Afghan "train, advise and assist" 1984 style

[bilby]

You're advocating military action that provides only a minimal PR victory. When has that ever been a sound strategy?

It was a minimal military action. It was a drone strike, and we got two bad guys. I say that's a success.

"Bad guys". A two word phrase used when describing military and/or police actions, that makes it crystal clear that the speaker has failed to teach adulthood, and should have their opinions disregarded.

Fuck me. This is an actual conflict in a real place between real human beings, all of whom are trying to do what they believe to be best.

It's not a spaghetti western, or a 'Tom and Jerry' cartoon.

Every person on Earth has a full and complete life of huge complexity. There are no NPCs, no extras, no poorly written two dimensional moustache-twirling villains. And assuredly no "Bad guys". Just people.

Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things

Terry Pratchett, I shall wear midnight

 

[Patooka]

You're advocating military action that provides only a minimal PR victory. When has that ever been a sound strategy?

It was a minimal military action. It was a drone strike, and we got two bad guys. I say that's a success.

You do know you get the same endorphin rush simply from exercise?

 

[barbos]

You're advocating military action that provides only a minimal PR victory. When has that ever been a sound strategy?

It was a minimal military action. It was a drone strike, and we got two bad guys. I say that's a success.

99998 to go

 

[ZiprHead]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/PAr3NpYVkpI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[TomC]

You're advocating military action that provides only a minimal PR victory. When has that ever been a sound strategy?

It was a minimal military action. It was a drone strike, and we got two bad guys. I say that's a success.

99998 to go

You're assuming that this action subtracted from the total.

All too often, such military responses result in an increase in support. The World's Sole Remaining Superpower is terribly bad at gauging that sort of outcome.
Tom

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Elissa Slotkin on Twitter: "Just a few hours ago, ..." / Twitter

Just a few hours ago, after what has been a tense, 10-day odyssey, Team Slotkin successfully helped evacuate 114 Afghan nationals out of Kabul and to safety. 1/14

Over 70 of these folks were affiliated with Michigan State University, while another 30+ were former Deputy Ministers, staff, and military officers of the former Afghan government who were being threatened and hunted by the Taliban. 2/14

Most of these Afghan nationals were flown this evening to Albania, where, thanks to the generosity of the Albanian government and the expeditious work of diplomats, they will be staying for the foreseeable future. 3/14

My staff worked around the clock to help make it happen, connecting to a broad & often ragtag network of people around the world who felt the fear of these Afghans & stepped up to help. Many had served in Afghanistan & put their energy & frustrations into getting people out. 4/14

The list of people to thank is immense and spans the globe: American and Australian military forces operating in the U.S., Afghanistan, Qatar, and Albania, who continue to bravely carry out the mission despite the serious risks; LTG (ret.) H.R. McMaster and his team… 5/14

…networks of current and former military who helped this group onto buses and safely enter the airport after 23 hours of anxious waiting outside the gates…6/14

…and the NGO community — especially @VitalVoices and @SpiritAmerica, which have supported and received this group of Afghan nationals at the airport in Tirana and is generously supporting their immediate needs as they seek to start their new lives. 7/14

Along the way, individual members of the U.S. Army, Marines, & Air Force, as well as State Dept. foreign service officers, staff at MSU, & friends from my prior work in the national security world stepped up when we were desperate, usually above & beyond any job description. 8/14

.@USAmbAlbania Yuri Kim, who I worked with many years ago, has been exceptional at helping us relocate these Afghan nationals to Albania on exceedingly short notice. 9/14

Over the next few days, my team and I will continue to do our part of the hard work of safely evacuating as many Afghan nationals as possible. Not all will get out, which is heartbreaking. 10/14

As the world witnessed yesterday, this mission is fraught with danger, and our entire nation grieves the loss of the 13 U.S. service members killed in the line of duty, helping others. 11/14

As I told my staff when the Afghan men, women and children were wheels-up from Kabul: in all my years working in war zones, there are few things I’m more proud of than helping these 114 individuals get a new chance at life. 12/14

There are simply no words to convey the pain of running from your own country. 13/14

As a Congresswoman whose family, generations ago, left their home countries seeking a better life, I know that there’s no telling what these resilient people will do with this opportunity. In the hardest of moments, I feel I have seen the best of American ingenuity & grit. 14/14

 

[lpetrich]

Greta Thunberg linked to this:

Get FFF Activists out of Afganistan - a Charities crowdfunding project in Afghanistan by FFF Activists in Risk Zones -- Fridays for Future

"Through their work in climate activism, FFF Afghanistan activists are now at risk under Taliban rule. We’re trying to get them to safety."


