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2020 Election Results

But are they foggy? ;)
I've gone thru a patch of fog thick enough that we debated pulling off the I-10 between Tucson and Phoenix one morning. Instead we cautiously tailed an 18 wheeler. I've seen worse in other place, but it was pretty bad then.

Maybe the horns could be put on Gila Monsters ;)

I have hit fog bad enough to make me take the next exit because nobody knew how to drive--full speed ahead when nothing above 25 would have been safe. Then I couldn't safely get into work because everyone was driving too fast to safely make the left turn into the parking lot. I finally ended up using a bunch of right turns to get back to the office on the other side of the street--this was long before Google and I didn't know any of the streets out there. (Mesa, suburb of Phoenix.)

But it’s always best to go with the flow. If all vehicles are recklessly going 45 and one guy is Magooing it at 25, Mr. Magoo is just creating another hazard.
What would Hitler think?
 
But it’s always best to go with the flow. If all vehicles are recklessly going 45 and one guy is Magooing it at 25, Mr. Magoo is just creating another hazard.
What would Hitler think?

Brings an experience to mind from a some years back, when taking a BIL to the Denver airport from Boulder in extreme ice-up conditions. Traffic was moving at a speed (near 60mph) set by some idiots in 4x4s who seemed to think that having four wheel drive gave them superpowers. I was driving a front wheel drive Honda accord with studded tires. Found one vehicle that seemed to be driving sensibly at around 45-50mph, a few MPH slower than the rest of the traffic, and followed them at a "safe" distance. We started predicting the fate of vehicles that would pass us; "that guy won't make the next exit", "here's one we'll see again in a mile or less". And it kept happening. An idiot would pass us, and within minutes we'd see them high-centered in the median or off the shoulder in the weeds. It was amazing. Even more amazing was that we never saw any of them actually get in a collision - they'd just spin off the road and take themselves out of the game.
 
But it’s always best to go with the flow. If all vehicles are recklessly going 45 and one guy is Magooing it at 25, Mr. Magoo is just creating another hazard.
What would Hitler think?

Brings an experience to mind from a some years back, when taking a BIL to the Denver airport from Boulder in extreme ice-up conditions. Traffic was moving at a speed (near 60mph) set by some idiots in 4x4s who seemed to think that having four wheel drive gave them superpowers. I was driving a front wheel drive Honda accord with studded tires. Found one vehicle that seemed to be driving sensibly at around 45-50mph, a few MPH slower than the rest of the traffic, and followed them at a "safe" distance. We started predicting the fate of vehicles that would pass us; "that guy won't make the next exit", "here's one we'll see again in a mile or less". And it kept happening. An idiot would pass us, and within minutes we'd see them high-centered in the median or off the shoulder in the weeds. It was amazing. Even more amazing was that we never saw any of them actually get in a collision - they'd just spin off the road and take themselves out of the game.

When I lived in Colorado I totally saw that attitude; people in their Subarus thinking they could just drive however they wanted.
 
We don't ice much in NE Ohio, but I remember one morning there was plenty of ice and lots of empty bed pickup trucks and SUVs spun out.
 
I have hit fog bad enough to make me take the next exit because nobody knew how to drive--full speed ahead when nothing above 25 would have been safe. Then I couldn't safely get into work because everyone was driving too fast to safely make the left turn into the parking lot. I finally ended up using a bunch of right turns to get back to the office on the other side of the street--this was long before Google and I didn't know any of the streets out there. (Mesa, suburb of Phoenix.)

But it’s always best to go with the flow. If all vehicles are recklessly going 45 and one guy is Magooing it at 25, Mr. Magoo is just creating another hazard.
What would Hitler think?

In general going with the flow is the right thing to do. However, in severe visibility issues that's how you get those 100-car pileups when fog hits an area that usually doesn't have fog. I was on the freeway, IIRC a 65.
 
I have hit fog bad enough to make me take the next exit because nobody knew how to drive--full speed ahead when nothing above 25 would have been safe. Then I couldn't safely get into work because everyone was driving too fast to safely make the left turn into the parking lot. I finally ended up using a bunch of right turns to get back to the office on the other side of the street--this was long before Google and I didn't know any of the streets out there. (Mesa, suburb of Phoenix.)
Well, at least you didn't crash into 24th and E. Van Buren... (AZ State Psychiatric Hospital)

Isn't that pretty close to the area with the hourly motels?
 
