Breakdown In Civil Order

[Loren Pechtel]

Let's look at statistics instead. If your wild and wooly, fact-free assertion were correct, Portugal would be in heaps of trouble when it decriminalised the use of all illicit drugs in 2001.

It isn't.

Are seriously suggesting that drug addiction is not a major factor with homelessness? How could you ever hope to return these people to society if you don’t address that? And in Portugal, people still get fines for drug possession and the drugs taken away. It’s understandable that we may not want long prison sentences for drug possession, but even the Portuguese recognize that you’ve got to separate the user from the poison.

You utterly missed the point.

He's showing that the long term results of their actions has been to lower drug use.

You're making the standard mistake of the right--focusing on the message rather than the reality. Never mind if you're making things worse.

 

[TSwizzle]

You couldn't make this shit up;

Culver City's leaders are considering clearing out more than a dozen parking spots under a freeway overpass which may give a homeless encampment in the area some room to grow. Councilmembers with Culver City spent Monday night discussing the possible move, which would impact Washington Boulevard at the 405 Freeway. The proposed move, also known as council agenda item C7, was introduced due to the pandemic and ongoing regional housing pressures causing the encampment to grow under the freeway overpass in that area.

Fox

This came about because of a potential ADA law suit. The encampment forces pedestrians off the sidewalk and into the road. A bit difficult for people in wheel chairs. So the council are going to take away a lane for vehicles and make it a pedestrian walkway. $200k at least.

And apparently it passed, 4-1.

 

[bilby]

You couldn't make this shit up;

Culver City's leaders are considering clearing out more than a dozen parking spots under a freeway overpass which may give a homeless encampment in the area some room to grow. Councilmembers with Culver City spent Monday night discussing the possible move, which would impact Washington Boulevard at the 405 Freeway. The proposed move, also known as council agenda item C7, was introduced due to the pandemic and ongoing regional housing pressures causing the encampment to grow under the freeway overpass in that area.

Fox

This came about because of a potential ADA law suit. The encampment forces pedestrians off the sidewalk and into the road. A bit difficult for people in wheel chairs. So the council are going to take away a lane for vehicles and make it a pedestrian walkway. $200k at least.

And apparently it passed, 4-1.

What would you have preferred them to do, and what would the financial and social costs of your alternative solution have been?

You say "You couldn't make this shit up" as though there is an obvious and dramatically better option that has been disregarded; But I have zero clue what that option might be. Presumably doing nothing would invite a lawsuit that would cost far in excess of $200k - so what choice did they have?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You couldn't make this shit up;

Culver City's leaders are considering clearing out more than a dozen parking spots under a freeway overpass which may give a homeless encampment in the area some room to grow. Councilmembers with Culver City spent Monday night discussing the possible move, which would impact Washington Boulevard at the 405 Freeway. The proposed move, also known as council agenda item C7, was introduced due to the pandemic and ongoing regional housing pressures causing the encampment to grow under the freeway overpass in that area.

Fox

This came about because of a potential ADA law suit. The encampment forces pedestrians off the sidewalk and into the road. A bit difficult for people in wheel chairs. So the council are going to take away a lane for vehicles and make it a pedestrian walkway. $200k at least.

And apparently it passed, 4-1.

What would you have preferred them to do, and what would the financial and social costs of your alternative solution have been?

You say "You couldn't make this shit up" as though there is an obvious and dramatically better option that has been disregarded; But I have zero clue what that option might be. Presumably doing nothing would invite a lawsuit that would cost far in excess of $200k - so what choice did they have?

Get serious about homeless encampments that cause problems.

 

[bilby]

You couldn't make this shit up;

Culver City's leaders are considering clearing out more than a dozen parking spots under a freeway overpass which may give a homeless encampment in the area some room to grow. Councilmembers with Culver City spent Monday night discussing the possible move, which would impact Washington Boulevard at the 405 Freeway. The proposed move, also known as council agenda item C7, was introduced due to the pandemic and ongoing regional housing pressures causing the encampment to grow under the freeway overpass in that area.

Fox

This came about because of a potential ADA law suit. The encampment forces pedestrians off the sidewalk and into the road. A bit difficult for people in wheel chairs. So the council are going to take away a lane for vehicles and make it a pedestrian walkway. $200k at least.

And apparently it passed, 4-1.

