thebeave
Contributor
Oh brother, these puns are getting out of control. I will give you a thumbs up on that one, but that's it for a while.
That raises the question: how deeply psychotic would Trump's statements have to be, to trigger the 25th? He's telling his rally crowds this week that American kids come home from school having been put through gender reassignment surgery -- without the parents' consent. This is barking mad, but he's still their boy. (And he's already in diapers, remember.)How quickly will Vance and the cabinet 25th amendment Trump and boot him out? It’s not like it’d be hard to make the case he’s mentally unfit it they chose to go all in.
I can't think of many scenarios that would convince his base that he's lost it. Maybe if he came out on stage and said, "What the hell is wrong with this country? We've got to get back to the pre-Reagan marginal tax rates, folks. Otherwise we'll never climb out of debt. And we've got to reinstate all the sections of the 1965 Voting Rights Act, because, as many people are saying, we need everyone to have a voice. And it's madness to sell combat weapons as collector's items, folks. Madness."
That, I think, would get him institutionalized.
by what mechanism would they “end voting”?They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that.
The usual method is not to end voting, but to instead permit only approved candidates on the ballot.by what mechanism would they “end voting”?They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that.
sure, but how exactly would that be done? within the system that the US currently has, by what means would they exclude candidates. There's a lot of hypothetical talk about this, but the US still has a legal system that doesn't change quickly, so I am curious by what actual means this would happen.The usual method is not to end voting, but to instead permit only approved candidates on the ballot.by what mechanism would they “end voting”?They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that.
Once voting is thus rendered meaningless it will wither away on its own.
Simply don't count the ballots.by what mechanism would they “end voting”?They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that.
And how would Trump convince all the state governments to not count the ballots?Simply don't count the ballots.by what mechanism would they “end voting”?They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that.
It's not that far fetched. There are a few scenarios. He can declare voter fraud. Say the radical leftists are plotting against him and send in the FBI to investigate and make arrests of election officials for supposed fraud. He could also invoke the insurrection act and quell any protests with the national guard or even the military. Create maximum confusion and uncertainty and claim indefinite "investigations". Every possible conspiracy theory he can spin up will be believed by at least 40% of the country, and that 40% will have control of all branches of government: the Supreme Court, the presidency, the senate (almost guaranteed republician majority or split with JD tie break), and high probability house goes to him as well.And how would Trump convince all the state governments to not count the ballots?Simply don't count the ballots.by what mechanism would they “end voting”?They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that.
If there are only stupid answers to this question then I’m not particularly worried about this coming to pass.
Or, he could employ the same tactic he tried with Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, only this time with a credible threat of having the person in charge of a state's election arrested by the military police as a "dangerous Leftist" if s/he doesn't "find" the votes Trump wants included in the official tally. Granted, it's not convincing states to not count ballots at all, but it is a deliberate miscount with the same end result.It's not that far fetched. There are a few scenarios. He can declare voter fraud. Say the radical leftists are plotting against him and send in the FBI to investigate and make arrests of election officials for supposed fraud. He could also invoke the insurrection act and quell any protests with the national guard or even the military. Create maximum confusion and uncertainty and claim indefinite "investigations". Every possible conspiracy theory he can spin up will be believed by at least 40% of the country, and that 40% will have control of all branches of government: the Supreme Court, the presidency, the senate (almost guaranteed republician majority or split with JD tie break), and high probability house goes to him as well.And how would Trump convince all the state governments to not count the ballots?Simply don't count the ballots.by what mechanism would they “end voting”?They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that.
If there are only stupid answers to this question then I’m not particularly worried about this coming to pass.
"It is emphatically the province of the judicial department to say what the law is." Marbury vs. Madison (1803).by what mechanism would they “end voting”?They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that.
They wouldn't 25th Amendment him. They'd just let him be who he is, end voting, and that'll be that. Fundies in positions of power don't care who Trump is. It's not about consistency or upholding their interpretation of their holy book. Trump is their catalyst to install a religious theocracy or least as close as they can get to it, which is more possible than most people understand.
It takes only a relatively small portion of any population to effectively carry out authoritarian polices. History shows this time and time again.
sure, but how exactly would that be done? within the system that the US currently has, by what means would they exclude candidates. There's a lot of hypothetical talk about this, but the US still has a legal system that doesn't change quickly, so I am curious by what actual means this would happen.Once voting is thus rendered meaningless it will wither away on its own.
If they wanted only Republican candidates to win all elections, how would they keep Democrats and members of other parties off the various State ballots?
If there's no real mechanism possible here, then all this talk is simply a scare tactic.
In the USA, the federal government doesn’t run the elections though. The states do. So, in this scenario, I am to believe that federal agents will be going to the states and arresting state officials that run elections? This is happening at the county level?
And are the feds doing this with warrants and grand juries?
I am to assume that the corruption is already so nearly complete that the installation of Trump will bring down the whole system? We’ve already seen even Trump-appointed judges go against him. Do we expect the military will gladly become Trump’s hit squad? Is that how all the current leaders feel? Or are they more likely to follow Milley’s lead?
I can see how you all can imagine it but it requires a corruption so vast that I don’t see it. At least half the government is not a Trump follower
As counter-intuitive as it sounds, the military gets a vote on this. Trump might not put any Mark Milley's on his staff, but he can't replace the whole chain of command. And he doesn't have as many 'loyalists' in the military as he thinks he has, not after how he disparaged it time and again. My graduating class is now O-6 or above and most can't stand him. Even the one's who 'wouldn't mind if he was president' would never follow an order pitting them against the US citizenry.
aa
And there's a big difference between obeying an order to attack citizens, and obeying an order to attack domestic terrorists. An officer could easily be swayed to do the latter - even if it is only the choice of words that is different.As counter-intuitive as it sounds, the military gets a vote on this. Trump might not put any Mark Milley's on his staff, but he can't replace the whole chain of command. And he doesn't have as many 'loyalists' in the military as he thinks he has, not after how he disparaged it time and again. My graduating class is now O-6 or above and most can't stand him. Even the one's who 'wouldn't mind if he was president' would never follow an order pitting them against the US citizenry.
aa
I am not confident that individual soldiers will disobey orders that they suspect aren't totally legal. The military is a top-down organization. They go where they are told to go and do what they are told to do. They may not like their leaders, but obedience is drilled into them.