Police response to N.J. mall fight sparks outrage after Black teen cuffed as white teen watches

[Gospel]

Thread title could be changed to "Not resisting while black" and be just as relevant.

 

[Metaphor]

Can you point out the point---any point--at which Husain was any kind of threat?

I was not talking about Husain. I was talking about Franco. The female cop was attending to Franco. As soon as he was on the couch, he was co-operative.

I mean, he was a better fighter than Franco, despite being younger and smaller but I don't recall him offering even a fraction of a second's worth of resistance any more than did Franco.

Husain continued to struggle when he was being grappled by the male cop. I don't know what Husain was thinking in the heat of the moment; it's possible he thought Franco was still on top of him and may not have been aware that Franco had been pulled off and the cop was on top of him. Some of the video footage is obscured by a boy sitting in between the camera and the male cop/Husain and so it is difficult to tell when Husain stopped resisting.

 

[Metaphor]

You know, I don't deliberately misrepresent you or anyone else. If I have misunderstood your posts, you could clarify what you meant instead of writing endless that's not what I said posts and posts about people misrepresenting you.

It is difficult for me to 'clarify' something that you have manufactured from whole cloth. You made multiple misrepresentations of my position on this thread, and when I pointed them out, you remained silent. You did not acknowledge they were misrepresentations let alone apologise.

Some of your misrepresentations are not consistent with being confused by unclear writing. For example, your repeated invocations of genital inspections when I talk about males and females cannot possibly be linked to anything I've said. Yet you've done it before and you'll, no doubt, do it again.

 

[ZiprHead]

I was not talking about Husain. I was talking about Franco. The female cop was attending to Franco. As soon as he was on the couch, he was co-operative.

And suspects never change their minds about being cooperative.

 

[Metaphor]

There goes that word "co-operative" again. Well, I guess the police were both cooperative about sending the (apparently) white kid on his way while detaining the black one.

I don't know what happened after the video ends. It is my understanding both boys remained there for about half an hour.

 

[Metaphor]

And suspects never change their minds about being cooperative.

It seems to me that no action the female cop could have taken would please anybody on the thread. She was praised for not being rough with Franco and for not cuffing him. Now you are hinting that she was foolish not to have cuffed him.

 

[laughing dog]

Utter nonsense. Of course if one child was cuffed, the other one could have cuffed as well. In fact, if that had happened, I suspect there would have been no OP about this.

The male cop did not control the female cop with telepathy or vice versa. Cops don't have a hive mind. And how the suspects were treated was at least partly influenced by which cop was dealing with them and how co-operative they were.

Are you seriously arguing the one police officer paid no attention to what their partner was doing, and at some point was unable to communicate with that person?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Things are spectra. Cooperation is no different, residing on a continuum. One person might argue a suspect suddenly standing up might be moving toward a gun or simply not cooperating to the same degree as someone sitting. Let"s try a different word: compliant. The female officer said "Stay put" after putting on the couch. The act of standing up excitably moving feet and arms all off the couch seems non-compliant with implied instruction to stay on the couch.

 

[TomC]

that is why she is just as wrong as her partner is in how Husain was treated. What do you think we are talking about?

This is kinda the point I was trying to make.
What those few seconds of blurry video demonstrated, to me, was appropriate response by one cop and serious overreaction by the other.
It may well have been motivated by racism, but the video doesn't demonstrate that.

More damning, IMHO, is having arrested the black one and not the white one. Now, that's being walked back to "detained". I have a long and checkered past, I have personal experience with being arrested and also detained. They're not the same thing. But that wouldn't be a matter of confusion in the midst of chaos. That would be a deliberate choice made by both cops.
But it's not covered by the video, it's somewhere between hearsay and speculation.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

Metaphor, this is not only about how the police engaged the teens it's also about them letting one teen go and detaining the other.

What article have you read that discusses what happens after the video ended?

 

[Metaphor]

Things are spectra. Cooperation is no different, residing on a continuum. One person might argue a suspect suddenly standing up might be moving toward a gun or simply not cooperating to the same degree as someone sitting. Let"s try a different word: compliant. The female officer said "Stay put" after putting on the couch. The act of standing up excitably moving feet and arms all off the couch seems non-compliant with implied instruction to stay on the couch.

So, should the female officer have rushed back and cuffed him? Or should she have cuffed him in the first place, when he was sitting down? Was the female cop too kind to Franco?

 

[Toni]

You know, I don't deliberately misrepresent you or anyone else. If I have misunderstood your posts, you could clarify what you meant instead of writing endless that's not what I said posts and posts about people misrepresenting you.

