Bidengate Breaks... err... down

[TSwizzle]

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation. Or that the laptop never existed in the first place. You have focused on whether the reason.com article I quoted faithfully relayed the details of the NYT article, which it does seem they could have done a better job

The legacy media went to great lengths to paint this tawdry episode as some sort of Russian disinformation campaign. Same with the dodgy dossier that lunatic Schiff keeps banging on about. It appeals some a few conspiracy theorists on here I suppose. They’ll continue to make up ever more elaborate excuses to dismiss it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are there any emails from Hunter saying he would actually do what Burisma wanted him to do?

And how do we know these emails are legitimate? These computers passed through many hands before getting to the FBI.

Exactly. I find the providence of the laptop sorely lacking. I strongly suspect most of the e-mails are legitimate but given the providence I consider it likely that things have been tampered with. Thus it means nothing--and showing that much of it is true means nothing, it could easily be someone hacked his system, got his old e-mails and then changed things a bit.

Don't go looking for suspicious stuff on that hard drive, address the chain of custody first!

 

[thebeave]

Are there any emails from Hunter saying he would actually do what Burisma wanted him to do?

And how do we know these emails are legitimate? These computers passed through many hands before getting to the FBI.

Exactly. I find the providence of the laptop sorely lacking. I strongly suspect most of the e-mails are legitimate but given the providence I consider it likely that things have been tampered with. Thus it means nothing--and showing that much of it is true means nothing, it could easily be someone hacked his system, got his old e-mails and then changed things a bit.

Don't go looking for suspicious stuff on that hard drive, address the chain of custody first!

How would the Russians do all that, though? Are they logging into his laptop from Russia, or are the Russian hackers here in the US somehow given access to it? Or did they take the laptop to Russia? Wouldn't a competent computer forensics team be able to tell if the emails or other information were altered?

 

[blastula]

You seem to be missing the point, or perhaps I wasn't quite clear enough. The issue at hand is that the NYT has essentially now admitted that the emails did come from Hunter Biden's laptop that was left in a Delaware repair shop, and that those emails were authenticated. Here is cut-and-paste what the NYT said in their article:

Admitted? Talk about "manipulation of the news." Admitted" implies they knew all along. They never knew because they had no way to confirm it at the time.

Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.

And now they have confirmation. How malicious of them to earlier not claim to know something they didn't.

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation.

This link is from Oct. 22, 2020.

What We Know and Don’t About Hunter Biden and a Laptop - The New York Times.

No concrete evidence has emerged that the laptop contains Russian disinformation.

With pressure mounting on the F.B.I. to respond to questions from Congress about the laptop, the bureau wrote to one of the president’s staunchest allies in Congress, Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, suggesting that it had not found any Russian disinformation on the laptop.

Enjoy your crow.

 

[Harry Bosch]

You seem to be missing the point, or perhaps I wasn't quite clear enough. The issue at hand is that the NYT has essentially now admitted that the emails did come from Hunter Biden's laptop that was left in a Delaware repair shop, and that those emails were authenticated. Here is cut-and-paste what the NYT said in their article:

Admitted? Talk about "manipulation of the news." Admitted" implies they knew all along. They never knew because they had no way to confirm it at the time.

Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.

And now they have confirmation. How malicious of them to earlier not claim to know something they didn't.

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation.

This link is from Oct. 22, 2020.

What We Know and Don’t About Hunter Biden and a Laptop - The New York Times.

No concrete evidence has emerged that the laptop contains Russian disinformation.

With pressure mounting on the F.B.I. to respond to questions from Congress about the laptop, the bureau wrote to one of the president’s staunchest allies in Congress, Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, suggesting that it had not found any Russian disinformation on the laptop.

Enjoy your crow.

Point. Set. Match.

