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California Doing California Things

what she did just challenged the buses ignoring the "equal" part of "separate but equal".
Nitpick - the buses weren't to blame, it was the bus drivers who were routinely flouting the "equal" part.

I know a lot of buses, and have yet to meet one that was a racist. ;)
 
Yes, I'm quite familiar with you caring more whether what you say is effective rhetoric than whether it's true; what I was aiming for was to make sure others are quite familiar with that too.
But he means well. 🙄
I’ve been pleading with him to try to restrain the torture treatment of others’ statements to attribute ridiculous extreme opinions to his “opponents” in discussion, turning every discussion into a debate over the merits of leftist extremism over realism.
No luck so far. I wish you better outcomes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s not go full extreme here. I can ease up a bit, sure, but to quit attributing ridiculous opinions to opponents entirely? That's a big ask.
So, you're saying you support cannibalism?

;)
 
what she did just challenged the buses ignoring the "equal" part of "separate but equal".
Nitpick - the buses weren't to blame, it was the bus drivers who were routinely flouting the "equal" part.

I know a lot of buses, and have yet to meet one that was a racist. ;)
Speaking of the bus, you know where the bus itself is now? It's an exhibit at the Ford Museum. Yeah, you heard that right, Nazi sympathizer money keeps its chrome shiny these days. Irony, thy name is philanthropy.
 
Yes, I'm quite familiar with you caring more whether what you say is effective rhetoric than whether it's true; what I was aiming for was to make sure others are quite familiar with that too.
But he means well. 🙄
I’ve been pleading with him to try to restrain the torture treatment of others’ statements to attribute ridiculous extreme opinions to his “opponents” in discussion, turning every discussion into a debate over the merits of leftist extremism over realism.
No luck so far. I wish you better outcomes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s not go full extreme here. I can ease up a bit, sure, but to quit attributing ridiculous opinions to opponents entirely? That's a big ask.
So, you're saying you support cannibalism?

;)
Only when he’s hungry obviously. 🙄
 
what she did just challenged the buses ignoring the "equal" part of "separate but equal".
Nitpick - the buses weren't to blame, it was the bus drivers who were routinely flouting the "equal" part.

I know a lot of buses, and have yet to meet one that was a racist. ;)
Speaking of the bus, you know where the bus itself is now? It's an exhibit at the Ford Museum. Yeah, you heard that right, Nazi sympathizer money keeps its chrome shiny these days. Irony, thy name is philanthropy.

That’s not the flex they think it is. That’s like framing a court ruling against you and calling it a trophy.
 
Right? Last time I was there, there was an entire exhibit built all around it on the History of American Freedom. A bust of George Washington decorated one side of a wall with a quote from Sojourner Truth on the other. One cannot help but suppress a sniffle at their piety for the American dream...
 
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Yes, I'm quite familiar with you caring more whether what you say is effective rhetoric than whether it's true; what I was aiming for was to make sure others are quite familiar with that too.
But he means well. 🙄
I’ve been pleading with him to try to restrain the torture treatment of others’ statements to attribute ridiculous extreme opinions to his “opponents” in discussion, turning every discussion into a debate over the merits of leftist extremism over realism.
No luck so far. I wish you better outcomes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s not go full extreme here. I can ease up a bit, sure, but to quit attributing ridiculous opinions to opponents entirely? That's a big ask.
So, you're saying you support cannibalism?

;)
Only when he’s hungry obviously. 🙄
"You're not yourself when you're hungry."TM
 
Yes, I'm quite familiar with you caring more whether what you say is effective rhetoric than whether it's true; what I was aiming for was to make sure others are quite familiar with that too.
But he means well. 🙄
I’ve been pleading with him to try to restrain the torture treatment of others’ statements to attribute ridiculous extreme opinions to his “opponents” in discussion, turning every discussion into a debate over the merits of leftist extremism over realism.
No luck so far. I wish you better outcomes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s not go full extreme here. I can ease up a bit, sure, but to quit attributing ridiculous opinions to opponents entirely? That's a big ask.
So, you're saying you support cannibalism?

