An illustration of media bias

[Politesse]

So Hamas has won and they can continue with their expressed desire to kill Jews and eliminate Israel then?

No. They never had any such capacity, and they still don't. Neither does Israel have the ability to kill every last Palestinian, Syrian, and Iranian. But they will all continue to kill one another in mass numbers.

 

[Arctish]

That is one biased way to describe it, since some civilians were injured as well.

I know I am being biased when I remember how many civvies were killed on 7th Oct.

WHATABOUTISMMMMM

Also yes you're being biased if you *only* look at the atrocities being committed by one side. This isn't hard.

Hamas has committed actrocities and so has Israel. But only Israel is being held to account for the ones they're committed.
That's a bias that concerns me.

It's happening on either side. Some people are only holding Israel accountable. Some people are only holding Hamas accountable.

I've never met anyone who thinks Hamas is blameless.

It is possible to blame Hamas yet not be pepared to do anything about holding them to account.

It is also possible to blame Hamas, accept the necessity of bombing Hamas command, communication, and weapons sites so that Hamas will be defeated and replaced, even knowing civilian deaths are likely to occur, without accepting reckless endangerment of civilians much less a policy of blowing up the apartments of Hamas members with their families inside, or to cut off humanitarian aid to Gaza, or to murder paramedics in a convoy of ambulances traveling with the permission of the IDF to rescue civilians, or any other atrocity.

I look forward to that time when you will congratulate the IDF for something they have done to Hamas. As I have said previously with no apparent response. If/when the IDF commits accused atrocoities, war crimes then let them be investigated and any guilty be severeley punished.

It is also possible to understand that the reason you don't hear much discussion about Hamas atrocities is because everyone agrees they're atrocities and no one thinks they're justified. Discussions tend to focus on things in dispute.

Which allows Hamas and their ilk to continue on their merry way because it is not considered important enough to focus upon.

What makes you say that?

There's a war going on because of the atrocities Hamas committed. It's been front page news for years. Tens of thousands of people are dead, hundreds of thousands have been wounded and maimed, millions are facing starvation. Nations sympathetic to Israel have upped the financial and military aid they send, especially the US and Germany. Even nations sympathetic to the Palestinian people supported Israel's campaign to overthrow Hamas, right up until it became a campaign to force the Gazans into refugee camps in other countries.

Israel had a lot of support following the October attack. Netanyahu and his Cabinet ministers squandered it by pursuing a campaign of conquest and ethnic cleansing and openly flirting with redeveloping Gaza for their own financial gain.

Pity the hostages are not worth focusing upon.

Who thinks they're not worth focusing on?

The general public, both inside Israel and outside it, are very supportive of negotiations to get the hostages released. Only 8 hostages have been rescued via military action while 140 were released as part of a ceasefire deal. Obviously, one of those approaches is more likely to succeed than the other, and it isn't the one Netanyahu is backing.

 

[laughing dog]

That is one biased way to describe it, since some civilians were injured as well.

I know I am being biased when I remember how many civvies were killed on 7th Oct.

WHATABOUTISMMMMM

Also yes you're being biased if you *only* look at the atrocities being committed by one side. This isn't hard.

Hamas has committed actrocities and so has Israel. But only Israel is being held to account for the ones they're committed.
That's a bias that concerns me.

Are you unaware of what the IDF has been doing the past almost 3 years?

Sigh.
If you read my comment carefully instead of just blurting out what you imagine it says you will see that I acknowledge that Isreal has comitted some actrocities. I've italicised it for your edification and enjoyment.

Thank you, but it was unnecessary because I was referring to the obvious fact that the IDF has been trying to holding Hamas accountable for its atrocities for the past 3 years. Maybe try thinking before responding.

FIFY.
The IDF has a thankless task. Everyones appreciates the fact that Hamas has been severely degraded but no one will thank the IDF for it.

No one? Not even you or Netanahyu?

The IDF had killed numerous Hamas leaders and followers. That is holding Hamas accountable.

Perhaps you try not to impunge the motives of those with whom you may disagreed. We all want the killings to stop but how to it quickly and effectively is the problem.
[/QUOTE] Unlike you, I impugned no one’s motive here. Physician, heal thy self.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is one biased way to describe it, since some civilians were injured as well.

I know I am being biased when I remember how many civvies were killed on 7th Oct.

WHATABOUTISMMMMM

Also yes you're being biased if you *only* look at the atrocities being committed by one side. This isn't hard.

Hamas has committed actrocities and so has Israel. But only Israel is being held to account for the ones they're committed.
That's a bias that concerns me.

Are you unaware of what the IDF has been doing the past almost 3 years?

Sigh.
If you read my comment carefully instead of just blurting out what you imagine it says you will see that I acknowledge that Isreal has comitted some actrocities. I've italicised it for your edification and enjoyment.

Thank you, but it was unnecessary because I was referring to the obvious fact that the IDF has been trying to holding Hamas accountable for its atrocities for the past 3 years. Maybe try thinking before responding.

FIFY.
The IDF has a thankless task. Everyones appreciates the fact that Hamas has been severely degraded but no one will thank the IDF for it.

