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ACLU Wins - Federal Judge Just Issued A Stay Against Trump's Muslim Ban

good post.

The Chinese Exclusion Acts while they surely would be ruled unconstitutional if made now were real laws.

I think that most of us not being lawyers are having a hard time parsing the legal arguments.

If this Trump policy had come from a law passed by congress instead, would it be overturned?

President Trump is acting pursuant to a federal statute allowing him to "suspend the entry of all aliens or class of aliens" if he determines and/or believes their entry "would be detrimental to the interests of the United States."

Many Presidents have invoked this statutory power, including former President Obama, but none of them exercised the power as broadly as Trump did in his EO.

This post shouldn't be construed as an endorsement of the EO. I'm just illuminating the fact Trump has invoked statutory authority for his EO.


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President Trump is acting pursuant to a federal statute allowing him to "suspend the entry of all aliens or class of aliens" if he determines and/or believes their entry "would be detrimental to the interests of the United States."

Many Presidents have invoked this statutory power, including former President Obama, but none of them exercised the power as broadly as Trump did in his EO.

This post shouldn't be construed as an endorsement of the EO. I'm just illuminating the fact Trump has invoked statutory authority for his EO.


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But he has offered no argument to show how he *determined* their entry would be detrimental. Everything put forward so far has been erroneous. Simply saying they are from an arab country is not enough. If he were to highlight specific people that'd be one thing. But should a country of origin be considered a "class"?
 
President Trump is acting pursuant to a federal statute allowing him to "suspend the entry of all aliens or class of aliens" if he determines and/or believes their entry "would be detrimental to the interests of the United States."

Many Presidents have invoked this statutory power, including former President Obama, but none of them exercised the power as broadly as Trump did in his EO.

This post shouldn't be construed as an endorsement of the EO. I'm just illuminating the fact Trump has invoked statutory authority for his EO.


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But he has offered no argument to show how he *determined* their entry would be detrimental.

He doesn't have to. The power to determine such things is vested in him.
 
But he has offered no argument to show how he *determined* their entry would be detrimental.

He doesn't have to. The power to determine such things is vested in him.

But he has the burden of demonstrating that he actually has determined it. Simply saying that it is detrimental isn't enough. For example, if there is specific intelligence that people from these countries are planning on performing acts of terror in the United States and the only way to prevent that is to ban *all* people from these countries, then fine, he doesn't have to show us the intelligence, but he has the moral, if not the legal, obligation to state that there is a reason. As the judge who issued the stay said it has to be based on reason.

He simply can't say that because they are Muslim that their entry is detrimental. He has offered no even general argument as to why this might be true. That is what the resistance is about. The President can't simply do whatever he wants and then just say "national security" to cover it up.
 
He doesn't have to. The power to determine such things is vested in him.

But he has the burden of demonstrating that he actually has determined it. Simply saying that it is detrimental isn't enough. For example, if there is specific intelligence that people from these countries are planning on performing acts of terror in the United States and the only way to prevent that is to ban *all* people from these countries, then fine, he doesn't have to show us the intelligence, but he has the moral, if not the legal, obligation to state that there is a reason. As the judge who issued the stay said it has to be based on reason.

He simply can't say that because they are Muslim that their entry is detrimental. He has offered no even general argument as to why this might be true. That is what the resistance is about. The President can't simply do whatever he wants and then just say "national security" to cover it up.

In all fairness, being functionally illiterate does limit his ability to demonstrate anything, let alone argue effectively for it. All he can really do is scream "Islamic terrorists! You know what I mean! They chop off heads!". And that is sufficient for his base. Being insulated from facts by his functional illiteracy, the bigly props from his base validate his every idiotic move.
 
Trump's DOJ will argue 1.) The reasons for the EO are irrelevant because this is a plenary power and judicial review isn't appropriate and 2.) The government cannot, presently, properly tell friend from foe in these 7 countries and so, all must be prohibited from traveling to the U.S.

Consider the Chinese Exclusion Acts, which initially forbade Chinese laborers from entering the U.S., and later amended to include many ethnic Chinese regardless of their nationality. The law was challenged and the U.S. Supreme Court, in upholding the law, said, "The power of the government to exclude foreigners from the country whenever, in its judgment, the public interests require such exclusion, has been asserted in repeated instances, and never denied by the executive or legislative departments....
The power of exclusion of foreigners being an incident of sovereignty belonging to the government of the United States as a part of those sovereign powers delegated by the constitution, the right to its exercise at any time when, in the judgment of the government, the interests of the country require it, cannot be granted away or restrained on behalf of any one..."


