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The Biblical Flood Caused An Ice Age

Not even if God did a miracle?

It goes both ways. "GOD DID A MIRACLLLE" isn't going to convince someone who doesn't believe in miracles. Try again.
Well, those Darwin Devil worshipers can stick to their materialist illusion, and keep pretending that they don’t believe in their Creator!!! We know they do, and we know they won’t admit it for fear that they’ll lose their phony baloney jobs, preaching the false gospel of Science!

That’s not going to stop us from trying to save them from their damning folly, even if they have to be tortured to death to save them from eternal torture!
 
Try to imagine the mental somersaults you'd have to perform to believe that Genesis is good history. I'm related to a young earth creationist, and from time to time I hear some of the stuff she spouts. Because her reading is -- from everything she mentions -- confined to 'spiritual' writings, she doesn't come up against hard knocks. Her dad (my uncle) once said to me, with some bewilderment, "K____ thinks the earth is about 10,000 years old. She doesn't believe evolution happened." It follows that she wouldn't believe that our measurement of space is real, and that there could be galaxies sending us light from millions of years ago. And that cancels physics, which depends on our understanding of those measurements. Carbon dating? Whales once having limbs? Fake news! Of immense importance to her: the Shroud of Turin.
I never fail to vote, because I know she votes, too.
 
Not even if God did a miracle?

It goes both ways. "GOD DID A MIRACLLLE" isn't going to convince someone who doesn't believe in miracles. Try again.
"God did a miracle" isn't going to convince someone who understands logic and epistemology, either.

Miracles are neutral as regards events - that is, literally anything could be miraculous, including the opposite of anything you want to claim as miraculous. Therefore, miracles explain nothing; They are not an explanation, but rather are an attempt to excuse the lack of an explanation.

They are the cowards way of saying "I don't know"; They are also the bullies way of saying "I don't know, and I demand that you stop trying to find out, because I am determined never to know".

Scientists could not do effective work if a saboteur was meddling with their observations, methods, or results. The observation that science produces useful and reproducible results, that can be used to develop workable technologies, is proof that miracles do not occur.
 
They are the cowards way of saying "I don't know"; They are also the bullies way of saying "I don't know, and I demand that you stop trying to find out, because I am determined never to know".
You missed your vocation. You should have been a writer.
 
Not even if God did a miracle?

It goes both ways. "GOD DID A MIRACLLLE" isn't going to convince someone who doesn't believe in miracles. Try again.

If you're doing a critique of what the bible says took place, you have to accept that the biblical account includes the word God.

All you're saying is...the Noachian Flood never happened because there's no God to make it happen...and even if God does exist, He isn't clever enough or powerful enough to do stuff like that.

Thats not much of a counter-argument.
 
Ha! Same with the Quran, right?

You seem ignorant of the quranic references to Noah. (Same Noah. Same God. Same flood.)

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A mismatch comparison. Is there a Gotham City like there is a Jerusalem? Who is the Bart Erhman of the sacred DC texts? Perhaps it's you or one our other forum members engaging on this thread.😉
 

Most Americans in Abraham Lincoln's day were Christians. (Christians who didnt own slaves.) Why did Christian America vote to abolish slavery?

It’s simply astounding what ignorant nonsense you spew out. The slaveholders of the South were uniformly CHRISTIANS. They invoked THE BIBLE in defense of slavery. You know, the stupid story of Ham. Finally, neither CHRISTIANS, nor anyone else, “voted” to end slavery. It was partly ended by Abraham Lincoln in the Emancipation Proclamation, and later prohibited by Constitutional amendment by Congress that was then ratified by states, which was not a “vote of Christian America,” or any other particular Americans, to end slavery. Please stop disgracing yourself with your utter ignorance. It’s unseemly.
 
Not even if God did a miracle?

It goes both ways. "GOD DID A MIRACLLLE" isn't going to convince someone who doesn't believe in miracles. Try again.

If you're doing a critique of what the bible says took place, you have to accept that the biblical account includes the word God.

All you're saying is...the Noachian Flood never happened because there's no God to make it happen...and even if God does exist, He isn't clever enough or powerful enough to do stuff like that.

Thats not much of a counter-argument.
No, goddamnit, we are saying the Noachian flood never happened BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT IT DID, AND A TON OF EVIDENCE THAT IT DID NOT.

