Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Elixir]

It remains striking to me that anybody could convince themselves that it's possible for any individual to deserve millions or billions of dollars, for any reason. To believe somehow all that money rightfully should belong to him because of something he personally did to earn it. As if one person could do anything so important all on his own to be entitled to that much money, when the opportunity cost of retaining all that money is to deprive others of basic necessities.

Of course, I think most people are dimly aware that's all nonsense. According to this view, the ballooning rise in profits since the 1970's is the natural outcome of certain individuals becoming exponentially more worthy of wealth, doing more and more of whatever they had been doing to deserve it before, while the entire working class made no improvements whatsoever to their worthiness. That's the logical implication of thinking all those riches are rightfully, deservedly the property of the few people who have them.

None of that can be defended, obviously, because what really happened is that wealth was generated in the same way it always is under capitalism, through exploitation. So, in a very real sense, there has always been ample justification to "get those bastards", because they never earned most of the money they possess.

I can see people deserving/earning millions, but not thousands of millions (billions). If you have enough to live out your natural life without financial worry, that should be enough. If you can assure the same for your immediate offspring, that's more than enough (and it will probably hurt them). I don't see anyone needing personal fortune of more than 10m, even with a large family.
That said, we're talking today's dollars. I just started looking at some FB clickbait about places you can "retire comfortably with just $200,000"... #2 was Costa Rica... Rent somewhere nice as low as $1200/mo, pay $10-15 for nice meals, $150/mo for State health insurance, plus transportation needs, utilities, insurance (if you own anything), entertainment/recreation* etc... anyhow I added it up in my head and unless that 200k is earning a really good return, you'd probably be on the street in 7-8 years. Welcome to retirement! A million bucks isn't what it used to be.

* (Surfboards look like they are running $700 for a decent basic custom board these days, to near $10k for an exotic. My first custom board by Renny Yater ran a hefty $110)

 

[Trausti]

It remains striking to me that anybody could convince themselves that it's possible for any individual to deserve millions or billions of dollars, for any reason. To believe somehow all that money rightfully should belong to him because of something he personally did to earn it. As if one person could do anything so important all on his own to be entitled to that much money, when the opportunity cost of retaining all that money is to deprive others of basic necessities.

Of course, I think most people are dimly aware that's all nonsense. According to this view, the ballooning rise in profits since the 1970's is the natural outcome of certain individuals becoming exponentially more worthy of wealth, doing more and more of whatever they had been doing to deserve it before, while the entire working class made no improvements whatsoever to their worthiness. That's the logical implication of thinking all those riches are rightfully, deservedly the property of the few people who have them.

None of that can be defended, obviously, because what really happened is that wealth was generated in the same way it always is under capitalism, through exploitation. So, in a very real sense, there has always been ample justification to "get those bastards", because they never earned most of the money they possess.

I can see people deserving/earning millions, but not thousands of millions (billions). If you have enough to live out your natural life without financial worry, that should be enough. If you can assure the same for your immediate offspring, that's more than enough (and it will probably hurt them). I don't see anyone needing personal fortune of more than 10m, even with a large family.
That said, we're talking today's dollars. I just started looking at some FB clickbait about places you can "retire comfortably with just $200,000"... #2 was Costa Rica... Rent somewhere nice as low as $1200/mo, pay $10-15 for nice meals, $150/mo for State health insurance, plus transportation needs, utilities, insurance (if you own anything), entertainment/recreation* etc... anyhow I added it up in my head and unless that 200k is earning a really good return, you'd probably be on the street in 7-8 years. Welcome to retirement! A million bucks isn't what it used to be.

* (Surfboards look like they are running $700 for a decent basic custom board these days, to near $10k for an exotic. My first custom board by Renny Yater ran a hefty $110)

I can see people deserving a place to pee and poop, but not in a Western toilet that uses water. If you have a pit in the ground, that should be enough. If you can assure the same pit for your immediate offspring, that's more than enough. I don't see anyone needing a flushable toilet. Government - do your thing!

 

[Elixir]

I can see people deserving a place to pee and poop, but not in a Western toilet that uses water. If you have a pit in the ground, that should be enough. If you can assure the same pit for your immediate offspring, that's more than enough. I don't see anyone needing a flushable toilet. Government - do your thing!

If you have a few million dollars and don't have a toilet, that's your stupid choice.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No. You can no doubt find data on what the tax rates were and how much was collected.

What we don't know is how much money never made it to the tax return in the first place. There were a lot of loopholes that reduced income.

Which has nothing at all to do with your claim that "We have no idea what they were paying".

Since we don't know what their true income was how can we know what rate they paid??