Biden vague on whether US gave Taliban list of vulnerable Afghans | Joe Biden News | Al Jazeera - "Official tells Politico news site the names reportedly given to the armed group could serve as a ‘kill list’ for the Taliban."

Taliban planning ‘inclusive caretaker gov’t’ in Afghanistan | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "Taliban sources tell Al Jazeera the government will include leaders from all ethnicities and tribal backgrounds."

Turkey holds first talks with the Taliban in Kabul | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says discussions under way as Turkey decides on a Taliban request to help run Kabul’s airport."

Veteran group says it moved 630 Afghans to Kabul airport: Report | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "The group says it conducted an unofficial mission to evacuate members of the Afghan special forces and their families."

The threat of ISKP in Afghanistan has been underestimated | Asia | Al Jazeera - "The Islamic State’s Afghan affiliate could derail Taliban efforts to establish security and stable rule."

Koran-banger vs. Koran-banger. Seems like fun.

On August 26, two suicide bombers killed 72 Afghans and 13 members of the US military at Kabul airport amid evacuation efforts. The Islamic State in Khorasan Province (ISKP), the Afghanistan affiliate of ISIL (ISIS), claimed responsibility for the brutal attack and thus put itself in the international media spotlight.

Although foreign media started paying attention to this group only now, ISKP has been terrorising Afghans since 2015 and it will continue to do so after the August 31 withdrawal of US troops.

There are two aspects of this attack that need to be considered. First, ISKP attacked the airport primarily to discredit its rival, the Taliban, in yet another escalation of the larger conflict between Sunni extremist armed groups. Second, ISKP made it clear that the Taliban will find it hard to keep its promises to ensure the safety and security of civilians, especially women and minorities under its rule.

 

[lpetrich]

On Afghanistan, Pakistan walks tightrope of optimism and caution | Asia News | Al Jazeera - "Some see Taliban takeover as Islamabad’s preferred outcome, but it may embolden armed groups in the country."

Last UK flight for civilians leaves as Kabul airlift winds down | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "UK armed forces begin to leave Afghanistan and will take a small number of Afghans on remaining flights."

The last British flight evacuating civilians from Afghanistan has left Kabul, bringing to an end an operation that has airlifted almost 15,000 Afghan and British citizens in the two weeks since the Taliban took control.

Britain’s armed forces are now preparing to leave and will take small numbers of Afghan citizens with them on remaining flights this weekend, a defence ministry spokesperson said on Saturday.

Taliban blocks Kabul airport to most as foreign airlifts wane | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "Taliban says it is ready to take over Kabul airport and already holds some positions, but Pentagon denies the claim."

Although most of its allies had finished their evacuation flights, the US said it planned to keep its round-the-clock flights going until the deadline.

According to US government figures, the air bridge allowed for the evacuation of 112,000 Afghans and foreign nations since August 14, the eve of the capture of Kabul by the Taliban, and 117,500 people since late July.

Taliban takeover a ‘body blow’ to Indian interests in Afghanistan | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "Analysts say the Taliban’s return to power is a major setback for India, which cultivated close relations with the outgoing government."

India, under Operation Devi Shakti, has already evacuated more than 800 people from Afghanistan after Kabul was captured by the Taliban.

On Thursday, it could evacuate only 24 of its citizens along with 11 Nepalese nationals in a military aircraft – not the more than 180 it had planned – as others could not reach the airport to board the aircraft.

...
India, which sees the Taliban as a proxy of its archrival Pakistan, had maintained close ties with the Northern Alliance, which defeated the Afghan armed group in 2001 with the help of the US-led NATO forces.

