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Will Biden drop out? Who replaces him?

I think the more progressive members of the party are supporting Biden at least in part because he had supported some of their progressive goals
Which ones?
There are several related to health care including lowering the price of Insulin to 35 bucks per month, making premiums more affordable for the Affordable Health Care programs and I'm pretty sure Medicaid was expanded, at least temporarily. While SCOTUS shot down Biden's attempt to forgive most student loans, Biden did accomplish getting a lot of student loans forgiven or lowered for those with lower income.
 
I couldn't finish the last post for some reason, so I'll try again. Biden also made some progress related to climate change, although considering the opposition party, he wasn't able to get everything he wanted done. All of these things are progressive, even if they aren't everything that the most progressive members of Congress wanted. I think members like AOC are starting to understand that progress doesn't happen over night. Oh, I forgot, birth control pills are now OTC too. I'm sure there is more, but these are a few that I recall. Biden is one of the more progressive presidents in my lifetime, and I think the smarter progressive members of Congress, including Bernie and AOC realize that, which is why they are supporting him, despite the recent debate fuck up.
 
What they want is a revolution.
I am told that these things happen in the course of human events. Sometimes violently, sometimes in a conference room. I prefer the latter. But nations must evolve and change. Complete national atrophy is neither possible nor desirable. Trump, who understands little, at least understands this. I do not understand why ths Democratic leadership does not. When Trump is setting up his new government, he will answer no calls from Nancy Pelosi no matter how many concessions and compromises she offers.
Sigh. I do understand that your generation and the ones younger are ready for a revolution. And you sound like you are not opposed to a violent revolution, if that's what it takes, although we both prefer non-violence.

Look at evolution in the biological world: change happens over time and change that happens over time is most likely to be sustained.

Change can also happen because of cataclysmic events such as volcanoes, earthquakes and meteor strikes. These tend to wipe out species, and isolate what survives. You seem to believe that this is inevitable and it may be but surely, we as a species should be evolving towards peace and cooperation.

I understand that this is an atheist sight but I cannot help but recall Mark 8 34-8 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

What I find extremely disturbing is that I see leftists becoming as willing as proud boys to take up arms in order to have their own version of nirvana.
 
I think the more progressive members of the party are supporting Biden at least in part because he had supported some of their progressive goals
Which ones?
There are several related to health care including lowering the price of Insulin to 35 bucks per month, making premiums more affordable for the Affordable Health Care programs and I'm pretty sure Medicaid was expanded, at least temporarily. While SCOTUS shot down Biden's attempt to forgive most student loans, Biden did accomplish getting a lot of student loans forgiven or lowered for those with lower income.
Of this list, the only thing I see on it that is actually a progressive cause is the forgiveness of student loan debt, which Biden mostly failed to accomplish despite the grandiose claims both his allies and his detractors make about the matter. Preserving the ACA and keeping all significant medical decisions in the hands of fully private insurance companies is a centrist Democrat/neoliberal cause, not a progressive cause. We want a modern healthcare system, available to all citizens, as the entire rest of the developed world enjoys.
 
I think the more progressive members of the party are supporting Biden at least in part because he had supported some of their progressive goals
Which ones?
There are several related to health care including lowering the price of Insulin to 35 bucks per month, making premiums more affordable for the Affordable Health Care programs and I'm pretty sure Medicaid was expanded, at least temporarily. While SCOTUS shot down Biden's attempt to forgive most student loans, Biden did accomplish getting a lot of student loans forgiven or lowered for those with lower income.
Of this list, the only thing I see on it that is actually a progressive cause is the forgiveness of student loan debt, which Biden mostly failed to accomplish despite the grandiose claims both his allies and his detractors make about the matter. Preserving the ACA and keeping all significant medical decisions in the hands of fully private insurance companies is a centrist Democrat/neoliberal cause, not a progressive cause. We want a modern healthcare system, available to all citizens, as the entire rest of the developed world enjoys.
We have a modern healthcare system. In many respects it is better and more modern than the NHS of Britain.

Universal good healthcare is an excellent goal. The USA needs to look at what works, what doesn’t, and fits within our culture and go from there.

Between Congressional foot dragging and legal obstacles, Biden has done pretty well on student loan forgiveness.
 
