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GOP: The party of idiots

ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Ford said:
Rhea said:
Derec your comments about women and Harris in particular are disgusting.
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And for the record, I have a BMW. If you shop around and get a gently used one, you can drive a Beemer for the same or less than what some other "economy" cars are going for nowadays. I guess in Derec's mind I must have fucked someone to get mine.
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My understanding is that while you can get them pretty cheap you'll pay a lot more in maintenance.
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I have one too. The parts tend to be a little more expensive but the quality is worth it., But they are not disturbingly so, unlike Porsches where a brake caliper can be $2000. The labor is the same as any other car, unless you go to the stealership. I've only been there once to have the defective Takata airbag replaced. Otherwise I go to local mechanics with no issues.
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A few weeks after I bought my very first new car, a 1972 BMW 2002, it suddenly began running so rough it was barely moving. I limped it in to the dealership, where the sales manager came out in his suit and tie. I told him what was goin on and he asked me to wait a minute. Came right back with s little rubber stopper. Asked me to open the hood, which I did. He pulled out a folding pocket knife, reached into the engine compartment, made a couple quick cuts and emerged with a racket ball-sized object, which he hurled over the fence separating the dealership from their boneyard. I was all “what was that?” . “Surgery” he replied.
Sure enough, problem solved.
I was amazed.
It was some pollution control recirculator valve or something … anyhow, no charge.
 
Elixir said:
ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Ford said:
Rhea said:
Derec your comments about women and Harris in particular are disgusting.
Click to expand...
And for the record, I have a BMW. If you shop around and get a gently used one, you can drive a Beemer for the same or less than what some other "economy" cars are going for nowadays. I guess in Derec's mind I must have fucked someone to get mine.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that while you can get them pretty cheap you'll pay a lot more in maintenance.
Click to expand...
I have one too. The parts tend to be a little more expensive but the quality is worth it., But they are not disturbingly so, unlike Porsches where a brake caliper can be $2000. The labor is the same as any other car, unless you go to the stealership. I've only been there once to have the defective Takata airbag replaced. Otherwise I go to local mechanics with no issues.
Click to expand...
A few weeks after I bought my very first new car, a 1972 BMW 2002, it suddenly began running so rough it was barely moving. I limped it in to the dealership, where the sales manager came out in his suit and tie. I told him what was goin on and he asked me to wait a minute. Came right back with s little rubber stopper. Asked me to open the hood, which I did. He pulled out a folding pocket knife, reached into the engine compartment, made a couple quick cuts and emerged with a racket ball-sized object, which he hurled over the fence separating the dealership from their boneyard. I was all “what was that?” . “Surgery” he replied.
Sure enough, problem solved.
I was amazed.
It was some pollution control recirculator valve or something … anyhow, no charge.
Click to expand...
Cool car. The mechanical fuel injection system is a beast to repair but otherwise they are not a lot different than any other car on the road as far as repairs go. The experience driving one is where that quality shines through. I've had several sports cars before in my life, and a couple muscle cars. I've never had a more satisfying and fun experience driving a car.
 
Elixir said:
ZiprHead said:
Derec said:
ZiprHead said:
I believe I am sticking to the issue.
Click to expand...
No you are not.
Is not the motivation for an opinion part of an issue? Would it be wrong to bring up a Christian's faith motivation while discussing their anti-abortion stance?
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Your claim of my motivation is erroneous. You also went after me personally, attacking my sex life.
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You brought your sex life into political discussions a long time ago. So you are allowed to use it to bolster your political opinions but we are not allowed to address it because it's personal? So is that how it works?
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I think so. Touchy subject though.
I agree with Derec that a person’s choice, forced or otherwise, to have exclusively transactional relationships with people of the opposite (or same, as the case may be) sex, should not be criminalized, even if it is based on a coercive discrepancy in physical resources. Whether it is fair game in a discussion about GOP idiots, is perhaps a different matter.
Click to expand...
You had me right up to the word coercive. Consenting adults should be free to engage in whatever type of consensual sex they mutually agree to do long as coercion of any kind is not involved. Not physical, not medical, political, psychological, intoxication related/adjacent: no coercion or sex without mutual, freely given consent. If money/facsimile/equivalent is exchanged, the minimum age for consent should be 25.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Ford said:
Rhea said:
Derec your comments about women and Harris in particular are disgusting.
Click to expand...
And for the record, I have a BMW. If you shop around and get a gently used one, you can drive a Beemer for the same or less than what some other "economy" cars are going for nowadays. I guess in Derec's mind I must have fucked someone to get mine.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that while you can get them pretty cheap you'll pay a lot more in maintenance.
Click to expand...
Mine had very low miles, so in the last 2 1/2 years it's been fine except for a minor oil leak. I found a local shop that's honest and very reasonable, but yeah...the joke about BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet" is based in reality.
 
