A Strong Rebuke To Those Calling For Northam To Resign

[Angry Floof]

Yes. The attorney general’s conduct doesn’t constitute as “severe racism” and neither does Northam’s. Indeed, neither conduct appears to be based on “racism” necessarily, although certainly the actions are racially insensitive.

That's a great example of compartmentalism. It was based in systemic and cultural racism, which so many people seem to want to preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism.

Is for some Dems, maybe the Democratic Party, to descend from its sanctimonious high horse, cease charading as Maximilien Robespierre and sending its politicians to the political guillotine for apparently all prior mistakes of this type, and understand not every transgression of this kind, committed in the past, needs to result in demand for the politicians heads!

Yes, it does. At least, most of the time it does. For the most part, Dems are doing exactly as they should - calling for accountability. I hope we continue to see this unwillingness to give bigotry a pass.

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Is for some Dems, maybe the Democratic Party, to descend from its sanctimonious high horse, cease charading as Maximilien Robespierre and sending its politicians to the political guillotine for apparently all prior mistakes of this type, and understand not every transgression of this kind, committed in the past, needs to result in demand for the politicians heads!

Correct. This current situation isn't the one to do it in, though. They didn't take the time to have the conversation about how to deal with these things beforehand, so they lost the narrative and the Virginia Democractic Party is now nothing more than a sad joke as a result and, regardless of how this conversation goes, it's not going to stop being anything other than a sad joke with the current leadership still around. That sucks for three people, but it's not an excuse to derail the entire national Democratic agenda because these people remain as prominent members of the party. You can't campaign on a platform of "Vote for us to get rid of the incompetent idiots" if you're on the stage with a group of incompetent idiots. They need to cut their losses with these dolts and then actually have this conversation.

Yes, they need to do exactly what many of them are doing - calling for accountability.

 

[Angry Floof]

True. Republicans love it when people they hate act like them. It's the party of "No, YOU." They understand deflection very well but accountability is some kind of mortal sin. Much easier than self reflection or conscience.

 

[ZiprHead]

Pretty sure the "Babylon Bee" is a worse news source than The Onion. Check your sources.

Oh wait, it was dismal that posted it. It agrees with his biases, so it's fine.....

It seems credible. I can believe she went to college parties in paleface.

Do you mean just "face"?

 

[James Madison]

That's a great example of compartmentalism. It was based in systemic and cultural racism, which so many people seem to want to preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism.

Yes, it does. At least, most of the time it does. For the most part, Dems are doing exactly as they should - calling for accountability. I hope we continue to see this unwillingness to give bigotry a pass.

- - - Updated - - -

Is for some Dems, maybe the Democratic Party, to descend from its sanctimonious high horse, cease charading as Maximilien Robespierre and sending its politicians to the political guillotine for apparently all prior mistakes of this type, and understand not every transgression of this kind, committed in the past, needs to result in demand for the politicians heads!

Correct. This current situation isn't the one to do it in, though. They didn't take the time to have the conversation about how to deal with these things beforehand, so they lost the narrative and the Virginia Democractic Party is now nothing more than a sad joke as a result and, regardless of how this conversation goes, it's not going to stop being anything other than a sad joke with the current leadership still around. That sucks for three people, but it's not an excuse to derail the entire national Democratic agenda because these people remain as prominent members of the party. You can't campaign on a platform of "Vote for us to get rid of the incompetent idiots" if you're on the stage with a group of incompetent idiots. They need to cut their losses with these dolts and then actually have this conversation.

Yes, they need to do exactly what many of them are doing - calling for accountability.

That's a great example of compartmentalism. It was based in systemic and cultural racism, which so many people seem to want to preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism.

I do not care for the tangent. Neither myself, nor the author of the article, make any claims of wanting to "preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism."

Dems are doing exactly as they should - calling for accountability. I hope we continue to see this unwillingness to give bigotry a pass.

Again, neither myself or Volokh are arguing against accountability and neither have I advocated "to give bigotry a pass."

 

[Angry Floof]

That's a great example of compartmentalism. It was based in systemic and cultural racism, which so many people seem to want to preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism.

Yes, it does. At least, most of the time it does. For the most part, Dems are doing exactly as they should - calling for accountability. I hope we continue to see this unwillingness to give bigotry a pass.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, they need to do exactly what many of them are doing - calling for accountability.

That's a great example of compartmentalism. It was based in systemic and cultural racism, which so many people seem to want to preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism.

I do not care for the tangent. Neither myself, nor the author of the article, make any claims of wanting to "preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism."

Dems are doing exactly as they should - calling for accountability. I hope we continue to see this unwillingness to give bigotry a pass.