;)
Only when he’s hungry obviously. 🙄

Alright, I’ll bite on this derail for a second. My real name’s Howard, but my family calls me Howie, and when I get hungry, I'm easily irritated. My family uses Hungry Howie (yes, like the pizza chain) when I'm like that. Here's why, I actually used to work at Hungry Howie’s. Management and coworkers thought my name was the funniest thing in the world, so I got bombarded with jokes every shift. It was annoying, but I knew what I was signing up for. One day though, I was hungry AF, and after hearing one too many 'Hungry Howie' cracks, I snapped. I took my last delivery, went straight to my car, ate it, walked back in, tossed down an overpayment, and quit on the spot. Never looked back, never even picked up my last paycheck. If it’s still floating around, it’s probably sitting in Florida’s unclaimed funds if anything. Never looked back. So yeah, this whole derail got a little personal. Not in the 'I’m secretly a cannibal' kind of personal, just… personal.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention, I was fully aware that little stunt would lock me in as ‘Hungry Howie’ in their minds forever.
 
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It was, however, what she demanded.
She got what she demanded because it was a single click on the ratchet. Why can’t you see that?
Wrong. She demanded full and equal rights, and she was right to do so. What she got was several clicks (as well a jail sentence, a 14 dollar fine, and riots in Louisiana).
She demanded something society was close to the tipping point on. A lot of people liked it but didn't want to be out in front. She got in front, a lot of people got behind her and it worked.
 
I will say that in my town, a number of older homes in need og fixing up ( aka cheap) are being bought up and turned into Air bnbs. I am not a fan because too many families are already stuck in cramped apartments. In the case of my town, it is less outside big spenders than it is a greedy little sob who grew up around the corner from me and his mom speculating in real estate. Again, not a fan.
People who speculate tend to get burned. And note that they were houses needing fixing up--which says most people didn't consider it economic to fix them up. In the long run a good thing for the neighborhood.
 
The trouble is, this market situation screws over any landlord who only has one or a few units. Theoretical diversifiability doesn't make him actually diversified -- he doesn't own enough units for that. So the ordinance in effect orders him to sell a high-risk-to-him option for the low-risk price. So it reverses the comparative advantage. In a free market for rentals the small landlord has a comparative advantage over the giant corporation. He's intimately familiar with the local housing market, he can make repairs himself or else knows who will do them at the best price, and he knows his tenants personally. But require him to give tenants an option on extending their stays and the giant corporation has the comparative advantage. Now the economically rational move for the small owner is to sell out to the giant corporation.
B - I can't find support of this, not that it's my job to do so. Got an LAHD link?
This is a totally obvious effect.
What you quoted from my post isn't what Tacc said he couldn't find support of. He was talking about my claim that in Los Angeles "if you want to sell somebody one-year occupation of your property, you're required to throw in an option for much longer occupation." He was quite right to challenge me to back that claim up. (So I did.)

As far as what you quoted being obvious goes, if that's obvious to you you must be a lot smarter than me. None of this was covered in Econ 101; I only know it because at an electronics company I used to work for one of the other engineers had taken a portfolio theory class, where he'd learned all about risk correlations and option price theory, which he only told the rest of us about because the company sold us stock at a discount so we'd have an incentive to care about profits, so he was explaining why we'd be wise to all sell it right away. Which is to say, I only know this stuff at all because of dumb luck.
Obvious in that the heart of the insurance industry is averaging out random risk and the response is big players. Same thing happens with any other market with substantial random risk. (But not markets with systematic risk: that's why insurance companies don't like floods, hurricanes, and earthquakes.) I had already pointed out one of the increased risks (greater harm from a bad tenant) driving it to larger players, you pointed out another that would have the same effect.
 