 

[thebeave]

You seem to be missing the point, or perhaps I wasn't quite clear enough. The issue at hand is that the NYT has essentially now admitted that the emails did come from Hunter Biden's laptop that was left in a Delaware repair shop, and that those emails were authenticated. Here is cut-and-paste what the NYT said in their article:

Admitted? Talk about "manipulation of the news." Admitted" implies they knew all along. They never knew because they had no way to confirm it at the time.

Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.

And now they have confirmation. How malicious of them to earlier not claim to know something they didn't.

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation.

This link is from Oct. 22, 2020.

What We Know and Don’t About Hunter Biden and a Laptop - The New York Times.

No concrete evidence has emerged that the laptop contains Russian disinformation.

With pressure mounting on the F.B.I. to respond to questions from Congress about the laptop, the bureau wrote to one of the president’s staunchest allies in Congress, Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, suggesting that it had not found any Russian disinformation on the laptop.

Enjoy your crow.

I think you are misinterpreting my use of the word "admitted". Here's a clip from the reason.com article in my OP:

While the Times did not ignore the story, the paper's coverage treated it with skepticism and disdain.

Similarly, I can say when I was 10 years old that I was skeptical of life elsewhere in the universe, but now at age 60 after considering it more thoroughly, I admit now that I do believe it to be true. It doesn't necessarily mean I knew it to be true all along. Perhaps I could have used a better choice of words. I never intended to claim that they knew it to be true, but were hiding it.

I also never claimed the NYT said it was Russian disinformation. Here's another clip from the reason.com article I posted above:

Pro-Biden, anti-Trump journalists, including several at the Times, portrayed the Post's story as unsubstantiated at best. Politico reported that "more than 50 former senior intelligence officials" believed the emails had "all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation."

What I said was, in my own words:

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation.

"By many", I meant people on this forum as well as in the general public, not necessarily the NYT.

So, no crow tonight (not that I haven't had my share over the years). I do believe I will head to Lucky's soon and get me a rotissiere chicken (Lemon Pepper spice). though. And some potato salad.

 

[Elixir]

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation.

Not sure how prevalent that could have been or what segment would have embraced it without evidence, but I can attest to never having heard anyone evince such a notion in other than what I took to be a sarcastic/facetious manner.

 

[Angry Floof]

I feel like we are seeing a rather transparent attempt by the post to claim something not in evidence.

Uh oh...

The New York Times Belatedly Admits the Emails on Hunter Biden's Abandoned Laptop Are Real and Newsworthy

Yesterday The New York Times published a story that quotes emails from a laptop that Hunter Biden, President Joe Biden's son, abandoned at a computer repair shop in Delaware. The messages reinforce the impression that Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company that reportedly paid the younger Biden $50,000 a month to serve on its board, expected him to use his influence with his father for the company's benefit—an allegation that figured prominently in the scandal that led to Donald Trump's impeachment for pressuring the Ukrainian government to announce a Biden-Burisma corruption investigation. The messages include evidence that Hunter Biden arranged an April 2015 meeting between his father, then the vice president, and a Burisma executive.

Looking at that bolded part - the recent Times story seems ot say nothing of the kind.

Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Broad Federal Investigation Continues (Published 2022)

The Justice Department inquiry into the business dealings of the president’s son has remained active, with a grand jury seeking information about payments from around the world.

www.nytimes.com

In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.”

The announcement “could be a really good thing or it could end up creating too great an expectation. We need to temper expectations regarding that visit,” Hunter Biden wrote.

Vice President Biden traveled to Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, about a week after the email.

In the same April 2014 email, Hunter Biden indicated that Burisma’s officials “need to know in no uncertain terms that we will not and cannot intervene directly with domestic policymakers, and that we need to abide by FARA and any other U.S. laws in the strictest sense across the board.”

He suggested enlisting the law firm where he worked at the time, Boies Schiller Flexner, to help Burisma through “direct discussions at state, energy and NSC,” referring to two cabinet departments and the National Security Council at the White House.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story

The firm “can devise a media plan and arrange for legal protections and mitigate U.S. domestic negative press regarding the current leadership if need be,” Mr. Biden wrote in the email.

Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer, Boies Schiller Flexner and Blue Star Strategies did not register under FARA on behalf of Burisma.

In another set of emails examined by prosecutors, Hunter Biden and Mr. Archer discussed inviting foreign business associates, including a Burisma executive, to a dinner in April 2015 at a Washington restaurant where Vice President Biden would stop by. It is not clear whether the Burisma executive attended the dinner, although the vice president did make an appearance, according to people familiar with the event.

So, no, the story does not “ include evidence that Hunter Biden arranged an April 2015 meeting between his father, then the vice president, and a Burisma executive.”

He does not arrange a meeting between, he tells the executive where his father is going to be. If I told a criminal that you had plans to be at a certain restaurant, does that mean I’ve “arranged a meeting between you”?

Come on.

But that was then. A year and a half later, the Times thinks the emails it viewed as suspect before Joe Biden's election are now newsworthy.

Again, no.
It is doing a story on the tax question that is legitimately in the news because of legal dates, and is including the background.

Come on, “they now think it is newsworthy?”
No, they did not change their minds, they are reporting it exactly the same way they did before.

"People familiar" with a federal investigation of Hunter Biden, it reports, "said prosecutors had examined emails" between him, his former business partner Devon Archer, "and others" regarding "Burisma and other foreign business activity." Those emails "were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop." The messages "were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation."

Reading through this thread, it seems some people here might be eating crow with a side of mashed potatoes for dinner tonight.

It seems like you might want to pick up a fork for that crow pie.

Your premise that the NYT “now thinks it’s newsworthy” is bunk.
Your premise that the emails “show Hunter arranging a meeting” is bunk.

It looks exactly as it did before. A connected kid trying to make money off his connections, and having nothing but his own promises to sell. He even explicitly says he can’t promise Joe’s cooperation. None of these show that Hunter was successful at it, or that Joe Biden cooperated in any way.

Just as unfounded and dumb as it was 18 months ago. And just as unfounded and dumb to say that either the NYT changed its mind or that we should.

You seem to be missing the point, or perhaps I wasn't quite clear enough. The issue at hand is that the NYT has essentially now admitted that the emails did come from Hunter Biden's laptop that was left in a Delaware repair shop, and that those emails were authenticated. Here is cut-and-paste what the NYT said in their article:

People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation. Or that the laptop never existed in the first place. You have focused on whether the reason.com article I quoted faithfully relayed the details of the NYT article, which it does seem they could have done a better job.

What was the "Uh oh..." about? We're led to believe by your font bolding and color that those specific sentences and phrases were the "uh oh..." part. Is it real and newsworthy that Hunter Biden [insert here] or is the whole point about blatant media manipulation or whatever?

 

[ZiprHead]

Are there any emails from Hunter saying he would actually do what Burisma wanted him to do?

And how do we know these emails are legitimate? These computers passed through many hands before getting to the FBI.

Exactly. I find the providence of the laptop sorely lacking. I strongly suspect most of the e-mails are legitimate but given the providence I consider it likely that things have been tampered with. Thus it means nothing--and showing that much of it is true means nothing, it could easily be someone hacked his system, got his old e-mails and then changed things a bit.

Don't go looking for suspicious stuff on that hard drive, address the chain of custody first!

How would the Russians do all that, though? Are they logging into his laptop from Russia, or are the Russian hackers here in the US somehow given access to it? Or did they take the laptop to Russia? Wouldn't a competent computer forensics team be able to tell if the emails or other information were altered?

Where above is anyone suggesting it was Russians??? Rudy Giuliani had the laptop for a time. You remember Rudy, right? The guy that runs a security consulting firm and tried to get Zelensky to dig up dirt on Biden. Yeah, he wouldn't have access to anyone who could screw with that laptop.

 

[thebeave]

Are there any emails from Hunter saying he would actually do what Burisma wanted him to do?

And how do we know these emails are legitimate? These computers passed through many hands before getting to the FBI.

