Afghan "train, advise and assist" 1984 style

[Shadowy Man]

As war goes, the present fuckup isn't worth mentioning, doesn't amount to taking a piss in the ocean. But people do like to use it to make them think their cocks are bigger. And if no cock, then cock envy I suppose.

A little bird tells me you wouldn't be taking this so lightly if the same thing unfolded under Trump's watch.

I’ll admit I would have been harder on Trump than Biden if the exact same scene played out. Keeping in mind that it may have been worse under Trump. But who knows.

Part of why is that Trump had no credibility in my eyes. If he came out and tried to say that the chaos was inevitable I wouldn’t have believed him.

Also, I doubt he would have stood in front of the press and taken all those questions that Biden did and provided reasonable, thoughtful answers as to what happened and what could have happened if they had done things differently.

And I’m not taking it lightly. It’s a massive mess and likely could have been handled better by the Biden administration but I also don’t know all the ins and outs of what happened behind the scenes and what advice Biden was getting and in what information about scenarios he ultimately made his decision. But I do think he did not approach the decision thinking about his ratings, his polls, his fortune, or his re-election.

 

[lpetrich]

Australia evacuates more than 300 overnight from Afghanistan - PM | Reuters

Australia ran four flights into Kabul, Afghanistan, on Saturday night, evacuating more than 300 people, including Australians, Afghan visa holders, New Zealanders, U.S. and British citizens, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Sunday.

The news came after the United States and Germany told their citizens in Afghanistan to avoid travelling to Kabul airport, citing security risks as thousands tried to flee almost a week after Taliban Islamists took control. read more

"We will continue to run those flights, working together with our partners and our allies," Morrison told the Australian Broadcasting Corp (ABC) Insiders program on Sunday.

"We are uplifting not just Australians and Afghan visa holders for Australia, but those from the United Kingdom, the United States and New Zealand."

Australia has now evacuated 550 people from Kabul since Aug 18, and the US, the UK, and EU countries 8,000 people since then.

 

[lpetrich]

CNN on Twitter: "CNN's @ClarissaWard reports on the hurdles Americans and Afghans have been facing trying to get to Kabul's airport as Taliban fighters attempt to block access with gunfire and violence.
(This video has been updated to correct an editing issue.) (links)" / Twitter

Dominick Mastrangelo on Twitter: "NEW: I spoke with @clarissaward about her recent reporting from Kabul for @CNN, which has shed light on the chaotic nature of the U.S. pull-out in Afghanistan and the plight of the scores of Afghans looking to escape the country.
w/@Brett_Samuels27: (link)" / Twitter

CNN's Clarissa Ward has breakthrough media moment in Afghanistan | TheHill

CNN’s Clarissa Ward and her reporting have stood out from the pack amid the chaos in Afghanistan.

Ward, 41, has roamed the streets with her crew for days covering the U.S. withdrawal of troops and the Taliban’s lightning-speed takeover of the country.

Her dispatches from Kabul have shed light on the chaotic nature of the U.S. pullout, the tense mood as the Taliban retakes power and the plight of the scores of Afghan civilians looking for a way out of the country.

“It’s been a pretty mind-bending trip, honestly,” Ward, CNN's chief international correspondent, told The Hill during an exclusive interview this week. “It certainly felt like we had a front-row seat to history and it's an extraordinary moment to witness.”

Clarissa Ward on Twitter: "Soldiers by the runway at Kabul airport tell me that there are 10,000 people here processed and ready to go… but nowhere to fly them to because Qatar is refusing to accept more Afghans because they’ve reached capacity. “It’s abysmal… someone needs to step up.”" / Twitter

Elise Labott on Twitter: ".@vmsalama⁩ scoop: Internal @StateDept⁩ memo sent last month via agency’s confidential dissent channel warned of potential collapse of Kabul soon after US Aug 31 troop withdrawal and offered recommendations to mitigate the crisis, speed up evacuation (link)" / Twitter

Except that Kabul fell well in advance of that.