I have a question about 2020 Election Results. May I hijack this thread to ask it? :)

My question is about the audit in Maricopa County. Are there any predictions about what the audit will "reveal"? Is there any reason whatsoever to imagine that Ninja and/or the Party of Hate-filled Liars will not take the opportunity to destroy Biden ballots and forge Trump ballots?

When the Red-shirts pick up Maricopa County after this "audit," will they demand "audits" in other places? I see on the news that Atty-General Garland isn't happy about possible fraud in the audit: An Arizona State Senator responded by calling for Garland's immediate arrest. (That must have been a moderate Republican. A real Republican would have called for Garland to be murdered.)

How about the Republicans we are so lucky to have here at TFT? Do they have opinions on the audit?
 
I have a question about 2020 Election Results. May I hijack this thread to ask it? :)

My question is about the audit in Maricopa County. Are there any predictions about what the audit will "reveal"? Is there any reason whatsoever to imagine that Ninja and/or the Party of Hate-filled Liars will not take the opportunity to destroy Biden ballots and forge Trump ballots?

When the Red-shirts pick up Maricopa County after this "audit," will they demand "audits" in other places? I see on the news that Atty-General Garland isn't happy about possible fraud in the audit: An Arizona State Senator responded by calling for Garland's immediate arrest. (That must have been a moderate Republican. A real Republican would have called for Garland to be murdered.)

How about the Republicans we are so lucky to have here at TFT? Do they have opinions on the audit?

Maricopa County resident checking in.

Legally, it doesn't matter what the Cyber Nincompoops "find." The election results were certified by the Secretary of State, the (R) Governor, and the (R) Attorney General. There were multiple official audits done by people who both knew what they were doing and had the authority to do so. No irregularities were found. The original vote count was watched like a hawk by official observers from both parties and was even live-streamed so citizens could see it happen.

Any "fraud" found by these idiots would be like someone editing out half the shots the Suns made in order to beat the Lakers in the NBA playoffs. Yeah, their tape may show LA "winning," but the NBA and the fans who were at the game would say otherwise. What they are trying to do here is appease Trump and his rabid followers, try to sow further doubt in the integrity of elections, use that to pass legislation restricting voting/granting themselves power to overturn results, and deploy all this in 2022 and beyond to question contests where they lose. They also want to export this sham to other states like Georgia, where there were also multiple recounts and audits that turned up nothing.

I'm not sure which state Senator called for Garland to be arrested, but I've seen our legislature in action. There's some real nut cases on the GOP side. The state level GOP has been purging the old school Arizona "maverick" reps for years, and the wing nut wing (Kelli Ward, Paul Gosar, etc.) have basically taken over the party. Fortunately there's enough blue and blue-leaning people to balance them out for now. I'm disappointed in Sinema to put it mildly (she was once my Congress critter and I don't know what the hell happened to her), but we've got Mark Kelly, Ruben Gallego, and some other bright lights to offset the nuttery from the right.
 
This is institutional psychopathy. When you only care about yourself, the way you behave is radically different from how people who care about others would behave.

The GOP has lost. If they had a shred of interest in the good of the country, or of the people, they would say "oh well, let's try and win next time". That's how both parties have always behaved, for the good of the nation.

But they don't care. Under Trump, they have become incapable of caring about anything but themselves. So having lost, their strategy is to smash the system. No system, no loss. The worst that can happen is that they end up without power - but that's where they are right now, so they have nothing to lose. If they smash the system, they might end up with more power than they have right now. But they don't think that it's possible to end up with less - it became clear after the coup attempt that none of Trump's people, and certainly not Trump himself, would suffer any penalty.

The only way to deal with this institutional psychopathy would be to punish those who are undermining the system. But the Dems won't push for that, because they're worried it might damage the system.
 
This is institutional psychopathy. When you only care about yourself, the way you behave is radically different from how people who care about others would behave.

The GOP has lost. If they had a shred of interest in the good of the country, or of the people, they would say "oh well, let's try and win next time". That's how both parties have always behaved, for the good of the nation.

But they don't care. Under Trump, they have become incapable of caring about anything but themselves. So having lost, their strategy is to smash the system. No system, no loss. The worst that can happen is that they end up without power - but that's where they are right now, so they have nothing to lose. If they smash the system, they might end up with more power than they have right now. But they don't think that it's possible to end up with less - it became clear after the coup attempt that none of Trump's people, and certainly not Trump himself, would suffer any penalty.

The only way to deal with this institutional psychopathy would be to punish those who are undermining the system. But the Dems won't push for that, because they're worried it might damage the system.

