Discipline for children

[laughing dog]

Maybe I missed where laughing dog stated so, but could you quote where he said verbal and/or psychological abuse was an effective and less harmful method of discipline?

In regard to the snippet you've chosen here, I do not refer to mental or psychological abuse at all.

No, but you did write in response to one of my posts "Conversely, some non-physical discipline, such as yelling, name-calling, and other verbal and mental abuse, ". No one that I know considers yelling or name-calling or other verbal and mental abuse forms of disciplining children.

 

[Bronzeage]

For a person that likes widening the definitions of words, not considering spanking to be hitting is out of character.

In my life, I have hit only two women. It's a long story. However I have spanks quite a few. No one was ever confused about the difference.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I suppose you should ask The AntiChris. It was he who introduced that concept, not I.

not considering spanking to be hitting is out of character.

You're baiting up the wrong tree.

Go back and look, prior to tossing around such goading remarks, please. I have not made the argument that you're accusing me of. Spanking is a very specific and small subset of the actions that fall under the very broad definition of hitting. Much as ballet is a very specific and small subset of actions that fall under the very broad definition of dance. It is true that spanking is one very specific form of hitting. It is, however, materially incorrect and misleading to conflate all hitting with spanking.

*conflate*

Now lets get one thing straight. While it is true that molestation is one very specific form of sexual assault. It is, however, materially incorrect and misleading to conflate all sexual assault with molestation.

It is misleading to attempt to characterize hitting as spanking in a way that makes it seem as if all forms of hitting could reasonably be equated to spanking. It is especially misleading, to attempt to conflate spanking with beating, punching, backhanding etc.

I'm sorry, but can you explain why slapping someone hard on the butt is different than slapping someone hard in the face?

In this thread, the very specific action of controlled spanking on the rear with an open bare hand has repeatedly been misconstrued as being synonymous with backhanding across the face, beating with a belt or spoon, and an incredibly wide variety of actions that leave marks and bruises, and that every participant in this thread would recognize as abusive.

"Controlled spanking"? IE, someone isn't mad, they are just hurting their child because the child deserves it, not because the parent is mad. So why isn't a slap on the face in a controlled situation not as workable? Because you can more easily leave a mark that others can see?

This misconstruction has been done as part and parcel of insisting that it is all "hitting". All of those are "hitting", and spanking is also "hitting", therefore they must be the same.

It is hitting. It isn't equivalent to beating down you child, but it is still hitting. It is still physically hurting.

 

[The AntiChris]

I allowed myself to be distracted by you errant comment early on and you've now run with it. So I will reiterate once again: I specified "Physical contacts in discipline".

More specifically you said the claim was that "all physical contacts in discipline are abusive".

You additionally took a sideways step and insisted that I was conflating "physical restraint" and "punishment" as synonymous, when I've done no such thing.

What you've done is conflate discipline and punishment (the UN statement only talks about physical punishment). Punishment is a subset of discipline. In other words, all punishment is a form of discipline but not all discipline is punishment.

The UN statement which talks only about physical punishment does not support your claim about "all physical contacts in discipline".

 

[fromderinside]

Telling your child to go to their room to think about what they did wrong can not be interpreted by anyone reasonably (well maybe except Beatniks) as abuse.

Wrong generation. Its flower children, like me, who might think pointing children to their room is abuse. Beatniks, anarchists and communists and one worlders who populated coffee houses as poets and tract readers in NY in the late 40s and early 50s were actually responsible, along with WWII, for the the rise of the Hell's Angels and the Pagans.

 

[fromderinside]

More specifically you said the claim was that "all physical contacts in discipline are abusive".

You additionally took a sideways step and insisted that I was conflating "physical restraint" and "punishment" as synonymous, when I've done no such thing.

What you've done is conflate discipline and punishment (the UN statement only talks about physical punishment). Punishment is a subset of discipline. In other words, all punishment is a form of discipline but not all discipline is punishment.

The UN statement which talks only about physical punishment does not support your claim about "all physical contacts in discipline".

tickle your ego with a feather, er, thesaurus: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/punishment

 

[The AntiChris]

More specifically you said the claim was that "all physical contacts in discipline are abusive".

What you've done is conflate discipline and punishment (the UN statement only talks about physical punishment). Punishment is a subset of discipline. In other words, all punishment is a form of discipline but not all discipline is punishment.

The UN statement which talks only about physical punishment does not support your claim about "all physical contacts in discipline".

tickle your ego with a feather, er, thesaurus: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/punishment

What's your argument?

Do you think the list in your link proves something? If so, spell it out - I'd be interested to see your reasoning (without an explanation it's impossible for me to respond without risking misrepresenting your argument).

 

[fromderinside]

tickle your ego with a feather, er, thesaurus: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/punishment

What's your argument?

Do you think the list in your link proves something? If so, spell it out - I'd be interested to see your reasoning (without an explanation it's impossible for me to respond without risking misrepresenting your argument).

Clue: synonym. One can be used for the other and stuff like that. Kinda topples dependencies you are trying to argue.

 

[Emily Lake]

In regard to the snippet you've chosen here, I do not refer to mental or psychological abuse at all.

