Ferguson Live Feed

[Togo]

laughingdog seems to take this approach when he dismisses objectivity as essentially unobtainable:

Strawman. He hasn't argued anything on the basis of a victim label, or on the basis of dividing people into wolves and lambs. The points he raises, which are a good ones that you've yet to acknowledge, are that the 'objectivity' of the DA's decision is not apparent, and that it might be preferable, and certainly cheaper, to prosecute a case that is unlikely to be successful than to dismiss the case on less than transparent grounds. That you may consider the decision to be objectively correct is not strictly relevant - other people clearly disagree with you, and public policy needs to reflect the need for transparency.

None of these fall into your article's categories of people who not only are not objective, but feel that objectivity itself is inappropriate.

I note that there are arguments on this thread that could fall into that category, such as the one where police officers have to be given allowances for their behaviour due to the stress and relative danger of their job. Whatever the merits of otherwise of such an argument, it is clearly an argument that seeks to provide an allowance for a class of potential offenders, and not for their victims. However, you have not chosen to pursue this.

Can you see how this might, to a neutral observer, suggest that you are not applying these criteria in a neutral fashion?

 

[Derec]

I thought I read that there was shot in the car door?

Since nobody used a shotgun I doubt that very much.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I thought I read that there was shot in the car door?

Since nobody used a shotgun I doubt that very much.

Okay, I am coming to most of this late, it looks like the driver window was shattered.

 

[Derec]

32 year old Bosnian (who are white) was brutally murdered by a hispanic and a black teenager in St. Louis.
Man dies after being struck by hammers

Is Irrev. Al Sharpton going to comment on this? How about Obama? Or even the St. Louis Rams?

 

[Derec]

Since nobody used a shotgun I doubt that very much.

Okay, I am coming to most of this late, it looks like the driver window was shattered.

Shot == shotgun pellets.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Oh yes I got it. I chuckled.

 

[ksen]

I thought I read that there was shot in the car door?

Since nobody used a shotgun I doubt that very much.

 

[maxparrish]

No, although much abused by badge heavy and politically ambitious prosecutor's, as an officer of the court the prosecutor's job is to seek justice.

We have an adversarial process where each side vigorously seek victory WITHIN the rules. Out of this process should come truth and thus justice. The DA seeks an indictment.

The DA seeks an indictment when he has probable cause and believes a person to be guilty. For someone who claims to support civil rights, I can't think of a more illiberal and reactionary view than the ones you just expressed. I was unable to find (or fathom) where on earth you got the benighted and legally primitive view that the fundamental goal of State prosecutors is "vigorously seeking victory" regardless of merit or justice. Just so you know, American law's ethical requirements for prosecutors is a tad more than that of the Church's Grand Inquisitor Torquemada or the Stalin's Vyshinsky:

1-1.1 Primary Responsibility
The prosecutor is an independent administrator of justice. The primary responsibility of a prosecutor is to seek justice, which can only be achieved by the representation and presentation of the truth. This responsibility includes, but is not limited to, ensuring that
the guilty are held accountable, that the innocent are protected from unwarranted harm, and that the rights of all participants, particularly victims of crime, are respected.

http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/NDAA NPS 3rd Ed. w Revised Commentary.pdf

ADA ethics standards:

Rule 3.8 Special Responsibilities Of A Prosecutor
The prosecutor in a criminal case shall:

(a) refrain from prosecuting a charge that the prosecutor knows is not supported by probable cause;
...

And...

Standard 3- 1.2 The Function of the Prosecutor

(a) The office of prosecutor is charged with responsibility for prosecutions in its jurisdiction.

(b) The prosecutor is an administrator of justice, an advocate, and an officer of the court; the prosecutor must exercise sound discretion in the performance of his or her functions.

(c) The duty of the prosecutor is to seek justice, not merely to convict.

And...

Standard 3-3.4 Decision to Charge

(a) The decision to institute criminal proceedings should be initially and primarily the responsibility of the prosecutor.

...

Standard 3-3.5 Relations with Grand Jury

(a) Where the prosecutor is authorized to act as legal advisor to the grand jury, the prosecutor may appropriately explain the law and express an opinion on the legal significance of the evidence but should give due deference to its status as an independent legal body.

...
Standard 3-3.6 Quality and Scope of Evidence Before Grand Jury

(a) A prosecutor should only make statements or arguments to the grand jury and only present evidence to the grand jury which the prosecutor believes is appropriate or authorized under law for presentation to the grand jury. In appropriate cases, the prosecutor may present witnesses to summarize admissible evidence available to the prosecutor which the prosecutor believes he or she will be able to present at trial. The prosecutor should also inform the grand jurors that they have the right to hear any available witnesses, including eyewitnesses.