 

[laughing dog]

There is no reason to think that any withdrawal from Afghanistan would have been handled any better by someone else. It was going to be a massive mess no matter what.

 

[lpetrich]

Somini Sengupta on Twitter: "The peerless ⁦@lynseyaddario⁩ has been documenting the lives of women in Afghanistan for 20 years. Her piece here is riveting. (link)" / Twitter
Linking to "The Atlantic" article: "The Taliban's Return is Catastrophic for Women"

Clarissa Ward on Twitter: "Afghan evacuees try to sleep on the gravel with C17’s in the background. It’s a chilly night and incredibly loud, especially after 14 hours. One Afghan acquaintance tells me “it’s an insult to human dignity… I don’t know why the Americans are doing this.” Photo @BrentSwailsCNN (link)" / Twitter

Clarissa Ward on Twitter: "The fourth bird we were supposed to get on just got pulled. Going to be a long night here, especially for those we are talking to who have been here since yesterday evening. A woman just asked me for a blanket so I gave her my scarf." / Twitter

لولوة الخاطر Lolwah Alkhater on Twitter: "I can only speak on Qatar evacuation missions, they will continue!
In the past 72 hours we evacuated over 300 mostly female students &over 200 media personnel; many of them with their families & kids who are now safe in comfortable accommodation in Doha. (link)" / Twitter
then
Clarissa Ward on Twitter: "Response from Qatar- emphatic that evacuations will continue." / Twitter

Clarissa Ward on Twitter: "On our flight and getting ready for takeoff (pick link)" / Twitter
Inside a military transport with everybody sitting on the floor.

Clarissa Ward on Twitter: "Just landed in Doha with the team and nearly 300 Afghan evacuees. Huge thanks to all of you for your support and concern, to the US Air Force for flying us out and to Qatar for welcoming us. We are the lucky ones." / Twitter

U.S. Marines on Twitter: "A Marine assigned to the 24th MEU calms an infant during an evacuation at #HKIA Kabul, Aug 20.
U.S. service members and coalition partners are assisting the @StateDept with a Non-combatant Evacuation Operation in #Afghanistan.
@USMARCENT @CENTCOM
#Marines (link)" / Twitter
then
Clarissa Ward on Twitter: "I witnessed several moments like this at Kabul airport. A female soldier carrying a weeping Afghan toddler. A Marine supporting an elderly man as he struggled to walk. Servicemen rushing a dehydrated newborn to get medical attention. So many working so hard." / Twitter

Clarissa Ward on Twitter: "Please watch our story from FOB Andar in Ghazni Province. Once a US base, now under the control of the Taliban. What it means for America’s legacy and Afghanistan’s future (link)" / Twitter
then
CNN gets access to old US military base the Taliban seized in Ghazni province - CNN Video

A former US military base is now in the hands of the Taliban as the future of Afghanistan is unclear. CNN's Clarissa Ward reports exclusively from what remains of Combat Outpost Andar in Afghanistan's Ghazni province.
Source: CNN

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Pakistan is supporting the Taliban. If we try to put pressure on Pakistan we will end up throwing Pakistan to the Taliban--and now we have Islamist terrorists with nuclear weapons.

We got Christian terrorists with nuclear weapons and Jewish terrorists with nuclear weapons and Russian terrorists and Chinese terrorists and French terrorists with nuclear weapons.

The Islamic terrorists are part of a great big club.

You have an identification problem.

 

[jonatha]

Yes. First point was that if you have any sort of withdraw plan, you include "pack up the shit in boxes and put it on trucks." They forgot that part. Then there's "the stuff you don't pack up, destroy it."

If you think the Afghan army was ineffective, imagine how well they would have done if we had taken all their materiel away first...

 

[TV and credit cards]

I’ll admit I would have been harder on Trump than Biden if the exact same scene played out. Keeping in mind that it may have been worse under Trump. But who knows.

