Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[marc]

I’m much more understanding of this guys collection

Holy fucking fuck. I hope some of those were 3d printed and not GW purchases. That poor bastard must have sold both his kidneys.

That’s actually not the biggest collection I’ve seen. That honor belongs to this guy:



doing quick addition on some of the bigger pieces, it easily reaches 40K in price. Of course this guy has just about everything, while the guy in the picture is just Chaos.

 

[ZiprHead]

NBC reporting that the Uvalde Police Department and the school district are no longer cooperating the the Texas Dept. Of Justice over the investigation.

I wonder why.

 

[ZiprHead]

Here's a timeline I found.

11:27 a.m.: Video shows that an exterior door to Ross Elementary School that gunman Salvador Ramos entered was propped open by a teacher.

11:28 a.m: Ramos crashes a vehicle near the school into a ditch, gets out and begins firing upon two people who came outside to see the crash near a funeral home. Civilians are not struck by gunfire. The teacher runs to a room to get a phone, returns to the door, and the door remains open.

11:30 a.m.: The first 911 call is made to Uvalde police reporting a car crash and a man with a gun outside the school.

11:30 a.m.: The US Marshals Service says it received a call from a Uvalde police officer requesting assistance.

11:31 a.m.: The shooting suspect reaches the last row of cars in the school parking lot and shooting begins outside of the school. Patrol vehicles reach the funeral home, and a patrol car drives by shooter, who is hunkered down by another vehicle.

11:32 a.m.: The suspect fires at the school.

11:33 a.m.: The suspect enters the school and begins shooting into a classroom. He shot more than 100 rounds.

11:35 a.m.: A total of seven officers are on the scene, and three officers enter the school, later followed by an additional team of three more officers and a sheriff. Two of the initial officers received grazing wounds from the suspect while the classroom door was closed.

11:37 a.m.: Sixteen rounds were fired from 11:37 a.m. to 11:44 a.m.

11:43 a.m.: Robb Elementary announces on Facebook that "Robb Elementary is under a Lockdown Status due to gunshots in the area."

11:51 a.m.: More officers arrive.

12:03 p.m.: As many as 19 officers are in the school's hallway.

12:03 p.m.: A girl in room 112 of the school makes a 911 call.

12:10 p.m.: A 911 call is received from the same girl in room 112, reporting multiple people are dead.

12:13 p.m.: The girl makes another 911 call.

12:15 p.m.: Border Patrol's tactical unit BorTac team arrives on scene.

12:16 p.m.: The same girl makes another 911 call, reporting there were “eight to nine students alive."

12:17 p.m.: Robb Elementary announces on Facebook: "There is an active shooter at Robb Elementary. Law enforcement is on site. Your cooperation is needed at this time by not visiting the campus. As soon as more information is gathered it will be shared. The rest of the district is under a Secure Status."

12:19 p.m.: A different 911 call is received from a caller in room 111, but the caller hung up after another student told them to.

12:21 p.m.: Suspect fires again.

12:21 p.m.: Another 911 call is received, and three shots fired are heard.

12:21 p.m.: Officers move down the hallway.

12:36 p.m.: There is a 911 call that last 21 seconds, with a student saying, "he shot the door."

12:43 and 12:47 p.m.: 911 caller says "please send police now."

12:46 p.m.: 911 caller can hear police next door.

12:50 p.m.: Shots are heard being fired over the 911 call.

12:50 p.m.: Law enforcement breach door using keys from janitor and kill suspect.

12:51 p.m.: On 911 call, it sounds like officers are moving children out of the room.

So officers got there... before he entered in the school?

They knew he was armed, he was outside the school and they didn't move heaven and earth to stop him getting in?

Yup, the first one passed right by the perp while he was crouched down in the parking lot.

 

[ZiprHead]

13 times Texas police have changed their story of what happened during the school shooting that left 19 children dead

Texas public safety officials and police have offered contradicting and muddled statements about what happened at the Uvalde elementary school.

news.yahoo.com

 

[ZiprHead]

It's illegal in TX to possess more than five sex toys but unlimited guns? No prob...

(f) A person who possesses six or more obscene devices or identical or similar obscene articles is presumed to possess them with intent to promote the same.