No, but you did write in response to one of my posts "Conversely, some non-physical discipline, such as yelling, name-calling, and other verbal and mental abuse, ". No one that I know considers yelling or name-calling or other verbal and mental abuse forms of disciplining children.

Are you and Jimmy Higgins the same person?

 

[Emily Lake]

I'm sorry, but can you explain why slapping someone hard on the butt is different than slapping someone hard in the face?

I'm sorry, but can you explain why holding someone's hand is different than holding someone's penis?
I'm sorry, but can you explain why affectionately squeezing someone's shoulder is different than affectionately squeezing someone's boob?
I'm sorry, but can you explain why forcing a child to stay in their room is different from forcing someone to stay in your room?

Hmm... It's just so darned difficult to figure these things out.

 

[laughing dog]

No, but you did write in response to one of my posts "Conversely, some non-physical discipline, such as yelling, name-calling, and other verbal and mental abuse, ". No one that I know considers yelling or name-calling or other verbal and mental abuse forms of disciplining children.

Are you and Jimmy Higgins the same person?

No. Can you possibly actually address the plain content of a post?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm sorry, but can you explain why slapping someone hard on the butt is different than slapping someone hard in the face?

I'm sorry, but can you explain why holding someone's hand is different than holding someone's penis?

One is an external end of a limb, there is other a sexual organ.

I'm sorry, but can you explain why affectionately squeezing someone's shoulder is different than affectionately squeezing someone's boob?

Either can open you to sexual harassment charges.

I'm sorry, but can you explain why forcing a child to stay in their room is different from forcing someone to stay in your room?

One is trying to teach the child that what they did was wrong and the other is kidnapping?

 

[The AntiChris]

What's your argument?

Do you think the list in your link proves something? If so, spell it out - I'd be interested to see your reasoning (without an explanation it's impossible for me to respond without risking misrepresenting your argument).

Clue: synonym. One can be used for the other and stuff like that. Kinda topples dependencies you are trying to argue.

Ok. The very first word on the on the list you provide is "abuse".

Are you now agreeing that "punishment" is a synonym for "abuse"?

Clue: You don't know how to use a thesaurus.

 

[Bomb#20]

Personally, I think that the UN is off their rocker with that definition anyway. The fact that they're defining ANY physical punishment that causes ANY degree of discomfort to be abuse is frankly asinine. Under that definition, then physical restraint used as punishment that causes mild discomfort constitutes abuse.

Speak about off the rocker. What in the heck is a "physical restraint" method of punishment?

You didn't see The Madness of King George?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Speak about off the rocker. What in the heck is a "physical restraint" method of punishment?

You didn't see The Madness of King George?

I should have added "...that wouldn't be considered abuse?"

 

[fromderinside]

Clue: synonym. One can be used for the other and stuff like that. Kinda topples dependencies you are trying to argue.

Ok. The very first word on the on the list you provide is "abuse".

Are you now agreeing that "punishment" is a synonym for "abuse"?

Clue: You don't know how to use a thesaurus.

Yes.

Clue: You haven't got one.

 

[The AntiChris]

Ok. The very first word on the on the list you provide is "abuse".

Are you now agreeing that "punishment" is a synonym for "abuse"?

Yes.

That's fine. I clearly misunderstood your position (I mistakenly thought you were arguing against the view that the physical (corporal) punishment of children was 'abuse') .

 

[Emily Lake]

I'm sorry, but can you explain why slapping someone hard on the butt is different than slapping someone hard in the face?

I'm sorry, but can you explain why forcing a child to stay in their room is different from forcing someone to stay in your room?

One is trying to teach the child that what they did was wrong and the other is kidnapping?

You're very, very close to answering your own question here. Why don't you think on it just a little bit longer?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm sorry, but can you explain why slapping someone hard on the butt is different than slapping someone hard in the face?

I'm sorry, but can you explain why forcing a child to stay in their room is different from forcing someone to stay in your room?

One is trying to teach the child that what they did was wrong and the other is kidnapping?

You're very, very close to answering your own question here. Why don't you think on it just a little bit longer?

The point of spanking is to cause pain. The rump is preferred because you won't leave a visible mark for others to see.

So the difference between spanking a rump and slapping a face is to be able to physically hurt your child without anyone being able to tell.

 

[Emily Lake]

I'm sorry, but can you explain why slapping someone hard on the butt is different than slapping someone hard in the face?

I'm sorry, but can you explain why forcing a child to stay in their room is different from forcing someone to stay in your room?

One is trying to teach the child that what they did was wrong and the other is kidnapping?

You're very, very close to answering your own question here. Why don't you think on it just a little bit longer?

The point of spanking is to cause pain. The rump is preferred because you won't leave a visible mark for others to see.

So the difference between spanking a rump and slapping a face is to be able to physically hurt your child without anyone being able to tell.

The point of forcing a child to stay in their room is to cause unhappiness and mental pain by depriving them of freedom. Their room is preferred so that other people don't know they're being deprived of their freedom and being made to suffer mental pain. So the difference between forcing a child to stay in their room and forcing them to stay in someone else's room is being able to deprive them of their freedom and cause them mental pain without any one else knowing about it.