“India has gone from being Kabul’s closest regional partner to one of the region’s most disadvantaged players in an Afghanistan context,” said Michael Kugelman, deputy director of the Asia programme at the US-based Wilson Center.

Veteran Afghan commanders to negotiate with Taliban | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "It will be a challenge for any one force to rule Afghanistan for long without consensus among the many ethnic groups, analysts say."

US says drone kills suicide bombers targeting Kabul airport | Asia News | Al Jazeera - "The vehicle carrying ‘multiple suicide bombers’ from ISIL affiliate hit before they could target the airport, US officials say."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When the US attacked Iraq it allowed the museums to be looted.

Was that due to malice or just incompetence?

Exactly. We fucked up royally in not realizing that things weren't just going to work once we removed the oppression, but that's not the same thing as wanting the bad things to happen.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Insurgent Offensive Bogs Down After Capturing US Humvees

Kabul, Afghanistan — Just days after the Taliban seized control of Afghanistans capital city of Kabul, the group’s lightning offensive has reportedly ground to a halt after the Taliban unsuccessfully attempted to use dozens of captured U.S. M1114 Humvees.

“We were considerably more mobile with Toyota Technicals,” complained Taliban cell leader Ibrahim ibn Abdullah ibn Sabah Al-Rahman. “But once we captured these unreliable monstrosities, our leadership started worrying about our safety.”

“Now we can’t even leave our base without at least four up-armored Humvees and an RPG team, plus we have to have three ground guides with reflective belts every time we are backing out of our parking spot,” Al-Rahman said as he angrily gestured towards a dilapidated Humvee. “And don’t get me started on all the protective gear we have to wear. Even the suicide bombers were told they wouldn’t be getting into paradise if they were caught in one without a helmet, flak, gloves, and flame retardant clothes!”

During the course of the interview, Al-Rahman was interrupted by at least one angry phone call from Taliban leader Haibatullah Akhundzada, demanding to know why none of the Humvees had their drip pans and chock blocks in place.

The M1114 HMMWV, known to the public as the “Humvee” and to the American soldier as “the fucking Humvee,” is the U.S. military’s all-purpose mobile field kitchen, capable of cooking up to six soldiers alive in as many minutes. During the Iraq War, the U.S. discovered that they were also extremely effective at uncovering IEDs, leading to the war-winning strategy of driving over them as frequently as possible.

At the end of the Afghanistan War — in a gesture of revenge — the U.S. abandoned thousands of Humvees in Afghanistan, an act compared to the Soviets seeding millions of land mines, and with similar results once the Taliban began to drive them.

The Humvees were captured by the Taliban on Tuesday after being abandoned by Afghan soldiers unable to locate the vehicles’ keys, which they claimed the U.S. advisers who alerted them to this feature had never provided. Although the Taliban attempted to use the vehicles immediately, they were unable to properly employ them because of the Humvee’s incredibly poor fuel consumption, as well as unsuccessful attempts to obtain spare parts from manufacturer A.M. General in Indiana.

“In the name of the Blessed Prophet, these things are death traps!” exclaimed one of Al-Rahman’s fighters. “How the hell could anyone drive these things around a parking lot, let alone into a combat zone?”

Al-Rahman then reminded him that you go to jihad with the mujahideen you have, not the mujahideen you wish you had.

Following a 35% increase in casualties caused by repeated Humvee rollovers, Haibatullah Akhundzada called a halt to offensive operations, pending a series of mandatory safety classes for Taliban fighters. Taliban sources have vowed that the offensive would resume as soon as the classes had achieved 100% attendance, which would also give them time to capture some wreckers so they could at least tow the Humvees into battle.

The Taliban has also apparently captured a dozen U.S.-made MRAPs from the Afghanistan Army, but after two days had still not figured out how to drive them out of the motor pool.

 

[ZiprHead]

Seen elsewhere:

The last military aircraft with evacuees has left Kabul. A total of 123,000 civilians and 6,000 troops were evacuated from Karzai Airport.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

When the US attacked Iraq it allowed the museums to be looted.

Was that due to malice or just incompetence?