PENAL CODE CHAPTER 43. PUBLIC INDECENCY

statutes.capitol.texas.gov

 

[ZiprHead]

God Has Heard Your Thoughts and Prayers and He Thinks They Are Fucking Bullshit

Hi. God here. I am contacting you in response to your prayers regarding the most recent and totally horrific mass shooting in a college/ high schoo...

www.mcsweeneys.net

Hi. God here. I am contacting you in response to your prayers regarding the most recent and totally horrific mass shooting in a college/ high school/ elementary school/ bar/ nightclub/ park/ shopping mall/ concert/ movie theater/ parking lot/ church/ mosque/ synagogue. I have listened to your prayers, America, and I have come to the conclusion that they are cowardly, pointless, and shameful. Your prayers are not helping the victims or their families. Helping potential and actual gun violence victims is a bridge you could have crossed a long time ago, and you chose not to. You pray in order not to feel culpable in horrendous acts of violence. You pray in order to feel good. And for this, I say: fuck you.

 

[lpetrich]

Reminds me of "God helps those who help themselves".

 

[BH]

where I live in Texas south of town we had a road pass over a railroad line. The road turned to the right real sharp right before it got to the rail road and even though there were signs warning of the railroad a lot of folks got killed or cars totalled by the train. But no one would do anything until one day on of the well off family's sons got killed by the train on that road. Then all of a sudden money was found to build a bridge over that railroad.

It's the same thing with these shootings. until someone real well off or prominent loses a loved one to these mass killings nothing will be done.

 

[BH]

I dont know what the answer to all this is.

 

[lpetrich]

In the Uvalde schooting, the town's cops stood around like a stereotype of a government bureaucrat, concerned more with process and rules than with anything else.

 

[marc]

A radical, and disgusting proposal: Release photos of the bodies. When Emmett Till was lynched, his mother insisted on a public funeral with an open casket, so the world could see the brutality inflicted on her son. Maybe seeing the brutality of what these guns do to kids will shake some people out of complacency. After all, the anti-abortion crowd has no problem posting pictures of aborted fetuses to shock people.

 

[Jarhyn]

All of this is just gross. It's a fucking drug, collecting the power to kill people.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

...

Self-defense killings always exceed mass shooter deaths.

Can you back this up with a link to data? Self-defense killings are almost negligible when compared with other gun-injury deaths according to what I've read. For example, see:

Self-Defense Gun Use​

The use of guns in self-defense by private citizens is extremely rare. VPC research has found a gun is far more likely to be used in a homicide or suicide than in a justifiable homicide. More guns are stolen each year than are used in self-defense.

The gun lobby seeks to expand the carrying of concealed, loaded handguns into an ever-increasing number of public spaces, while at the same time blocking any restrictions on the availability of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. The main argument used to advance these policies is that guns are a common and effective tool for self-defense. This argument is false.

A series of VPC studies on guns and self-defense thoroughly disprove the NRA myth. These studies analyze national data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program’s Supplementary Homicide Report (SHR) and the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). Among the findings of the most recent edition of the study are the following:

• In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
• Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
• Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

Want to try again? You just made my point. 298 justifiable civilian homicides is well above the mass shooting death toll.

You're comparing it to criminal homicides in general, not mass shootings. Gun bans won't get rid of the existing guns and thus will do little to criminal homicides.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The role of domestic violence in fatal mass shootings in the United States, 2014–2019 | SpringerLink

Results

We found that 59.1% of mass shootings between 2014 and 2019 were DV-related and in 68.2% of mass shootings, the perpetrator either killed at least one partner or family member or had a history of DV. We found significant differences in the average number of injuries and fatalities between DV and history of DV shootings and a higher average case fatality rate associated with DV-related mass shootings (83.7%) than non-DV-related (63.1%) or history of DV mass shootings (53.8%). Fifty-five perpetrators died during the shootings; 39 (70.9%) died by firearm suicide, 15 (27.3%) were killed by police, and 1 (1.8%) died from an intentional overdose.

Conclusions

Most mass shootings are related to DV. DV-related shootings had higher CFR than those unrelated to DV. Given these findings, restricting access to guns by perpetrators of DV may affect the occurrence of mass shootings and associated casualties.

DV = domestic violence

Seems like a well-enforced red-flag law would do a *lot* of good.

No. This doesn't say you need a red flag law, it says you need to deny guns to those convicted of DV. That's something I fully support. (Note, however, that DV murders are less likely to be gun murders than the average murder.)

Unfortunately, in practice you get what happened locally when they mandated that--the prosecutors couldn't handle the workload and pled down charges to something that wouldn't trigger the gun ban. Passing laws without providing the means of prosecuting them (prosecutors, courtrooms, and jail cells) doesn't work very well.

 

[laughing dog]

...

Self-defense killings always exceed mass shooter deaths.

Can you back this up with a link to data? Self-defense killings are almost negligible when compared with other gun-injury deaths according to what I've read. For example, see:

Self-Defense Gun Use​

The use of guns in self-defense by private citizens is extremely rare. VPC research has found a gun is far more likely to be used in a homicide or suicide than in a justifiable homicide. More guns are stolen each year than are used in self-defense.