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I think the more progressive members of the party are supporting Biden at least in part because he had supported some of their progressive goals
Which ones?
There are several related to health care including lowering the price of Insulin to 35 bucks per month, making premiums more affordable for the Affordable Health Care programs and I'm pretty sure Medicaid was expanded, at least temporarily. While SCOTUS shot down Biden's attempt to forgive most student loans, Biden did accomplish getting a lot of student loans forgiven or lowered for those with lower income.
Of this list, the only thing I see on it that is actually a progressive cause is the forgiveness of student loan debt, which Biden mostly failed to accomplish despite the grandiose claims both his allies and his detractors make about the matter. Preserving the ACA and keeping all significant medical decisions in the hands of fully private insurance companies is a centrist Democrat/neoliberal cause, not a progressive cause. We want a modern healthcare system, available to all citizens, as the entire rest of the developed world enjoys.
We have a modern healthcare system. In many respects it is better and more modern than the NHS of Britain.

Universal good healthcare is an excellent goal. The USA needs to look at what works, what doesn’t, and fits within our culture and go from there.

Between Congressional foot dragging and legal obstacles, Biden has done pretty well on student loan forgiveness.
This is a pretty good summary of the Centrist Democrat position on these issues. But we were discussing Biden's struggle to control his progressive wing, not what liberals think progressives ought to believe. Obviously, if all the progressives just stopped being progressives, that would solve the problem, but that is not a realistic hope.
 
I think the more progressive members of the party are supporting Biden at least in part because he had supported some of their progressive goals
Which ones?
There are several related to health care including lowering the price of Insulin to 35 bucks per month, making premiums more affordable for the Affordable Health Care programs and I'm pretty sure Medicaid was expanded, at least temporarily. While SCOTUS shot down Biden's attempt to forgive most student loans, Biden did accomplish getting a lot of student loans forgiven or lowered for those with lower income.
Of this list, the only thing I see on it that is actually a progressive cause is the forgiveness of student loan debt, which Biden mostly failed to accomplish despite the grandiose claims both his allies and his detractors make about the matter. Preserving the ACA and keeping all significant medical decisions in the hands of fully private insurance companies is a centrist Democrat/neoliberal cause, not a progressive cause. We want a modern healthcare system, available to all citizens, as the entire rest of the developed world enjoys.

He did accomplish a lot before the House fell to the Republicans in 2023. I don't fault Biden for having to work with Republicans to do what he could, but he has to work with a divided legislature, a hostile Supreme Court, and a powerful opposition party that is thoroughly under the control of Donald Trump. He would have completely eliminated the student loan problem, if he had had it in his power, but he has done pretty much everything he could under those circumstances. Biden has not been a perfect president, but he has been one of the most successful in recent memory, given what he has had to work with. A lot of his success wasn't just accomplished by him, but by the administration that he put in place. Even the most popular, charismatic liberal can fail to get much done, if he or she fails to hire decent administrators to manage the agenda.

Despite my strong wish for Biden to step aside, I will still support his candidacy over Donald Trump any day. It will just be much harder now than it should be, and I fear that he is going to be responsible for getting Donald Trump back into the White House. Joe Biden should be able to run on his record, but he is now going to be running on his ability to talk about it coherently in front of a camera.
 


CDN media
 
I think the more progressive members of the party are supporting Biden at least in part because he had supported some of their progressive goals
Which ones?
There are several related to health care including lowering the price of Insulin to 35 bucks per month, making premiums more affordable for the Affordable Health Care programs and I'm pretty sure Medicaid was expanded, at least temporarily. While SCOTUS shot down Biden's attempt to forgive most student loans, Biden did accomplish getting a lot of student loans forgiven or lowered for those with lower income.
Of this list, the only thing I see on it that is actually a progressive cause is the forgiveness of student loan debt, which Biden mostly failed to accomplish despite the grandiose claims both his allies and his detractors make about the matter. Preserving the ACA and keeping all significant medical decisions in the hands of fully private insurance companies is a centrist Democrat/neoliberal cause, not a progressive cause. We want a modern healthcare system, available to all citizens, as the entire rest of the developed world enjoys.
We have a modern healthcare system. In many respects it is better and more modern than the NHS of Britain.

Universal good healthcare is an excellent goal. The USA needs to look at what works, what doesn’t, and fits within our culture and go from there.