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But other acts prohibit the exclusion? how are they going to square that circle?
Pretty much by winking. "This isn't a Muslim ban *wink*. This is banning all people in nations that sponsor terrorism in one way or the other.". The question is, will the court swallow the wink.
 
In all fairness, being functionally illiterate does limit his ability to demonstrate anything, let alone argue effectively for it. All he can really do is scream "Islamic terrorists! You know what I mean! They chop off heads!". And that is sufficient for his base. Being insulated from facts by his functional illiteracy, the bigly props from his base validate his every idiotic move.

I don't disagree with you, but as it becomes clear from dismal's post, some people, even not his base, seem to think that the President's power need not be checked in this regard.
 
But other acts prohibit the exclusion? how are they going to square that circle?
Pretty much by winking. "This isn't a Muslim ban *wink*. This is banning all people in nations that sponsor terrorism in one way or the other.". The question is, will the court swallow the wink.

As I said before, the plenary doctrine will have to suffer some diminution because, as those cases reflect, the government may discriminate and treat people differently in the area of immigration although they otherwise wouldn't be permitted outside the realm of immigration.


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He doesn't have to. The power to determine such things is vested in him.

But he has the burden of demonstrating that he actually has determined it. Simply saying that it is detrimental isn't enough. For example, if there is specific intelligence that people from these countries are planning on performing acts of terror in the United States and the only way to prevent that is to ban *all* people from these countries, then fine, he doesn't have to show us the intelligence, but he has the moral, if not the legal, obligation to state that there is a reason. As the judge who issued the stay said it has to be based on reason.

He simply can't say that because they are Muslim that their entry is detrimental. He has offered no even general argument as to why this might be true. That is what the resistance is about. The President can't simply do whatever he wants and then just say "national security" to cover it up.

It's really interesting, and frightening, to note how, since this con artist was sworn in and started issuing diktats with no understanding of how the law works, his supporters and apologists have largely stopped trying to justify his ludicrous "policies." They simply fall back upon the refrain of "he has the power to do it," which, aside from being untrue according to more than one federal judge, dodges the more important question of whether or not he should be in the first place.

But, this should really come as no surprise. After all, authoritarians and their apologists are generally less concerned with building consensus or explaining themselves to others than they are with simply imposing their will and hoping no one has the courage to challenge them.
 
President Trump is acting pursuant to a federal statute allowing him to "suspend the entry of all aliens or class of aliens" if he determines and/or believes their entry "would be detrimental to the interests of the United States."

Many Presidents have invoked this statutory power, including former President Obama, but none of them exercised the power as broadly as Trump did in his EO.

This post shouldn't be construed as an endorsement of the EO. I'm just illuminating the fact Trump has invoked statutory authority for his EO.


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But he has offered no argument to show how he *determined* their entry would be detrimental. Everything put forward so far has been erroneous. Simply saying they are from an arab country is not enough. If he were to highlight specific people that'd be one thing. But should a country of origin be considered a "class"?

Consider the case of Shaughnessy v. Mezei, 345 U.S. 206 (1953).

born in Gibraltar of Hungarian or Rumanian parents and lived in the United States from 1923 to 1948. In May of that year, he sailed for Europe, apparently to visit his dying mother in Rumania. Denied entry there, he remained in Hungary for some 19 months, due to "difficulty in securing an exit permit." Finally, armed with a quota immigration visa issued by the American Consul in Budapest, he proceeded to France and boarded the Ile de France in Le Havre bound for New York. Upon arrival on February 9, 1950, he was temporarily excluded from the United States by an immigration inspector acting pursuant to the Passport Act as amended and regulations thereunder. Pending disposition of his case, he was received at Ellis Island. After reviewing the evidence, the Attorney General, on May 10, 1950, ordered the temporary exclusion to be made permanent without a hearing before a board of special inquiry, on the "basis of information of a confidential nature, the disclosure of which would be prejudicial to the public interest." That determination rested on a finding that respondent's entry would be prejudicial to the public interest for security reasons.​

The Court determined the Attorney General's conduct was permissible and lawful and said:

Courts have long recognized the power to expel or exclude aliens as a fundamental sovereign attribute exercised by the Government's political departments largely immune from judicial control. The Chinese Exclusion Case, 130 U. S. 581 (1889); Fong Yue Ting v. United States, 149 U. S. 698 (1893); United States ex rel. Knauff v. Shaughnessy, 338 U. S. 537 (1950); Harisiades v. Shaughnessy, 342 U. S. 580 (1952). In the exercise of these powers, Congress expressly authorized the President to impose additional restrictions on aliens entering or leaving the United States during periods of international tension and strife. That authorization, originally enacted in the Passport Act of 1918, continues in effect during the present emergency. Under it, the Attorney General, acting for the President, may shut out aliens whose "entry would be prejudicial to the interest of the United States." And he may exclude without a hearing when the exclusion is based on confidential information the disclosure of which may be prejudicial to the public interest. The Attorney General, in this case, proceeded in accord with these provisions; he made the necessary determinations and barred the alien from entering the United States.