The gun lobby seeks to expand the carrying of concealed, loaded handguns into an ever-increasing number of public spaces, while at the same time blocking any restrictions on the availability of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. The main argument used to advance these policies is that guns are a common and effective tool for self-defense. This argument is false.

A series of VPC studies on guns and self-defense thoroughly disprove the NRA myth. These studies analyze national data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program’s Supplementary Homicide Report (SHR) and the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). Among the findings of the most recent edition of the study are the following:

• In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
• Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
• Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

Want to try again? You just made my point. 298 justifiable civilian homicides is well above the mass shooting death toll.

The data shows that
1) justifiable civilian homicides by gun are dwarfed by criminal gun homicides, and
2) how rarely guns are used in self-defense.

Of course, none of that addresses the issues of mass shootings of children at schools or mass shootings using "war weaponry" or mass shootings by males under the age of 21.

 

[Copernicus]

...

Self-defense killings always exceed mass shooter deaths.

Can you back this up with a link to data? Self-defense killings are almost negligible when compared with other gun-injury deaths according to what I've read. For example, see:

Self-Defense Gun Use​

The use of guns in self-defense by private citizens is extremely rare. VPC research has found a gun is far more likely to be used in a homicide or suicide than in a justifiable homicide. More guns are stolen each year than are used in self-defense.

The gun lobby seeks to expand the carrying of concealed, loaded handguns into an ever-increasing number of public spaces, while at the same time blocking any restrictions on the availability of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. The main argument used to advance these policies is that guns are a common and effective tool for self-defense. This argument is false.

A series of VPC studies on guns and self-defense thoroughly disprove the NRA myth. These studies analyze national data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program’s Supplementary Homicide Report (SHR) and the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). Among the findings of the most recent edition of the study are the following:

• In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
• Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
• Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

Want to try again? You just made my point. 298 justifiable civilian homicides is well above the mass shooting death toll.

You're comparing it to criminal homicides in general, not mass shootings. Gun bans won't get rid of the existing guns and thus will do little to criminal homicides.

Loren, look at the kind of comparison you are making between 298 justifiable civilian homicides and mass shooting death tolls, which compared with only a fraction of the 10,380 unjustifiable civilian homicides. Laughing dog pointed this out to you, but it is worth reflecting on why your comparison was so misleading. Justified homicides in general are not a fair or reasonable amount to compare against just a fraction of unjustified homicides. They need to be compared against all unjustified homicides. We should not just be concerned with mass shootings, but with all criminal shootings. Gun control is not about just stopping mass shootings and letting all those other shootings keep on going at the same high level. It is about bringing down the amount of unjustifiable shootings of all types. This thread is about a particular mass shooting, so maybe what you need to find is some statistics on the number of justified mass civilian homicides. Can you do that?

 

[Tigers!]

Its beyond time for you Yanks to try something else.

I'm going to drive home the point that your argument "both sides are bad" is complete horseshit. Here's what the Democrats are trying to do:

And good for them for trying. More power to them.

House panel calls emergency meeting to advance gun violence prevention bills

The Judiciary Committee plans to meet Thursday to advance a package of gun control proposals after the school massacre in Uvalde, Texas. Senators are holding separate talks.

www.nbcnews.com

And guess what the Republicans are saying? Go on, take a fucking guess. Fuck your "both sides"

When did I ever say the Republications aren't acting like raving idiots about this?

It was a conservative government in Australia that did the gun buy-back that got so many guns out of circulation. Your "conservative" governments are nothing of they sort.

Now this is hilarious. Everything you posted was 100% true without being remotely accurate. I remember all the arguments against Howard's buyback scheme. They were all said by conservatives. In fact, it was one of the main reasons why Pauline Hanson was so popular in the late 90s. Remember that?

Too long ago? Well how about this then from 3 years ago:

'We could change Australia': One Nation staff secretly filmed courting NRA

An Al Jazeera investigation created a fake gun lobby group in Australia which covertly recorded meetings between One Nation and powerful players in the US gun lobby, in which the political party sought funding to change Australia's gun laws.

www.abc.net.au

Hanson is a populist not a conservative. She'd sell her fish & chip shot for votes. And very glad her foolishness was exposed for the nonsense that it is.

Then you have this fucking hero:

Christensen is a tool. No doubt about that. I would not let him walk my dog.

And of course the man, the myth, the legend - Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr Bob Katter!