I agree with this. But it's over-simplified to lump all GOPsters into a single category. There are at least 4 or 5 separate types.

* Some Republicans have been hate-filled bigots all their lives and would inevitably vote for the worst candidate: Donald Trump, Joe Arpaio, whoever. But this is a smallish minority.

* The vast majority of Republican voters are simply Americans who don't have a clue what's happening. Many of these have high intelligence but don't follow politics. (I can sympathize: I was in my 40's and a highly-respected professional when I first started paying attention to U.S. politics.)

* Many Americans have been brain-washed by fake news. Studies show that Fox viewers know LESS about current events than Americans who do NOT watch any news at all! (Given that, imagine the ignorance of those who get their news from QAnon or Maxnews.)

* GOP Congressmen and newscasters like Tucker Carlson are only in it for the bucks. Carlson will be worth many tens of millions of dollars. GOP Congresspeople are all on the way to be multi-millionaires. These are people who would sell their daughters to brothels instead if it paid better than being a Republican pundit. The Trump family fits in this group.

* Finally, there are Charles Koch and other "puppet masters." Although these billionaires would lose money when the economy collapses, it's naive to think they're worried about that. Having $15 billion when the U.S. looks like Putin's Russia is simply more fun than having $40 billion in a liberal economy. When (not if) the U.S. becomes a banana republic, the billionaires will be able to order murders when they wish, and can enjoy all the 14 year-old girls they want. As we've seen recently, these appetites are harder to indulge in a liberal democracy even if you're very rich.

Over the past few years, the billionaire puppet masters have lost some of their power. The Frankenstein they created with FoxNews, Cambridge Analytics, etc. took on a life of its own and turned the GOP over to clowns. But this is probably just temporary. Koch and his ilk are already planning new ways to subvert social media, to out-Trump Trump, and to harness American psychoses for their own ends.
 
This is institutional psychopathy. When you only care about yourself, the way you behave is radically different from how people who care about others would behave.

The GOP has lost. If they had a shred of interest in the good of the country, or of the people, they would say "oh well, let's try and win next time". That's how both parties have always behaved, for the good of the nation.

But they don't care. Under Trump, they have become incapable of caring about anything but themselves. So having lost, their strategy is to smash the system. No system, no loss. The worst that can happen is that they end up without power - but that's where they are right now, so they have nothing to lose. If they smash the system, they might end up with more power than they have right now. But they don't think that it's possible to end up with less - it became clear after the coup attempt that none of Trump's people, and certainly not Trump himself, would suffer any penalty.

The only way to deal with this institutional psychopathy would be to punish those who are undermining the system. But the Dems won't push for that, because they're worried it might damage the system.
The system is damaged, it is arguably unfixable at this point.

The fear isn't damaging, it is the GOP seizing control in 2023, and that being that for the Democrats.
 
The fear isn't damaging, it is the GOP seizing control in 2023, and that being that for the Democrats.

I see Dem politicos looking like they expect to be rewarded when that happens, saying "oh well, we tried" - when they didn't try at all, and in fact tried to deny that democracy was being destroyed even as its pillars crashed down around their ears.
 
The fear isn't damaging, it is the GOP seizing control in 2023, and that being that for the Democrats.

I see Dem politicos looking like they expect to be rewarded when that happens, saying "oh well, we tried" - when they didn't try at all, and in fact tried to deny that democracy was being destroyed even as its pillars crashed down around their ears.
You saw what the GOP did after Reid finally acted on getting judges approved through the GOP's obstruction. Not only did they apply it to SCOTUS, they stopped the approval of a Justice nomination. The GOP have been escalating their anti-Democratic behavior since Gingrich. We are near the End Game now.
 
[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A federal judge wants every attorney whose name was on court filings seeking to overturn Michigan's presidential election results in the "Kraken" suit there to show up for a sanctions hearing on July 6. <a href="https://t.co/816zUMHZ4l">pic.twitter.com/816zUMHZ4l</a></p>— Brad Heath (@bradheath) <a href="https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1405640781319319555?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]

Uh oh...
 
[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A federal judge wants every attorney whose name was on court filings seeking to overturn Michigan's presidential election results in the "Kraken" suit there to show up for a sanctions hearing on July 6. <a href="https://t.co/816zUMHZ4l">pic.twitter.com/816zUMHZ4l</a></p>— Brad Heath (@bradheath) <a href="https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1405640781319319555?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]

Uh oh...