Between Congressional foot dragging and legal obstacles, Biden has done pretty well on student loan forgiveness.
This is a pretty good summary of the Centrist Democrat position on these issues. But we were discussing Biden's struggle to control his progressive wing, not what liberals think progressives ought to believe. Obviously, if all the progressives just stopped being progressives, that would solve the problem, but that is not a realistic hope.
No, I think you have it wrong: Biden seems to make no move to co trim the progressives. He or rather, they since Congress legislated, struggle to pass the more progressive agenda items many/most of which I want to see as well.

For 2024, we have two very stark choices: Biden or Trump. It’s not much of a dilemma.
 
For 2024, we have two very stark choices: Biden or Trump. It’s not much of a dilemma.
Yeah, that's been Biden's only campaign slogan or promise this whole time. How's that working out for him right now? Any marketing person could tell you, you need more than "It's not Pepsi" to sell someone a Coke.
 
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What they want is a revolution.
I am told that these things happen in the course of human events. Sometimes violently, sometimes in a conference room. I prefer the latter. But nations must evolve and change. Complete national atrophy is neither possible nor desirable. Trump, who understands little, at least understands this. I do not understand why ths Democratic leadership does not. When Trump is setting up his new government, he will answer no calls from Nancy Pelosi no matter how many concessions and compromises she offers.
Sigh. I do understand that your generation and the ones younger are ready for a revolution. And you sound like you are not opposed to a violent revolution, if that's what it takes, although we both prefer non-violence.

Look at evolution in the biological world: change happens over time and change that happens over time is most likely to be sustained.

Change can also happen because of cataclysmic events such as volcanoes, earthquakes and meteor strikes. These tend to wipe out species, and isolate what survives. You seem to believe that this is inevitable and it may be but surely, we as a species should be evolving towards peace and cooperation.

I understand that this is an atheist sight but I cannot help but recall Mark 8 34-8 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

What I find extremely disturbing is that I see leftists becoming as willing as proud boys to take up arms in order to have their own version of nirvana.
Part of the reason the right has been so emboldened is because the left is perceived, and rightly so, as a bunch of weak, pacifist do nothings unwilling to defend themselves.

The attitude of "Oh well, I guess this is the way it is now" should this country fall to authoritarianism makes me sick. What good are progressive ideals if the advocates for those ideals are going to lay down and accept the boot stomping?

There is this delusion that if Trump gets back into the White House that there will be legitimate elections in the future.

I'll say one thing for these slack jawed ignoramuses and religious zealots: they'll give everything they have for their cause. Meanwhile the young American left is foaming at the mouth over innocuous statements by J.K. Rowling.

Maybe it's the old man in me talking, but the young people in this nation are as fucking soft as baby shit. Highly idealistic, but at least they'll be safe when the government doesn't come for their guns because they don't have any.
 
For 2024, we have two very stark choices: Biden or Trump. It’s not much of a dilemma.
Yeah, that's been Biden's only campaign slogan or promise this whole time. How's that working out for him right now? Any marketing person could tell you, you need more than "It's not Pepsi" to sell someone a Coke.
Realistically speaking, what do you see as our choices?

Personally I feel that the choice between democracy and Trump is pretty compelling.

But if that’s not enough for you, Biden can claim an impressive list of accomplishments putlin d here:


Certainly imperfect but Lee in mind the very narrow Senate margin and the minority in the House.

I get your frustration but: What’s your plan?
 
Realistically speaking, what do you see as our choices?
"You have no choice" is also a pretty uninspiring campaign slogan.

Despite what you may think, I do (strongly) want Biden to win. I just don't think he's going to, and I'm furious with the Democrats for managing to somehow lose an election to Donald J. Trump, one of the most unpopular presidents in American history and now a literal felon. Winning this election should have been child's play, but they have unbelievably bungled it, and we all stand to lose catastrophically as a result.
 
I get your frustration but: What’s your plan?
Civil disobedience. Pick up where we left off. The Court is lost beyond hope, the Senate probably will be for at least two years, but the president still needs his various executive agencies to enact his "policies"/Tweets. We government workers can just refuse to follow any of his Tweets. The common citizen can refuse to look the other ways when the arrests and warrantless raids resume. All of us can refuse to surrender the vote, or our right to a jury. This worked somewhat during his first term, and it will be our only real weapon remaining in his second. There is little left in our corner.
 
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Realistically speaking, what do you see as our choices?
"You have no choice" is also a pretty uninspiring campaign slogan.

