A sad casualty of DEI/Woke at Cambridge University

[DrZoidberg]

Speaking of which, here's a lovely old lady having a go at academic gibberish. Enjoy

Ahh. Butler, the absolute priestess of gibberish that seems intentionally designed to make it completely incomprehensible. My take is that it's an effort to disguise the fact that she's saying either nothing of use to anyone at all... or she's saying something that's fucking obvious to everyone.

In defence of Butler. Its her generation. In the 60'ies, 70'ies and 80'ies obscurantist language was, on purpose, employed to exclude non-specialists from being able to participate in the conversation.

This is what the ivory tower quip was about.

In this era univetsities were elite institutions we all aspired to peak into. The universities decided who was cool or not.

I think the beatnik and hippie movements are very much a product of this. They have attained superior knowledge/gnosis/enlightenment and no longer chase material wealth. Their wealth is spiritual.

The increasingly obscurantist language of academia was a status marker.

Then we had the economic crisis of the 70'ies. We shifted to a world where generating wealth was the primary. Advertisers were no longer the wealthiest. Now its nerdy tech bros. They didn't care about impressing the acsdemics. They just wanted to learn as much as possible quickly. If the academics couldn't deliver on this, they were seen as useless.

Today we see universities as servants of society. They're still gate keepers of intellectual greatness. But their value comes from spreading that information and making it easy to digest.

Or to put it in another way, academics respond to incentives. Butler wrote like she did because, at the time, that was the best way to influence.

I agree that its better now

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, reality does have a liberal bias so...

What leads you to think this is the case?

It is a quip from *looks it up* Stephan Colbert. I thought it was The Simpsons, but maybe they used it later. Colbert used the line in 2006, back when the GOP was well into transforming into its "We are now part of the right-wing propaganda machine" phase. Iraq lies were a major portion of this observation. That to speak about what was happening was liberal propaganda.

 

[Politesse]

In defence of Butler. Its her generation. In the 60'ies, 70'ies and 80'ies obscurantist language was, on purpose, employed to exclude non-specialists from being able to participate in the conversation.

This is what the ivory tower quip was about.

My god, someone who actually knows what the term ivory tower is supposed to mean! Wonders never cease.

(The common misuse of the phrase is a pet peeve of mine.)

 

[thebeave]

Well, reality does have a liberal bias so...

What leads you to think this is the case?

It is a quip from *looks it up* Stephan Colbert. I thought it was The Simpsons, but maybe they used it later. Colbert used the line in 2006, back when the GOP was well into transforming into its "We are now part of the right-wing propaganda machine" phase. Iraq lies were a major portion of this observation. That to speak about what was happening was liberal propaganda.

I don't think we need pontification from Stephan Colbert about the nature of reality:



Next up, Colbert asks if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around?

 

[Toni]

Well, reality does have a liberal bias so...

What leads you to think this is the case?

It is a quip from *looks it up* Stephan Colbert. I thought it was The Simpsons, but maybe they used it later. Colbert used the line in 2006, back when the GOP was well into transforming into its "We are now part of the right-wing propaganda machine" phase. Iraq lies were a major portion of this observation. That to speak about what was happening was liberal propaganda.

I don't think we need pontification from Stephan Colbert about the nature of reality:



Next up, Colbert asks if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around?

You get that Colbert often used irony and satire, right?

 

[Emily Lake]

Well, reality does have a liberal bias so...

What leads you to think this is the case?

It is a quip from *looks it up* Stephan Colbert. I thought it was The Simpsons, but maybe they used it later. Colbert used the line in 2006, back when the GOP was well into transforming into its "We are now part of the right-wing propaganda machine" phase. Iraq lies were a major portion of this observation. That to speak about what was happening was liberal propaganda.

Thanks for the background. I guess it just doesn't answer the thrust of my question though. I dunno. I tend to think that reality has no bias at all. Objective reality simply is.

 

[Emily Lake]

You get that Colbert often used irony and satire, right?

Sure. Did that interaction seem like irony and satire to you?

 

[Toni]

You get that Colbert often used irony and satire, right?