Can you please try to keep up with reality?
 

Can you please try to keep up with reality?
No.
Get over it. The godders are stuck, by and large.
Most of them try to keep up with reality only if something so horrific happens to them, that it defies anything they believe their god would ever allow, according to what they think god meant when He wrote the Bible.
 
I am late to the topic but I believe someone must have mentioned it. The universe is just 6,000 years old and the ice-age was older than 8,000 years everywhere (it was late in North America as I remember).
But then, Michael Oard is a retired gentleman. Some people face degeration in their old age.

@Elixir said: "That’s not going to stop us from trying to save them from their damning folly, even if they have to be tortured to death to save them from eternal torture!"
Aup: American Taliban.
 

Most Americans in Abraham Lincoln's day were Christians. (Christians who didnt own slaves.) Why did Christian America vote to abolish slavery?

It’s simply astounding what ignorant nonsense you spew out. The slaveholders of the South were uniformly CHRISTIANS. They invoked THE BIBLE in defense of slavery. You know, the stupid story of Ham. Finally, neither CHRISTIANS, nor anyone else, “voted” to end slavery. It was partly ended by Abraham Lincoln in the Emancipation Proclamation, and later prohibited by Constitutional amendment by Congress that was then ratified by states, which was not a “vote of Christian America,” or any other particular Americans, to end slavery. Please stop disgracing yourself with your utter ignorance. It’s unseemly.
PLus, after reading a very well researched book about Lincoln, it's very possible that he wasn't a Christian, although he usually pretended be one in order to get the support of the people. He was a doubter, at times doubting the existence of god, but from the time he was a child, he knew that slavery was an abomination. When he became president, he was determined to end it. He was far from perfect and there is evidence that he believed that white people were the superior race. In fact, once slavery ended, he thought the US should send the former slaves back to Africa, until a group of Black folks lead by Frederick Douglas insisted that the US was their country too and they had no intention of leaving. Lincoln was persuaded by Douglas, a brilliant man in his own right, who had plenty of doubts about the Christian religion too, although later in life, he did identify as one, although certainly not a hard core conservative one. Many of the female abolitionists he worked with were atheists, btw. I doubt many Christians know that either.

And, btw, a lovely, smart Black female acquaintance of mine told me that no matter how hard she has tried to believe there is truth in Christianity, she can't accept a religion that has used its holy book to justify slavery. She's agnostic regarding the possibility of gods. Christianity has been used to justify many horrible things, including punishing gay people. But, once again we are getting off topic and I promised myself I was done with this thread.
 
I get the same impression from my reading on Lincoln. He kept many of his thoughts private. From the reading he did, including controversial material like Leaves of Grass, it is hard to believe he was an orthodox Christian of the time. ( Whatever had occurred to estrange him from his father, Thomas Lincoln, that also remains unknowable.) As to white supremacy, he did make public pronouncements in the 1850s that read today like Klan materials -- never deviating from his antislavery stance, so far as I know, but stating that he didn't believe freed blacks could or should ever be in a position of equals to whites. The profound tragedy of war and the influence of Frederick Douglas must have changed him, but he was careful not to provoke public anger that might impede the Union cause. Since he was murdered five days after Appamattox, we'll never know how his perspective had changed or how instrumental he might have been in helping the freedmen.
 
In his youth, Lincoln wrote a tract against Christianity. His friends destroyed it, believing it would harm his political career.

Intimates said Lincoln did not believe in an after life.

His racial views are complicated, as like everyone he was a product of his time. But his stance against slavery was unwavering.

Lincoln hoped that freed slaves would VOLUNTARILY leave the country, because he believed — who can even now say he was wrong, in MAGAt America? — that they would never be accepted by the white majority. Toward the end of his life, under the influence of many, including Frederick Douglas, he abandoned this scheme. He embraced Douglas as a friend. In his last speech, he advocated suffrage for “very intelligent” black men and black veterans of the Civil War. John Wilkes Booth attended the speech, and resolved to kill Lincoln then and there, because of his advocacy of black suffrage. He then did in fact kill Lincoln, of course. And we ended up with odious racist Andrew Johnson as president. So it goes.
 
And he was estranged from his father because his father beat him and insisted he drop his “book-larnin’” and stick to a life as a farmer. Lincoln hated farming and aimed early on to be a great, even historic, figure.
 
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