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It remains striking to me that anybody could convince themselves that it's possible for any individual to deserve millions or billions of dollars, for any reason. To believe somehow all that money rightfully should belong to him because of something he personally did to earn it. As if one person could do anything so important all on his own to be entitled to that much money, when the opportunity cost of retaining all that money is to deprive others of basic necessities.

Your inability to see doesn't make it not true.

An innovator in the business world comes up with an idea and is able to collect as profit a portion of the benefit that results. Unless you are in a total monopoly situation you have no ability to actually take from your customers.

Take, for example, SpaceX. They can't charge any more for a ride on one of their rockets than on the competition. The only sources of profit are making them cheaper and recovering them rather than throwing them away. The customer is not in any way harmed by SpaceX recovering the boosters (and, if anything, they are helped--the reflown boosters seem to be more reliable than first-flight boosters, although we don't have enough data to be sure of this. In the normal aviation world you would never put passengers on the first flight of a plane, chances are the reflown boosters will be better.)

He created all that value, he's not taking it from anyone.

 

[laughing dog]

No. You can no doubt find data on what the tax rates were and how much was collected.

What we don't know is how much money never made it to the tax return in the first place. There were a lot of loopholes that reduced income.

Which has nothing at all to do with your claim that "We have no idea what they were paying".

Since we don't know what their true income was how can we know what rate they paid??

FFS, we know their rate they paid on their taxable income and the effective rates are calculated using their declared income (which is not their taxable income). There has never been a time in the USA where all income is declared and taxed. So, using your reasoning, it is always impossible to compare effective tax rates.

 

[Toni]

I

I can see people deserving a place to pee and poop, but not in a Western toilet that uses water. If you have a pit in the ground, that should be enough. If you can assure the same pit for your immediate offspring, that's more than enough. I don't see anyone needing a flushable toilet. Government - do your thing!

If you have a few million dollars and don't have a toilet, that's your stupid choice.

I’m grateful neither of you is in charge of any community’s sanitation or water supply.

 

[lpetrich]

I'm guessing that OACDS is a misspelling of AOCDS -- AOC Derangement Syndrome.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "According to @LindseyGrahamSC, the President failing to condemn neo-nazis, forcing thousands of federal workers to go to food pantries,& risking all their credit scores is whatever, but not letting the President march down the House Floor until we pay people first is “a new low.”… https://t.co/ntNqhEFg7k"

Matt Laslo on Twitter: "Have worked in the Capitol for 12 years and never seen a post-it display of well wishes on any lawmaker’s name plaque but here is @AOC’s… https://t.co/4aGB6hn1mC"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: " we’re feeling the love out here. Thank you everyone for your supportive gestures - it makes a huge difference, and the positivity helps our whole team stay courageous.… https://t.co/8IvnpuqCHj"

Remarkable that she has gotten such a fan club.

(Edited to snip duplicate)

 

[lpetrich]

She retweeted Yahoo News on Twitter: ".@AOC has accomplished two things in recent weeks: She’s managed to penetrate the media cycle generally dominated by Trump with policy ideas and shifted the Overton Window to the left on issues from tax rates to climate change policy [url]https://t.co/MuWLmNTtbT by @realchriswilson… https://t.co/4qC95sB0IQ"[/url] -- a tribute to her success in shaping policy debate.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "“America’s first political theorists took these truths to be self-evident: that a person could not exercise political liberty if he did not possess a modicum of economic autonomy, and that disparities in wealth inevitably produced disparities of political power.”… https://t.co/EJvOTeIyq2"
New York Magazine on Twitter: ".@AOC thinks concentrated wealth is incompatible with democracy. So did our founders. @EricLevitz writes https://t.co/otsTe1Yr6N"
AOC’s Call For Abolishing Billionaires Is Deeply American

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Our issue platform is so strong, Fox basically turned into a nonstop anti-me channel for the last 6 months and *still* managed to lose their home advantage. … https://t.co/YXTER6zSNL"

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Quote tweet got deleted, but - I believe workers should enjoy more of the wealth they create, & that democracy belongs in the workplace, too. GOP believes people should be paid the lowest wages possible, no matter what they produce, so billionaires can scoop up the difference."

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "This clip was made at the very beginning of our journey - before anyone knew what was happening. It’s wild to see now. cc: @jubileefilms https://t.co/Djp9Vo2Y8m"

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wins seat on powerful House Oversight committee - CBS News noting Ocasio-Cortez and liberal freshmen join Oversight Committee - POLITICO

Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.), Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.) and Ro Khanna (D-Calif.) won spots on the high-profile committee on Tuesday, two sources told POLITICO.

Yes, Rashida Tlaib of "Impeach the motherfucker!"

 

[Rhea]

He created all that value, he's not taking it from anyone.