The GOP will just pay it.
 
* The vast majority of Republican voters are simply Americans who don't have a clue what's happening. Many of these have high intelligence but don't follow politics. (I can sympathize: I was in my 40's and a highly-respected professional when I first started paying attention to U.S. politics.)

They know what is happening.

They KNOW Trump is a pathological liar. They don't care.

They know he tried to subvert democracy with violence.

They don't care.

They do not believe in democracy.

Because they are capitalists. Democracy and capitalism are in direct opposition.
 
This is institutional psychopathy. When you only care about yourself, the way you behave is radically different from how people who care about others would behave.

The GOP has lost. If they had a shred of interest in the good of the country, or of the people, they would say "oh well, let's try and win next time". That's how both parties have always behaved, for the good of the nation.

But they don't care. Under Trump, they have become incapable of caring about anything but themselves. So having lost, their strategy is to smash the system. No system, no loss. The worst that can happen is that they end up without power - but that's where they are right now, so they have nothing to lose. If they smash the system, they might end up with more power than they have right now. But they don't think that it's possible to end up with less - it became clear after the coup attempt that none of Trump's people, and certainly not Trump himself, would suffer any penalty.

The only way to deal with this institutional psychopathy would be to punish those who are undermining the system. But the Dems won't push for that, because they're worried it might damage the system.

I agree with this. But it's over-simplified to lump all GOPsters into a single category. There are at least 4 or 5 separate types.

* Some Republicans have been hate-filled bigots all their lives and would inevitably vote for the worst candidate: Donald Trump, Joe Arpaio, whoever. But this is a smallish minority.

* The vast majority of Republican voters are simply Americans who don't have a clue what's happening. Many of these have high intelligence but don't follow politics. (I can sympathize: I was in my 40's and a highly-respected professional when I first started paying attention to U.S. politics.)

* Many Americans have been brain-washed by fake news. Studies show that Fox viewers know LESS about current events than Americans who do NOT watch any news at all! (Given that, imagine the ignorance of those who get their news from QAnon or Maxnews.)

* GOP Congressmen and newscasters like Tucker Carlson are only in it for the bucks. Carlson will be worth many tens of millions of dollars. GOP Congresspeople are all on the way to be multi-millionaires. These are people who would sell their daughters to brothels instead if it paid better than being a Republican pundit. The Trump family fits in this group.

* Finally, there are Charles Koch and other "puppet masters." Although these billionaires would lose money when the economy collapses, it's naive to think they're worried about that. Having $15 billion when the U.S. looks like Putin's Russia is simply more fun than having $40 billion in a liberal economy. When (not if) the U.S. becomes a banana republic, the billionaires will be able to order murders when they wish, and can enjoy all the 14 year-old girls they want. As we've seen recently, these appetites are harder to indulge in a liberal democracy even if you're very rich.

Over the past few years, the billionaire puppet masters have lost some of their power. The Frankenstein they created with FoxNews, Cambridge Analytics, etc. took on a life of its own and turned the GOP over to clowns. But this is probably just temporary. Koch and his ilk are already planning new ways to subvert social media, to out-Trump Trump, and to harness American psychoses for their own ends.

Republicans generally are becoming Nazi like in their actions. They support dictatorial policies and hate anything liberal or democratic. They only want power for themselves and wish to disenfranchise anyone who isn't one of "us."
 
* The vast majority of Republican voters are simply Americans who don't have a clue what's happening. Many of these have high intelligence but don't follow politics. (I can sympathize: I was in my 40's and a highly-respected professional when I first started paying attention to U.S. politics.)

They know what is happening.

They KNOW Trump is a pathological liar. They don't care.

They know he tried to subvert democracy with violence.

They don't care.

They do not believe in democracy.

Because they are capitalists. Democracy and capitalism are in direct opposition.

You tellin' me that THIS GUY is a "capitalist"?

No, Unter. He's just a moron. THESE are the people who elected Trump and continue to elect fucking Nazis, believing with all their blessed hearts that they are furthering democracy and God.
Capitalists are the ones who reap vast rewards by paying the cost of convincing these idiots that they're "patriots". There are hundreds of thousands of capitalists, but tens of millions of their rubes.

truphouse.JPG
 
You tellin' me that THIS GUY is a "capitalist"?

He's a blind supporter of capitalism.

Meaning he has low regard for democracy.

There is no connection between democracy and capitalism.

Capitalism is almost exclusively a dictatorial system of top down control.
 
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