The Court went on to say:

But an alien on the threshold of initial entry stands on a different footing: "Whatever the procedure authorized by Congress is, it is due process as far as an alien denied entry is concerned." Knauff v. Shaughnessy, supra, at 338 U. S. 544; Nishimura Ekiu v. United States, 142 U. S. 651, 142 U. S. 660 (1892). And because the action of the executive officer under such authority is final and conclusive, the Attorney General cannot be compelled to disclose the evidence underlying his determinations in an exclusion case;

In such circumstances, we have no difficulty in holding respondent an entrant alien or "assimilated to [that] status" for constitutional purposes. Id. at 344 U. S. 599. That being so, the Attorney General may lawfully exclude respondent without a hearing, as authorized by the emergency regulations promulgated pursuant to the Passport Act. Nor need he disclose the evidence upon which that determination rests. Knauff v. Shaughnessy, 338 U. S. 537.

I am not citing the case for the purpose of expressing my approval of the Court's reasoning/holding or my agreement with the outcome. I am citing the decision because the U.S. Supreme Court case has not been overturned and is relevant in properly assessing the lawfulness of the EO. There are several issues, of course, in applying this decision to the facts of Trump's EO.

1. Does the Immigration and Naturalization Act provide language authorizing the Executive Branch to exclude an "entrant alien" or "assimilated to that status" as the law did in the case of Shaughnessy v. Mezei?
2. Does the Immigration and Naturalization Act have language authorizing the Executive Branch to exclude "alien entrants" on a group basis, such as all people from a nation and/or nations?
3. Does the Immigration and Naturalization Act have language authorizing the Executive Branch to exclude "alien entrants" or " "assimilated to that status" on the basis of nationality and/or be located in a nation?
4. Does the INA require any particular process before exclusion of "alien entrants" or " "assimilated to that status"?

It has been awhile since I read the Immigration and Naturalization Act, so I do not immediately have the answers to these queries.

Of important note, however, and I would be remiss if I did not also mention the following important language from the decision.

"To be sure, a lawful resident alien may not captiously be deprived of his constitutional rights to procedural due process. Kwong Hai Chew v. Colding, 344 U. S. 590, 344 U. S. 601 (1953); cf. Delgadillo v. Carmichael, 332 U. S. 388 (1947). Only the other day, we held that, under some circumstances, temporary absence from our shores cannot constitutionally deprive a returning lawfully resident alien of his right to be heard. Kwong Hai Chew v. Colding, supra. Chew, an alien seaman admitted by an Act of Congress to permanent residence in the United States, signed articles of maritime employment as chief steward on a vessel of American registry with home port in New York City. Though cleared by the Coast Guard for his voyage, on his return from four months at sea, he was "excluded" without a hearing on security grounds. On the facts of that case, including reference to § 307(d)(2) of the Nationality Act of 1940, we felt justified in "assimilating" his status for constitutional purposes to that of continuously present alien residents entitled to hearings at least before an executive or administrative tribunal.
 
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Pretty much by winking. "This isn't a Muslim ban *wink*. This is banning all people in nations that sponsor terrorism in one way or the other.". The question is, will the court swallow the wink.
As I said before, the plenary doctrine will have to suffer some diminution because, as those cases reflect, the government may discriminate and treat people differently in the area of immigration although they otherwise wouldn't be permitted outside the realm of immigration.
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on so many things (or maybe not). This Executive Order wasn't something that the Executive Branch (in aggregate) released, Bannon / minions put it together with a few Congressional staffers and it went out, with no review among the highest qualified people in the field (legal/foreign policy experts).

In general, the Courts don't want to intercede in areas they have little experience. When they want to meddle, they put on some Pink Floyd. They don't want to second guess national security. The problem becomes, this wasn't an actually thought out plan (or even a plan). The Executive Order was banning people who had a legal right to be in the US, the Executive Branch itself was caught by surprise by it. And for all the talk about "extreme vetting", there is no indication there is any plan in development to deal with the threat they allegedly are trying to deal with. This is another one of Trump's "just trust me' things. The Courts don't want to intercede with national security plans, but the Court may intercede if they sniff out that there isn't any actual plan to begin with.
 
