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Covid-19 miscellany

Operation Warp Speed was Trump’s greatest accomplishment. The lefties didn’t want Trump to get the credit so they did everything to tar it. But now the left gets to use the vaccine to indulge its authoritarian fantasies.

InsufferablePrickGavinNewsomOct2020 said:
California won’t allow any distribution of coronavirus vaccines in the nation’s most populous state until it is reviewed by the state’s own panel of experts, Gov. Gavin Newsom said Monday. Vaccinations for the pandemic “will move at the speed of trust,” said Newsom, a Democrat, and the state wants its own independent review no matter who wins the presidential election next month. “Of course we won’t take anyone’s word for it,” Newsom said

News


I don't know if this review panel ever did anything.

I don't know what the review panel did either.
I do know that I watched the news and stats for signs of a Trumpish foul up before I got the jab.
Tom
 
If you can't get enough qualified nurses to safely treat patients during a pandemic, get plague rats to at least take their temperatures and pulse rates while they risk killing them in their beds.

Oh how quaint, still using the "plague rats".

Contracting covid while staying in hospital has always been a problem. And not necessarily spread by unvaccinated healthcare workers but usually just by infected patients being placed in the ward.
 
Operation Warp Speed was Trump’s greatest accomplishment. The lefties didn’t want Trump to get the credit so they did everything to tar it. But now the left gets to use the vaccine to indulge its authoritarian fantasies.

InsufferablePrickGavinNewsomOct2020 said:
California won’t allow any distribution of coronavirus vaccines in the nation’s most populous state until it is reviewed by the state’s own panel of experts, Gov. Gavin Newsom said Monday. Vaccinations for the pandemic “will move at the speed of trust,” said Newsom, a Democrat, and the state wants its own independent review no matter who wins the presidential election next month. “Of course we won’t take anyone’s word for it,” Newsom said

News


I don't know if this review panel ever did anything.

When Trump was in office there was every reason to believe that whatever he or a department head said was a lie.

My wife who was desperately looking forward to there being a vaccine still said she would not take it until a reliable government such as Canada or Germany approved it. There is nothing anti-vax about not trusting what the Trump government said at the time. It was 4 years of seeing that Trump and his chiefs lied and lied and lied.
 
If you can't get enough qualified nurses to safely treat patients during a pandemic, get plague rats to at least take their temperatures and pulse rates while they risk killing them in their beds.

Oh how quaint, still using the "plague rats".

Contracting covid while staying in hospital has always been a problem. And not necessarily spread by unvaccinated healthcare workers but usually just by infected patients being placed in the ward.

I would like to see that data.
 
News


I don't know if this review panel ever did anything.

When Trump was in office there was every reason to believe that whatever he or a department head said was a lie.

My wife who was desperately looking forward to there being a vaccine still said she would not take it until a reliable government such as Canada or Germany approved it. There is nothing anti-vax about not trusting what the Trump government said at the time. It was 4 years of seeing that Trump and his chiefs lied and lied and lied.
We were concerned. We had every right to be concerned. When the data came out, we were fine with it... and got vaccinated. We ain't listening to a failed MMA athlete who took anti-parasite medication.
 
Only if vaccinated people are having these brain issues at significant rates. Haven't heard that they are.

Nasal vaccines and vaccines that are multi protein and not just the spike protein?

And for fuck's sake a delta update booster!

It would be funny if Africa and other currently non vaxxed places got nasal and multiprotein vaccines and killed transmission way faster than us, even our vaxxed people.

Having more effective vaccines is better, but the ones we have are very good already. The problem is uptake in some countries and availability in others.

You want the pandemic over fast and not just spend your time bitching at Trumptards, Let alone angel minorities here in the US not getting vaxxed.

But the anti-vaxxers, whatever motivation, are the problem in the US though. The best way out of the pandemic is getting everyone vaccinated who can be. Earlier this year, we were way ahead of almost every nation in vaccination rates, but now we're falling behind several countries, even Australia is catching up. Vaccine denialsm is our main problem, that's the simple fact.

Vaccinated people are sometimes still getting sick with Covid, but not so very or fatally sick--however, are their brains also apparently being affected by the sickness?
 
If you can't get enough qualified nurses to safely treat patients during a pandemic, get plague rats to at least take their temperatures and pulse rates while they risk killing them in their beds.

In defense of Trausti's defense of free-dumb, I gotta ask; is there evidence that COVID transmitted to a patient by a vaccinated plague rat is any less severe than COVID transmitted by an un-vaccinated plague rat?
I have seen it implied that the viral load might be less, but haven't seen or heard of any studies that reached that definitive conclusion.
(If I were a conservo, I would take the fact that I haven't seen such a thing as strong evidence that no such thing exists. But here, I am really asking the question - does it exist?)