Sure. Did that interaction seem like irony and satire to you?

I was referring to the follow up text written by the beave.

 

[Emily Lake]

You get that Colbert often used irony and satire, right?

Sure. Did that interaction seem like irony and satire to you?

I was referring to the follow up text written by the beave.

I was assuming that the beave was being tongue in cheek, not actually reporting what topic Colbert next addressed.

 

[thebeave]

You get that Colbert often used irony and satire, right?

Sure. Did that interaction seem like irony and satire to you?

I was referring to the follow up text written by the beave.

I was assuming that the beave was being tongue in cheek, not actually reporting what topic Colbert next addressed.

Exactly! Thank you...I was just going to pop in and state that, but you beat me to it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also some people, when confronted with something that is a little different t than what they are used to simply shut down and everything is ‘too hard’ and it must be the problem with the new thing.

The problem here is that difficulty is a 1 + 1 = 3 type situation.

You have a certain amount of mental capacity, when you have to divert some of it to figuring out the words you have less to understand what's being said, which in turn makes it harder to figure out the words.

I had one numbskull with an accent issue at the university. I could figure out what he said, but not fast enough to then catch the next sentence. And I was far from alone. The only redeeming grace was he didn't have anything useful to say, I simply had to keep track of what he got wrong. Many of us couldn't understand him, but I'm not aware of anyone filing a complaint. (Simple test of his incompetence. First day of class, someone gets lost, asks a question. He rambles back to what he had been talking about, not answering the question. Asked again, same result. Asked a third time--and someone else in the room pipes up with a correct one-word answer. I am sure the person who asked also knew the answer, they were just so confused by how he spoke they didn't realize it.)

An awful lot of people still tolerate the Gestapo. Just like under the Third Reich. Cowardice endangers us all.

You think there's something we can do about the Gestapo?

Including you.

If you look hard enough you'll find it whether it's there or not.

As you demonstrate every time you ‘find’ discrimination against Asians in medical school admissions.

You continue to blindly accept that they are correct in rejecting them for reasons that don't make much sense.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you look hard enough you'll find it whether it's there or not.

The alt-right mentality, summarized.

It's happening right now in our military. Hegseth is firing and rejecting women and black people like crazy.

They aren't even finding discrimination, just pretending to.

I was a colorblind society. The left puts their thumb heavily on approved victims (remember, Asians used to be discriminated against also--but they're not approved victims) side, the reich puts their thumb heavily on white. Both are wrong. You think I'm racist because I disagree with the leftist thumb, but you won't see I don't like the reich thumb, either.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There was a discrimination court case about that. If Harvards application would be colour blind, and only based on merit 50% should be Asian. These was their own numbers. 0% students would be black.

If ‘merit’ were only comprised of GPA plus SAT/ACT scores, you’d perhaps have a point.

School admissions, be they for elite or just any university, medical school, law school, grad school, or other professional school, are not a race, with the top composite scores being allotted admissions.

How is it not a race??

You are right that it's not just test scores. The problem is how biased the other metrics are.

 

[Toni]

Also some people, when confronted with something that is a little different t than what they are used to simply shut down and everything is ‘too hard’ and it must be the problem with the new thing.

The problem here is that difficulty is a 1 + 1 = 3 type situation.

You have a certain amount of mental capacity, when you have to divert some of it to figuring out the words you have less to understand what's being said, which in turn makes it harder to figure out the words.

I had one numbskull with an accent issue at the university. I could figure out what he said, but not fast enough to then catch the next sentence. And I was far from alone. The only redeeming grace was he didn't have anything useful to say, I simply had to keep track of what he got wrong. Many of us couldn't understand him, but I'm not aware of anyone filing a complaint. (Simple test of his incompetence. First day of class, someone gets lost, asks a question. He rambles back to what he had been talking about, not answering the question. Asked again, same result. Asked a third time--and someone else in the room pipes up with a correct one-word answer. I am sure the person who asked also knew the answer, they were just so confused by how he spoke they didn't realize it.)

An awful lot of people still tolerate the Gestapo. Just like under the Third Reich. Cowardice endangers us all.

