Covid-19 miscellany

[ideologyhunter]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

 

[Shadowy Man]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

We have had to address the difference between personal health issues and public health issues before but it doesn’t seem to be sinking in.

 

[Toni]

All I've heard is he lied and fucked up some other things, so therefore vaccines.

Odd. What keeps being said is that he hired and appointed lots of people who would lie to help and protect him. Meaning we distrusted the entire administration, not just Florida Man.
But all you can do is reduce it to 'Orange Man Bad' to dismiss any concerns as bias.
So, probably no point sketching zny further details in, like 'Trump loyalists at the ZFDA then...' because you'll ignore those, too, framing everything as Trump running around taking the steps personally.

Meh.

My educational background is cell and molecular biology, and working in medical testing laboratories, including a major reference lab. When I heard that there were vaccines being developed, I was a bit concerned about vaccines that might be coming out of China because I don't necessarily trust the reliability of vaccines developed and manufactured there. I DO trust drug manufacturing in the US because I am quite familiar with the regulatory, approval and compliance rules and processes.

Trump would have won a bit of respect from me if he had been transparent about receiving the vaccine when he received it and even more if he allowed himself to be videoed for broadcast his vaccination. I wonder how many lives he could have saved if he had simply done that much? Instead, he flouted medical advice and still received the very best possible medical care when he became ill. He and many other republicans and right wing pundits and newscasters (or 'news'casters) have instead promoted the idea that vaccinations were unreliable, unsafe and should be avoided and were made up of dead babies and other nonsense. At the same time, most of them were vaccinated and hid that information from constituents and viewers. That's shameful and hypocritical and has certainly cost thousands of lives. I don't think it stretches the definition too much to call their actions treasonous as such disingenuous behavior surely was designed to promote their own personal interests over the welfare of the nation and its people.

Of course, their strategy has been to burden the Biden administration with a prolonged pandemic in order to win back voters in the next elections. May they rot in hell.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

That is exactly what gave us the Boeing 737-Max. It was barely different at all.

Well, if being rational and considering the probable consequences of the different potential courses of action had been what gave you the 737-max, the 737-max was the rational course of action, and it was just really bad luck what happened. I do not believe this is so (and given your arguments, that's not what you intended to say, but you misspoke). The point is that, on the basis of the available info, a Delta-adapted vaccine would make perfect sense.

There is little evidence available that suggests the vaccine isn't effective against Delta. There is almost no data indicating that breakthroughs at this point would not have occurred with the original virus or the alpha variant. You are trying to solve a problem you don't know exists.

As far as I can tell, there is pretty good evidence that it is significantly less effective than it is against the original variant, where a single dose would usually do the job.

The mindset is that when you give a particular thing to billions of people, the acceptable risk drops through the basement. The a newish vaccine shouldn't be dangerous. But "shouldn't be" does not satisfy the threshold on safety when hundreds of millions to billions of people will be taking the vaccine.

Actually, the probability that it's not dangerous when the technology is known is low enough, again given the differences in effectiveness vs. covid.

Risk is monitored via multiple aspects:

1) side effect
2) rate of side effect
3) how many people exposed to the risk

Generally, the worse the side effect, the lower the rate of that side effect. But when 3 increases, that lowers thresholds greatly.

Yes, but the new vaccine would be doing just the same. Where would the danger come from? The only difference is that a slightly difference spike protein would be used to do, well, the same thing. The risk is never zero, but it's low enough.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I've heard that the vaccine rate for health care workers is around 89%, far higher than the average population. As an aside, I just listened to an insurance exec give an interesting speech on the vaccine. Insurance companies are cheap, and they follow science. They will end the epidemic when they make their insurance rates for unvacxed employees punitive and too high to keep on staff. People will get the jab when they can't get a job or lose their insurance.

That’s a good point. To end the obesity epidemic insurance companies need to make their rates punitive for those with high BMI or who otherwise have unhealthy diets or lifestyles. Follow the science, right?

You don't understand. Companies that don't require their employees to be vaccinated will have their insurance rates dramatically increased. Once better tracing technology is in place, if someone gets COVID from a unvaxed person at a company, that company will be sued into oblivion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Risk is monitored via multiple aspects:

1) side effect
2) rate of side effect
3) how many people exposed to the risk

Generally, the worse the side effect, the lower the rate of that side effect. But when 3 increases, that lowers thresholds greatly.

Yes, but the new vaccine would be doing just the same. Where would the danger come from? The only difference is that a slightly difference spike protein would be used to do, well, the same thing. The risk is never zero, but it's low enough.

Exactly... just like the Boeing 737-Max. The changes weren't that significant. What is the danger? That is the question that has led to lots of suffering. Remember Flint, MI? The water was too corrosive. But was it safe to drink, except that wasn't the only issue. What is the danger?

