2 UM students expelled for getting girl drunk and raping her

[Toni]

They shouldn't be suspended or expelled simply for the allegation. They should be presumed innocent. Getting kicked off the team is a bit of a different matter, since that isn't something they paid tuition for and the team may simply be looking after its image.

I don't think they should have been kicked off--suspend them while it's pending. Don't punish until you're sure of guilt. (Although in this case it certainly looks like they are guilty.)

Does it change your opinion that they confessed?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The teen reported the crime to University of Miami Police, who then contacted the local police department.

A spokesperson for the Coral Gables police department told BuzzFeed that on Tuesday Figueroa and Blue went to the police station and admitted to “buying and administering several alcoholic beverages for the victim” and taking her back to Figueroa’s dorm room, where they “performed sexual acts on the her without her consent.”

At that point they were arrested.

My emphasis, because apparently some people can't fucking read.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

My emphasis, because apparently some people can't fucking read.

That doesn't make any sense. If they can't read, why would making the text bigger help? That's like someone telling you they can't speak English, so you start yelling at him to make what you're saying clearer.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My emphasis, because apparently some people can't fucking read.

That doesn't make any sense. If they can't read, why would making the text bigger help? That's like someone telling you they can't speak English, so you start yelling at him to make what you're saying clearer.

If the Internet (well, the Internet of 10 years ago) has taught me nothing else, it is that large, bold, underlined text is the key to getting your point across.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That doesn't make any sense. If they can't read, why would making the text bigger help? That's like someone telling you they can't speak English, so you start yelling at him to make what you're saying clearer.

If the Internet (well, the Internet of 10 years ago) has taught me nothing else, it is that large, bold, underlined text is the key to getting your point across.

What? I don't get your point.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If the Internet (well, the Internet of 10 years ago) has taught me nothing else, it is that large, bold, underlined text is the key to getting your point across.

What? I don't get your point.

Sorry.

If the Internet (well, the Internet of 10 years ago) has taught me nothing else, it is that large, bold, underlined text is the key to getting your point across.

 

[doubtingt]

They shouldn't be suspended or expelled simply for the allegation. They should be presumed innocent. Getting kicked off the team is a bit of a different matter, since that isn't something they paid tuition for and the team may simply be looking after its image.

I don't think they should have been kicked off--suspend them while it's pending. Don't punish until you're sure of guilt. (Although in this case it certainly looks like they are guilty.)

It isn't a punishment. It is protecting the victim. If she was raped, then its wrong to make her be around them on campus. The school is between a rock and a hard place, either subject a potential rape victim to having to see her rapists walk around campus every day or suspend the accused even though they might be innocent. It is reasonable that they make their decision based upon the seeming strength of the case against the accused, which in this case seems extremely high. In fact, unless the police are lying, the school can be confident these guys did rape her. They admitted it. So, even if not convicted on some technicality, the school could be justified in expelling them permanently.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What? I don't get your point.

Sorry.

If the Internet (well, the Internet of 10 years ago) has taught me nothing else, it is that large, bold, underlined text is the key to getting your point across.

Oh, OK. I understand now.

</derail>

 

[Celldweller]

Free The U of M Two!!.....damnit, it doesn't rhyme. I guess there's no hope for a Netflix documentary on this.

 

[Barbarian]

It's been five minutes; I'm surprised that we are not already at 120 posts debating the issue. Perhaps people are away getting coffee.

I'm sure the thread will take off when the pro rape side shows up.

Do you truly live in a fantasy world where there is a pro-rape side, or was this just plain old goading?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think they should have been kicked off--suspend them while it's pending. Don't punish until you're sure of guilt. (Although in this case it certainly looks like they are guilty.)

Does it change your opinion that they confessed?

Ever hear of coerced confessions? People are sometimes exonerated despite confessions.


And what's the harm in simply suspending them rather than kicking them off the team?

 

[Toni]

Does it change your opinion that they confessed?

Ever hear of coerced confessions? People are sometimes exonerated despite confessions.


And what's the harm in simply suspending them rather than kicking them off the team?

Yes, I am aware of coerced confessions. I haven't seen/read anything that reads like that in this particular case. Of course if the confessions were coerced the case would need to be based upon other evidence and should these two ultimately be innocent, the university could reinstate them.

As to why kick them off/out rather than suspend the suspects: it sends a really strong message that rape is not acceptable behavior and that the university is committed to providing a safe educational environment for students and staff.