Again, neither myself or Volokh are arguing against accountability and neither have I advocated "to give bigotry a pass."

Whether you openly advocate giving bigotry a pass or not, by criticizing the people calling for accountability, that's the side you're on. Your sanctimonious high horse mainly just protects powerful white men and perpetuates oppression and brutalization of people of color.

 

[James Madison]

I do not care for the tangent. Neither myself, nor the author of the article, make any claims of wanting to "preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism."

Dems are doing exactly as they should - calling for accountability. I hope we continue to see this unwillingness to give bigotry a pass.

Again, neither myself or Volokh are arguing against accountability and neither have I advocated "to give bigotry a pass."

Whether you openly advocate giving bigotry a pass or not, by criticizing the people calling for accountability, that's the side you're on. Your sanctimonious high horse mainly just protects powerful white men and perpetuates oppression and brutalization of people of color.

by criticizing the people calling for accountability, that's the side you're on.

The notion that to not be a "bigot" then one must agree with the kind of accountability called for by some people is devoid of any lucid logic. There certainly can be disagreement as to the kinds of accountability without one being a "bigot." Being a "bigot" does not attach on the untenable basis of nothing more than disagreement about the kind of accountability.

Your false choice argument is not tenable. It is a pathetic argument to say that you are either in agreement with those people who are calling for a specific kind accountability OR a bigot. That is undoubtedly nonsense.

 

[Toni]

That's a great example of compartmentalism. It was based in systemic and cultural racism, which so many people seem to want to preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism.

Yes, it does. At least, most of the time it does. For the most part, Dems are doing exactly as they should - calling for accountability. I hope we continue to see this unwillingness to give bigotry a pass.

- - - Updated - - -

Is for some Dems, maybe the Democratic Party, to descend from its sanctimonious high horse, cease charading as Maximilien Robespierre and sending its politicians to the political guillotine for apparently all prior mistakes of this type, and understand not every transgression of this kind, committed in the past, needs to result in demand for the politicians heads!

Correct. This current situation isn't the one to do it in, though. They didn't take the time to have the conversation about how to deal with these things beforehand, so they lost the narrative and the Virginia Democractic Party is now nothing more than a sad joke as a result and, regardless of how this conversation goes, it's not going to stop being anything other than a sad joke with the current leadership still around. That sucks for three people, but it's not an excuse to derail the entire national Democratic agenda because these people remain as prominent members of the party. You can't campaign on a platform of "Vote for us to get rid of the incompetent idiots" if you're on the stage with a group of incompetent idiots. They need to cut their losses with these dolts and then actually have this conversation.

Yes, they need to do exactly what many of them are doing - calling for accountability.

They're calling for resignations, which is not exactly the same thing as accountability.

Having done something stupid or insensitive or even racist by today's standards (which are different than the standards of 30 years ago) when you were a kid or a young adult is not the same thing as never, ever, ever being worthy of holding political office.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The notion that to not be a "bigot" then one must agree with the kind of accountability called for by some people is devoid of any lucid logic. There certainly can be disagreement as to the kinds of accountability without one being a "bigot." Being a "bigot" does not attach on the untenable basis of nothing more than disagreement about the kind of accountability.

Your false choice argument is not tenable. It is a pathetic argument to say that you are either in agreement with those people who are calling for a specific kind accountability OR a bigot. That is undoubtedly nonsense.

And this is the exact conversation which the Democratic Party needs to be having. There needs to be some sort of process of determining what kind of accountability is necessary in a given set of circumstances and have these rules (or at least guidelines) apply when those circumstances arise. The fact that they didn't is what made this whole episode one giant clusterfuck which just got worse with each passing day.

The Dems have had at least a year to talk amongst themselves and come up with a way of dealing with this, but they have not done so and have been caught flatfooted as a result and they need to change that. They know that this is not the last prominent Democrat who will be found to have racist incidents in his past. They know that this is not the last prominent Democrat who will face credible allegations of sexual misconduct. What is unclear is what they will do when these next arise and that needs to be clear.

It needs to be an open discussion in the Party and they need to come up with some guidelines along the lines of "If you do A, B, or C, you're fucking out. Don't whine about it, don't complain - just leave. If you do D, E, or F, we've got your back. If you do something else, we'll figure it out at the time but if we hear about it from a right wing troll or Russian operative before we hear about it from you, you're fucking out".

What they can't have is a repeat of what's happening now in Virginia.

 

[Angry Floof]

That's a great example of compartmentalism. It was based in systemic and cultural racism, which so many people seem to want to preserve or at the very least ignore and pretend it has nothing to do with severe racism.