 

[TSwizzle]

I've heard that the vaccine rate for health care workers is around 89%, far higher than the average population. As an aside, I just listened to an insurance exec give an interesting speech on the vaccine. Insurance companies are cheap, and they follow science. They will end the epidemic when they make their insurance rates for unvacxed employees punitive and too high to keep on staff. People will get the jab when they can't get a job or lose their insurance.

That’s a good point. To end the obesity epidemic insurance companies need to make their rates punitive for those with high BMI or who otherwise have unhealthy diets or lifestyles. Follow the science, right?

Indeed. Or increase the rates for any past time that is risky. Skiing for example. How many knuckleheads break bones on the slopes unnecessarily, taking up valuable resources at the ER ? Skate boarders, rock climbers, mountain bikers, either ban that shit or jack up their insurance so high they quit with their selfish behavior.

 

[Trausti]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

 

[Trausti]

I've heard that the vaccine rate for health care workers is around 89%, far higher than the average population. As an aside, I just listened to an insurance exec give an interesting speech on the vaccine. Insurance companies are cheap, and they follow science. They will end the epidemic when they make their insurance rates for unvacxed employees punitive and too high to keep on staff. People will get the jab when they can't get a job or lose their insurance.

That’s a good point. To end the obesity epidemic insurance companies need to make their rates punitive for those with high BMI or who otherwise have unhealthy diets or lifestyles. Follow the science, right?

You don't understand. Companies that don't require their employees to be vaccinated will have their insurance rates dramatically increased. Once better tracing technology is in place, if someone gets COVID from a unvaxed person at a company, that company will be sued into oblivion.

Sue for what? Are you also a vaccine skeptic?

 

[ideologyhunter]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

Are you serious????? By letting covid morph into variants. By paralyzing the health care system. The unvaxxed (by choice) have not a shred of consideration for the health care providers or the society.

 

[Trausti]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

Are you serious????? By letting covid morph into variants. By paralyzing the health care system. The unvaxxed (by choice) have not a shred of consideration for the health care providers or the society.

If the argument is to punish those who drive up healthcare costs, it plays equally to those who choose unhealthy lifestyles. If it’s concern about variants, then you’re chasing COVID Zero, which is an absurdity.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

Unvaccinated plague rats spread covid-19 varieties that even the vaccinated can catch. Though the vaccinated usually have milder cases of it, catching this from a stupid plague rat is not responsible from these plague rats. This is just stupid. It is a fact of life that the less vax skeptic plague rats that infest America, the better. It will be three months until I can get a booster shot.

Have you truly not been following any news about breakthrough covid-19 infections?

 

[laughing dog]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

Unvaccinated plague rats spread covid-19 varieties that even the vaccinated can catch. Though the vaccinated usually have milder cases of it, catching this from a stupid plague rat is not responsible from these plague rats. This is just stupid. It is a fact of life that the less vax skeptic plague rats that infest America, the better. It will be three months until I can get a booster shot.

In addition, a vaccinated person can spread covid. It is the height of narcissism for those who can medically tolerate a vaccine to refuse to get one because getting vaccinated or wearing mask is not just about protecting oneself, but protecting others.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Meanwhile in California, it has been mandated to start mass vaccination of school children. This should drive the plague rats of America into a foamy lipped frenzy.

 

[crazyfingers]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

My god you really have no understanding of all this do you?

 

[TSwizzle]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

My god you really have no understanding of all this do you?

So your contention is that vaccinated people that are covid positive cannot spread covid. Even if they caught the covid from a vaccinated person. Weird circular logic.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

My god you really have no understanding of all this do you?

Is someone still making that argument after we learned about the breakthrough cases? And that is ignoring all the other issues. These idiots are dragging along like an anchor for the economy... and we are being asked 'how are they effecting the vaccinated?'.

 

[TSwizzle]

Meanwhile in California, it has been mandated to start mass vaccination of school children. This should drive the plague rats of America into a foamy lipped frenzy.

And the left wing authoritarians into orgasm. There is no reason to vaccinate kids.

 

[Trausti]

So, someone else's weight problem puts others at risk of a virus?

If you are vaccinated how does an unvaccinated person put you at risk? Are you a vaccine skeptic?

My god you really have no understanding of all this do you?

The difference here is freedom. I favor it; you apparently do not. There will always be pathogens and other creepy crawlies out there. It seems to have been forgotten that this was the world before March 2020. We have vaccines that work pretty well for the new gain-of-function arrival. Should some decide not to get it, that’s their choice. The persistent fear mongering is out of proportion to reality.

 

[crazyfingers]

Meanwhile in California, it has been mandated to start mass vaccination of school children. This should drive the plague rats of America into a foamy lipped frenzy.

And the left wing authoritarians into orgasm. There is no reason to vaccinate kids.

And I'll repeat for you too. My god you really have no understanding of all this do you?