(b) No prosecutor should knowingly fail to disclose to the grand jury evidence which tends to negate guilt or mitigate the offense.

(c) A prosecutor should recommend that the grand jury not indict if he or she believes the evidence presented does not warrant an indictment under governing law.

(d) If the prosecutor believes that a witness is a potential defendant, the prosecutor should not seek to compel the witness's testimony before the grand jury without informing the witness that he or she may be charged and that the witness should seek independent legal advice concerning his or her rights.

(f) A prosecutor in presenting a case to a grand jury should not intentionally interfere with the independence of the grand jury, preempt a function of the grand jury, or abuse the processes of the grand jury.

http://www.americanbar.org/publicat...ion_archive/crimjust_standards_pfunc_blk.html

Or, in Florida's implementation of the ABA ethics standards:

Standard 3-3.9: Discretion in the charging decision.
(a) A prosecutor should not institute, or cause to be instituted, or permit
the continued pendency of criminal charges when the prosecutor knows
that the charges are not supported by probable cause. A prosecutor should
not institute, cause to be instituted, or permit the continued pendency of
criminal charges in the absence of sufficient admissible evidence to
support a conviction.

http://www.locatethelaw.org/linked/ethics.pdf

Nor was he interest in finding facts. Giving Wilson the opportunity of a soliloquy is not fact finding.

LOL...in case you were not aware, he is a witness as well. And yep, under the law if the Grand Jury wants to hear his side of the story they can request it. He could, like many, have refused it but he appeared without a lawyer and answered their questions.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

http://www.academia.edu/669352/_The_Murder_of_Emmett_Till_Myth_Memory_and_National_Magazine_Response

Nowadays we skip the sympathic part and go right to the menacing thug part.

Other than that, the more things change the more they stay the same.

The Quincy Story

Themes

Based on an unconfirmed report by the media, the victim was at one point a victimizer; armed robber. If this is true, the fact that he was a white male, within his 30s, and with a prior criminal record validates the reference Karmen (2007) makes in the course text: “most perpetrators and many of their victims had been in trouble with the law before their final showdown” and that “about 45 percent of the deceased turned out to have criminal records (arrests or convictions for misdemeanors or felonies)” (p. 89).

Victim Portrayal

The victim was vilified by the media from the beginning of the report.

Media Reinforcement of Portrayal

The omnipresent vilification within this news piece was quite heavily supported by the biased comments of the outspoken reporter, who repeatedly mentioned the victim’s prior involvement, or insinuations of prior involvement, in the world of crime. Not only was the victim vilified, but he was also undignified, as according to the reporter the victim’s body laid next to a car: “only 30 feet behind me” – as the newscaster so prominently said.

Patterns

Official crime statistics and the Quincy murder victim are tied in closely. The victim is: male, in his 30’s, most likely single, living in lower to middle class environment and with a prior criminal record. Moreover, the news report further adds strength to this assertion by having viewers assume that there were two white males involved in the killing of the Caucasian victim. This supports the intraracial assertion by Karmen (2007).

http://criminaljusticeonlineblog.com/11/victimology-themes-patterns-victim-portrayal-and-the-media/

So race is the only factor in how the media portrays certain victims, or just one of many factors?

You still don't get it. No one has said anything is always the one thing. If that has been said, show where. If not, this proves nothing. And it certainly does not disprove centuries of documented history of race and racism, or the current lived experience of minorities in the US.

So what exactly is your point? What great truth propels you?

My point is there are people who can not see or will not see me or people like me. And they call us dumb or liars when we speak what see have lived in truth. Even as we die from their blindness, it is we who are wrong and we who cause evil be speaking that evils name. We are not real. We are phantoms to be feared and exorcised or not believed in and ignored.

For some,  Ralph Ellison is still right.

 

[ksen]

LOL...in case you were not aware, he is a witness as well. And yep, under the law if the Grand Jury wants to hear [Wilson's] side of the story they can request it. He could, like many, have refused it but he appeared without a lawyer and answered their questions.

No, he did have a lawyer present.

It's too bad that the Grand Jury couldn't have requested Brown's version of the story.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

We have an adversarial process where each side vigorously seek victory WITHIN the rules. Out of this process should come truth and thus justice. The DA seeks an indictment.