It is difficult for me to 'clarify' something that you have manufactured from whole cloth. You made multiple misrepresentations of my position on this thread, and when I pointed them out, you remained silent. You did not acknowledge they were misrepresentations let alone apologise.

Some of your misrepresentations are not consistent with being confused by unclear writing. For example, your repeated invocations of genital inspections when I talk about males and females cannot possibly be linked to anything I've said. Yet you've done it before and you'll, no doubt, do it again.

I explained: You seem to have a fixation on someone not being male if they were not born with a penis and testicles and XY chromosomes and that no one is actually female unless they were born with ovaries and external female genitalia and XX chromosomes. THAT is what I was referring to and that is what I explained when you freaked out because I mentioned genitals.

 

[Metaphor]

Are you seriously arguing the one police officer paid no attention to what their partner was doing, and at some point was unable to communicate with that person?

I'm seriously arguing that cops are not a hive mind, and that just because one cop was cuffing his suspect does not mean that the other cop has to cuff hers. Cops, it may surprise you to learn, have different temperaments and personalities and make different judgments, even when they're both white!

 

[laughing dog]

Are you seriously arguing the one police officer paid no attention to what their partner was doing, and at some point was unable to communicate with that person?

I'm seriously arguing that cops are not a hive mind, and that just because one cop was cuffing his suspect does not mean that the other cop has to cuff hers. Cops, it may surprise you to learn, have different temperaments and personalities and make different judgments, even when they're both white!

Hive mind is both irrelevant and a hand-waved assertion (the "blue wall" is evidence of a hive mind). So you are arguing that these officers were aware of the other's mind and actions, and deliberately agreed to cuff one suspect and not the other.

 

[Metaphor]

I explained: You seem to have a fixation on someone not being male if they were not born with a penis and testicles and XY chromosomes and that no one is actually female unless they were born with ovaries and external female genitalia and XX chromosomes. THAT is what I was referring to and that is what I explained when you freaked out because I mentioned genitals.

I have explained, repeatedly, to your deaf and closed ears and closed mind, what a human male is. Your above statement is a false representation of what I have said a human male is, and I have told you this already, more than once, including on this thread but you will not desist.

Males are the sex that is formed around producing small, motile gametes. Females are the sex that is formed around producing large, sessile gametes. These are my definitions of male and female. Even if you think my definitions are wrong, you have no right to make up definitions of male and female and then ascribe them to me. Stop doing it. Everybody can see you.

 

[Metaphor]

Are you seriously arguing the one police officer paid no attention to what their partner was doing, and at some point was unable to communicate with that person?

I'm seriously arguing that cops are not a hive mind, and that just because one cop was cuffing his suspect does not mean that the other cop has to cuff hers. Cops, it may surprise you to learn, have different temperaments and personalities and make different judgments, even when they're both white!

Hive mind is both irrelevant and a hand-waved assertion (the "blue wall" is evidence of a hive mind). So you are arguing that these officers were aware of the other's mind and actions, and deliberately agreed to cuff one suspect and not the other.

No.

 

[Politesse]

Well, I just read a long thread and learned nothing of value... again...

 

[TomC]

So you are arguing that these officers were aware of the other's mind and actions, and deliberately agreed to cuff one suspect and not the other.

No.
Officers are trained to back up their partner. That's what she did.
Regardless of what she was thinking, that wasn't the time for a "You shouldn't do this. We're all gonna regret it." lecture.
Tom

 

[TomC]

And suspects never change their minds about being cooperative.

It seems to me that no action the female cop could have taken would please anybody on the thread. She was praised for not being rough with Franco and for not cuffing him. Now you are hinting that she was foolish not to have cuffed him.

Better if she had cuffed him, from the optics stand point.
But frankly, everything I saw in the video makes her look competent(as opposed to her dufous male partner). Which makes questions about her capabilities look so foolish to me.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

And suspects never change their minds about being cooperative.

It seems to me that no action the female cop could have taken would please anybody on the thread. She was praised for not being rough with Franco and for not cuffing him. Now you are hinting that she was foolish not to have cuffed him.

Better if she had cuffed him, from the optics stand point.
But frankly, everything I saw in the video makes her look competent(as opposed to her dufous male partner). Which makes questions about her capabilities look so foolish to me.
Tom

I don't know if this has been brought up with regard to the female cop, but perhaps the "white" (not really) kid, has the "you never hit a woman" philosophy ingrained in him, like most boys and men do. If it had been the male cop, he may have felt more leeway to resist.