The viral load for a vaccinated person with Covid is typically markedly less than for an unvaccinated person, so the probability of the vaccinated person transmitting the virus to another person (ceteris paribus) is much lower. However, the severity of the disease if contracted is a function of the vaccination status of the new host.

The Covid vaccine does a very good (but not perfect) job of preventing severe disease in vaccinated individuals; And a fair job in reducing the rate of transmission (Re) between vaccinated hosts and the susceptible community.

From an epidemiological perspective, any reduction in Re is a good thing; Re is simply the number of people who, on average, are infected by the disease by each infectious person. Where an unprotected population is exposed to Covid delta by an unvaccinated host:

Re = R0 = between 6 and 8

The objective is to get Re < 1, as at that point the disease ceases to propagate in the community.

Vaccination reduces Re; Wearing masks reduces Re; Distancing reduces Re; Quarantines and isolation (even for oy a part of the infectious period) reduces Re.

And the effect on Re of various measures accumulates. With vaccination alone, you need 1-(1/Re) of the population to be vaccinated in order to prevent spread, so for an R0 of 8, you need 7/8 (87.5%) of the vector population to have the jab. By also applying other measures, such as those listed above, you can reduce Re below 1 with a smaller vaccination takeup amongst the vector population.

In the case of Covid, the vector population is the entire population, and may include persons ineligible for the vaccine; For example, in Australia vaccination is only approved for people 16 years of age and above, so to achieve an 87.5% vaccination rate would be impossible, as around 14% of Australians are currently too young to vaccinate. Obviously it would therefore be necessary to also vaccinate some of this age cohort to prevent outbreaks if all other restrictions were removed.

Effective use of non-vaccination measures alongside widespread vaccination will likely be the way in which Covid is defeated; The higher the vaccination rate in a population, the fewer and less stringent those additional measures will need to be.

And that's why, as the covidiots keep asking, "If the vaccines work, why are they saying we still need to wear masks?"
 
I'm not incurious at all nor, I suspect, are media or politicians. I worked in health care for years. Knew a few people who SWORE that flu shots gave them the flu, although that is impossible.

The fact is that not everyone in health care is really that bright. That's the truth, and yes, I'm including physicians. Health care workers are human beings and some small percentage of them are, unfortunately, inclined to believe whatever conspiracy theory out there is presented to them if it seems to confirm their own biases and fears.

I dunno. My wife works healthcare, is vaxed. She tried to persuade me not to based her patients who got sick after the jab. Did it anyway. But your assumption that people who think differently than you are stupid says more about you than them.

Some of the health-care workers who are refusing are doing so on religious grounds in that some? all? of the vaccines involved human fetal cells somewhae along the line of their develoopment/ testing/ composition.
 
If you can't get enough qualified nurses to safely treat patients during a pandemic, get plague rats to at least take their temperatures and pulse rates while they risk killing them in their beds.

In defense of Trausti's defense of free-dumb, I gotta ask; is there evidence that COVID transmitted to a patient by a vaccinated plague rat is any less severe than COVID transmitted by an un-vaccinated plague rat?
I have seen it implied that the viral load might be less, but haven't seen or heard of any studies that reached that definitive conclusion.
(If I were a conservo, I would take the fact that I haven't seen such a thing as strong evidence that no such thing exists. But here, I am really asking the question - does it exist?)

The viral load for a vaccinated person with Covid is typically markedly less than for an unvaccinated person, so the probability of the vaccinated person transmitting the virus to another person (ceteris paribus) is much lower. However, the severity of the disease if contracted is a function of the vaccination status of the new host.

The Covid vaccine does a very good (but not perfect) job of preventing severe disease in vaccinated individuals; And a fair job in reducing the rate of transmission (Re) between vaccinated hosts and the susceptible community.

From an epidemiological perspective, any reduction in Re is a good thing; Re is simply the number of people who, on average, are infected by the disease by each infectious person. Where an unprotected population is exposed to Covid delta by an unvaccinated host:

Re = R0 = between 6 and 8

The objective is to get Re < 1, as at that point the disease ceases to propagate in the community.

Vaccination reduces Re; Wearing masks reduces Re; Distancing reduces Re; Quarantines and isolation (even for oy a part of the infectious period) reduces Re.

