It's the easy option. To see past the disinformation takes work. Same reason we elected The Felon. It was notable when some of the big papers didn't endorse Harris out of fear. It is completely normal for the world press to not report honestly from Gaza out of fear.
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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel
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But the keys must be under the Israeli streetlight! At this point removing the Iranian influence is impossible. And people don't like to accept that something is impossible.
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If you focused on the context of what I’m saying, you’d see that I’ve clearly explained how Hamas contributes to civilian deaths. I’m not discussing what you assume I am. I understand why you might make this mistake, as the complex dynamics between Israel and Gaza appear overly simple to you.
I don't understand. You're objecting to the harm Israel is causing which would imply you think there's some better path.
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Be specific what am I objecting to?
Edit: With a quote please, your word is not enough.
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laughing dog
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If you don’t understand a post, just ask for clarification instead of flinging a baseless accusation.
DrZoidberg
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Lol "emotional rhetoric". Yes, I must be an overly emotional fop unable to control myself or see things objectively. Perhaps you think I am a weak minded woman?
I suggest trying to sound less patronising in the future
DrZoidberg
Contributor
You didn't bother googling this, did you?
Two examples
From the river to the sea - Wikipedia
Calls for the destruction of Israel - Wikipedia
Leftists are continually bending over backwards to reinterpret the Palestinians litteral words in very creative ways. There is absolutely zero political movement in Palestine to live in peace with Jews.
Arabs who live within Israel are just keeping their heads down and mouths shut, because they don't want to be seen as pro-Israel. But they are of course extremely well aware they're the population of Arabs in the Middle-East with the most personal freedoms and the most legal protection. They're better treated by their (Israeli) government than Arabs are treated in any "Arab" or "Muslim" country.
Arabs are deeply conservative and do not care about freedom or security. It's more imortant to them to be seen by their neighbours as good Muslims, than anything else. It makes it increadibly difficult to have reasonable conversations. Currently Islam is a ideological steamroller.
Worth noting is that there is a international movement to liberalise Islam, (the kind of shift that both Christianity and Judaism have gone through). But it only has traction among the tiny educated middle classes. As the Middle-East gets their act together, becomes stable, the middle class will expand and Islam will liberalise. But that's 30 - 50 years away. Right now we simply have to act what's available, and that means managing Islamic aggression, the best we can.
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
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Absolute statements are never true.
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You didn't bother googling this, did you?
Two examples
From the river to the sea - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Calls for the destruction of Israel - Wikipedia
Leftists are continually bending over backwards to reinterpret the Palestinians litteral words in very creative ways. There is absolutely zero political movement in Palestine to live in peace with Jews.
Arabs who live within Israel are just keeping their heads down and mouths shut, because they don't want to be seen as pro-Israel. But they are of course extremely well aware they're the population of Arabs in the Middle-East with the most personal freedoms and the most legal protection. They're better treated by their (Israeli) government than Arabs are treated in any "Arab" or "Muslim" country.
Arabs are deeply conservative and do not care about freedom or security. It's more imortant to them to be seen by their neighbours as good Muslims, than anything else. It makes it increadibly difficult to have reasonable conversations. Currently Islam is a ideological steamroller.
Worth noting is that there is a international movement to liberalise Islam, (the kind of shift that both Christianity and Judaism have gone through). But it only has traction among the tiny educated middle classes. As the Middle-East gets their act together, becomes stable, the middle class will expand and Islam will liberalise. But that's 30 - 50 years away. Right now we simply have to act what's available, and that means managing Islamic aggression, the best we can.
You've essentially repeated my argument but reframed it as though I said the opposite. You seem to agree that extremists must be addressed while simultaneously supporting efforts to 'liberalize Islam'. It's counterproductive to focus exclusively on extremist Islam, as it undermines and complicates the efforts of those working toward positive change. That's the core of my argument. You consistently imply that I fail to grasp the extremity of groups like Hamas, which is an unfounded assumption. Although it's an improvement, this is the first time you've said anything that genuinely acknowledges the humanity of people of the Muslim faith (again I'm not talking about Hamas here).
BTW, yes, yes, yes, I’ve said it countless times already: Hamas and extremism absolutely need to be addressed. I’m at my wits’ end with how deaf some of you seem to be on this.
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I don't care what other leftists say, and it's not my responsibility to defend positions I don't hold. Even if I wanted to, your statement is so vague and lacks citations that there's nothing substantive to engage with. Besides, what you've shared doesn't represent the views of every Palestinian, and you even acknowledge that in your own post.
As far as this goes
Considering everything, especially Hamas's extremism and the reality that there are Palestinians who can live peacefully alongside Israel, what relevance does the absence of a political movement have here? Based on your own statements, you essentially acknowledge that the current climate is not conducive to such movements. Ya know, the whole Arab's keeping their heads down thing. What’s needed is to encourage them to lift their heads and provide the support they need to hold them high. Letting Hamas dictate the narrative is not the right approach. Rhetoric that portrays all Palestinians as Hamas sympathizers, when many are not, only serves to strengthen Hamas' agenda.
Hamas: "They bomb your homes and take your land. Do you not see how little they care about your suffering? We are the ones who will stand and defend you!"
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Referring to people that live in Palestine as Palestinians dates back to 1898.
And all identities are manufactured.
And why is Iran going to permit success?
You seem to be blaming the IDF for the deaths. Yes, they pulled the trigger but Hamas set the situation up.
But that's just putting a label to a group that already existed. Calling people "Palestinian" is more akin to calling people "West Texans". The group is "Texan".
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Iran may never fully back down, but Israel can focus on forcing them to abandon using Gaza as a proxy. As I’ve emphasized countless times, the path forward lies in winning the trust and support of the Gazan people. By empowering those oppressed by Hamas and providing them with initial international aid—or even long-term support—the Gazans can establish self-governance. This would enable them to keep organizations like Hamas and external influences, including Iran, out of their territory. It won't be easy.
But you keep acting like it's something Israel can improve on.
And once again you respond with misdirection rather than addressing the point.
We have a simple question: is the suffering of the hostages (and there's basically no doubt they are suffering if they are alive) an attack on Israel?
The quote chain is enough to see what I'm asking, I didn't feel the need to spell it out.
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Ok let's try this. What words do you need me to type to confirm I am not doing this thing you keep saying I'm doing. We need to get past this somehow.
Jimmy Higgins
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Holding hostages isn't a "daily attack".