As I said before, the plenary doctrine will have to suffer some diminution because, as those cases reflect, the government may discriminate and treat people differently in the area of immigration although they otherwise wouldn't be permitted outside the realm of immigration.
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on so many things (or maybe not). This Executive Order wasn't something that the Executive Branch (in aggregate) released, Bannon / minions put it together with a few Congressional staffers and it went out, with no review among the highest qualified people in the field (legal/foreign policy experts).

In general, the Courts don't want to intercede in areas they have little experience. When they want to meddle, they put on some Pink Floyd. They don't want to second guess national security. The problem becomes, this wasn't an actually thought out plan (or even a plan). The Executive Order was banning people who had a legal right to be in the US, the Executive Branch itself was caught by surprise by it. And for all the talk about "extreme vetting", there is no indication there is any plan in development to deal with the threat they allegedly are trying to deal with. This is another one of Trump's "just trust me' things. The Courts don't want to intercede with national security plans, but the Court may intercede if they sniff out that there isn't any actual plan to begin with.

Again, to achieve the result you outline above, and on the basis you articulated, will require a reversal, and/or distinguishing, and/or just ignoring several Supreme Court decisions, notably the one I cited in my last post of Shaughnessy, which strongly suggests whether there is a plan or not is not a determination to be made by the judiciary. Assuming, of course, the INA gave to Trump the authority to enact the measures he did in the EO.


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This week, the American Civil Liberties Union filed 18 requests under the Freedom of Information Act seeking data on the US Customs and Border Protection service’s implementation of the ban. The group said it acted following press reports that border control officers had detained and deported individuals even after federal courts had ordered a halt to the practice.

“It is imperative that the public learn if federal immigration officials are blatantly defying nationwide federal court orders that block President Trump’s unconstitutional Muslim ban,” said Mitra Ebadolahi, a San Diego-based ACLU attorney.
https://www.ft.com/content/5a12d3e0-ea52-11e6-893c-082c54a7f539

I'm interested in reading how this federal judge, or anyone of the other federal judges in which a challenge to the EO has been filed in their court, addresses the doctrine of Plenary Power in the area of immigration. Based on the existing cases, the Plenary Power doctrine will have to suffer some diminution for a court to render the entire/part of the EO as unconstitutional. Which in my opinion, in regards to the 1st Amendment, this would be an improvement.


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If the courts determined immigration policy it would be a farce. However banning someone for no specific reason who has already been allowed in by way of a visa will be more difficult to enforce.

The courts wouldn't need to determine immigration policy but simply prohibit violations of the 1st Amendment absent a rational basis to do so.

I concur with your view regarding those already visas and/or approved to receive any visa.


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You seem to have a good knowledge of this. Is it okay to ask you if you are trained in law?

I'm an attorney. I specialize in criminal law and constitutional law.


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So then what did you think about the previous posts (plural) in regard to due process and equal protection as it applies to persons in the country who seek citizenship/permanent residence with visas and paperwork not being able to leave and return?

The individuals already possessing visas/green cards cannot likely have them summarily revoked, terminated, and/or suspended by EO, without violating due process, absent a very important government reason to do so. See the cases of Goldberg v Kelly, 397 US 254 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/397/254 and Matthew v Eldridge, https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/424/319 .

The property interest being the green card and visas. A word of caution, however, is that these cases were not decided in the area of immigration, a Plenary Power of the government. However, there is an immigration case where the Court said, in DICTA, the President must enforce immigration law in a manner consistent with the procedures required by Due Process. I'll see if I can find the decision.

A more difficult factual situation to assess is all those individuals having already completed the entire process to receive a green card/visas, but have not yet received them, and are now not receiving them before of the EO. In my view, they are entitled to the visas/green cards, as the EO violates due process by summarily denying them to this group of people, unless a very important reason exists the government can cite.


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Well, I found a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court which is relevant to the due process argument. Based on my reading of the decision a lawful resident alien, who leaves the U.S., temporarily, must be accommodated with a hearing. However, an "entrant alien," someone outside of the U.S. and granted a visa/green card to enter the U.S., can be denied entry by the Executive Branch, without a hearing, when authorized by statute. In Shaughnessy v. Mezei the Court said:

Courts have long recognized the power to expel or exclude aliens as a fundamental sovereign attribute exercised by the Government's political departments largely immune from judicial control. The Chinese Exclusion Case, 130 U. S. 581 (1889); Fong Yue Ting v. United States, 149 U. S. 698 (1893); United States ex rel. Knauff v. Shaughnessy, 338 U. S. 537 (1950); Harisiades v. Shaughnessy, 342 U. S. 580 (1952). In the exercise of these powers, Congress expressly authorized the President to impose additional restrictions on aliens entering or leaving the United States during periods of international tension and strife. That authorization, originally enacted in the Passport Act of 1918, continues in effect during the present emergency. Under it, the Attorney General, acting for the President, may shut out aliens whose "entry would be prejudicial to the interest of the United States." And he may exclude without a hearing when the exclusion is based on confidential information the disclosure of which may be prejudicial to the public interest. The Attorney General, in this case, proceeded in accord with these provisions; he made the necessary determinations and barred the alien from entering the United States.

