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A Strong Rebuke To Those Calling For Northam To Resign

This seems to be going all Tour De France on us. Okay, everyone that cheated step to the side. *7/8's of field steps aside* Okay, Danny Pate you are the champion now.

Everyone in Virginia government that is guilty of at least publicly published racially insensitive behavior step to the side. 7/8's step to the side. Alright, the Dog Catcher Warden of Richmond is now Governor.

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Loving how the state of Virginia is scrambling to find a single Dem in the line of succession who hasn't worn blackface or sexually assaulted someone. You can't make this shit up
And it is making Florida rush to find something even more ridiculous. It wasn't top government level, but it was the best they could do on short notice.
 
The notion that to not be a "bigot" then one must agree with the kind of accountability called for by some people is devoid of any lucid logic. There certainly can be disagreement as to the kinds of accountability without one being a "bigot." Being a "bigot" does not attach on the untenable basis of nothing more than disagreement about the kind of accountability.

Your false choice argument is not tenable. It is a pathetic argument to say that you are either in agreement with those people who are calling for a specific kind accountability OR a bigot. That is undoubtedly nonsense.

NO, I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

A strong, zero tolerance response from other powerful people as well as from us regular scrub voters, is visible to the entire country. That is a step in the right direction. If you want to support a racist status quo until a perfect remedy is available, you're on the wrong side of history. How's that for putting words in your mouth? Because that's what you sound like to me.

Northam himself is not even relevant to this discussion other than he happens to be the one who engaged in racist behavior and then tried to weasel his way out of responsibility. His comfort is not a factor in this debate.

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The notion that to not be a "bigot" then one must agree with the kind of accountability called for by some people is devoid of any lucid logic. There certainly can be disagreement as to the kinds of accountability without one being a "bigot." Being a "bigot" does not attach on the untenable basis of nothing more than disagreement about the kind of accountability.

Your false choice argument is not tenable. It is a pathetic argument to say that you are either in agreement with those people who are calling for a specific kind accountability OR a bigot. That is undoubtedly nonsense.

And this is the exact conversation which the Democratic Party needs to be having. There needs to be some sort of process of determining what kind of accountability is necessary in a given set of circumstances and have these rules (or at least guidelines) apply when those circumstances arise. The fact that they didn't is what made this whole episode one giant clusterfuck which just got worse with each passing day.

The Dems have had at least a year to talk amongst themselves and come up with a way of dealing with this, but they have not done so and have been caught flatfooted as a result and they need to change that. They know that this is not the last prominent Democrat who will be found to have racist incidents in his past. They know that this is not the last prominent Democrat who will face credible allegations of sexual misconduct. What is unclear is what they will do when these next arise and that needs to be clear.

It needs to be an open discussion in the Party and they need to come up with some guidelines along the lines of "If you do A, B, or C, you're fucking out. Don't whine about it, don't complain - just leave. If you do D, E, or F, we've got your back. If you do something else, we'll figure it out at the time but if we hear about it from a right wing troll or Russian operative before we hear about it from you, you're fucking out".

What they can't have is a repeat of what's happening now in Virginia.

And that is precisely the process we are in. It's messy, but it's not utter chaos.

NO, I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

That is exactly what you said. Your argument is a pathetic false choice of disagree with others as to the kind of accountability then you’re a bigot, which is your either with “us” or against “us.” It ignores a lot of middle ground of disagreeing with a kind of accountability without being a bigot.

Sounds familiar, this poor reasoning has been used before, to label any person a Commie if they were critical or disagreed with Congressional investigations during the era of McCarthyism.

And to reiterate, my position is, as reflected in my numerous posts, that I’m opposed to a specific kind of accountability but I’m not opposed to any accountability. I do believe accountability of some kind should and needs to occur. This behavior needs to be made public, those engaged in the behavior publicly reprimanded, the behavior condemned, suffer public embarrassment and an apology issued.

A strong, zero tolerance response from other powerful people as well as from us regular scrub voters, is visible to the entire country. That is a step in the right direction. If you want to support a racist status quo until a perfect remedy is available, you're on the wrong side of history. How's that for putting words in your mouth? Because that's what you sound like to me.

A vitriolic diatribe, like the prose quoted above, is great for comic relief, while also demonstrating a lack of a rational reply. Nothing I’ve said supports “racist status quo.”

And “that’s what you sound like to me” is your problem, more specifically your inability to properly comprehend what I said. If you had properly understood what I said, then you’d quickly realize nothing I said can reasonably “sound like” support for “racist status quo.”


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The notion that to not be a "bigot" then one must agree with the kind of accountability called for by some people is devoid of any lucid logic. There certainly can be disagreement as to the kinds of accountability without one being a "bigot." Being a "bigot" does not attach on the untenable basis of nothing more than disagreement about the kind of accountability.

Your false choice argument is not tenable. It is a pathetic argument to say that you are either in agreement with those people who are calling for a specific kind accountability OR a bigot. That is undoubtedly nonsense.