What would you have preferred them to do, and what would the financial and social costs of your alternative solution have been?

You say "You couldn't make this shit up" as though there is an obvious and dramatically better option that has been disregarded; But I have zero clue what that option might be. Presumably doing nothing would invite a lawsuit that would cost far in excess of $200k - so what choice did they have?

Get serious about homeless encampments that cause problems.

Thanks for the detailed plan.

I guess all the people who were having a laugh about them are feeling pretty silly now that you have provided such a well reasoned, costed, and practical approach for us to implement.

WTF does 'get serious' even mean? Round the homeless people up and put them on trains to extermination camps?

I want to hear workable alternative options, not vague platitudes that sound like euphemisms for genocidal final solutions.

 

[steve_bank]

You couldn't make this shit up;

Culver City's leaders are considering clearing out more than a dozen parking spots under a freeway overpass which may give a homeless encampment in the area some room to grow. Councilmembers with Culver City spent Monday night discussing the possible move, which would impact Washington Boulevard at the 405 Freeway. The proposed move, also known as council agenda item C7, was introduced due to the pandemic and ongoing regional housing pressures causing the encampment to grow under the freeway overpass in that area.

Fox

This came about because of a potential ADA law suit. The encampment forces pedestrians off the sidewalk and into the road. A bit difficult for people in wheel chairs. So the council are going to take away a lane for vehicles and make it a pedestrian walkway. $200k at least.

And apparently it passed, 4-1.

What would you have preferred them to do, and what would the financial and social costs of your alternative solution have been?

You say "You couldn't make this shit up" as though there is an obvious and dramatically better option that has been disregarded; But I have zero clue what that option might be. Presumably doing nothing would invite a lawsuit that would cost far in excess of $200k - so what choice did they have?

Get serious about homeless encampments that cause problems.

Fires are common at camps. Yesterday in a homeless camp fire several propane tanks ruptured. Fortunately there was no explosion.

Here in Seattle I have had to walk in the street or cross the street because a camp is blocking the sidewalk. They are starting to be cleared up, our new mayor appears to taking charge. They look like garbage dumps.

Here in Seattle politics and lack of will to make politically incorrect decisions prevented actions. Therre was a camp on a school ground where people were looking in windows and openly doing drugs, and harassing people. Nobody would calim juristiction and authority to remove the camp.

 

[Politesse]

So you wish to see all homeless camps "removed".

I assume you mean dismantled at considerable taxpayer expense, and the inhabitants scattered to somewhere else in the city? That's not as novel - or effective - a plan as you might be thinking.

Liberals and conservatives, doesn't matter man. It's people with money, think you can just pay to erase things that make them feel uncomfortable. "Problems". Even if those problems are people. But people aren't easy to erase. When you try to erase people, the stench of violence lingers like cancer.

 

[Politesse]

Fires are common at camps.

Yes, and they are even more common in residences, and most common of all in industrial districts. Would you recommend evicting a neighborhood of property owners when one of them starts an accidental fire? Close down an entire row of shops when one of them has a kitchen fire? Why or why not?

Would it perhaps be because you respect the basic rights and dignity of people who are fortunate enough to live in a house, as individuals rather than only as homogenous members of a social class you desire to "remove"?

 

[TSwizzle]

Fires are common at camps. Yesterday in a homeless camp fire several propane tanks ruptured. Fortunately there was no explosion.

Camps here in the Los Angeles area are frequent causes of wildfires. These fires can have freeways to be closed down. Newsom and Garcetti then blame it all on climate change

A shocking video captured by a witness shows a large fire at a homeless encampment in Culver City. Over the weekend, firefighters in Culver City received reports of a fire in the 10000 block of Jefferson Boulevard around 10:45 p.m. Sunday. Early Monday morning, a witness shared a video on social media of the large fire believed to be taking place at the homeless encampment. In the 32-second clip, there are at least four loud bangs heard in the fire scene.

Fox

Here in Seattle I have had to walk in the street or cross the street because a camp is blocking the sidewalk.

The solution to that Culver City intends on taking is not to move the camp, oh no. They are going to take a lane from the road and make that pedestrian only. Don't want to inconvenience the "homeless".

Culver City's leaders are considering clearing out more than a dozen parking spots under a freeway overpass which may give a homeless encampment in the area some room to grow.

Fox

It's great having the adults in charge.