Exactly. I find the providence of the laptop sorely lacking. I strongly suspect most of the e-mails are legitimate but given the providence I consider it likely that things have been tampered with. Thus it means nothing--and showing that much of it is true means nothing, it could easily be someone hacked his system, got his old e-mails and then changed things a bit.

Don't go looking for suspicious stuff on that hard drive, address the chain of custody first!

How would the Russians do all that, though? Are they logging into his laptop from Russia, or are the Russian hackers here in the US somehow given access to it? Or did they take the laptop to Russia? Wouldn't a competent computer forensics team be able to tell if the emails or other information were altered?

Where above is anyone suggesting it was Russians??? Rudy Giuliani had the laptop for a time. You remember Rudy, right? The guy that runs a security consulting firm and tried to get Zelensky to dig up dirt on Biden. Yeah, he wouldn't have access to anyone who could screw with that laptop.

Loren himself, in post #22. Here, I'll save you some time:

Yeah, as more comes out it looks like the whole thing is faked. They got the e-mails by some illicit means (probably Moscow) and are using harmless stuff as support for the spicy stuff they faked.

 

[blastula]

I think you are misinterpreting my use of the word "admitted". Here's a clip from the reason.com article in my OP:

While the Times did not ignore the story, the paper's coverage treated it with skepticism and disdain.

Similarly, I can say when I was 10 years old that I was skeptical of life elsewhere in the universe, but now at age 60 after considering it more thoroughly, I admit now that I do believe it to be true. It doesn't necessarily mean I knew it to be true all along. Perhaps I could have used a better choice of words. I never intended to claim that they knew it to be true, but were hiding it.

And they were correct to treat it skeptically, as it was unproven. Weird to criticize them for doing their literal job.

I also never claimed the NYT said it was Russian disinformation. Here's another clip from the reason.com article I posted above:

Pro-Biden, anti-Trump journalists, including several at the Times, portrayed the Post's story as unsubstantiated at best. Politico reported that "more than 50 former senior intelligence officials" believed the emails had "all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation."

What I said was, in my own words:

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation.

"By many", I meant people on this forum as well as in the general public, not necessarily the NYT.

So, no crow tonight (not that I haven't had my share over the years). I do believe I will head to Lucky's soon and get me a rotissiere chicken (Lemon Pepper spice). though. And some potato salad.

Nice to see you admit now that the NYT did not say it was Russian disinformation. Even though NYT is the only media you mentioned.

But again, it was all speculation either way. Nobody knew. People that believed that they were real emails were just as unfounded in their belief. So what if someone believed they were fake? It doesn't take TDS to think Giuliani was spouting fake news.

 

[thebeave]

I feel like we are seeing a rather transparent attempt by the post to claim something not in evidence.

Uh oh...

The New York Times Belatedly Admits the Emails on Hunter Biden's Abandoned Laptop Are Real and Newsworthy

Yesterday The New York Times published a story that quotes emails from a laptop that Hunter Biden, President Joe Biden's son, abandoned at a computer repair shop in Delaware. The messages reinforce the impression that Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company that reportedly paid the younger Biden $50,000 a month to serve on its board, expected him to use his influence with his father for the company's benefit—an allegation that figured prominently in the scandal that led to Donald Trump's impeachment for pressuring the Ukrainian government to announce a Biden-Burisma corruption investigation. The messages include evidence that Hunter Biden arranged an April 2015 meeting between his father, then the vice president, and a Burisma executive.

Looking at that bolded part - the recent Times story seems ot say nothing of the kind.

Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Broad Federal Investigation Continues (Published 2022)

The Justice Department inquiry into the business dealings of the president’s son has remained active, with a grand jury seeking information about payments from around the world.

www.nytimes.com

In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.”

The announcement “could be a really good thing or it could end up creating too great an expectation. We need to temper expectations regarding that visit,” Hunter Biden wrote.

Vice President Biden traveled to Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, about a week after the email.