Hamas was knocked back a quite a bit 15 months ago.

Perhaps you try not to impunge the motives of those with whom you may disagreed. We all want the killings to stop but how to it quickly and effectively is the problem.

That isn't consistent with what you've been saying. It can't be an unknown path to prevent violence, but then have no problem assuming the current course is the best.

 

[Swammerdami]

I look forward to that time when you will congratulate the IDF for something they have done to Hamas. As I have said previously with no apparent response. If/when the IDF commits accused atrocoities, war crimes then let them be investigated and any guilty be severeley punished.

The accused criminal is a scoff-law who has not submitted to arrest

Details of the ICC Arrest Warrant

• Date: November 21, 2024
• Issuing Body: ICC Pre-Trial Chamber I
• Accused: Benjamin Netanyahu (Prime Minister of Israel)
• Charges:
• War crimes: Starvation as a method of warfare and intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population
• Crimes against humanity: Murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts
• Period: From at least October 8, 2023, to May 20, 2024

Implications of the Warrant

• Arrest Obligation:
  As a member of the ICC, any signatory state is obliged to arrest and surrender Netanyahu if he enters their territory.
• Travel Restrictions:
  The warrant could limit Netanyahu's ability to travel, particularly to ICC member countries

A warrant of arrest has also been issued against Mr Mohammed Diab Ibrahim Al-Masri, commonly known as ‘Deif’, born in 1965, the highest commander of the military wing of Hamas (known as the al-Qassam Brigades) at the time of the alleged conduct.

 

[Tigers!]

So Hamas has won and they can continue with their expressed desire to kill Jews and eliminate Israel then?

No. They never had any such capacity, and they still don't. Neither does Israel have the ability to kill every last Palestinian, Syrian, and Iranian. But they will all continue to kill one another in mass numbers.

That so sadly is true. The cycle of violence continues with no end in sight.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So Hamas has won and they can continue with their expressed desire to kill Jews and eliminate Israel then?

No. They never had any such capacity, and they still don't. Neither does Israel have the ability to kill every last Palestinian, Syrian, and Iranian. But they will all continue to kill one another in mass numbers.

That so sadly is true. The cycle of violence continues with no end in sight.

And you are supporting one half of that cycle. The half of the cycle that fanned the flames that got the Israeli PM assassinated.

 

[Derec]

When considering the virtues and dangers of right-wing politics it is important to remember "liberal" folks like Derec, who don't particularly care if their policies result in the execution of human beings for hanging the wrong poster on their wall,

First of all, who said anything about "execution"? "Execution" implies that these people were the targets. Also, "execution" implies that the person executed is in the executors' custody. Neither criterion applies here, which makes your choice of verb pure polemics.

Let me refresh your memory about what actually happened last September. Hezbollah, wary of Israel being able to use their cell phones to track them, switched to pagers, a much older technology that is less susceptible to tracking. Hezbollah ordered these pagers and distributed them to their members, mostly fighters. But Israel found out about the plan and managed to get small explosive charges put into the pagers. These are not pagers that regular people can buy in a cellular store in Sidon. These are not pagers that a hospital in Beirut would order for their doctors and nurses. These were specifically pagers ordered by Hezbollah for use by their operatives for terror-related clandestine communications.
And indeed, the vast majority of the casualties have been Hezbollah operatives. In a few cases, family members operated the pagers, but they were not the target.
Just the same, these two women support the Hezbollah terror their relatives directly participate in. So, why should I feel too bad about what happened to them? If a Nazi-supporting woman in Berlin got injured during WWII in a blast meant for her Waffen SS relative, do you feel bad for her too?

or because their parents signed them up for a religious youth group when they were a kid.

This is more than a "religious youth group". It's a youth division of an internationally proscribed terrorist organization.
And again, the two 12 year olds were not the actual targets. Their terrorist fathers were. But why should I feel bad about what happened
to them given their active support of Hezbollah?
I found a video that goes with the article from the OP.

You can see one of the Nasrallahjugend twerps make some Hezbollah buttons with a press, and sit in front of a display of photos of Hezbollah figures.
Again, why should I care?

This says a lot about their designs for the world, and not just in Palestine.

This happened in Lebanon, not so-called "Palestine".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No idea on the thermal, they expected some damage from the stone.

The point is "surgical precision" doesn't mean perfection.

I hope you recover quickly.


I’ve never had a kidney stone before but I understand they are extremely painful.

I've had two that were very painful. This one was not, purely incidental find. Hanging out at the bend where it turns to enter the bladder. Removed because in the long run the flow restriction would not be good for the kidney.

 

[Derec]

A warrant of arrest has also been issued against Mr Mohammed Diab Ibrahim Al-Masri, commonly known as ‘Deif’, born in 1965, the highest commander of the military wing of Hamas (known as the al-Qassam Brigades) at the time of the alleged conduct.

His case has been resolved with extreme prejudice.

However, this thread is about the September 2024 pager attacks against Hezbollah in Lebanon. The Gaza war or Hamas are not really on topic here.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's happening on either side. Some people are only holding Israel accountable. Some people are only holding Hamas accountable.