And the effect on Re of various measures accumulates. With vaccination alone, you need 1-(1/Re) of the population to be vaccinated in order to prevent spread, so for an R0 of 8, you need 7/8 (87.5%) of the vector population to have the jab. By also applying other measures, such as those listed above, you can reduce Re below 1 with a smaller vaccination takeup amongst the vector population.

In the case of Covid, the vector population is the entire population, and may include persons ineligible for the vaccine; For example, in Australia vaccination is only approved for people 16 years of age and above, so to achieve an 87.5% vaccination rate would be impossible, as around 14% of Australians are currently too young to vaccinate. Obviously it would therefore be necessary to also vaccinate some of this age cohort to prevent outbreaks if all other restrictions were removed.

Effective use of non-vaccination measures alongside widespread vaccination will likely be the way in which Covid is defeated; The higher the vaccination rate in a population, the fewer and less stringent those additional measures will need to be.

And that's why, as the covidiots keep asking, "If the vaccines work, why are they saying we still need to wear masks?"

Right. So it’s a noxious cocktail of liberty- killing restrictions being selectively imposed on innocent, well intended, dedicated workers. No telling which ingredient does exactly what, just a general assumption of cumulative effects.
/conservopologist
 
Opinion | The pandemic didn’t have to be politicized. One party is to blame for it. - The Washington Post
This politicization is being shaped not just by the right, but by the Trumpian political style of performative belligerence — in other words, being a jerk in the loudest and most public way you can. After watching so many videos of Donald Trump fans screaming at public officials over masks, no one is surprised when, after New York creates an indoor vaccination mandate, a huge group storms a food court, leading gleeful cheers of “F--- Joe Biden!” and “Trump won!”

All while hospitals in one place after another are overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid patients.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Your examples do not make the point you think.

A lot of us were concerned with His Flatulence pushing the FDA into an improper approval and would have been worried about any vaccine under his watch. However, that's not what happened. It was not approved until after the election and also multiple foreign governments have also approved it. The latter is plenty adequate for me.
 
Which some are now even denying is happening, or if forced to admit a hospital is overwhelmed it is because of staff shortage due to vaccine mandates.

Is no one else curious why the media and politicians are so incurious on why so many healthcare providers are refusing the vax? 2020: Healthcare workers are heroes. 2021: You're fired.

There's a clear pattern--the higher the level of their medical training the more acceptance of the vaccine. That says a lot to me.

What we have is a bunch of idiots letting themselves get brainwashed by the Fox/OAN/Newsmax group.
 
Actually it does, but let's not let things like that get in the way.
You mean like the whistleblowers that didn't exist while Trump was actively trying to get Congress and the VP to overthrow the election?
Or did Trump threaten them all and they all stayed silent? This is the same kind of lunacy we see with the people who believe the moon landing was a hoax. You just can't expect thousands of people to keep their mouth shut.
What is your point? There was concern about Trump fucking up the vaccine, much like he managed to fuck up most other things he touched. The asshole lied his ass off about the entire pandemic.

However, that the vaccines went through the large sized stage 3 trial (as well as the ones before it) and was shown to be effective and safe would likely explain why they people with reservations (mostly Democrats) were able to accept the approval and GOT VACCINATED! Meanwhile, a large number of conservatives refuse it. And when Vermont worked on making certain underserved and hesitant minority populations got immunized, they were attacked by the right wing.

You are pissing about a problem that doesn't exist.

You Americans seem to assume that the USA is all that matters--Pfizer and Moderna were developing, in a competitive market, vaccinations for the rest of the world, vaccinations that wouldn't have been or approved by other countries if they were dodgy. Therefore the multinational companies had a prime incentive not to bend to the will of an American politician whom most other political leaders in the world regarded as supernally/ infernally dodgy.
 
If you can't get enough qualified nurses to safely treat patients during a pandemic, get plague rats to at least take their temperatures and pulse rates while they risk killing them in their beds.

Oh how quaint, still using the "plague rats".

Contracting covid while staying in hospital has always been a problem. And not necessarily spread by unvaccinated healthcare workers but usually just by infected patients being placed in the ward.

how about, parallel with "Typhoid Mary" , "Covid Don"?
 
Some of the health-care workers who are refusing are doing so on religious grounds in that soem? all? of the vaccines involved human fetal cells somewhae along the line of their develoopment/ testing/ composition.

If you're going to reject them on religious grounds you need to reject most drugs. Testing on fetal cell lines is a normal part of drug development these days.
 
Some of the health-care workers who are refusing are doing so on religious grounds in that soem? all? of the vaccines involved human fetal cells somewhae along the line of their develoopment/ testing/ composition.