Yes, it does. At least, most of the time it does. For the most part, Dems are doing exactly as they should - calling for accountability. I hope we continue to see this unwillingness to give bigotry a pass.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, they need to do exactly what many of them are doing - calling for accountability.

They're calling for resignations, which is not exactly the same thing as accountability.

Having done something stupid or insensitive or even racist by today's standards (which are different than the standards of 30 years ago) when you were a kid or a young adult is not the same thing as never, ever, ever being worthy of holding political office.

Two things. Accountability is not about Northam personally. It's about giving a pass on a large and nationally visible scale. We need that. That's what society wide accountability for racist behavior looks like, regardless of the specific circumstances.

As for Northam personally, he certainly should resign for the specific circumstances. He lied and tried to weasel his way out of it. He essentially slapped his black voters in the face with his response. He does need to go, for reasons that apply to him personally.

The AG who admitted to the same thing demonstrated accountability. I would not call for his resignation. If black Virginians on the whole wanted him to resign, too, I would support them in that. They are the ones harmed by the blatant hate message of blackface, whether the perpetrators understood that that's what they were doing at the time or not. But I actually applaud his response. People might accuse him of simply getting out in front of it, but that sort of shallow, self-serving motive doesn't exactly produce the kind of humility and vulnerability that his response showed.

Either way, severely challenging any instance of racist behavior among powerful white men is what accountability looks like in our society. Anything less than a hard fight only serves systemic racism.

 

[Angry Floof]

Whether you openly advocate giving bigotry a pass or not, by criticizing the people calling for accountability, that's the side you're on. Your sanctimonious high horse mainly just protects powerful white men and perpetuates oppression and brutalization of people of color.

by criticizing the people calling for accountability, that's the side you're on.

The notion that to not be a "bigot" then one must agree with the kind of accountability called for by some people is devoid of any lucid logic. There certainly can be disagreement as to the kinds of accountability without one being a "bigot." Being a "bigot" does not attach on the untenable basis of nothing more than disagreement about the kind of accountability.

Your false choice argument is not tenable. It is a pathetic argument to say that you are either in agreement with those people who are calling for a specific kind accountability OR a bigot. That is undoubtedly nonsense.

NO, I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

A strong, zero tolerance response from other powerful people as well as from us regular scrub voters, is visible to the entire country. That is a step in the right direction. If you want to support a racist status quo until a perfect remedy is available, you're on the wrong side of history. How's that for putting words in your mouth? Because that's what you sound like to me.

Northam himself is not even relevant to this discussion other than he happens to be the one who engaged in racist behavior and then tried to weasel his way out of responsibility. His comfort is not a factor in this debate.

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The notion that to not be a "bigot" then one must agree with the kind of accountability called for by some people is devoid of any lucid logic. There certainly can be disagreement as to the kinds of accountability without one being a "bigot." Being a "bigot" does not attach on the untenable basis of nothing more than disagreement about the kind of accountability.

Your false choice argument is not tenable. It is a pathetic argument to say that you are either in agreement with those people who are calling for a specific kind accountability OR a bigot. That is undoubtedly nonsense.

And this is the exact conversation which the Democratic Party needs to be having. There needs to be some sort of process of determining what kind of accountability is necessary in a given set of circumstances and have these rules (or at least guidelines) apply when those circumstances arise. The fact that they didn't is what made this whole episode one giant clusterfuck which just got worse with each passing day.

The Dems have had at least a year to talk amongst themselves and come up with a way of dealing with this, but they have not done so and have been caught flatfooted as a result and they need to change that. They know that this is not the last prominent Democrat who will be found to have racist incidents in his past. They know that this is not the last prominent Democrat who will face credible allegations of sexual misconduct. What is unclear is what they will do when these next arise and that needs to be clear.

It needs to be an open discussion in the Party and they need to come up with some guidelines along the lines of "If you do A, B, or C, you're fucking out. Don't whine about it, don't complain - just leave. If you do D, E, or F, we've got your back. If you do something else, we'll figure it out at the time but if we hear about it from a right wing troll or Russian operative before we hear about it from you, you're fucking out".

What they can't have is a repeat of what's happening now in Virginia.

And that is precisely the process we are in. It's messy, but it's not utter chaos.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

And that is precisely the process we are in. It's messy, but it's not utter chaos.

I would call it utter chaos. Namely because they have absolutely no system in place to deal with it, despite the clear knowledge beforehand that they need a system in place to deal with it.

 

[Angry Floof]

And that is precisely the process we are in. It's messy, but it's not utter chaos.

I would call it utter chaos. Namely because they have absolutely no system in place to deal with it, despite the clear knowledge beforehand that they need a system in place to deal with it.