ZiprHead said:
The parts tend to be a little more expensive but the quality is worth it. But they are not disturbingly so, unlike Porsches where a brake caliper can be $2000. The labor is the same as any other car, unless you go to the stealership. I've only been there once to have the defective Takata airbag replaced. Otherwise I go to local mechanics with no issues.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is working out which of the local mechanics have no issues.

;)
 
I lived on a very curvy mountain road, 30mph limit and down to 20 on curves. That thing outran muscle cars, Porsches, even a Lotus 7 one night … also made SLC to Reno (520mi) in 5hrs 10minutes including a quick breakfast stop.
 
Elixir said:
I lived on a very curvy mountain road, 30mph limit and down to 20 on curves. That thing outran muscle cars, Porsches, even a Lotus 7 one night … also made SLC to Reno (520mi) in 5hrs 10minutes including a quick breakfast stop.
Click to expand...
If you are averaging in excess of 100mph over a five hour journey, you should sell your car and send your licence back to Kellogg's, before you kill someone.
 
Toni said:
Elixir said:
ZiprHead said:
Derec said:
ZiprHead said:
I believe I am sticking to the issue.
Click to expand...
No you are not.
Is not the motivation for an opinion part of an issue? Would it be wrong to bring up a Christian's faith motivation while discussing their anti-abortion stance?
Click to expand...
Your claim of my motivation is erroneous. You also went after me personally, attacking my sex life.
Click to expand...
You brought your sex life into political discussions a long time ago. So you are allowed to use it to bolster your political opinions but we are not allowed to address it because it's personal? So is that how it works?
Click to expand...
I think so. Touchy subject though.
I agree with Derec that a person’s choice, forced or otherwise, to have exclusively transactional relationships with people of the opposite (or same, as the case may be) sex, should not be criminalized, even if it is based on a coercive discrepancy in physical resources. Whether it is fair game in a discussion about GOP idiots, is perhaps a different matter.
Click to expand...
You had me right up to the word coercive. Consenting adults should be free to engage in whatever type of consensual sex they mutually agree to do long as coercion of any kind is not involved. Not physical, not medical, political, psychological, intoxication related/adjacent: no coercion or sex without mutual, freely given consent. If money/facsimile/equivalent is exchanged, the minimum age for consent should be 25.
Click to expand...
I intentionally left that in there because coercion takes so many forms that trying to remove it from transactional sex -or ANY sex - is just not an option, period.
Hot chicks like rich guys.
Want to make that illegal?
When does enticement become coercion?

Trying to regulate overtly transactional sex is difficult enough. Physical coercion is called rape and is illegal. Medical coercion is malpractice. Etc etc

Monetary coercion however, is another animal. It is the way things are done at the bottom foundation of our society. People don’t show up to work at McDonald’s because it’s fun. Porn stars and prostitues don’t work for free either.
 
ZiprHead said:
Derec said:
ZiprHead said:
I believe I am sticking to the issue.
Click to expand...
No you are not.
Is not the motivation for an opinion part of an issue? Would it be wrong to bring up a Christian's faith motivation while discussing their anti-abortion stance?
Click to expand...
Your claim of my motivation is erroneous. You also went after me personally, attacking my sex life.
Click to expand...
You brought your sex life into political discussions a long time ago. So you are allowed to use it to bolster your political opinions but we are not allowed to address it because it's personal? So is that how it works?
Click to expand...
And let's be clear about one thing: Derec's criticism of Harris' relationship with Brown is entirely based on speculation on his part about what the relationship was all about. He thinks "women are entirely transactional and fuck their way to the top. Here's a woman I don't like because she's black, so obviously she fucked her way to the top." Also worth noting is that Derec hasn't made the same accusation about Harris' husband. Weird, huh? Here's a guy who married the then California Attorney General (arguably more powerful that the Mayor of SF), who then went onto be a US Senator and VP, but for some reason Derec isn't accusing Doug Emhoff of anything at all.

Oh...wait...he's a white guy.
 
bilby said:
ZiprHead said:
The parts tend to be a little more expensive but the quality is worth it. But they are not disturbingly so, unlike Porsches where a brake caliper can be $2000. The labor is the same as any other car, unless you go to the stealership. I've only been there once to have the defective Takata airbag replaced. Otherwise I go to local mechanics with no issues.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is working out which of the local mechanics have no issues.