If you're going to reject them on religious grounds you need to reject most drugs. Testing on fetal cell lines is a normal part of drug development these days.

From https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstec...ums-to-get-religious-vaccine-exemption/?amp=1

A hospital system in Arkansas is making it a bit more difficult for staff to receive a religious exemption from its COVID-19 vaccine mandate. The hospital is now requiring staff to also swear off extremely common medicines, such as Tylenol, Tums, and even Preparation H, to get the exemption.

The move was prompted when Conway Regional Health System noted an unusual uptick in vaccine exemption requests that cited the use of fetal cell lines in the development and testing of the vaccines.
 
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Actually it does, but let's not let things like that get in the way.
You mean like the whistleblowers that didn't exist while Trump was actively trying to get Congress and the VP to overthrow the election?
Or did Trump threaten them all and they all stayed silent? This is the same kind of lunacy we see with the people who believe the moon landing was a hoax. You just can't expect thousands of people to keep their mouth shut.
What is your point? There was concern about Trump fucking up the vaccine, much like he managed to fuck up most other things he touched. The asshole lied his ass off about the entire pandemic.

However, that the vaccines went through the large sized stage 3 trial (as well as the ones before it) and was shown to be effective and safe would likely explain why they people with reservations (mostly Democrats) were able to accept the approval and GOT VACCINATED! Meanwhile, a large number of conservatives refuse it. And when Vermont worked on making certain underserved and hesitant minority populations got immunized, they were attacked by the right wing.

You are pissing about a problem that doesn't exist.

And what are the plausible, scenarios by which he could/would have fucked up a vaccine? Just walk me through one. All I've heard is he lied and fucked up some other things, so therefore vaccines. Sounds to me like this is just general TDS, without any detailed critical thought involved. I'm genuinely curious how a vaccine could be developed and tested by multiple companies using thousands of reputable scientists, but somehow there is a process by which Trump and/or his cronies would be able to secretly, I don't know...sabatoge it, modify it, make it dangerous for some weird reason? Help me out here...I'm drawing a blank. And somehow, he was doing this all behind Dr. Fauci's back. :confused:
 
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
(snipped: lots of petty sniping against Robert Reich, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, Andrew Cuomo, Bernie Sanders, Joy-Ann Reid, and Rachel Maddow)
They opposed what seemed like Trump's recklessness, and the Trump Administration gave very little reason to believe that it would pursue a careful policy. This is from Trump dismissing the virus as a non-issue and supporting worthless "treatments" for it.

But once the vaccines were developed and their safety record became evident, they endorsed those vaccines.

I agree with both stances.

I don’t think even you believe that partisan claptrap.
 
Which some are now even denying is happening, or if forced to admit a hospital is overwhelmed it is because of staff shortage due to vaccine mandates.

Is no one else curious why the media and politicians are so incurious on why so many healthcare providers are refusing the vax? 2020: Healthcare workers are heroes. 2021: You're fired.

I've heard that the vaccine rate for health care workers is around 89%, far higher than the average population. As an aside, I just listened to an insurance exec give an interesting speech on the vaccine. Insurance companies are cheap, and they follow science. They will end the epidemic when they make their insurance rates for unvacxed employees punitive and too high to keep on staff. People will get the jab when they can't get a job or lose their insurance.
 
All I've heard is he lied and fucked up some other things, so therefore vaccines.
Odd. What keeps being said is that he hired and appointed lots of people who would lie to help and protect him. Meaning we distrusted the entire administration, not just Florida Man.
But all you can do is reduce it to 'Orange Man Bad' to dismiss any concerns as bias.
So, probably no point sketching zny further details in, like 'Trump loyalists at the ZFDA then...' because you'll ignore those, too, framing everything as Trump running around taking the steps personally.

Meh.
 
Which some are now even denying is happening, or if forced to admit a hospital is overwhelmed it is because of staff shortage due to vaccine mandates.

Is no one else curious why the media and politicians are so incurious on why so many healthcare providers are refusing the vax? 2020: Healthcare workers are heroes. 2021: You're fired.

I've heard that the vaccine rate for health care workers is around 89%, far higher than the average population. As an aside, I just listened to an insurance exec give an interesting speech on the vaccine. Insurance companies are cheap, and they follow science. They will end the epidemic when they make their insurance rates for unvacxed employees punitive and too high to keep on staff. People will get the jab when they can't get a job or lose their insurance.

That’s a good point. To end the obesity epidemic insurance companies need to make their rates punitive for those with high BMI or who otherwise have unhealthy diets or lifestyles. Follow the science, right?
 
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