In the same April 2014 email, Hunter Biden indicated that Burisma’s officials “need to know in no uncertain terms that we will not and cannot intervene directly with domestic policymakers, and that we need to abide by FARA and any other U.S. laws in the strictest sense across the board.”

He suggested enlisting the law firm where he worked at the time, Boies Schiller Flexner, to help Burisma through “direct discussions at state, energy and NSC,” referring to two cabinet departments and the National Security Council at the White House.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story

The firm “can devise a media plan and arrange for legal protections and mitigate U.S. domestic negative press regarding the current leadership if need be,” Mr. Biden wrote in the email.

Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer, Boies Schiller Flexner and Blue Star Strategies did not register under FARA on behalf of Burisma.

In another set of emails examined by prosecutors, Hunter Biden and Mr. Archer discussed inviting foreign business associates, including a Burisma executive, to a dinner in April 2015 at a Washington restaurant where Vice President Biden would stop by. It is not clear whether the Burisma executive attended the dinner, although the vice president did make an appearance, according to people familiar with the event.

So, no, the story does not “ include evidence that Hunter Biden arranged an April 2015 meeting between his father, then the vice president, and a Burisma executive.”

He does not arrange a meeting between, he tells the executive where his father is going to be. If I told a criminal that you had plans to be at a certain restaurant, does that mean I’ve “arranged a meeting between you”?

Come on.

But that was then. A year and a half later, the Times thinks the emails it viewed as suspect before Joe Biden's election are now newsworthy.

Again, no.
It is doing a story on the tax question that is legitimately in the news because of legal dates, and is including the background.

Come on, “they now think it is newsworthy?”
No, they did not change their minds, they are reporting it exactly the same way they did before.

"People familiar" with a federal investigation of Hunter Biden, it reports, "said prosecutors had examined emails" between him, his former business partner Devon Archer, "and others" regarding "Burisma and other foreign business activity." Those emails "were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop." The messages "were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation."

Reading through this thread, it seems some people here might be eating crow with a side of mashed potatoes for dinner tonight.

It seems like you might want to pick up a fork for that crow pie.

Your premise that the NYT “now thinks it’s newsworthy” is bunk.
Your premise that the emails “show Hunter arranging a meeting” is bunk.

It looks exactly as it did before. A connected kid trying to make money off his connections, and having nothing but his own promises to sell. He even explicitly says he can’t promise Joe’s cooperation. None of these show that Hunter was successful at it, or that Joe Biden cooperated in any way.

Just as unfounded and dumb as it was 18 months ago. And just as unfounded and dumb to say that either the NYT changed its mind or that we should.

You seem to be missing the point, or perhaps I wasn't quite clear enough. The issue at hand is that the NYT has essentially now admitted that the emails did come from Hunter Biden's laptop that was left in a Delaware repair shop, and that those emails were authenticated. Here is cut-and-paste what the NYT said in their article:

People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation. Or that the laptop never existed in the first place. You have focused on whether the reason.com article I quoted faithfully relayed the details of the NYT article, which it does seem they could have done a better job.

What was the "Uh oh..." about? We're led to believe by your font bolding and color that those specific sentences and phrases were the "uh oh..." part. Is it real and newsworthy that Hunter Biden [insert here] or is the whole point about blatant media manipulation or whatever?

All that bolding is from someone else not me! Check out post #125 if you want to see my original post from yesterday.

 

[thebeave]

I think you are misinterpreting my use of the word "admitted". Here's a clip from the reason.com article in my OP:

While the Times did not ignore the story, the paper's coverage treated it with skepticism and disdain.

Similarly, I can say when I was 10 years old that I was skeptical of life elsewhere in the universe, but now at age 60 after considering it more thoroughly, I admit now that I do believe it to be true. It doesn't necessarily mean I knew it to be true all along. Perhaps I could have used a better choice of words. I never intended to claim that they knew it to be true, but were hiding it.