I do.
He would have sat there watching the news reacting to it like he always did.

He would have had his administration come up with all kinds of excuses why just the Americans could be evacuated.

He would have railed about NGOs because he can not comprehend humanitarianism.

He would have tried to charge them airfare.

Part of why is that Trump had no credibility in my eyes. If he came out and tried to say that the chaos was inevitable I wouldn’t have believed him.

Also, I doubt he would have stood in front of the press and taken all those questions that Biden did and provided reasonable, thoughtful answers as to what happened and what could have happened if they had done things differently.

And I’m not taking it lightly. It’s a massive mess and likely could have been handled better by the Biden administration but I also don’t know all the ins and outs of what happened behind the scenes and what advice Biden was getting and in what information about scenarios he ultimately made his decision. But I do think he did not approach the decision thinking about his ratings, his polls, his fortune, or his re-election.

Trump would not have taken questions other to say “The buck stops there”.

Biden told us what happened. As so often, it is not one factor that led to this situation. It is a combination of knowing the Afghan military would collapse but not knowing it would be this fast. The Afghan govt not wanting to create a panic situation. And, I’m assuming what are mostly humanitarian NGOs wanting to stay and help people until the bitter end. Or perhaps staying still.
https://reliefweb.int/report/afghan...it-means-be-independent-neutral-and-impartial

It’s just so much armchair quarterbacking that is feeding today’s news.

 

[ZiprHead]

There is no reason to think that any withdrawal from Afghanistan would have been handled any better by someone else. It was going to be a massive mess no matter what.

We do know Trump and Miller were actively working against bringing our Afghani allies here. So there's that as a plus for Biden.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yes. First point was that if you have any sort of withdraw plan, you include "pack up the shit in boxes and put it on trucks." They forgot that part. Then there's "the stuff you don't pack up, destroy it."

If you think the Afghan army was ineffective, imagine how well they would have done if we had taken all their materiel away first...

The equipment can be replaced. I'd prioritize people over the equipment.

 

[untermensche]

Pakistan is supporting the Taliban. If we try to put pressure on Pakistan we will end up throwing Pakistan to the Taliban--and now we have Islamist terrorists with nuclear weapons.

We got Christian terrorists with nuclear weapons and Jewish terrorists with nuclear weapons and Russian terrorists and Chinese terrorists and French terrorists with nuclear weapons.

The Islamic terrorists are part of a great big club.

You have an identification problem.

You have been indoctrinated well by your masters.

 

[untermensche]

Trying to enforce our will in Afghanistan was never justified.

Destroying cultures is not justified.

All you can work off is the belief that humans don't want to be oppressed and figure out ways to be constructive as opposed to destructive.

Both Iraq and nation building in Afghanistan arose out of the ignorance and hubris of neocons in the Bush administration.

They are the bad actors.

Not Biden. A stumbling hero.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Trying to enforce our will in Afghanistan was never justified.

Destroying cultures is not justified.

All you can work off is the belief that humans don't want to be oppressed and figure out ways to be constructive as opposed to destructive.

Both Iraq and nation building in Afghanistan arose out of the ignorance and hubris of neocons in the Bush administration.

They are the bad actors.

Not Biden. A stumbling hero.

Well, the Taliban is going to greatly oppress the Afgans moderates. The US pulling out is not good for them. But the real issue is that just like Vietnam, we allied ourselves with the weaker group in a long standing civil war.

 

[funinspace]

Yes. First point was that if you have any sort of withdraw plan, you include "pack up the shit in boxes and put it on trucks." They forgot that part. Then there's "the stuff you don't pack up, destroy it."

If you think the Afghan army was ineffective, imagine how well they would have done if we had taken all their materiel away first...

The equipment can be replaced. I'd prioritize people over the equipment.

I'd like to know just what equipment of any importance and value (as in worth extracting via costly military air lift) people are talking about???