It was, however, what she demanded.
She got what she demanded because it was a single click on the ratchet. Why can’t you see that?
Wrong. She demanded full and equal rights, and she was right to do so. What she got was several clicks (as well a jail sentence, a 14 dollar fine, and riots in Louisiana).
She demanded something society was close to the tipping point on. A lot of people liked it but didn't want to be out in front. She got in front, a lot of people got behind her and it worked.
Your take on history has nothing to do with what actually happened, either before or after the Boycott. The country eventually changed a bit culturally, and Park's reputation within liberal circles has undergone hagiographic reformation into a civil rights hero. Deservedly, in my opinion. But the white population of 1952 Montgomery Alabama was not by any stretch of the imagination "close to the tipping point" of racial equality or any form of voluntary desegregation. Most people were angry as hell, and Parks was not treated with any leniency whatsoever. As the controversy continued, the ranks of the countermovement known as the White Citizen's Council more than doubled. Over the course of the next year, violence intensified and there were at least six bombings within the city aimed at the protestors. Riots spurred by Parks' arrest left even other American cities, notably New Orleans, in flames. It wasn't just Parks who wound up in jail, more than 800 community organizers were indicted and submitted themselves for arrest. The Black community of Montgomery, of course, was in a different situation, but even among Black Alabamans, there was much dispute about the best course of action, and it took extraordinary talent and perserverance for ED Nixon, Jo Ann Robinson, Martin Luther King Jr, Ralph Abernathy and many others to keep the Boycott together long enough for the Supreme Court to step in and force the city of Montgomery to cave.

I think you've invented a storybook history based on what you want to believe - your parents' generation weren't really that racist, Blacks were always going to be "granted" rights eventually no matter what they did, and all it took was a few rousing speeches at the Lincoln Memorial to get the whole country singing Kumbayah and embracing a multiracial future. But that isn't what happened, nor could our present situation of rising racial animus and recriminatory violence possibly have been derived from such a lah-dee-dah past.

I realize you are likely uninterested in cracking your own paradigm, but if anyone else here is interested in learning more about Parks, the Boycott, and Browder v Gale, I highly recommend J. Mills Thornton's 2002 book, Dividing Lines, about a third of which is dedicated to exploring the situation in Montgomery (he also covers Selma and Birminghsm, equally well). Jo Ann Robinson's memoir (she effectively launched the Boycott by widely distributing the news of Parks' arrest) is well worth a read.
 
You have not demonstrated that this is in any way a cause, it sounds like more of the rich = automatically evil position.

Bruh, Wall Street’s influence on California housing isn’t the sole driver (the cause as you put it), but in many markets, where they buy, everyone else sees prices rise. About 19% of homes in California are investor-owned, with rural and tourist counties showing highs of 60–80%; even coastal counties like LA and San Francisco hover around 15–17% (The Guardian, SF Gate).

Not saying Wall Street is the cause (as you put it), but pretending they don’t distort markets, especially where they cluster, is ignoring reality. You really think building more homes (which California really needs and is the main issue) will stop Wall Street, with their cheap money and armies of lawyers? Investors absolutely do purchase newly built homes, and by concentrating in certain markets, they reduce homeownership opportunities and raise both home prices and rents. I don’t have an issue with individual homeowners flipping or renting, that’s a service to their community. The problem is when corporate giants hoard properties, outbid families, and treat shelter like a speculative asset, artificially driving up prices for profit.

Edit: Btw I'm sick of you always demanding people to demonstrate anything when you haven't demonstrated shit in the last decade.
But you're not demonstrating anything here, just automatic Wall Street = evil. Wall Street operates on a bigger scale than the individuals but that doesn't change the basic economics. Which, as you say, is driven by a lack of construction. Wall Street gains nothing from interfering with construction, they're not the ones doing it. Wall Street snaps up bargains, but that doesn't raise the basic price.
 
