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Roe v Wade is on deck

Elixir said:
Lion IRC said:
And yet there's an equally large cohort of people who have had the same experience and would think you 'awful and/or 'ignorant' for your opposite views on abortion.
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According to a poll conducted between your ears, one is to suppose?
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No. The poll results are in.
One man said his experience of being a father during pregnancy made him think X about abortion.
Another man - me - had the same experience of being a father during pregnancy and yet I think the opposite.

Even if relevant, the argument from anecdotes is a nil-all-draw at best. It's like saying only women should get to decide...as if there are no pro-life women.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Lion IRC said:
Playball40 said:
This video is horrifying.
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Yes. It really makes you think, doesn't it.
Life and death.
Hard to believe the abortion debate revolves around whether killing other human beings is or isn't OK
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This fails badly because abortion is being held to a higher standard than self defense. Women are being refused abortions in situations that would otherwise be considered justifiable homicide.
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I dont understand the connection to self-defence or homicide. Who else apart from the unborn baby needs defending from homicide?
 
Elixir said:
Lion IRC said:
Playball40 said:
This video is horrifying.
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Yes. It really makes you think, doesn't it.
Life and death.
Hard to believe the abortion debate revolves around whether killing other human beings is or isn't OK.
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It doesn’t. It revolves around a woman’s right to her own reproductive freedom.
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Yes. Its like I said...whether killing other human beings is or isn't OK. If you want to euphemistically apply the term 'reproductive freedom' that's fine.

Elixir said:
NOBODY Thinks killing a person is “OK”.
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Lots of people think exactly that.
(No...it's not a link to a Third Reich propaganda poster.)

Elixir said:
Some people think nearly invisible blobs of protoplasm are people. I grant them their right to that belief. I don’t believe that, I think it’s stupid and counterfactual except by the most extreme contortions of definition.
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Do my eyes deceive me or are you agreeing that late term abortions should be banned? Because those aren't invisible blobs of protoplasm. Would you agree to heartbeat bill abortion bans? An unborn baby with a heartbeat isn't an invisible blob of protoplasm.

Please don't tell me you're doing a Jimmy Higgins red herring.

Elixir said:
And I don’t acknowledge anyone else’s right to impose their beliefs upon my own.
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Democracy must be a real bummer for you hey?
 
Lion IRC said:
If you want to euphemistically apply the term 'reproductive freedom' that's fine.
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Eeeuw!
Once again, I will re-iterate:

NOBODY HERE SAYS KILLING PEOPLE IS OKAY. *

If you choose to equate yourself with a blob of slime (euphemistically lol) smaller than the period at the end of this sentence, that’s fine. I prefer to reserve the term “person” for sentient beings. By your definition, your god murders hundreds of millions -maybe billions of “people” every year.

* it is dishonest as hell (in Xtian parlance) to try to co-opt a definition and use it to impute intent, especially after having been corrected numerous times.
 
Lion IRC said:
Who else apart from the unborn baby needs defending from homicide?
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The pregnant woman who is denied life saving care. Duh.

When your "morality" leads you to completely disregard the rights of grown adult humans while rabidly defending unaware balls of human cells, your morality is broken.

When it leads you to fail to even notice their existence, it is positively evil.
 
Lion said:
Elixir said:
Some people think nearly invisible blobs of protoplasm are people. I grant them their right to that belief. I don’t believe that, I think it’s stupid and counterfactual except by the most extreme contortions of definition.
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Do my eyes deceive me or are you agreeing that late term abortions should be banned?
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You read the words correctly. Your incomprehension is rooted in your indoctrination to authority.
I don’t think public healthcare, including reproductive healthcare, should be the business of politicians or priests.
If you don’t like abortions, don’t have one or cause one. Lead by example.
 
Elixir said:
You read the words correctly. Your incomprehension is rooted in your indoctrination to authority.
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A person asks you to clarify what you mean precisely because they don't understand what your views are.
You said you don't think invisible blobs of protoplasm deserve a right to life and I asked you about unborn humans who clearly are NOT invisible blobs of protoplasm.

Elixir said:
I don’t think public healthcare, including reproductive healthcare, should be the business of politicians...
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I, on the other hand, think democracy is a good thing.
I think the people who PAY for public 'healthcare' should have a say in how that money is spent.
I think it's wrong to say to single moms, (and their babies,) your body, your choice, not my problem.

Elixir said:
If you don’t like abortions, don’t have one or cause one. Lead by example.
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Deal.
I'll agree not to have or cause an abortion in return for being allowed an opinion on the topic.

Now, let's do some other mind-your-own-business topic. Violence against women. Should I keep my nose out of other people's business when it comes to this social issue?
 
Lion IRC said:
You said you don't think invisible blobs of protoplasm deserve a right to life
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Ok, that’s enough. Stop putting words in people’s mouths, especially mine. It’s a sophomoric scumbag rhetorical trick, and you need to get over yourself.
I said I don’t think it’s any of the business of politicians or priests. I said nothing about the rights of your “people”. But I do acknowledge your right to life, and you are increasingly revealing your intellectual parity with them, so perhaps I should reconsider.
 
Don't be coy.
Do you or dont you think invisible blobs of protoplasm deserve a right to life - do you think they should be protected from early term abortion?

It's OK if you don't want to answer, I'll understand.

Same goes for the other question you dodged.

Do you think that late term abortions, (abortions where the unborn humans clearly are NOT invisible blobs of protoplasmhould,) be banned?
 