I've read a few articles talking about the Afghan Taliban taking over Afghan army equipment, which is like no duh what else was going to happen, and so what. Would we bomb the weapons we had given the Afghan army/police out of a fear they might just surrender to the Taliban? So WTF is the story here...

 

[marc]

Aaahhh nostalgia....

Reagan dedicating a shuttle launch to the Afghanistan fighters

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/uqZ-ToXjCz0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[thebeave]

As war goes, the present fuckup isn't worth mentioning, doesn't amount to taking a piss in the ocean. But people do like to use it to make them think their cocks are bigger. And if no cock, then cock envy I suppose.

A little bird tells me you wouldn't be taking this so lightly if the same thing unfolded under Trump's watch.

I’ll admit I would have been harder on Trump than Biden if the exact same scene played out. Keeping in mind that it may have been worse under Trump. But who knows.

Part of why is that Trump had no credibility in my eyes. If he came out and tried to say that the chaos was inevitable I wouldn’t have believed him.

Also, I doubt he would have stood in front of the press and taken all those questions that Biden did and provided reasonable, thoughtful answers as to what happened and what could have happened if they had done things differently.

And I’m not taking it lightly. It’s a massive mess and likely could have been handled better by the Biden administration but I also don’t know all the ins and outs of what happened behind the scenes and what advice Biden was getting and in what information about scenarios he ultimately made his decision. But I do think he did not approach the decision thinking about his ratings, his polls, his fortune, or his re-election.

But Biden was largely elected to POTUS because of his many decades of experience in Congress and as VP. So, we have this expectation that he would use that experience and knowledge to make good decisions on military matters, and he would know how to minimize the chaos. That's what makes this whole thing so astounding. With Trump, expectations are low to begin with as he became POTUS with no experience at all in managing a military exercise. As to whether Biden is providing reasonable, thoughtful answers, I guess that's a matter of opinion, but have a look at the full, unedited transcript of his interview with George Stephanopoulos. I don't think it's that great, assuming you can understand what he is even saying at times.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/abc-news-appears-to-have-not-aired-900-words-from-biden-during-interview-on-gma-here-they-are

 

[Shadowy Man]

I’ll admit I would have been harder on Trump than Biden if the exact same scene played out. Keeping in mind that it may have been worse under Trump. But who knows.

Part of why is that Trump had no credibility in my eyes. If he came out and tried to say that the chaos was inevitable I wouldn’t have believed him.

Also, I doubt he would have stood in front of the press and taken all those questions that Biden did and provided reasonable, thoughtful answers as to what happened and what could have happened if they had done things differently.

And I’m not taking it lightly. It’s a massive mess and likely could have been handled better by the Biden administration but I also don’t know all the ins and outs of what happened behind the scenes and what advice Biden was getting and in what information about scenarios he ultimately made his decision. But I do think he did not approach the decision thinking about his ratings, his polls, his fortune, or his re-election.

But Biden was largely elected to POTUS because of his many decades of experience in Congress and as VP. So, we have this expectation that he would use that experience and knowledge to make good decisions on military matters, and he would know how to minimize the chaos. That's what makes this whole thing so astounding. With Trump, expectations are low to begin with as he became POTUS with no experience at all in managing a military exercise. As to whether Biden is providing reasonable, thoughtful answers, I guess that's a matter of opinion, but have a look at the full, unedited transcript of his interview with George Stephanopoulos. I don't think it's that great, assuming you can understand what he is even saying at times.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/abc-news-appears-to-have-not-aired-900-words-from-biden-during-interview-on-gma-here-they-are

I was talking about the questions he was getting from multiple journalists in a press conference just the other day, not an interview with George S. He did very well in my opinion. Certainly compared to the insane ramblings of Trump.

I don’t know enough of the inside information and potential scenarios to know that the chaos wasn’t minimized.

Also, it’s ridiculous to think that even with his experience he would be perfect and immune to criticism from his partisan opponents. Half of Americans don’t even think experience is important for a President so it is hypocritical to then claim his experience should have been a critical factor here.