And they were correct to treat it skeptically, as it was unproven. Weird to criticize them for doing their literal job.

I also never claimed the NYT said it was Russian disinformation. Here's another clip from the reason.com article I posted above:

Pro-Biden, anti-Trump journalists, including several at the Times, portrayed the Post's story as unsubstantiated at best. Politico reported that "more than 50 former senior intelligence officials" believed the emails had "all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation."

What I said was, in my own words:

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation.

"By many", I meant people on this forum as well as in the general public, not necessarily the NYT.

So, no crow tonight (not that I haven't had my share over the years). I do believe I will head to Lucky's soon and get me a rotissiere chicken (Lemon Pepper spice). though. And some potato salad.

Nice to see you admit now that the NYT did not say it was Russian disinformation. Even though NYT is the only media you mentioned.

But again, it was all speculation either way. Nobody knew. People that believed that they were real emails were just as unfounded in their belief. So what if someone believed they were fake? It doesn't take TDS to think Giuliani was spouting fake news.

Arg. Show me where I ever explicitly claimed the NYT said it was Russian disinformation. That was Politico who was going with that, per the reason.com article. I personally just said "many people" thought it was Russian disinformation back in 2020. But I do agree with you that it was a new story and not yet fleshed out or investigated. So I don't blame the NYT for their initial skeptical stance, nor am I critisizing them for that. Really, I'm kinda beating on the people and especially the media who completely dismissed it as a nutjob conspiracy from the get-go, and I'm using the NYT ( a decidedly left wing source) as the vehicle to show that the laptop story has got legs.

 

[Angry Floof]

I feel like we are seeing a rather transparent attempt by the post to claim something not in evidence.

Uh oh...

The New York Times Belatedly Admits the Emails on Hunter Biden's Abandoned Laptop Are Real and Newsworthy

Yesterday The New York Times published a story that quotes emails from a laptop that Hunter Biden, President Joe Biden's son, abandoned at a computer repair shop in Delaware. The messages reinforce the impression that Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company that reportedly paid the younger Biden $50,000 a month to serve on its board, expected him to use his influence with his father for the company's benefit—an allegation that figured prominently in the scandal that led to Donald Trump's impeachment for pressuring the Ukrainian government to announce a Biden-Burisma corruption investigation. The messages include evidence that Hunter Biden arranged an April 2015 meeting between his father, then the vice president, and a Burisma executive.

Looking at that bolded part - the recent Times story seems ot say nothing of the kind.

Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Broad Federal Investigation Continues (Published 2022)

The Justice Department inquiry into the business dealings of the president’s son has remained active, with a grand jury seeking information about payments from around the world.

www.nytimes.com

In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.”

The announcement “could be a really good thing or it could end up creating too great an expectation. We need to temper expectations regarding that visit,” Hunter Biden wrote.

Vice President Biden traveled to Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, about a week after the email.

In the same April 2014 email, Hunter Biden indicated that Burisma’s officials “need to know in no uncertain terms that we will not and cannot intervene directly with domestic policymakers, and that we need to abide by FARA and any other U.S. laws in the strictest sense across the board.”

He suggested enlisting the law firm where he worked at the time, Boies Schiller Flexner, to help Burisma through “direct discussions at state, energy and NSC,” referring to two cabinet departments and the National Security Council at the White House.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story

The firm “can devise a media plan and arrange for legal protections and mitigate U.S. domestic negative press regarding the current leadership if need be,” Mr. Biden wrote in the email.

Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer, Boies Schiller Flexner and Blue Star Strategies did not register under FARA on behalf of Burisma.

In another set of emails examined by prosecutors, Hunter Biden and Mr. Archer discussed inviting foreign business associates, including a Burisma executive, to a dinner in April 2015 at a Washington restaurant where Vice President Biden would stop by. It is not clear whether the Burisma executive attended the dinner, although the vice president did make an appearance, according to people familiar with the event.

So, no, the story does not “ include evidence that Hunter Biden arranged an April 2015 meeting between his father, then the vice president, and a Burisma executive.”