Despite what you may think, I do (strongly) want Biden to win. I just don't think he's going to, and I'm furious with the Democrats for managing to somehow lose an election to Donald J. Trump, one of the most unpopular presidents in American history and now a literal felon. Winning this election should have been child's play, but they have unbelievably bungled it, and we all stand to lose catastrophically as a result.
I’m certain that you do very much want…Trump to lose.

Again I see the choice as being very stark: Biden or the end of our democracy. That’s a pretty big difference, imo.

Do you think Democrats calling for Biden to withdraw are helping us beat Trump? Helping Democrats gain the majority in the House and gain seats in the Senate?

I see this as very much akin to making progress in the scientific understanding of anything: mostly many baby steps over a long period of time, with an occasional huge discovery—and sometimes the big discovery being that what was once thought to be minor as an integral part of progress in understanding.

Democrats are willing to contemplate our navels and perhaps more frequently, our neighbor’s navels and to pick at things until they fall apart. Republicans are much less likely to engage in introspection and very much believe that the ends judtify the means and do not give a shot beyond the end of their noses or the depths of their pocketbooks.
 
I get your frustration but: What’s your plan?
Civil disobedience. Pick up where we left off. The Court is lost beyond hope, the Senate probably will be for at least two years, but the president still needs his various executive agencies to enact his "policies"/Tweets. We government workers can just refuse to follow any of his Tweets. The common citizen can refuse to look the other ways when the arrests and warrantless raids resume. All of us can refuse to surrender the vote, or our right to a jury. This worked somewhat during his first term, and it will be our only real weapon remaining in his second. There is little left in our corner.
If we can get a majority House and expand it in the Senate and re-elect Biden, we can expand the Supreme Court.
 
I get your frustration but: What’s your plan?
Civil disobedience. Pick up where we left off. The Court is lost beyond hope, the Senate probably will be for at least two years, but the president still needs his various executive agencies to enact his "policies"/Tweets. We government workers can just refuse to follow any of his Tweets. The common citizen can refuse to look the other ways when the arrests and warrantless raids resume. All of us can refuse to surrender the vote, or our right to a jury. This worked somewhat during his first term, and it will be our only real weapon remaining in his second. There is little left in our corner.
If we can get a majority House and expand it in the Senate and re-elect Biden, we can expand the Supreme Court.
The Democrats are no more likely to do that than they are to enact universal healthcare or grant statehood to Puerto Rico.
 
I think the more progressive members of the party are supporting Biden at least in part because he had supported some of their progressive goals
Which ones?
There are several related to health care including lowering the price of Insulin to 35 bucks per month, making premiums more affordable for the Affordable Health Care programs and I'm pretty sure Medicaid was expanded, at least temporarily. While SCOTUS shot down Biden's attempt to forgive most student loans, Biden did accomplish getting a lot of student loans forgiven or lowered for those with lower income.
Of this list, the only thing I see on it that is actually a progressive cause is the forgiveness of student loan debt, which Biden mostly failed to accomplish despite the grandiose claims both his allies and his detractors make about the matter. Preserving the ACA and keeping all significant medical decisions in the hands of fully private insurance companies is a centrist Democrat/neoliberal cause, not a progressive cause. We want a modern healthcare system, available to all citizens, as the entire rest of the developed world enjoys.
We have a modern healthcare system. In many respects it is better and more modern than the NHS of Britain.

Universal good healthcare is an excellent goal. The USA needs to look at what works, what doesn’t, and fits within our culture and go from there.

Between Congressional foot dragging and legal obstacles, Biden has done pretty well on student loan forgiveness.
This is a pretty good summary of the Centrist Democrat position on these issues. But we were discussing Biden's struggle to control his progressive wing, not what liberals think progressives ought to believe. Obviously, if all the progressives just stopped being progressives, that would solve the problem, but that is not a realistic hope.
It is a summary of reality when it comes to student loan forgiveness and our healthcare system. I doubt that progressives are supposed to be delusional. At least, I hope they are not.
 
Do you think Democrats calling for Biden to withdraw are helping us beat Trump?
No. They should have played hardball long ago. Trying to do it now is a disaster. I have said as much multiple times in this thread alone.

Let's not forget that this is not just about defeating Donald Trump. It is also about electing Democrats in downballot races. That is why so many House Democrats are calling for him to resign. They need someone at the top of the ticket who can support them rather than them having to support him. It is hard enough to motivate Democratic voters to cast ballots at all, let alone for someone who is just not the worst candidate.
 
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