Please provide any evidence that a Trump pullout would have been less chaotic.

 

[TomC]

Also, it’s ridiculous to think that even with his experience he would be perfect and immune to criticism from his partisan opponents. Half of Americans don’t even think experience is important for a President so it is hypocritical to then claim his experience should have been a critical factor here.

Really this. Afghanistan has been a disaster since Bush II first put it on the back burner to concentrate on invading Iraq and Iran.

I just hope that Biden gets the peace deal with Iran back on track while he's got supporters in Congress.
Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

I’ll admit I would have been harder on Trump than Biden if the exact same scene played out. Keeping in mind that it may have been worse under Trump. But who knows.

Part of why is that Trump had no credibility in my eyes. If he came out and tried to say that the chaos was inevitable I wouldn’t have believed him.

Also, I doubt he would have stood in front of the press and taken all those questions that Biden did and provided reasonable, thoughtful answers as to what happened and what could have happened if they had done things differently.

And I’m not taking it lightly. It’s a massive mess and likely could have been handled better by the Biden administration but I also don’t know all the ins and outs of what happened behind the scenes and what advice Biden was getting and in what information about scenarios he ultimately made his decision. But I do think he did not approach the decision thinking about his ratings, his polls, his fortune, or his re-election.

But Biden was largely elected to POTUS because of his many decades of experience in Congress and as VP. So, we have this expectation that he would use that experience and knowledge to make good decisions on military matters, and he would know how to minimize the chaos. That's what makes this whole thing so astounding. With Trump, expectations are low to begin with as he became POTUS with no experience at all in managing a military exercise. As to whether Biden is providing reasonable, thoughtful answers, I guess that's a matter of opinion, but have a look at the full, unedited transcript of his interview with George Stephanopoulos. I don't think it's that great, assuming you can understand what he is even saying at times.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/abc-news-appears-to-have-not-aired-900-words-from-biden-during-interview-on-gma-here-they-are

I was talking about the questions he was getting from multiple journalists in a press conference just the other day, not an interview with George S. He did very well in my opinion. Certainly compared to the insane ramblings of Trump.

I don’t know enough of the inside information and potential scenarios to know that the chaos wasn’t minimized.

Also, it’s ridiculous to think that even with his experience he would be perfect and immune to criticism from his partisan opponents. Half of Americans don’t even think experience is important for a President so it is hypocritical to then claim his experience should have been a critical factor here.

Please provide any evidence that a Trump pullout would have been less chaotic.

Biden could have avoided chaos if he had a magical method of evacuating all US forces and all their equipment overnight so that the Afghans wouldn't notice. But this would have also have been coordinated with all our allies, their troops and all their equipment. And finally, we'd have to evacuate allow our afghan allies. Whew.... Not sure if even the great David Copperfield could have accomplished that! So, yes, totally agree with you that Trump would not have done any better.

 

[barbos]

I was talking about the questions he was getting from multiple journalists in a press conference just the other day, not an interview with George S. He did very well in my opinion. Certainly compared to the insane ramblings of Trump.

I don’t know enough of the inside information and potential scenarios to know that the chaos wasn’t minimized.

Also, it’s ridiculous to think that even with his experience he would be perfect and immune to criticism from his partisan opponents. Half of Americans don’t even think experience is important for a President so it is hypocritical to then claim his experience should have been a critical factor here.

Please provide any evidence that a Trump pullout would have been less chaotic.

Biden could have avoided chaos if he had a magical method of evacuating all US forces and all their equipment overnight so that the Afghans wouldn't notice. But this would have also have been coordinated with all our allies, their troops and all their equipment. And finally, we'd have to evacuate allow our afghan allies. Whew.... Not sure if even the great David Copperfield could have accomplished that! So, yes, totally agree with you that Trump would not have done any better.

You exterminate your enemy and THEN evacuate. Problem solved.
You don't release your enemies from prison like Trump did.