You want them to go through a process of defining just that or do you expect them to already have one and if they don't, they're fucked?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

And that is precisely the process we are in. It's messy, but it's not utter chaos.

I would call it utter chaos. Namely because they have absolutely no system in place to deal with it, despite the clear knowledge beforehand that they need a system in place to deal with it.

You want them to go through a process of defining just that or do you expect them to already have one and if they don't, they're fucked?

They need to go through the process of defining that because they're fucked when they don't. This can be seen in the current case. If candidates agree beforehand that they are out of a job if they do A, B or C, then you don't get situations like you have right now where everyone is calling on him to resign and he just says "No. I won't" and then the situation just lingers without any resolution. That's much more difficult for him to do if he's made a public commitment to step down in these cases. Similarly, if some people are calling on someone to step down but the party has agreed this is a situation that requires a mea culpa press tour and no less than four public moonwalks then they have a stronger position to say that they have the guy's back and he's still a valued member of the Democratic party with a good career ahead of him.

Given that they knew beforehand that they'd need to deal with something like this and don't seem to have taken any steps on deciding how to deal with it, that's a fairly large miss on their part.

 

[Angry Floof]

You want them to go through a process of defining just that or do you expect them to already have one and if they don't, they're fucked?

They need to go through the process of defining that because they're fucked when they don't. This can be seen in the current case. If candidates agree beforehand that they are out of a job if they do A, B or C, then you don't get situations like you have right now where everyone is calling on him to resign and he just says "No. I won't" and then the situation just lingers without any resolution. That's much more difficult for him to do if he's made a public commitment to step down in these cases. Similarly, if some people are calling on someone to step down but the party has agreed this is a situation that requires a mea culpa press tour and no less than four public moonwalks then they have a stronger position to say that they have the guy's back and he's still a valued member of the Democratic party with a good career ahead of him.

Given that they knew beforehand that they'd need to deal with something like this and don't seem to have taken any steps on deciding how to deal with it, that's a fairly large miss on their part.

That's exactly what I think will likely emerge from this. But I do hope they prioritize undoing Trump's destruction and not let the volatile nature of Virginia's naked racism overwhelm that.

 

[PyramidHead]

Loving how the state of Virginia is scrambling to find a single Dem in the line of succession who hasn't worn blackface or sexually assaulted someone. You can't make this shit up

 

[Angry Floof]

WTF, Virginia!?!

The Republican majority leader of Virginia’s state Senate was the managing editor of a college yearbook featuring photos of people in blackface alongside other racist snapshots and slurs, according to a new report.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

WTF, Virginia!?!

The Republican majority leader of Virginia’s state Senate was the managing editor of a college yearbook featuring photos of people in blackface alongside other racist snapshots and slurs, according to a new report.

Fucking Republicans, man. There’s something wrong with the people in that one party. Let’s focus on that.

 

[Angry Floof]

WTF, Virginia!?!

The Republican majority leader of Virginia’s state Senate was the managing editor of a college yearbook featuring photos of people in blackface alongside other racist snapshots and slurs, according to a new report.

Fucking Republicans, man. There’s something wrong with the people in that one party. Let’s focus on that.

Why do you respond to my post like that? I certainly don't focus on Republicans when Democrats are obviously not innocent. In fact, I've gotten quite a lot of argument from people in this thread for saying that our Dem governor should resign for this very thing.

Just because the worst behavior actually does pool on the right doesn't mean I am willing to overlook the same shit from the party I typically support.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

WTF, Virginia!?!

The Republican majority leader of Virginia’s state Senate was the managing editor of a college yearbook featuring photos of people in blackface alongside other racist snapshots and slurs, according to a new report.

Fucking Republicans, man. There’s something wrong with the people in that one party. Let’s focus on that.

Why do you respond to my post like that? I certainly don't focus on Republicans when Democrats are obviously not innocent. In fact, I've gotten quite a lot of argument from people in this thread for saying that our Dem governor should resign for this very thing.

Just because the worst behavior actually does pool on the right doesn't mean I am willing to overlook the same shit from the party I typically support.

Allow me to clarify:

Fucking Republicans, man. There’s something wrong with the people in that one party. Let’s focus on that.

 

[Angry Floof]

Why do you respond to my post like that? I certainly don't focus on Republicans when Democrats are obviously not innocent. In fact, I've gotten quite a lot of argument from people in this thread for saying that our Dem governor should resign for this very thing.

Just because the worst behavior actually does pool on the right doesn't mean I am willing to overlook the same shit from the party I typically support.

Allow me to clarify:

Fucking Republicans, man. There’s something wrong with the people in that one party. Let’s focus on that.

That doesn't clarify anything regarding this thread about racist behavior.