We fact checked Bob Katter on kids having guns when he was young. Here's what we found

The independent MP has a novel idea for protecting the country from potential foreign threats: give children guns. Experts say the background to his claim gets our history wrong.

www.abc.net.au

Marginally more intelligent that Christensen.

I'll let you in on a little secret - Australia doesn't have as much of a gun problem as America. But any issues it does have comes solely from conservatives.

Generalisations are easy to do.

I will say it again - I very much want the Yanks to succeed in getting guns our of the hands of idiots, fools and assorted malcontents and ensure the safety of their people

 

[Tigers!]

A radical, and disgusting proposal: Release photos of the bodies. When Emmett Till was lynched, his mother insisted on a public funeral with an open casket, so the world could see the brutality inflicted on her son. Maybe seeing the brutality of what these guns do to kids will shake some people out of complacency. After all, the anti-abortion crowd has no problem posting pictures of aborted fetuses to shock people.

It might take something like that.

 

[Tigers!]

Here's a timeline I found.

11:27 a.m.: Video shows that an exterior door to Ross Elementary School that gunman Salvador Ramos entered was propped open by a teacher.

11:28 a.m: Ramos crashes a vehicle near the school into a ditch, gets out and begins firing upon two people who came outside to see the crash near a funeral home. Civilians are not struck by gunfire. The teacher runs to a room to get a phone, returns to the door, and the door remains open.

11:30 a.m.: The first 911 call is made to Uvalde police reporting a car crash and a man with a gun outside the school.

11:30 a.m.: The US Marshals Service says it received a call from a Uvalde police officer requesting assistance.

11:31 a.m.: The shooting suspect reaches the last row of cars in the school parking lot and shooting begins outside of the school. Patrol vehicles reach the funeral home, and a patrol car drives by shooter, who is hunkered down by another vehicle.

11:32 a.m.: The suspect fires at the school.

11:33 a.m.: The suspect enters the school and begins shooting into a classroom. He shot more than 100 rounds.

11:35 a.m.: A total of seven officers are on the scene, and three officers enter the school, later followed by an additional team of three more officers and a sheriff. Two of the initial officers received grazing wounds from the suspect while the classroom door was closed.

11:37 a.m.: Sixteen rounds were fired from 11:37 a.m. to 11:44 a.m.

11:43 a.m.: Robb Elementary announces on Facebook that "Robb Elementary is under a Lockdown Status due to gunshots in the area."

11:51 a.m.: More officers arrive.

12:03 p.m.: As many as 19 officers are in the school's hallway.

12:03 p.m.: A girl in room 112 of the school makes a 911 call.

12:10 p.m.: A 911 call is received from the same girl in room 112, reporting multiple people are dead.

12:13 p.m.: The girl makes another 911 call.

12:15 p.m.: Border Patrol's tactical unit BorTac team arrives on scene.

12:16 p.m.: The same girl makes another 911 call, reporting there were “eight to nine students alive."

12:17 p.m.: Robb Elementary announces on Facebook: "There is an active shooter at Robb Elementary. Law enforcement is on site. Your cooperation is needed at this time by not visiting the campus. As soon as more information is gathered it will be shared. The rest of the district is under a Secure Status."

12:19 p.m.: A different 911 call is received from a caller in room 111, but the caller hung up after another student told them to.

12:21 p.m.: Suspect fires again.

12:21 p.m.: Another 911 call is received, and three shots fired are heard.

12:21 p.m.: Officers move down the hallway.

12:36 p.m.: There is a 911 call that last 21 seconds, with a student saying, "he shot the door."

12:43 and 12:47 p.m.: 911 caller says "please send police now."

12:46 p.m.: 911 caller can hear police next door.

12:50 p.m.: Shots are heard being fired over the 911 call.

12:50 p.m.: Law enforcement breach door using keys from janitor and kill suspect.

12:51 p.m.: On 911 call, it sounds like officers are moving children out of the room.

Why did the police wait for the keys?

 

[Copernicus]

...
Why did the police wait for the keys?

It's fair to say that everyone is asking that question. I think that a few of reasons may have been that they weren't prepared to break into a locked room containing an active shooter, they weren't being told to enter, they feared being injured or shot, and they feared shooting innocents in an exchange of gunfire in a crowded classroom. They really just didn't know how to deal with that kind of situation, and they needed some kind of strong, decisive leadership to coordinate their activity. They feared that any action would just result in the situation getting more out of control without some kind of clear directive to do something. Only the parents of the children were giving them that directive. Those of us judging them in hindsight and with even less information on what was really happening find it really difficult to imagine why they didn't behave more like first responders in NYC during the 9/11 attacks. Their job was to run towards the screams and gunshots, but they weren't really trained to do that.