;)
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I tried two others before I settled on the one I've got. The first one was very expensive. I was told that going in but I hoped them being friends with my in laws I would get a little break. Nope. The next just seemed to be pretty shoddy. The one I use now I'm quite satisfied with and I would recommend them to anyone.
 
bilby said:
Elixir said:
I lived on a very curvy mountain road, 30mph limit and down to 20 on curves. That thing outran muscle cars, Porsches, even a Lotus 7 one night … also made SLC to Reno (520mi) in 5hrs 10minutes including a quick breakfast stop.
Click to expand...
If you are averaging in excess of 100mph over a five hour journey, you should sell your car and send your licence back to Kellogg's, before you kill someone.
Click to expand...
I plead teen age immortality complex!
Ok, I was 22 and should have known better.
Actually, the Salt Flats are quite conducive to going real fast. The beemer barely cruised above 120.
 
bilby said:
Elixir said:
I lived on a very curvy mountain road, 30mph limit and down to 20 on curves. That thing outran muscle cars, Porsches, even a Lotus 7 one night … also made SLC to Reno (520mi) in 5hrs 10minutes including a quick breakfast stop.
Click to expand...
If you are averaging in excess of 100mph over a five hour journey, you should sell your car and send your licence back to Kellogg's, before you kill someone.
Click to expand...
You don't understand the American West very well.
Back in the late 70s, my parents and I were driving across Wyoming with Mom's sister and husband.
My cousin, Stevie, was driving the Lincoln sedan (about the size of an office building).
Auntie was griping, "Why aren't you hurrying Stevie?" Stevie said, "Because when I push it over 110, the transmission does something weird." He stomped the gas, and as the car hit 120 it's transmission did start making a weird noise and downshifting for no apparent reason.
My aunt crossed her arms and told hubby, "We just bought this a year ago! Why won't it go? You're taking it back to the dealership as soon as we get home!"
Tom
 
Elixir said:
Toni said:
Elixir said:
ZiprHead said:
Derec said:
ZiprHead said:
I believe I am sticking to the issue.
Click to expand...
No you are not.
Is not the motivation for an opinion part of an issue? Would it be wrong to bring up a Christian's faith motivation while discussing their anti-abortion stance?
Click to expand...
Your claim of my motivation is erroneous. You also went after me personally, attacking my sex life.
Click to expand...
You brought your sex life into political discussions a long time ago. So you are allowed to use it to bolster your political opinions but we are not allowed to address it because it's personal? So is that how it works?
Click to expand...
I think so. Touchy subject though.
I agree with Derec that a person’s choice, forced or otherwise, to have exclusively transactional relationships with people of the opposite (or same, as the case may be) sex, should not be criminalized, even if it is based on a coercive discrepancy in physical resources. Whether it is fair game in a discussion about GOP idiots, is perhaps a different matter.
Click to expand...
You had me right up to the word coercive. Consenting adults should be free to engage in whatever type of consensual sex they mutually agree to do long as coercion of any kind is not involved. Not physical, not medical, political, psychological, intoxication related/adjacent: no coercion or sex without mutual, freely given consent. If money/facsimile/equivalent is exchanged, the minimum age for consent should be 25.
Click to expand...
I intentionally left that in there because coercion takes so many forms that trying to remove it from transactional sex -or ANY sex - is just not an option, period.
Hot chicks like rich guys.
Want to make that illegal?
When does enticement become coercion?

Trying to regulate overtly transactional sex is difficult enough. Physical coercion is called rape and is illegal. Medical coercion is malpractice. Etc etc

Monetary coercion however, is another animal. It is the way things are done at the bottom foundation of our society. People don’t show up to work at McDonald’s because it’s fun. Porn stars and prostitues don’t work for free either.
Click to expand...
It becomes coercion the second someone doesn’t want to proceed.

I want to have sex with some hot young thing and I offer $X and they agree—but then change their minds, even after I’ve paid $X already. If I try to press the point, not just convince with benign words but with force or threats or implied threats: it’s no longer consensual. Without consent, it’s rape. If they leave with my money without providing the agreed upon acts, that’s theft. But even if they took the money and withdrew their consent—for any reason, and if I insisted/forced the sex, that’s rape. Rape is much worse a crime than sex.

Sure, plenty of people will engage in all sorts of personal relationships because they think it will financially or materially benefit them. Financial reasons have always been part of the reasons to marry, or it seems these days, to not marry. Sex is most often but not always part of marriage. But even within marriage, either party may refuse sex at any time, for any reason, good or bad. To force sex, by physical force, threat of force/violence, or other types of threats: it’s rape.
 