 

[bilby]

The solution to that Culver City intends on taking is not to move the camp, oh no. They are going to take a lane from the road and make that pedestrian only. Don't want to inconvenience the "homeless".

I'll ask you again:

What would prefer them to do, and what would the financial and social costs of your alternative solution be?

Are a dozen parking spots really a better use for this land, in your opinion?

You want the homeless camp removed, but seem to forget that every 'from' has to have a 'to'. Where, exactly, do you propose to move the inhabitants to, how will you do that, and how will you prevent them from simply returning, after whatever effort and expense you go to to move them elsewhere?

You seem more than happy to ridicule the solutions being attempted, so presumably you have an obvious better solution in mind. Don't be shy - share your great idea with us poor fools to whom your genius idea is far from obvious.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So you wish to see all homeless camps "removed".

I assume you mean dismantled at considerable taxpayer expense, and the inhabitants scattered to somewhere else in the city? That's not as novel - or effective - a plan as you might be thinking.

Liberals and conservatives, doesn't matter man. It's people with money, think you can just pay to erase things that make them feel uncomfortable. "Problems". Even if those problems are people. But people aren't easy to erase. When you try to erase people, the stench of violence lingers like cancer.

Remove anything blocking sidewalks and the like.

 

[bilby]

So you wish to see all homeless camps "removed".

I assume you mean dismantled at considerable taxpayer expense, and the inhabitants scattered to somewhere else in the city? That's not as novel - or effective - a plan as you might be thinking.

Liberals and conservatives, doesn't matter man. It's people with money, think you can just pay to erase things that make them feel uncomfortable. "Problems". Even if those problems are people. But people aren't easy to erase. When you try to erase people, the stench of violence lingers like cancer.

Remove anything blocking sidewalks and the like.

"Steal people's stuff and throw it away" is a really shit idea.

Made even worse by being targeted at people who have very little stuff to begin with.

 

[TSwizzle]

The New York subway seems like a very dangerous place these days;

This is the moment a man launched a vile homophobic attack on an innocent New York City subway passenger. The attacker, who is still on the run, spat at his 22-year-old victim and ripped his hair out on the northbound A train at West 190 St just before 2.30pm on March 19.

Daily Mail

There's always someone willing to record these things but never anyone willing to lift a hand to help. New York just seems to be getting evermore dangerous.

 

[Trausti]

The New York subway seems like a very dangerous place these days;

This is the moment a man launched a vile homophobic attack on an innocent New York City subway passenger. The attacker, who is still on the run, spat at his 22-year-old victim and ripped his hair out on the northbound A train at West 190 St just before 2.30pm on March 19.

Daily Mail

There's always someone willing to record these things but never anyone willing to lift a hand to help. New York just seems to be getting evermore dangerous.

The people there voted for this. We should be happy for them.

 

[ZiprHead]

The New York subway seems like a very dangerous place these days;

When has it ever not been?

 

[Trausti]

The New York subway seems like a very dangerous place these days;

When has it ever not been?

When Giuliani and Bloomberg were mayor?

 

[laughing dog]

The New York subway seems like a very dangerous place these days;

When has it ever not been?

When Giuliani and Bloomberg were mayor?

I grew up in NYC and people were wary of the subway safety in the 1960s.

 

[ZiprHead]

The New York subway seems like a very dangerous place these days;

When has it ever not been?

When Giuliani and Bloomberg were mayor?

I take it from the question mark that you don't really know. But that doesn't stop you from shitting all over the chess board.

 

[bilby]

New York just seems to be getting evermore dangerous

Are you fucking kidding?

Back in the '70s, New York was a heaving hotbed of crime. It has become VASTLY less dangerous since; If you believe the opposite, then you are clearly not competent to have a useful opinion.

Reality exists. Your beliefs are not better than, nor even as good as, facts.

Not even (and I really cannot stress this enough) if you get them from the fucking Daily Mail.

 

[TSwizzle]

The New York subway seems like a very dangerous place these days;

This is the moment a man launched a vile homophobic attack on an innocent New York City subway passenger. The attacker, who is still on the run, spat at his 22-year-old victim and ripped his hair out on the northbound A train at West 190 St just before 2.30pm on March 19.

Daily Mail

There's always someone willing to record these things but never anyone willing to lift a hand to help. New York just seems to be getting evermore dangerous.

The people there voted for this. We should be happy for them.

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.