And this is the exact conversation which the Democratic Party needs to be having. There needs to be some sort of process of determining what kind of accountability is necessary in a given set of circumstances and have these rules (or at least guidelines) apply when those circumstances arise. The fact that they didn't is what made this whole episode one giant clusterfuck which just got worse with each passing day.

The Dems have had at least a year to talk amongst themselves and come up with a way of dealing with this, but they have not done so and have been caught flatfooted as a result and they need to change that. They know that this is not the last prominent Democrat who will be found to have racist incidents in his past. They know that this is not the last prominent Democrat who will face credible allegations of sexual misconduct. What is unclear is what they will do when these next arise and that needs to be clear.

It needs to be an open discussion in the Party and they need to come up with some guidelines along the lines of "If you do A, B, or C, you're fucking out. Don't whine about it, don't complain - just leave. If you do D, E, or F, we've got your back. If you do something else, we'll figure it out at the time but if we hear about it from a right wing troll or Russian operative before we hear about it from you, you're fucking out".

What they can't have is a repeat of what's happening now in Virginia.

Good post. I agree. They need to have that dialogue and a lack of such a dialogue has plagued them when addressing instances such as those by AG, and Northam before he had the appearance of lying, both rather grey areas, or as Volokh said “minor” offenses.


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I found an interesting piece that might explain why so many white people have been clueless about blackface. Basically, it's because they never learned the history of minstrels.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/arts/blackface-american-pop-culture.html


A partial list of people who have appeared in blackface on screen and stage in the 186 years since Rice’s performance on the Bowery includes: Desi Arnaz, Fred Astaire, Dan Aykroyd, Freeman Gosden and Charles Correll (from “Amos ‘n’ Andy”), Ethel Barrymore, Milton Berle, Jimmy Cagney, Joan Crawford, Bing Crosby, Billy Crystal, Ted Danson, Marion Davies, Robert Downey Jr., Judy Garland, Alec Guinness, Stan Laurel, Oliver Hardy, Benny Hill, Bob Hope, Boris Karloff, Buster Keaton, Hedy Lamarr, Janet Leigh, Harold Lloyd, Sophia Loren, Myrna Loy, the Marx Brothers, David Niven, Laurence Olivier, Will Rogers, Mickey Rooney, Frank Sinatra, Grace Slick, Spencer Tracy, Shirley Temple, John Wayne, Mae West, Gene Wilder and the Three Stooges.



“Its longevity is because it’s been institutionalized into every aspect of American life,” Dr. Barnes said. “People have perpetuated blackface because we don’t teach minstrel history. If these people had ever been exposed to it in a safe classroom environment, they would know better.”

Judging from not only various records of campus life but also the numerous Instagram accounts of women appearing as “black” personalities — a phenomenon known as “blackfishing” — many do not know better.

The popularity of blackface was at its height in the early 20th century and has waned sharply since the ’50s, but it certainly hasn’t disappeared. Rather, it has taken on different forms, perhaps more palatable to modern audiences.

In 1986, “Soul Man” was a major Hollywood release, featuring C. Thomas Howell in blackface, posing as an African-American to reap the rewards of affirmative action. As recently as the early 2000s, Jimmy Kimmel wore blackface on “The Man Show” while doing an impression of the basketball player Karl Malone. He has never apologized for it, and he’s on television five nights a week. And it wasn’t until 2015 that the Metropolitan Opera of New York stopped using makeup to darken the faces of the singers in the lead role of “Othello.”



Wil Haygood, a visiting professor at Miami University (Ohio), has written biographies of Sammy Davis, Jr., Thurgood Marshall and Sugar Ray Robinson. His latest book is “Tigerland: 1968-1969.”


After reading the entire article, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably time to forgive the cluelessness of those who had no idea that wearing blackface was insulting. It was still widely used during the 80s, especially among entertainers, more due to ignorance, not racism.

It would probably be better to look at the current records of politicians, rather than whether or not they ever wore blackface. They were obviously clueless to the point that they had no idea regarding the history of blackface and the racism that it projected. It would help if our schools did a much better job of teaching all children about the history of severe racism that has been present throughout the history of the country. Again, I strongly recommend the book, "White Rage", for anyone who wants a better understanding of how damaging racism has been to the African American population. It's impact continues today.

If you can access the link, the article is very interesting and explains in more detail how deeply blackface became incorporated into American culture. Hopefully, this latest scandal has taught us something important.
 
The main question to ask is whether or not there's anybody in the Virginia Democratic Party who hasn't sexually assaulted people or had documented instances of severe racism in their past? It's starting to look like the answer to that is "No, there isn't". They may need to have a disabled black lady from Vermont come in as a carpet bagger and rent an apartment in ... whatever a city name in Virginia is - I don't feel like googling that right now - so that she can take over.

