic carrot dangling: Get vaccinated and you won't have to wear a mask! With zero way for anyone to detect who had and who had not been vaccinated.

I guess one of the many lessons learned is to never underestimate the stupidity of some people or the willingness of some evil people to exploit the gullibility and vulnerability of some.

 

[TSwizzle]

The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.

What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.

It's certainly not science or data that drives these stupid directives.

Which is why I don't comply.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

CDC should never have said vaccinated don't need to wear masks in the first place, since the unvaccinated are the kind of people would just stop wearing masks where it used to be required for everyone since nobody is asking for proof of vaccination.

I sorta understand what you're saying.
But the CDC was correct, if everyone did the right thing(get vaccination if you are able) we could forego masks and get society and the economy going again. But since enough people prefer to support and act on their partisan beliefs the CDC was wrong. The CDC didn't sufficiently factor in partisan bullshit and media lies.

An easy mistake to make.

The CDC assumed that competent USA adults would act in their own best interests. Clearly, they're not.
Tom

And many have been voting in direct opposition to their own interests for decades, so: I'm Shocked! Okay, not that shocked, but I'm still somewhat shocked.

 

[lpetrich]

People who had been hospitalised and put on a ventilator saw the biggest deficit in the Great British Intelligence Test - equivalent to a seven-point drop in IQ. (summary snipped for brevity)

C'mon, anti-vaxxers. You have so little intelligence left to lose already.

I took that test - Great British Intelligence Test - some things I did well on, some things not so well.

 

[blastula]

I get that what they were hoping for, an incentive to vax, but it ended up a bad call, since now with the reversal, people are not wanting to be so cooperative anymore. Compliance is way down at least around me where it is now required again. The gym I go to even the staff aren't all wearing masks.