The DA seeks an indictment when he has probable cause and believes a person to be guilty. For someone who claims to support civil rights, I can't think of a more illiberal and reactionary view than the ones you just expressed. I was unable to find (or fathom) where on earth you got the benighted and legally primitive view that the fundamental goal of State prosecutors is "vigorously seeking victory" regardless of merit or justice. Just so you know, American law's ethical requirements for prosecutors is a tad more than that of the Church's Grand Inquisitor Torquemada or the Stalin's Vyshinsky:

1-1.1 Primary Responsibility
The prosecutor is an independent administrator of justice. The primary responsibility of a prosecutor is to seek justice, which can only be achieved by the representation and presentation of the truth. This responsibility includes, but is not limited to, ensuring that
the guilty are held accountable, that the innocent are protected from unwarranted harm, and that the rights of all participants, particularly victims of crime, are respected.

http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/NDAA NPS 3rd Ed. w Revised Commentary.pdf

ADA ethics standards:

Rule 3.8 Special Responsibilities Of A Prosecutor
The prosecutor in a criminal case shall:

(a) refrain from prosecuting a charge that the prosecutor knows is not supported by probable cause;
...

And...

Standard 3- 1.2 The Function of the Prosecutor

(a) The office of prosecutor is charged with responsibility for prosecutions in its jurisdiction.

(b) The prosecutor is an administrator of justice, an advocate, and an officer of the court; the prosecutor must exercise sound discretion in the performance of his or her functions.

(c) The duty of the prosecutor is to seek justice, not merely to convict.

And...

Standard 3-3.4 Decision to Charge

(a) The decision to institute criminal proceedings should be initially and primarily the responsibility of the prosecutor.

...

Standard 3-3.5 Relations with Grand Jury

(a) Where the prosecutor is authorized to act as legal advisor to the grand jury, the prosecutor may appropriately explain the law and express an opinion on the legal significance of the evidence but should give due deference to its status as an independent legal body.

...
Standard 3-3.6 Quality and Scope of Evidence Before Grand Jury

(a) A prosecutor should only make statements or arguments to the grand jury and only present evidence to the grand jury which the prosecutor believes is appropriate or authorized under law for presentation to the grand jury. In appropriate cases, the prosecutor may present witnesses to summarize admissible evidence available to the prosecutor which the prosecutor believes he or she will be able to present at trial. The prosecutor should also inform the grand jurors that they have the right to hear any available witnesses, including eyewitnesses.

(b) No prosecutor should knowingly fail to disclose to the grand jury evidence which tends to negate guilt or mitigate the offense.

(c) A prosecutor should recommend that the grand jury not indict if he or she believes the evidence presented does not warrant an indictment under governing law.

(d) If the prosecutor believes that a witness is a potential defendant, the prosecutor should not seek to compel the witness's testimony before the grand jury without informing the witness that he or she may be charged and that the witness should seek independent legal advice concerning his or her rights.

(f) A prosecutor in presenting a case to a grand jury should not intentionally interfere with the independence of the grand jury, preempt a function of the grand jury, or abuse the processes of the grand jury.

http://www.americanbar.org/publicat...ion_archive/crimjust_standards_pfunc_blk.html

Or, in Florida's implementation of the ABA ethics standards:

Standard 3-3.9: Discretion in the charging decision.
(a) A prosecutor should not institute, or cause to be instituted, or permit
the continued pendency of criminal charges when the prosecutor knows
that the charges are not supported by probable cause. A prosecutor should
not institute, cause to be instituted, or permit the continued pendency of
criminal charges in the absence of sufficient admissible evidence to
support a conviction.

http://www.locatethelaw.org/linked/ethics.pdf

Nor was he interest in finding facts. Giving Wilson the opportunity of a soliloquy is not fact finding.

LOL...in case you were not aware, he is a witness as well. And yep, under the law if the Grand Jury wants to hear his side of the story they can request it. He could, like many, have refused it but he appeared without a lawyer and answered their questions.

You finished Max?

There is only one ringmaster in the circus known as the grand jury. That is the prosecutor. And unless he wants something to happen, it does not happen unless he is the most incompetent boob in history.

You wiil not disprove that because you can't.

NEXT

 

[maxparrish]

This result has not been unexpected, as the overwhelming weight of both the eye witness and forensic evidence has been entirely consistent with Officer Wilson’s narrative of self-defense, including:

- Wilson being attacked by Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson in his patrol vehicle
- a struggle over Wilson’s service pistol
- shots fired inside the vehicle (which forensic examination confirmed caused a contact gun shot wound to Brown’s right hand)
- the temporary flight of Brown upon those initial gunshots
- the return of the 292 pound Brown re-engage the much smaller officer
- the firing of additional defensive rounds as necessary to halt Brown’s violence

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/1...o-indictment-in-michael-brown-shooting//#more

There are certainly easier ways to randomly execute unarmed "gentle giants".