Ford said:
ZiprHead said:
Derec said:
ZiprHead said:
I believe I am sticking to the issue.
Click to expand...
No you are not.
Is not the motivation for an opinion part of an issue? Would it be wrong to bring up a Christian's faith motivation while discussing their anti-abortion stance?
Click to expand...
Your claim of my motivation is erroneous. You also went after me personally, attacking my sex life.
Click to expand...
You brought your sex life into political discussions a long time ago. So you are allowed to use it to bolster your political opinions but we are not allowed to address it because it's personal? So is that how it works?
Click to expand...
And let's be clear about one thing: Derec's criticism of Harris' relationship with Brown is entirely based on speculation on his part about what the relationship was all about. He thinks "women are entirely transactional and fuck their way to the top. Here's a woman I don't like because she's black, so obviously she fucked her way to the top." Also worth noting is that Derec hasn't made the same accusation about Harris' husband. Weird, huh? Here's a guy who married the then California Attorney General (arguably more powerful that the Mayor of SF), who then went onto be a US Senator and VP, but for some reason Derec isn't accusing Doug Emhoff of anything at all.

Oh...wait...he's a white guy.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I don’t think that Derek would have felt differently if all parties had been white.
 
TomC said:
bilby said:
Elixir said:
I lived on a very curvy mountain road, 30mph limit and down to 20 on curves. That thing outran muscle cars, Porsches, even a Lotus 7 one night … also made SLC to Reno (520mi) in 5hrs 10minutes including a quick breakfast stop.
Click to expand...
If you are averaging in excess of 100mph over a five hour journey, you should sell your car and send your licence back to Kellogg's, before you kill someone.
Click to expand...
You don't understand the American West very well.
Back in the late 70s, my parents and I were driving across Wyoming with Mom's sister and husband.
My cousin, Stevie, was driving the Lincoln sedan (about the size of an office building).
Auntie was griping, "Why aren't you hurrying Stevie?" Stevie said, "Because when I push it over 110, the transmission does something weird." He stomped the gas, and as the car hit 120 it's transmission did start making a weird noise and downshifting for no apparent reason.
My aunt crossed her arms and told hubby, "We just bought this a year ago! Why won't it go? You're taking it back to the dealership as soon as we get home!"
Tom
Click to expand...

For some reason this reminds me of my old Triumph GT6. The car that took me from Michigan to New Mexico in four days back in early 1993. One day back then, I wound up chasing a Corvette down the freeway after he'd blown past me like I was standing still. I eventually pulled up alongside the 'Vette, gave him a nod, and then he took off again and left me in the dust.

I glanced down at the speedometer. I was doing a buck 30. Then I realized I was doing this in a 20 year old rickety British car, and very carefully lifted off the accelerator. It had this thing where about 80mph, it would start to...shimmy. But once you got above that it smoothed out, and 90mph and above was actually very nice.
 
Elixir said:
Toni said:
It becomes coercion the second someone doesn’t want to proceed.
Click to expand...
So most fast food workers are coerced?
Click to expand...

Sexually? No. So it’s not rape.

I spent a year of my life working in a ( very bad) mostly defunct chain steakhouse. I did not want to work there but it was better than the other choices I felt I had and I was unable at the time to find a better job. That was not rape, even though one boss asked me out, another used to regal me with his suspicions of his then wife’s motives for going to the gynecologist, I got grabbed by customers and nearly fired for jokingly discouraging the advances of a regular customer. And I felt compelled ( out of fear for my own safety) to threaten a coworker who outweighed me by at least 150 lbs with castration if he lad a finger on me when he started to insinuate something bad would happen to me if I were not nice to him. I had no intention of being backed into the freezer by that creep. My hours were cut in favor of the manager’s son ( prom was coming up and Billy needed money!), the managers made us clock out, locked us in and then screamed at us for an hour or more on a regular basis but no, I was not raped. I detested being there, barely earned enough money to cover rent and could not afford to eat every day. But I stayed there voluntarily. My job prospects were quite grim. But I was not held against my will. Against my better judgement?

Honestly, and with all due respect, your argument is the kind only made by people who have never had someone actually try to rape them. Which has happened to me. More than once. Each attempt was unsuccessful because my attacker was not expecting me to resist much less fight back.

My former job disgusted me and often infuriated me but that was absolutely nothing like being shoved to the ground and being told some guy was going to fuck me.

It is insulting to suggest such equivalency. And beneath you.
 
Toni said:
I spent a year of my life working in a ( very bad) mostly defunct chain steakhouse.
Click to expand...
I spent almost a year in a metalworking factory, exposed to chemicals and intense UV radiation. I didn’t want to do it and quit as soon as I could, but was coerced by circumstances.
ANYTHING THAT INVOLVES INVASION OF PHYSICAL SPACE, OR UNWANTED TOUCHING OF ANY KIND
is not “coercion”, it’s assault IMHO, and criminal. That it is commonplace is a travesty, but it is qualitatively different from prostitution, which is transactional.

Toni said:
It is insulting to suggest such equivalency. And beneath you.
Click to expand...
Uh, it is you suggesting equivalence by calling rape “coercion”. I am drawing the distinction.
 
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