Exactly. We fucked up royally in not realizing that things weren't just going to work once we removed the oppression, but that's not the same thing as wanting the bad things to happen.

Rumsfeld: ~'Boys will be boys.'

Everything about Afghanistan and Iraq really did seem to lead to a single conclusive opinion on the Neocons... they were really bad at nation building. Sure, they were great in manipulating people into thinking Hussein was involved in 9/11 without having W ever saying it explicitly, but when it came to action plans and running foreign Governments, they were quite clueless. After all, they didn't care if the anti-communist monsters we supported murdered their own people... just as long as they weren't Reds.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seen elsewhere:

The last military aircraft with evacuees has left Kabul. A total of 123,000 civilians and 6,000 troops were evacuated from Karzai Airport.

link

So, the US successfully didn't completely fall back on their promises to the Afghan people, primarily those that helped us? Hooray for the gray... area!

 

[ZiprHead]

I understand there are 250 to 300 US citizens that decided to stay. Many of them have duel citizenship and some I assume are devoted to their NGO and think continuing to help the Afghan people is more important. I hope they don't get murdered for doing so.

 

[Derec]

I understand there are 250 to 300 US citizens that decided to stay. Many of them have duel citizenship and some I assume are devoted to their NGO and think continuing to help the Afghan people is more important. I hope they don't get murdered for doing so.

Well, I would advise them to not play any music for starters.
Taliban 'brutally' killed a popular Afghan folk singer just days after it said 'music is forbidden' in Islam, former minister says

The "religion of peace" strikes again ...

 

[Derec]

"Bad guys". A two word phrase used when describing military and/or police actions, that makes it crystal clear that the speaker has failed to teach adulthood, and should have their opinions disregarded.

BS. What is incredibly naïve is the sort of false moral equivalence that refuses to condemn even the worst people.

Fuck me.

Not even with a 10 foot pole!

This is an actual conflict in a real place between real human beings, all of whom are trying to do what they believe to be best.

So were the Nazis.

But I guess they are ok to be described as bad guys, but not any sort of Islamist scum that kills 180 people in a terrorist attack because that's not politically correct.

It's not a spaghetti western, or a 'Tom and Jerry' cartoon.

No, it's the real life and the real world villains do not have the charm of a Darth Vader, Hans Gruber, Hannibal Lecter or Hans Landa ...

Every person on Earth has a full and complete life of huge complexity.

Some people are simpletons. And when they murder 180 people in a terrorist attack, we do not need to ponder any possible "complexity" before we make shish kebob out of them.

There are no NPCs, no extras, no poorly written two dimensional moustache-twirling villains. And assuredly no "Bad guys". Just people.

ISIS comes pretty close to being mustache-twirling villains, even if in their case it's more like beard-twirling. They are most certainly the "bad guys".
And in fact, well-written fictional villains have a much more rich and three-dimensional personalities than most real world terrorists and thugs.

Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things

Terry Pratchett, I shall wear midnight

And what do you mean by including this quote? Are ISIS not evil in your eyes? Are people striking against ISIS terrorists evil in your eyes because they see ISIS as "bad guys"?

 

[bilby]

Some people are simpletons.

I know. And I should know better than to try to have a nuanced debate with them.

 

[lpetrich]

US says drone kills suicide bombers targeting Kabul airport | ISIL/ISIS News | Al Jazeera - "The vehicle carrying ‘multiple suicide bombers’ from ISIL affiliate hit before they could target the airport, US officials say."

Kabul families say children killed in US drone attack | Asia News | Al Jazeera - "Ten people from a Kabul neighbourhood killed in US drone attack – Washington claims ISKP fighters were the target."

Afghan refugee in Australia pleads to return and rescue family | Refugees News | Al Jazeera - "Afghan refugee in Australian detention grows increasingly desperate as US troops withdraws from Afghanistan."

US completes Afghanistan withdrawal as final flight leaves Kabul | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "Last flight signifies the ‘end of the nearly 20-year mission’ in Afghanistan, top United States general says."

General Kenneth McKenzie, commander of US Central Command, said that the US evacuated 79,000 people from Kabul, including 6,000 American citizens, since August 14, a day before the Taliban took control of the city.