You do know that the contact wound was misreported and that Dorian Johnson's testimony states that no attack occurred.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...uson-documents-what-michael-browns-friend-saw

Oh and your legal link has an admitted conservative agenda. Not just bias, agenda:

Legal Insurrection now is one of the most widely cited and influential conservative websites, with hundreds of thousands of visitors per month. Our work has been highlighted by top conservative radio personalities, such as Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin, and Professor Jacobson regularly appears as a guest on radio shows across the nation.

And therefore it they point out that the sun rises in the east, we should scream bias?

 

[repoman]

A thought experiment that just popped in my head as I woke up: what would happen if after the next time a young, unarmed black man was shot by a police officer blacks would march to a rich white residential neighborhood?

 

[Bronzeage]

A thought experiment that just popped in my head as I woke up: what would happen if after the next time a young, unarmed black man was shot by a police officer blacks would march to a rich white residential neighborhood?

Sunday Bloody Sunday

 

[AthenaAwakened]

It’s Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Ferguson’s Just Did

Ferguson Cop Darren Wilson Is Just the Latest to Go Unprosecuted for a Fatal Shooting

Why It’s Impossible to Indict a Cop

Bob McCulloch’s pathetic prosecution of Darren Wilson

 

[maxparrish]

The DA seeks an indictment when he has probable cause and believes a person to be guilty. For someone who claims to support civil rights, I can't think of a more illiberal and reactionary view than the ones you just expressed. I was unable to find (or fathom) where on earth you got the benighted and legally primitive view that the fundamental goal of State prosecutors is "vigorously seeking victory" regardless of merit or justice. Just so you know, American law's ethical requirements for prosecutors is a tad more than that of the Church's Grand Inquisitor Torquemada or the Stalin's Vyshinsky:...

Nor was he interest in finding facts. Giving Wilson the opportunity of a soliloquy is not fact finding.

LOL...in case you were not aware, he is a witness as well. And yep, under the law if the Grand Jury wants to hear his side of the story they can request it. He could, like many, have refused it but he appeared without a lawyer and answered their questions.

You finished Max?

There is only one ringmaster in the circus known as the grand jury. That is the prosecutor. And unless he wants something to happen, it does not happen unless he is the most incompetent boob in history.

You wiil not disprove that because you can't.

NEXT

You mean unless the prosecutor wants to indict a ham sandwich, it does not happen? Well yes Athena, that was the point. Rather than charge someone who did not meet the standard of probable cause, he let a grand jury decide. Perhaps you have a serious point beyond your expectation that anytime a white cop shoots and kills a black man the white cop must also be charged and convicted of murder, regardless of the evidence?

If not, then all you are doing is promoting a black racialist meme. Discussions based on principled stands of law, justice, or rights are pointless. "Me hate white cops" or "me hate Negros" is not really amenable to reason - it is little more than knuckle dragging tribalism.

 

[ksen]

http://agoodcartoon.tumblr.com/post/104069930720/alittlelateforalot-agoodcartoon-way-to-be

 

[laughing dog]

32 year old Bosnian (who are white) was brutally murdered by a hispanic and a black teenager in St. Louis.
Man dies after being struck by hammers

Is Irrev. Al Sharpton going to comment on this? How about Obama? Or even the St. Louis Rams?

Suspects are in custody. And, of course, the suspects are not police officers. So the point of this is.....?

 

[ksen]

Darren Wilson resigns

"Whether officially his license is removed or unofficially, I think it would be very unlikely that he'll ever seek law enforcement again, unless it's in a private manner," former Ferguson mayor Brian Fletcher told the radio station. "He's had a chance to think about this. For everybody's sake, both the community and Darren Wilson's sake and the Brown family, I think he's made the right decision."

If Wilson did nothing wrong then how is this the right decision?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Darren Wilson resigns

"Whether officially his license is removed or unofficially, I think it would be very unlikely that he'll ever seek law enforcement again, unless it's in a private manner," former Ferguson mayor Brian Fletcher told the radio station. "He's had a chance to think about this. For everybody's sake, both the community and Darren Wilson's sake and the Brown family, I think he's made the right decision."

If Wilson did nothing wrong then how is this the right decision?

I think the claim is that his presence in the department brings undue attention and criticism to the department and the work it is trying to do. Even if he did no wrong, the perception that he did can bring negative consequences should his presence continue in his current position. I'm not saying that I believe he did no wrong, but there is merit in the argument.