I've never met anyone who thinks Hamas is blameless.

There are a lot of people who think the answer is in muzzling Israel, doing nothing about Hamas. That implies that Hamas isn't causing the problem. Saying "Hamas is bad" doesn't change the fact that the "answer" is to leave them alone and pretend everything will be fine. Same non-answer bullied kids get, nothing is ever done about the bullies and thus all that happens is the problem becomes out of sight.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That is one biased way to describe it, since some civilians were injured as well.

I know I am being biased when I remember how many civvies were killed on 7th Oct.

WHATABOUTISMMMMM

Also yes you're being biased if you *only* look at the atrocities being committed by one side. This isn't hard.

Hamas has committed actrocities and so has Israel. But only Israel is being held to account for the ones they're committed.
That's a bias that concerns me.

Are you unaware of what the IDF has been doing the past almost 3 years?

Are you unaware of how Hamas has been making fake wrongs?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When considering the virtues and dangers of right-wing politics it is important to remember "liberal" folks like Derec, who don't particularly care if their policies result in the execution of human beings for hanging the wrong poster on their wall, or because their parents signed them up for a religious youth group when they were a kid. This says a lot about their designs for the world, and not just in Palestine.

This isn't about the "wrong poster".

What would you think if you walked into someone's home and found a portrait of Hitler on the wall?

 

[Derec]

Twelve year olds rarely, if ever, join any organization without parental permission and usually prodding.

Well, duh, those are Hezbollah families. Their fathers are Hezbollah terrorists and actual targets of the attack and owners of the pagers in question.

When it comes to religious or political groups, it is nearly a 100% chance it wasn’t the kids’ idea to join or to be involved.

Maybe it was their idea, supported by the family. We don't know. But they would have been brought up with Islamist, Hezbollah, pro-terrorism values since an early age.

In religious families, even less likely the kid joined on their own. Judging by my own limited ( my choice) experience with all religious ‘youth groups,’ there is some heavy duty indoctrination going on. And these were very mainstream groups. Even Girl Scouts was fairly indoctrination driven and assumed church affiliation.

Are you really comparing Girl Scouts with Hezbollah Scouts?

 

[Derec]

Kinda like how you feel about the libs?

Totally uncalled for. And a low point of discourse, even by your standards.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's happening on either side. Some people are only holding Israel accountable. Some people are only holding Hamas accountable.

I've never met anyone who thinks Hamas is blameless.

It is possible to blame Hamas yet not be pepared to do anything about holding them to account.

The problem with this is that if there truly is blame then something about them would have to change. But the "answer" involves no such change--thus the blame is just words, not real.

 

[Derec]

Because they have done nothing. They have accomplished nothing. Hundreds of thousands have been killed, and the political situation is unchanged.

No, "hundreds of thousands" have not been killed. And much has been accomplished. Specifically relevant to this thread, Hezbollah is far weaker than it was a year ago.

 

[laughing dog]

That is one biased way to describe it, since some civilians were injured as well.

I know I am being biased when I remember how many civvies were killed on 7th Oct.

WHATABOUTISMMMMM

Also yes you're being biased if you *only* look at the atrocities being committed by one side. This isn't hard.

Hamas has committed actrocities and so has Israel. But only Israel is being held to account for the ones they're committed.
That's a bias that concerns me.

Are you unaware of what the IDF has been doing the past almost 3 years?

Are you unaware of how Hamas has been making fake wrongs?

Can you explain what the means and how it is relevant to the point that the IDF is holding Hamas accountable?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is also possible to blame Hamas, accept the necessity of bombing Hamas command, communication, and weapons sites so that Hamas will be defeated and replaced, even knowing civilian deaths are likely to occur, without accepting reckless endangerment of civilians much less a policy of blowing up the apartments of Hamas members with their families inside, or to cut off humanitarian aid to Gaza, or to murder paramedics in a convoy of ambulances traveling with the permission of the IDF to rescue civilians, or any other atrocity.

It is also possible to understand that the reason you don't hear much discussion about Hamas atrocities is because everyone agrees they're atrocities and no one thinks they're justified. Discussions tend to focus on things in dispute.

Except you are blaming Israel for things that haven't happened.

Blowing up apartments with Hamas? No. Blowing up houses of the senior leadership, not merely "Hamas". Has to be houses because the leaders have escape tunnels, can't do that in an apartment.

Cutting off humanitarian aid? At no point has Gaza been without food, the problem is one of distribution. There was a period where Israel was transitioning to the GHF and nothing was going in--but Hamas still couldn't find any starving people to point a camera at except the medical cases.

That convoy--strangely, I have yet to hear anything about that other than from Hamas. Makes me wonder if it's real.

And the problem with not considering Hamas atrocities is that you can't ignore them and yet reach a workable answer.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you unaware of how Hamas has been making fake wrongs?

Can you explain what the means and how it is relevant to the point that the IDF is holding Hamas accountable?

Remember the starvation photos? Every last one of them was actually medical, not a supply problem.