It was, however, what she demanded.
She got what she demanded because it was a single click on the ratchet. Why can’t you see that?
Wrong. She demanded full and equal rights, and she was right to do so. What she got was several clicks (as well a jail sentence, a 14 dollar fine, and riots in Louisiana).
She demanded something society was close to the tipping point on. A lot of people liked it but didn't want to be out in front. She got in front, a lot of people got behind her and it worked.
Your take on history has nothing to do with what actually happened, either before or after the Boycott. The country eventually changed a bit culturally, and Park's reputation within liberal circles has undergone hagiographic reformation into a civil rights hero. Deservedly, in my opinion. But the white population of 1952 Montgomery Alabama was not by any stretch of the imagination "close to the tipping point" of racial equality or any form of voluntary desegregation. Most people were angry as hell, and Parks was not treated with any leniency whatsoever. As the controversy continued, the ranks of the countermovement known as the White Citizen's Council more than doubled. Over the course of the next year, violence intensified and there were at least six bombings within the city aimed at the protestors. Riots spurred by Parks' arrest left even other American cities, notably New Orleans, in flames. It wasn't just Parks who wound up in jail, more than 800 community organizers were indicted and submitted themselves for arrest. The Black community of Montgomery, of course, was in a different situation, but even among Black Alabamans, there was much dispute about the best course of action, and it took extraordinary talent and perserverance for ED Nixon, Jo Ann Robinson, Martin Luther King Jr, Ralph Abernathy and many others to keep the Boycott together long enough for the Supreme Court to step in and force the city of Montgomery to cave.

I think you've invented a storybook history based on what you want to believe - your parents' generation weren't really that racist, Blacks were always going to be "granted" rights eventually no matter what they did, and all it took was a few rousing speeches at the Lincoln Memorial to get the whole country singing Kumbayah and embracing a multiracial future. But that isn't what happened, nor could our present situation of rising racial animus and recriminatory violence possibly have been derived from such a lah-dee-dah past.

I realize you are likely uninterested in cracking your own paradigm, but if anyone else here is interested in learning more about Parks, the Boycott, and Browder v Gale, I highly recommend J. Mills Thornton's 2002 book, Dividing Lines, about a third of which is dedicated to exploring the situation in Montgomery (he also covers Selma and Birminghsm, equally well). Jo Ann Robinson's memoir (she effectively launched the Boycott by widely distributing the news of Parks' arrest) is well worth a read.

I applaud your brief but detailed recounting of some of the ratchet clicks I and others have been been pointing out.
Seriously - nice points.
 
Are you deliberately missing the point? Those 'ratchet clicks' were the result of demanding rights. Rights that had themselves first been won on the battlefield, and then in the courts. Nothing good ever came of begging politely for tiny concessions. Much was asked, much was risked, and in the end much was gained. Liberating politics requires risk, honesty, initiative, and organization to succeed.
 
Desirability of location shouldn't be a consideration with respect to low cost housing proposals. It's a They Get What They Get thing. There are tens of millions of acres to build on in California. The high desert in San Bernardino county is a good example. All the infrastructure is there to allow it to happen and there's tons of land owned by private sellers that the state could purchase.
Housing without jobs isn't of much use.
Another thing is the policing/security that would be required. Idealists can argue against this all they want, but low income areas are rife with crime. There would need to be a selection process that weeds out the law abiding from those with criminal records. There's no sense in spending 10s of billions of dollars to create the American version of Kowloon Walled City.
And as soon as you attempt to do this you'll have the discrimination warriors all over you. Because that criminality has to be just due to more policing. You must ignore anything that is not under the control of the powerful.
 

Housing isn’t like cans of beans though, location matters. People need to live near jobs, schools, transit, and healthcare, not an empty patch of land hours away. And on the crime point, poverty and lack of opportunity drive crime, not affordable housing itself. As for Loren screaming full steam ahead away from my Wall Street argument, dismissing them like they’re irrelevant is silly. They don’t have to own all homes to distort markets. Concentrated buying, bulk purchases, and algorithm-driven rent hikes already raise costs in neighborhoods they target. Pretending that has ZERO effect just because underbuilding exists is like pretending scalpers don’t drive up ticket prices just because a concert was already sold out.
I do have a big problem with the algorithm driven rent--that was in reality price fixing because one company managed to get control over enough rentals. Once a market becomes non-competitive you have all sorts of problems.
 
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