Eh? I was completely unaware tha he worked with no employees at all. That’s a remarkable accomplishment. Kinda like the sweatshop owners, right? Solely responsible for all created value, and not a single iota of exploitation (theft) of the contributions of others.

How did he find time to engineer between scrubbing the factory toilets and changing the lightbulbs and filing the taxes?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Since we don't know what their true income was how can we know what rate they paid??

FFS, we know their rate they paid on their taxable income and the effective rates are calculated using their declared income (which is not their taxable income). There has never been a time in the USA where all income is declared and taxed. So, using your reasoning, it is always impossible to compare effective tax rates.

We can never know it precisely for this very reason. However, these days there's little in the way of loopholes that keep it off the return. Back then you could drive a truck through the loopholes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He created all that value, he's not taking it from anyone.

Eh? I was completely unaware tha he worked with no employees at all. That’s a remarkable accomplishment. Kinda like the sweatshop owners, right? Solely responsible for all created value, and not a single iota of exploitation (theft) of the contributions of others.

How did he find time to engineer between scrubbing the factory toilets and changing the lightbulbs and filing the taxes?

His idea, his value.

 

[skepticalbip]

He created all that value, he's not taking it from anyone.

Eh? I was completely unaware tha he worked with no employees at all. That’s a remarkable accomplishment. Kinda like the sweatshop owners, right? Solely responsible for all created value, and not a single iota of exploitation (theft) of the contributions of others.

How did he find time to engineer between scrubbing the factory toilets and changing the lightbulbs and filing the taxes?

His idea, his value.

Actually I am having a hard time trying to understand how giving thousands of people a chance of employment and incomes is exploitation. Certainly not when compared to the alternative. Anyone who has tried to start their own business understands how fucking much harder and more time consuming for less income and much less security that is. But then maybe I don't have the business skills necessary to make a fortune starting a business. I was quite thankful for having the opportunity of a job when I finally decided running my own business was damn hard so got a job in a corporation for more income and much less hours of labor.

 

[Trausti]

His idea, his value.

Actually I am having a hard time trying to understand how giving thousands of people a chance of employment and incomes is exploitation. Certainly not when compared to the alternative. Anyone who has tried to start their own business understands how fucking much harder and more time consuming for less income and much less security that is. But then maybe I don't have the business skills necessary to make a fortune starting a business. I was quite thankful for having the opportunity of a job when I finally decided running my own business was damn hard so got a job in a corporation for more income and much less hours of labor.

There seems to be an assumption that if one person has more than another, then that person must have exploited the other. Silly, but there you go.

 

[barbos]

He created all that value, he's not taking it from anyone.

Eh? I was completely unaware tha he worked with no employees at all. That’s a remarkable accomplishment. Kinda like the sweatshop owners, right? Solely responsible for all created value, and not a single iota of exploitation (theft) of the contributions of others.

How did he find time to engineer between scrubbing the factory toilets and changing the lightbulbs and filing the taxes?

You honestly believe that toilet scrubbers of successful companies should be paid more than toilet scrubbers of less successful companies? Musk is a businessman who put lots of his own money in a startup called SpaceX. If he had no money he would not have been able to do that.

 

[Trausti]

He created all that value, he's not taking it from anyone.

Eh? I was completely unaware tha he worked with no employees at all. That’s a remarkable accomplishment. Kinda like the sweatshop owners, right? Solely responsible for all created value, and not a single iota of exploitation (theft) of the contributions of others.

How did he find time to engineer between scrubbing the factory toilets and changing the lightbulbs and filing the taxes?

You honestly believe that toilet scrubbers of successful companies should be paid more than toilet scrubbers of less successful companies?

If it wasn't for those evil capitalists the toilet scrubber wouldn't have a job.

 

[lpetrich]

His idea, his value.

There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in Ayn Rand's novels.

 

[JohnG]

His idea, his value.

Actually I am having a hard time trying to understand how giving thousands of people a chance of employment and incomes is exploitation.

It isn't by definition. There is a deal between employee and employer. If the deal is bad for the employer, they do not take on the employee, and vise-versa.

(One of) The problem(s) lies in who has more leverage in that deal, how they got that leverage, and is having that much leverage good for society as a whole. Also, what are the spin-off effects of one side having that much leverage over the other.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

21 trillion dollars twit was remarkably stupid and she has ..... economics degree. I predict that will stick to her for a long while.

She is extremely smart, and almost always right. Better still, she owns and corrects her mistakes. She is among the best of the millennial generation and will do them very well.

- - - Updated - - -

You honestly believe that toilet scrubbers of successful companies should be paid more than toilet scrubbers of less successful companies?

If it wasn't for those evil capitalists the toilet scrubber wouldn't have a job.

Is this meant to be ironic? Poe's law in the age of trump is murder