He does not arrange a meeting between, he tells the executive where his father is going to be. If I told a criminal that you had plans to be at a certain restaurant, does that mean I’ve “arranged a meeting between you”?

Come on.

But that was then. A year and a half later, the Times thinks the emails it viewed as suspect before Joe Biden's election are now newsworthy.

Again, no.
It is doing a story on the tax question that is legitimately in the news because of legal dates, and is including the background.

Come on, “they now think it is newsworthy?”
No, they did not change their minds, they are reporting it exactly the same way they did before.

"People familiar" with a federal investigation of Hunter Biden, it reports, "said prosecutors had examined emails" between him, his former business partner Devon Archer, "and others" regarding "Burisma and other foreign business activity." Those emails "were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop." The messages "were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation."

Reading through this thread, it seems some people here might be eating crow with a side of mashed potatoes for dinner tonight.

It seems like you might want to pick up a fork for that crow pie.

Your premise that the NYT “now thinks it’s newsworthy” is bunk.
Your premise that the emails “show Hunter arranging a meeting” is bunk.

It looks exactly as it did before. A connected kid trying to make money off his connections, and having nothing but his own promises to sell. He even explicitly says he can’t promise Joe’s cooperation. None of these show that Hunter was successful at it, or that Joe Biden cooperated in any way.

Just as unfounded and dumb as it was 18 months ago. And just as unfounded and dumb to say that either the NYT changed its mind or that we should.

You seem to be missing the point, or perhaps I wasn't quite clear enough. The issue at hand is that the NYT has essentially now admitted that the emails did come from Hunter Biden's laptop that was left in a Delaware repair shop, and that those emails were authenticated. Here is cut-and-paste what the NYT said in their article:

People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.

The prevailing theory back in 2020 by many was that the laptop contents did not originate from Hunter, but were Russian fabricated disinformation. Or that the laptop never existed in the first place. You have focused on whether the reason.com article I quoted faithfully relayed the details of the NYT article, which it does seem they could have done a better job.

What was the "Uh oh..." about? We're led to believe by your font bolding and color that those specific sentences and phrases were the "uh oh..." part. Is it real and newsworthy that Hunter Biden [insert here] or is the whole point about blatant media manipulation or whatever?

All that bolding is from someone else not me! Check out post #125 if you want to see my original post from yesterday.

Ah, ok. But still, what was the "uh oh..." and what are people supposed to be eating crow about?

 

[ZiprHead]

Are there any emails from Hunter saying he would actually do what Burisma wanted him to do?

And how do we know these emails are legitimate? These computers passed through many hands before getting to the FBI.

Exactly. I find the providence of the laptop sorely lacking. I strongly suspect most of the e-mails are legitimate but given the providence I consider it likely that things have been tampered with. Thus it means nothing--and showing that much of it is true means nothing, it could easily be someone hacked his system, got his old e-mails and then changed things a bit.

Don't go looking for suspicious stuff on that hard drive, address the chain of custody first!

How would the Russians do all that, though? Are they logging into his laptop from Russia, or are the Russian hackers here in the US somehow given access to it? Or did they take the laptop to Russia? Wouldn't a competent computer forensics team be able to tell if the emails or other information were altered?

Where above is anyone suggesting it was Russians??? Rudy Giuliani had the laptop for a time. You remember Rudy, right? The guy that runs a security consulting firm and tried to get Zelensky to dig up dirt on Biden. Yeah, he wouldn't have access to anyone who could screw with that laptop.

Loren himself, in post #22. Here, I'll save you some time:

Yeah, as more comes out it looks like the whole thing is faked. They got the e-mails by some illicit means (probably Moscow) and are using harmless stuff as support for the spicy stuff they faked.

You'll have to take that up with Loren.

Now, do you have anything to say about my comment?

 

[thebeave]

Are there any emails from Hunter saying he would actually do what Burisma wanted him to do?