You think there's something we can do about the Gestapo?

Including you.

If you look hard enough you'll find it whether it's there or not.

As you demonstrate every time you ‘find’ discrimination against Asians in medical school admissions.

You continue to blindly accept that they are correct in rejecting them for reasons that don't make much sense.

I agree that racism does not make much sense.

My Australian friend would likely have zero problem if he were blonde haired and blue eyed. I don’t think that was the student’s objection: his skin is brown and his hair black. Thst was the real issue. And my Asian friend as well: if she were Caucasian, no one would have a problem with her speech. I know this because she is very well nine in the community, is a leader in multiple organizations and speaks better, more clear English than many Americans.


I also took classes from people from other countries—and I was coming from a small town. I had never met anyone from another country until I went to university. Most of my profs with accents were easy to u defraud but one TA from Taiwan had a very thick accent and all of us struggled. Fortunately it was a small class and it was easy for her to write the symbol. But her accent was very very heavy, unlike my friends’ accents.

I’ve worked on an organization where Americans were a small minority and people came from all over the world. The only people who had difficulty with an accent were a few ugly Americans. I had heard the term but I became quite familiar with what and who it referred to.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Wikipedia skews left.

I think you have Wikipedia confused with reality.

Reality skews left. Wikipedia skews left of reality. Lots of cherry-picking.

Bit of a derail... but why would you say reality skews left?

Not really. It's just the conservatives keep trying to present alternate "reality" that supports their position. Except it doesn't match up with what's happening.

This has ended up with the expression that reality skews left--because it's a lot closer to the left's position than to the reich's position.

The problem with Wikipedia is that it's effectively a vote about what is true. Reality doesn't have a ballot box.

 

[Toni]

There was a discrimination court case about that. If Harvards application would be colour blind, and only based on merit 50% should be Asian. These was their own numbers. 0% students would be black.

If ‘merit’ were only comprised of GPA plus SAT/ACT scores, you’d perhaps have a point.

School admissions, be they for elite or just any university, medical school, law school, grad school, or other professional school, are not a race, with the top composite scores being allotted admissions.

How is it not a race??

You are right that it's not just test scores. The problem is how biased the other metrics are.

Tests themselves have racial and class biases.

I’ve had friends who are very intelligent—brilliant, even but whom would make poor physicians at least if they were dealing with patients instead of doing pure research. I’ve mentioned one who finally gave up rebelling against her parents and became a mathematics professor. She’s very good at it. As a physician she would have struggled to engage properly with patients. She was interested in math and physics and bored by biology.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And I'm certainly not going to sit here and pretend that anyone campaigning against "DEI hires" is ever either:

1. Not racist

or

2. Not associated with the regime of Donald John Trump, and his allies on the "Right" and the "Left", who have allowed him to legally seize power of an increasingly illegitimate state.

Because I refuse to pretend to be a fucking moron in the name of "politeness". These parasitic thieves and assholes infesting the White House have betrayed the Constitution, their country, their neighbors, and their God, and they should all be in jail.

The problem here is that there are clear DEI hires that shouldn't have happened.

The Felon et al are using this as an excuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but that doesn't make the problem nonexistent.

 

[Toni]

And I'm certainly not going to sit here and pretend that anyone campaigning against "DEI hires" is ever either:

1. Not racist

or

2. Not associated with the regime of Donald John Trump, and his allies on the "Right" and the "Left", who have allowed him to legally seize power of an increasingly illegitimate state.

Because I refuse to pretend to be a fucking moron in the name of "politeness". These parasitic thieves and assholes infesting the White House have betrayed the Constitution, their country, their neighbors, and their God, and they should all be in jail.

The problem here is that there are clear DEI hires that shouldn't have happened.

The Felon et al are using this as an excuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but that doesn't make the problem nonexistent.

You mean Trump’s Cabinet? Few of them, especially Hegseth, have the requisite knowledge, training or background. Except for being white and MAGA, that is. And having zero shame in fellating Trump in public.

 

[TSwizzle]

Sam Brinton

 

[Patooka]

Sam Brinton

Insightful, as always