Lion IRC said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
I remember being pro-choice before going through the adjacency of pregnancy of my wife with our daughter. After that whole experience, I think one needs to be either dreadfully awful or blissfully ignorant to ever consider forcing a "pro-life" position on another.
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And yet there's an equally large cohort of people who have had the same experience and would think you 'awful and/or 'ignorant' for your opposite views on abortion.

So you haven't advanced the argument.

Jimmy Higgins said:
And as to pro-life, I've yet to see a single pro-preggers funding bill in a State Legislature, to support the women who are now pregnant that weren't ready for it, mentally, psychologically, professionally, or age-wise.
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Do my eyes deceive me or are you conceding that if such a funding bill were to be passed, you would agree to ban abortion in that same jurisdiction?

Are you authorized to bargain away the central pillar of the abortion-on-demand lobby?

Jimmy Higgins said:
So the "pro-life" movement go fuck itself.
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Genius argument.
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Well, no, there is NOT an equally large cohort who believe that conception ends all choice for a woman. Pro choice outnumber anti-abortion rights by a significant percentage.

But even if there were: a woman should have authority over her own body.
 
Toni said:
Pro choice outnumber anti-abortion rights by a significant percentage.
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If youre talking about the USA, I thought the majority of Americans opposed absolute, unlimited, no-questions-asked, abortion on demand all the way up to 36 weeks.

That is the abortion lobby's position is it not? Elective abortion on demand without any gestational age limit. That's what pro-choice means right?

I think you need to fact check your claim.
 
Lion IRC said:
That is the abortion lobby's position is it not?
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No, it is not. Insofar as it's even sensible to ascribe a single position to "the abortion lobby" as a whole*, that is a strawman.
Lion IRC said:
Elective abortion on demand without any gestational age limit. That's what pro-choice means right?
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Nope, wrong. Almost nobody supports abortions after 20 weeks, and most jurisdictions require additional medical approvals after 16 weeks.

I think you need to fact check your claim.







*It's not sensible; There's no singular "abortion lobby" with a common and un-nuanced goal that they universally share. As you could not avoid being aware, if you were even remotely qualified to hold a worthwhile opinion on the question.
 
Lion IRC said:
I thought the majority of Americans opposed absolute, unlimited, no-questions-asked, abortion on demand all the way up to 36 weeks.
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If you genuinely thought this, then the depth of your ignorance is even more staggeringly vast than I hitherto imagined it to be.
 
Lion IRC said:
Toni said:
Pro choice outnumber anti-abortion rights by a significant percentage.
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If youre talking about the USA, I thought the majority of Americans opposed absolute, unlimited, no-questions-asked, abortion on demand all the way up to 36 weeks.

That is the abortion lobby's position is it not? Elective abortion on demand without any gestational age limit. That's what pro-choice means right?

I think you need to fact check your claim.
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No. I also think you need to check your facts.
 
bilby said:
Lion IRC said:
I thought the majority of Americans opposed absolute, unlimited, no-questions-asked, abortion on demand all the way up to 36 weeks.
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If you genuinely thought this, then the depth of your ignorance is even more staggeringly vast than I hitherto imagined it to be.
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IMO it’s a religious mix of ignorance and self-righteousness that permits them to indulge in endless mendacity. I wonder if they pray for forgiveness after scrawling pages of fabrications in defense of what they have been told Jeebus wants.

It is really amusing to try to imagine the extent of their delusion, that makes them think people get knocked up just so they can carry a child until a week before their due date, then kill it for fun.
Yeah I’m sure that has happened. Maybe twice in the entire history of mankind. But let’s make a lot of women die from sepsis, just to make sure that baby isn’t viable. And ectopic pregnancy? Godswill. Let ‘em die.
That’s the “pro life” position.
 
Lion IRC said:
Don't be coy.
Do you or dont you think invisible blobs of protoplasm deserve a right to life
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WTF is that supposed to mean?

Anyone who thinks any non-sentient unit of biomass is equivalent to a person, is delusional. Period.

Whatthehell do you mean by “right” anyhow?
No, a blastocyst does not deserve any legislation or pronouncement from the pulpit to confer “rights” upon it.

You probably think their “right to life” needs to be legislated, mandated by the church and imposed upon other people, correct?
That’s just SICK.

Don’t be coy, Lion - Does god’s routine genocidal killing of millions of children every year bother you, yes or no?
 
Lion IRC said:
Elixir said:
Don’t be coy, Lion - Does god’s routine genocidal killing of millions of children every year bother you, yes or no?
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I don't think God does that so I'm not bothered.
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You might take a look at the number of babies who die in miscarriages every year. It's most of them.
Unborn children who die, but not because any human made the choice. If there is a God as you describe, He's the biggest abortionist ever.

Without a close second.
Tom
 
Toni said:
Lion IRC said:
Toni said:
Pro choice outnumber anti-abortion rights by a significant percentage.
Click to expand...

If youre talking about the USA, I thought the majority of Americans opposed absolute, unlimited, no-questions-asked, abortion on demand all the way up to 36 weeks.

That is the abortion lobby's position is it not? Elective abortion on demand without any gestational age limit. That's what pro-choice means right?

I think you need to fact check your claim.
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No. I also think you need to check your facts.
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OK
Is Pew Research May 2022 sufficient for you?

According to them, only 19% say it should be legal on demand irrespective of gestational age.

That means the majority of Americans (surveyed) oppose absolute, unlimited, no-questions-asked, abortion on demand all the way up to 36 weeks.

PF_05.06.22_abortion.views_0_0.png
 
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