Regardless of how fair or unfair it is to the three individuals involved, the Dems have lost the narrative on this issue and need to close it off so that the party can move forward with other things. A discussion of how to properly handle things like this needs to be done, but the place for that discussion is in a historical review, not while the national Democratic agenda is sidelined by these dolts. The first thing which needs to happen is that the Lt Governor needs to discover a deep and pressing need to spend more time with his family. Then the Governor needs to appoint the blandest motherfucker imaginable imaginable as the interim Lt Governor. Before that appointment, the Democratic leadership in the state needs to ask the new guy if there are any awkward skeletons in his or her closet which right wing trolls can find. They need to make clear that if he says no and then a news story about one pops up, they will walk into his office and shoot him in the fucking face. After that, the Governor resigns, new guy becomes new Governor and appoints new Lt and then AG dude resigns.

Not just the Dems:

Virginia Republican embroiled in blackface scandal

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47162714
 
Why do you respond to my post like that? I certainly don't focus on Republicans when Democrats are obviously not innocent. In fact, I've gotten quite a lot of argument from people in this thread for saying that our Dem governor should resign for this very thing.

Just because the worst behavior actually does pool on the right doesn't mean I am willing to overlook the same shit from the party I typically support.

Allow me to clarify:

Fucking Republicans, man. There’s something wrong with the people in that one party. Let’s focus on that. :)

Still not clear where the joke/point is. She said "WTF, Virginia!?!", not "WTF, Republicans!?!"
 
I found an interesting piece that might explain why so many white people have been clueless about blackface. Basically, it's because they never learned the history of minstrels.
The question is, why should an obscure cultural phenomenon from a century ago dictate what is acceptable in perpetuity?

I strongly believe that we will never move on with racial issues in this country until we let go of this kind of thinking. As long as it is denied that blacks can be racist, no matter what they say or do, while at the same time being hypersensitive toward real and imagined racism by whites, true racial equality cannot be achieved.

By the way, a second woman is accusing Fairfax. Don't know if she is telling the truth or lying, but this is becoming more like Kavenaugh. Except there will not be any grilling in the Senate...
 
...an obscure cultural phenomenon from a century ago...

It isn't. I know some older folks who still laugh up a storm over these kinds of caricatures.

Some day within the next few decades you may be right, just not yet.
 
This is actually reminding of the "Stoning for Blasphemy" scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian with the Republicans playing the part of the two Roman soldiers at the end of the scene that just look at each other and shake their heads.
 
Blacks support Northam staying more than whites do, even among Democrats.

northamwapopoll700.jpg


northamwapopoll-demleanersjpg.JPG
 
Those numbers are likely out of date. The radio said the poll ended just before the second sexual misconduct for the Lt Gov came out. Many Virginians now want him to stay until the Lt Gov steps down, THEN appoint a new Lt. and then Northam step down so the new Lt can take over.
 
Those numbers are likely out of date. The radio said the poll ended just before the second sexual misconduct for the Lt Gov came out. Many Virginians now want him to stay until the Lt Gov steps down, THEN appoint a new Lt. and then Northam step down so the new Lt can take over.
Man, I know I'd be livid if the Republicans performed that maneuver. Though, based on the polling, looks African Americans aren't up in arms over the issue with Northam.
 
Those numbers are likely out of date. The radio said the poll ended just before the second sexual misconduct for the Lt Gov came out. Many Virginians now want him to stay until the Lt Gov steps down, THEN appoint a new Lt. and then Northam step down so the new Lt can take over.
Man, I know I'd be livid if the Republicans performed that maneuver. Though, based on the polling, looks African Americans aren't up in arms over the issue with Northam.

It seems like a viable maneuver. The voters elected Democrats to these offices and so any plan which involves replacing them should be structured so that Democrats continue to hold those offices.
 
Wasn't slavery not made legal in Jamestown for 21 more years?

Yeah, people are overblowing this comment. He wasn't trying to minimize slavery, but trying to be accurate. The first Africans brought there were indentured and later freed. Though to be more accurate, he should have said they were kidnapped and brought there.
 
Yeah, people are overblowing this comment. He wasn't trying to minimize slavery, but trying to be accurate. The first Africans brought there were indentured and later freed. Though to be more accurate, he should have said they were kidnapped and brought there.

Regardless, it was a poor time for him to need to parse out his words in order to explain to people how he wasn't being racist.
 
Pretty sure the "Babylon Bee" is a worse news source than The Onion. Check your sources.

Oh wait, it was dismal that posted it. It agrees with his biases, so it's fine.....

It seems credible. I can believe she went to college parties in paleface.
ROFL. Finally got around to following up on this. The Babylon Bee is a satire site, like the onion, except that it specializes in 'xian satire'.

So yeah, dismal showing how, well, dismal, his reasoning skills are.
 
Yeah, people are overblowing this comment. He wasn't trying to minimize slavery, but trying to be accurate. The first Africans brought there were indentured and later freed. Though to be more accurate, he should have said they were kidnapped and brought there.

Regardless, it was a poor time for him to need to parse out his words in order to explain to people how he wasn't being racist.
Yeah, the issue is they were FORCED... maybe not into slavery, but into indentured servitude. Regardless, Northam hasn't done much to help his case, which admittedly, is the lesser of two evils among him and the Lt. Gov.
 
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