And how do we know these emails are legitimate? These computers passed through many hands before getting to the FBI.

Exactly. I find the providence of the laptop sorely lacking. I strongly suspect most of the e-mails are legitimate but given the providence I consider it likely that things have been tampered with. Thus it means nothing--and showing that much of it is true means nothing, it could easily be someone hacked his system, got his old e-mails and then changed things a bit.

Don't go looking for suspicious stuff on that hard drive, address the chain of custody first!

How would the Russians do all that, though? Are they logging into his laptop from Russia, or are the Russian hackers here in the US somehow given access to it? Or did they take the laptop to Russia? Wouldn't a competent computer forensics team be able to tell if the emails or other information were altered?

Where above is anyone suggesting it was Russians??? Rudy Giuliani had the laptop for a time. You remember Rudy, right? The guy that runs a security consulting firm and tried to get Zelensky to dig up dirt on Biden. Yeah, he wouldn't have access to anyone who could screw with that laptop.

Loren himself, in post #22. Here, I'll save you some time:

Yeah, as more comes out it looks like the whole thing is faked. They got the e-mails by some illicit means (probably Moscow) and are using harmless stuff as support for the spicy stuff they faked.

You'll have to take that up with Loren.

Now, do you have anything to say about my comment?

Well, the NYT did claim that the emails were authenticated. So, if Rudy and his cronies altered them, I presume the computer forensics would show that, would it not? I'm not a computer expert, so I can't really say if it is possible to fake content on a hard drive and not have it be detected. As a minimum, they did not say that any of the content appears doctored. That's all I got for ya.

 

[Artemus]

When I just had just reached voting age and it was revealed that Billy Carter had registered as a foreign agent of Libya, I remember thinking "Who gives a shit?" It's deja vu all over again.

 

[Elixir]

When I just had just reached voting age and it was revealed that Billy Carter had registered as a foreign agent of Libya, I remember thinking "Who gives a shit?" It's deja vu all over again.

That’s why they don’t register any more. Nothin but trouble once you let laws and stuff interfere.

 

[ZiprHead]

Are there any emails from Hunter saying he would actually do what Burisma wanted him to do?

And how do we know these emails are legitimate? These computers passed through many hands before getting to the FBI.

Exactly. I find the providence of the laptop sorely lacking. I strongly suspect most of the e-mails are legitimate but given the providence I consider it likely that things have been tampered with. Thus it means nothing--and showing that much of it is true means nothing, it could easily be someone hacked his system, got his old e-mails and then changed things a bit.

Don't go looking for suspicious stuff on that hard drive, address the chain of custody first!

How would the Russians do all that, though? Are they logging into his laptop from Russia, or are the Russian hackers here in the US somehow given access to it? Or did they take the laptop to Russia? Wouldn't a competent computer forensics team be able to tell if the emails or other information were altered?

Where above is anyone suggesting it was Russians??? Rudy Giuliani had the laptop for a time. You remember Rudy, right? The guy that runs a security consulting firm and tried to get Zelensky to dig up dirt on Biden. Yeah, he wouldn't have access to anyone who could screw with that laptop.

Loren himself, in post #22. Here, I'll save you some time:

Yeah, as more comes out it looks like the whole thing is faked. They got the e-mails by some illicit means (probably Moscow) and are using harmless stuff as support for the spicy stuff they faked.

You'll have to take that up with Loren.

Now, do you have anything to say about my comment?

Well, the NYT did claim that the emails were authenticated.

All the emails or just some?

So, if Rudy and his cronies altered them, I presume the computer forensics would show that, would it not? I'm not a computer expert, so I can't really say if it is possible to fake content on a hard drive and not have it be detected. As a minimum, they did not say that any of the content appears doctored. That's all I got for ya.

To be sure, the email headers contain the servers the emails went through, those servers would have to be examined to confirm if true. Spoofing email headers is quite easy.

 

[thebeave]

All the emails or just some?

I don't know.