It is true that aliens who have once passed through our gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law. The Japanese Immigrant Case, 189 U. S. 86, 189 U. S. 100-101 (1903); Wong Yang Sung v. McGrath, 339 U. S. 33, 339 U. S. 49-50 (1950); Kwong Hai Chew v. Colding, 344 U. S. 590, 344 U. S. 598 (1953). But an alien on the threshold of initial entry stands on a different footing: "Whatever the procedure authorized by Congress is, it is due process as far as an alien denied entry is concerned." Knauff v. Shaughnessy, supra, at 338 U. S. 544; Nishimura Ekiu v. United States, 142 U. S. 651, 142 U. S. 660 (1892). And because the action of the executive officer under such authority is final and conclusive, the Attorney General cannot be compelled to disclose the evidence underlying his determinations in an exclusion case;

"it is not within the province of any court, unless expressly authorized by law, to review the determination of the political branch of the Government."

Knauff v. Shaughnessy, supra, at 338 U. S. 543; Nishimura Ekiu v. United States, supra, at 142 U. S. 660. In a case such as this, courts cannot retry the determination of the Attorney General.

Of course, a germane query would be whether the Immigration and Naturalization Act has language authorizing the Executive Branch to issue the kind, scope, and breadth of the travel ban in the EO.
 
One thing of interest I see is the mentioning of the "Attorney General", of whom did nothing to support the ban, in fact told the Justice Department to not defend it. Granted, the new Attorney General is for the ban and once DeVos is approved, Sessions can become Attorney General and not second guess anything. But right now, INS and Homeland Security were actors in this, not as much the Justice Department.
 
https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-courts-could-see-their-way-striking-down-trump-travel-ban

The author presents an "optimistic" perspective of how the judiciary, and perhaps SCOTUS, could render the EO as unlawful, either in its entirety or partially.

While I appreciate that "liberal" judges can and do torture the Constitution until it yields the answer they prefer, this article is very sketchy on exactly how that can be done given the clear precedents and relatively clear statutory authority here.

Assuming they need at least a fig leaf of cover to substitute their policy judgement for the president's, what will that fig leaf be?

The author offers little but handwaving:

"How those decisions have translated on the ground is a question for debate, and there would be similar complexities to reversing the Trump order. But the courts should start putting the Constitution to work in the immigration context as in others."

This, however, is the most problematic point:

Second, and relatedly, is the fact that the order serves no counterterror purpose.

As the Dude would say, "yeah well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man." it's not a "fact". Under the law, we have a decider who gets to decide this and it's Trump.
 
As the Dude would say, "yeah well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man." it's not a "fact". Under the law, we have a decider who gets to decide this and it's Trump.

The courts, not you, will decide whether or not they can intervene. And they definitely should do so, because this EO is a fucking disgrace. The precedents you keep falling back on to avoid having to actually defend this moronic policy exist because we've generally had presidents who had at least some limited understanding the law, unlike this utterly incompetent fuckwit you keep defending.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-hearing-appeal.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — A three-judge federal appeals panel voiced skepticism on Tuesday at the Justice Department’s broad defense of President Trump’s targeted travel ban during arguments over how much power the president has to impose immigration restrictions based on national security concerns.

It was a lively but technical hearing on an issue that has gripped much of the country’s attention — and that of foreign allies and Middle East nations — for the past week. Issued without warning on Jan. 27, just a week after Mr. Trump took office, the executive order disrupted travel and drew protests at the nation’s airports by suspending entry for people from seven predominantly Muslim countries and limiting the nation’s refugee program.

No matter how the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit rules — in an order that is expected within days — an appeal to the United States Supreme Court is likely. That court remains short-handed and could deadlock. A 4-to-4 tie in the Supreme Court would leave the appeals court’s ruling in place.


Of particular note:

“Are you arguing, then, that the president’s decision in that regard is unreviewable?” Judge Michelle T. Friedland asked.

The Justice Department lawyer, August E. Flentje, paused. Then he said yes.


This is what Trump, and those around him want: the ability to abuse executive powers, which have been granted to past presidents under the assumption that they're not fucking crazy, and not be held accountable for it by the courts. We can only hope that the judiciary doesn't allow them to get away with it.
 
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