It is also consistent with actions the university has taken with regards to other student athletes accused of various crimes, including sexual assault, felony possession and theft.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/07/08/4224434/um-football-players-jawand-blue.html

Getting a quick boot from the team following an arrest is nothing new under coach Al Golden.
In May 2011, Hurricanes freshman defensive lineman Jeffrey Brown was booted from the team after being accused of sexual battery on a helpless victim and admitting to Coral Gables police he had sex with a severely-intoxicated female student in a campus dorm. Those charges were eventually downgraded to false imprisonment and Brown was asked to serve three years probation, complete a sex therapy program and perform 100 hours of community service.
Two months earlier, senior linebacker Ramon Buchanan was arrested and charged with two felonies and three misdemeanors following an incident at a Coconut Grove nightclub. Buchanan was suspended from the team following his arrest but reinstated two weeks later after he was permitted to enter a pre-trial diversion program.
In December 2012, sophomore cornerback Thomas Finnie was suspended indefinitely from the football team after surrendering to police and admitting he was involved in a laptop theft on campus. He did not return and now plays at Bethune-Cookman College.
In April 2013, freshman linebacker Gabe Terry was kicked off the team following his arrest on charges of felony marijuana possession.

The students in this case are suspended from the university--not expelled--and barred from campus pending investigation. Drugging and causing a victim to become further intoxicated and then raping that victim is a serious crime, or rather a series of serious crimes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Does it change your opinion that they confessed?

Ever hear of coerced confessions? People are sometimes exonerated despite confessions.

You'll condone just about any police brutality, but you are first in line to question a confession?

 

[The Paul]

I don't think they should have been kicked off--suspend them while it's pending. Don't punish until you're sure of guilt. (Although in this case it certainly looks like they are guilty.)

Does it change your opinion that they confessed?

I was gonna try and make a joke about how it wouldn't, but then

Does it change your opinion that they confessed?

Ever hear of coerced confessions? People are sometimes exonerated despite confessions.


And what's the harm in simply suspending them rather than kicking them off the team?

So I don't know... It seems like there do exist incidences of rape where Loren won't leap to the rapist's defense, but we can't accurately predict the phenomenon based on little things like guilt being obvious, no matter how obvious it is.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As to why kick them off/out rather than suspend the suspects: it sends a really strong message that rape is not acceptable behavior and that the university is committed to providing a safe educational environment for students and staff.

We are *FAR* too obsessed with sending messages.

 

[Toni]

As to why kick them off/out rather than suspend the suspects: it sends a really strong message that rape is not acceptable behavior and that the university is committed to providing a safe educational environment for students and staff.

We are *FAR* too obsessed with sending messages.

Allowing two student athletes who confess to serious crimes, in luding rape of another student to remain on their team, in class a message, too. That message is that committing sexual assault against another student is no big deal.

If your son or daughter had been drugged and raped At their university, do think you would be ok with expecting them to continue going to class, living in their dorm, eating in the cafeteria with the person or persons who confessed to raping them? Even if your child was not the victim, would you feel comfortable with him or her being on campus with confessed rapists? Do think they could be comfortable or feel safe?

Besides, the confessed rapists are busy being in jail and awaiting trial and are not available for football practice or class.

 

[laughing dog]

As to why kick them off/out rather than suspend the suspects: it sends a really strong message that rape is not acceptable behavior and that the university is committed to providing a safe educational environment for students and staff.

We are *FAR* too obsessed with sending messages.

Given how few people appear capable of understanding or receiving them, it makes sense to increase the effort. Although, it does get discouraging given the blatant obtuseness of many.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We are *FAR* too obsessed with sending messages.

Given how few people appear capable of understanding or receiving them, it makes sense to increase the effort. Although, it does get discouraging given the blatant obtuseness of many.

"Sending a message" is normally an excuse for doing something wrong.

 

[fromderinside]

"Sending a message" is normally an excuse for doing something wrong

... when wrong doers do it.

I'm sending a message: "be more selective in your use of sayings Loren Pechtel".

Do you actually think I'm doing something wrong?

 

[laughing dog]

Given how few people appear capable of understanding or receiving them, it makes sense to increase the effort. Although, it does get discouraging given the blatant obtuseness of many.

"Sending a message" is normally an excuse for doing something wrong.

You need to explain how providing an example that confessed rapists will be swiftly dealt with by the university is "doing something wrong" in order for your responses to be even relevant, let alone convincing.