“I’m here to announce the completion of our withdrawal from Afghanistan,” McKenzie told reporters during a news briefing at the Pentagon on Monday.

“Tonight’s withdrawal signifies both the end of the military component of the evacuation but also the end of the nearly 20-year mission that began in Afghanistan shortly after September 11, 2001.”

Thus ending nearly 20 years of war.
 List of armed conflicts involving the United States
 List of wars involving the United States
The US has been in longer wars in the past, like against the pre-European population of its land and in occupying some Latin American nations in the early 20th cy.

Taliban celebrates victory as last US troops leave Afghanistan | Taliban News | Al Jazeera - "Taliban hails withdrawal of US forces as a ‘historic moment’ and says the country has now gained ‘full independence’."

 

[lpetrich]

I like this:
Brittany Ramos DeBarros on Twitter: "I’ve fought for this day for so long. ..." / Twitter

I’ve fought for this day for so long.
I thought I would feel relief.
The war needed to end.
But all I can think of is all the people betrayed and abandoned.
The cycles of violence
that will ripple for generations.

My interpreter saved my life & worked for us over 5 yrs. Today his wife & family are in hiding indefinitely. If they had tried to get to the airport they risked being beaten repeatedly by the Taliban only to be turned away by the US at the gate…

For days, weeks, I have poured over confusing State Department “guidance pages.” I submitted his family to every State Department email, form and list I could find. I’ve been met with either no response or auto responses with broken links. I called every organization I could find and they submitted the names to lists that they said with heavy but determined voices probably wouldn’t go anywhere. I’ve called refugee lawyers who said it’s a complete crap shoot with little rhyme or reason and to just try everything. I called half a dozen congressional offices I heard had been able to help with some cases and I didn’t get a single pick up or a call back except from @RepCori’s office who has tried- a testament to the volume of desperation & need left unmet in a withdrawal plan of abandonment.

I’ve listened to troops I deployed with from across the political spectrum, who I haven’t spoken with in years, pour out their devastation on the phone for hours - trying to make meaning in the senselessness of all this. And most gut-wrenchingly I’ve listened to the rage, hurt, betrayal and grief of exhausted, devastated, overwhelmed but courageous Afghan diaspora organizers trying to save lives where our government failed, telling us the Department of Defense called & asked them what to do.

I came back from Afghanistan knowing we were doing more harm than good overall. I’ve known since 2019 when the #AfghanistanPapers were published that the leaders I trusted, who sent me to kill & die, had knowingly lied to me & all of us for years.

The Biden Admin is right to withdraw. It’s long overdue. But what can I possibly make of this apparent lack of planning & coordination for withdrawal- the unjust abandonment of so many- than that there was an obvious lack of care for Afghan people? They’re erased now, as ever. It’s devastatingly clear that politicians have used veterans, US troops & Afghans alike as nothing more than pawns in a game, a racket, for the wealthy & powerful. Decades of violence in our names, supposedly for us, but in the end we’re the ones played, And as a result, we are all less safe & secure. Terrorism has expanded & increased in nearly every place we have bombed or invaded or occupied as part of this “Global War on Terror” compared to prior. The war hasn’t “done nothing”- it’s increased danger.

I decided years ago when I spoke out in uniform that I would tell the truth and lead with moral courage and integrity whatever it cost me. I refuse to participate in the amnesia, a-historicism and hand-wringing and self-absolution around this war now. That’s because after millions of lives & acres destroyed over decades, with lives still on the line, it is not enough to withdraw & walk away. There must be a reckoning. That requires the truth. This has not been a mistake. This has been our policy. There must be reparations to break cycles of violence we have invested in so heavily for so long. We must dismantle the systems that led us here & change the power structures to ensure that leaders with the wisdom to invest in life prevail over those in the business of death.

The troops are withdrawn
but this is not over.
There must be accountability.
There must be justice.
The must be restitution & healing.
There must change.
This is not just a moral burden,
it’s a security imperative.
#EndTheGWOT

So it was only Cori Bush's Congressional staff office who responded of all those that she contacted.

 

[repoman]